Hoping 2

[Accuray]

Hi Adinva, definitely true that we have to count our blessings. My DB coach has trained me to always review the positive before discussing the negative. If you get a minute would LOVE more of your input, had a big night last night.

Accuray

[adinva]

Today: Working Through Anger

I went in to MC today, alone, with a big question. I have now realized that a lot of my part in feeding the dysfunctional cycle we were in was because I was angry, hurt and resentful, and did not know it. I was being very passive aggressive but I would not have said I was angry about anything.

H had an EA about 5 years ago and since he is very nonverbal and he said it wasn't anything, I set a few boundaries, we made plans to try going out on dates together, and I expressed my hurt and anger to him. Then I was still mad so I told myself I'd let it go one year, but if in one year he hadn't left me and things were otherwise fine, I would simply let it go. One year later I did. I just let it go. I didn't think about it anymore, I didn't blame him or act mad, I didn't think of it as an affair anymore, I just closed the door and moved on. But things went downhill from there and here we are with him so miserable he wants a divorce. We have both been very passive aggressive and have been withholding respect and affection, etc etc. I read Dance of Anger and found out that I was mad. I had to really think hard and look back to find anything I might have been angry about, that's how much I thought I was past it.

So my big question for t was, if I failed so abominably at handling anger before, and it got me to this place as a result, and I hear all these people saying "you have to work through your anger", what does that look like? It's not venting, it's not letting go, what is it? I feel so hurt and humiliated and angry at the things my H has said to me since and during the bomb, and I'm livid that he'd think of walking away from his children and me. I am setting that anger aside now because I need to focus on me and possibly saving the marriage, but if I don't know how to "work it through," then we'll be right back here if we do reconcile, or I'll be bitter and dysfunctional if we don't.

She said there are three steps to go through:

First is recognizing it internally. Get to know your pattern of anger, are you not aware of it right away, do you have a long fuse, are trying to be adaptible? That's me. I say, act and think as if I'm not angry or hurt. I put my needs down to adapt. She said get to know your pattern and recognize your feelings and their intensity. She has a short fuse and gets more angry than is called for sometimes, and knows that about herself, so she will sometimes try to stop a situation so she has time to think more and come up with a productive response that fits the intensity she really feels. She recommended I journal my feelings so I get a better awareness of what I feel and the degree to which I feel it.

Second is internally working through the intensity and pain of what you feel. I think working through there means allowing yourself to really feel it. Sometimes I know my best interest is not served in showing or expressing my anger and hurt, like right now with my H, so I'm hiding it. I sometimes don't even realize my rage until it comes out in a strong reaction to something else. So I do need to try to feel it, in a safe environment, and cry or be mad, or journal or whatever. I do that here. I found that venting some of it to friends made them act uncomfortable.

I don't know if this is part of #1 or #2 but she said to write down what you feel angry/hurt about and take responsibility for how you respond. Perhaps you played a role in the events that led up to the situation that makes you mad. For example, in my relationship issues with H, I played a big role by eroding our relationship with unaddressed resentment and passive aggressive behavior, reacting emotionally.

Third is determining the most effective way of communicating what you need to communicate. For me, I thought was really good at expressing feelings right in the moment, but Dance of Anger taught me how unproductive it was. H then knew how I felt, but he resented me and nothing changed. My t used an example that in a phone call with her insurance co she expressed her feelings then and there about the rude representative, but she thought it would have been more productive if she had just ended the call and tried again later. For me, I recently noticed I felt undermined when H yelled from upstairs for S11 to turn off the tv when I had just told him he could watch the end of his show. I expressed that to H calmly and privately, but if I had waited longer I would have realized I didn't feel that strongly about it and with everything else going on would probably have let it slide. Generally he's been better about that kind of thing. In that case maybe the most productive way to communicate would have been a mental note to later have a conversation about how we both avoid duplicating each others' discipline, or wait and see if it's a trend or a one-off. Not every angry feeling needs to be vented.

We discussed a little about the ineffectiveness of revealing your hurt or anger over something you need, asking for the needed thing, and then just getting angry again when you don't get it. T used an example of a wife who needed her H to cook dinner. He did for a while and then stopped and so she cooked it instead and felt angry. Your agreements need to have some "teeth" I think, or consequences, not just "or else...or else...well, or else I'll get real mad!" My T said what needs to happen isn't D or leaving or some big consequence but rather you come back and counternegotiate. You didn't cook like you said you would, what's that about, do you need something in order to be able to do it? (I'm kind of struggling with understanding this part). Here's another example; when H had his EA we resulted in deciding we should go out together once a month. The dates were awkward and weird, not a lot of fun, kind of forced, and they fizzled out when I stopped planning them. T said we should have gone on one date and then had a talk to monitor progress, see how it went, what we could improve next time. Another example - my usual response when my needs weren't met was to yell and cry and lecture, which H hates. He would practically promise to do better just to shut me up. Now I realize that my lecturing was imposing my reality on him - I was not listening to his side or seeking it out, just telling him how it was. I should have asked more questions and tried to understand why he wasn't doing these things I asked for, and considered whether he didn't really want to be married or did. I know I was always afraid of asking that kind of a question. I suspect he wouldn't have given an honest answer because he's so conflict avoidant. But I know how to have better, less threatening conversations now. And I know words don't make things worse, they just help you understand how things are.

T says be in touch with your needs and legimately ask your partner for what you need. And your partner should not pay lip service or let it fizzle out (like our dates) - then it's not a good faith effort.

No one is going to get all their needs met 100% of the time, and needs change from time to time, but partners should make a good faith effort in response to what the other person is asking.

The rest of the session we talked about an incident with my S13 on the cruise, debarkation day, when he got irrationally anxious about being late getting out, and he spoke to me in a sarcastic way with words I swear he was channeling from my H. I had never seen so clearly how S could act just like H. I didn't handle it as well as I wanted at the time, just kept insisting it was fine, and later I told him his sarcastic comment bothered me and he apologized.

I had time to sit in the waiting room before my appointment today so I was working on this myself and realized, (1) if S is anxious about something I should not disregard and belittle his concerns. He has a right to feel them. (2) I should not have attached my baggage to the tone and words he used and should have just asked him to correct his tone to a more respectful one and try again with what he wanted to say. (3) I should accept that it's ok to be a little compulsive and a rule follower and help S13 accept that it's ok for others to be a little more relaxed and free flowing. T said I should revisit this with S later on to notice together ways in which we are different. He has to make choices to handle when he's feeling nervous - we could brainstorm that he could have packed and waited outside for us. He could have called guest relations to ask if we were ok. he could have trusted in me as the adult in charge. She said if he comes up with these ideas he'll learn coping skills, rather than having me suggest them to him. He also should know that he needs to communicate in a way that isn't denigrating when people aren't being as exacting as he is. He's got to learn to allay his own anxiety without coming across as controlling with his peers.

That's it for today, I'm off to GAL, spa weekend to celebrate my sister's 50th! In deference to my H we're staying close to home and using a groupon deal on everything, and actually not just deference to my H but I feel a lot better about the cost than some of the other ideas we were kicking around. So, have a great weekend y'all. I'll check in now and then if I'm just lounging around.

[2thepoint]

Very interesting post, Adinva! I would say that many of the solutions to your R problems are contained within your own written words above. You should print off this post and hi-light those key points and concepts and work to apply them in your daily life.

Best of luck and enjoy your spa weekend!

[Accuray]

A cautionary tale Adinva, thank you for sharing. The other side of this of course is that as the LBS we take on too much responsibility for what has happened. Just as WAS re-writes history to make everything our fault, we can get to the same place because we are the one who is left behind.

I guess the point is that if H were meeting your needs, there would be no reason for you to be passive aggressive and resentful, so it wouldn't really matter how well you could handle it when you got there.

As the LBS it's tempting to beat ourselves up too much. You know a ton of your marriage issues are due to H's problems and you can't own those.

I'm with you on the anger -- DB pretty much requires that you smash that down and put it in the back seat. To me, that's a lot of what "act as if" is all about -- act as if you're not angry, disappointed and frustrated. That HAS to come out. For me, it came out when I felt it was safe because I didn't think W was going to disappear anymore.

I did like your T's advice, seemed very good. Just be sure you don't take too much on your shoulders for what's happened. Sure you did some things wrong, had weaknesses, etc., so does everybody. The point is that you recognize them, you want your family intact, and you're working like heck to make sure it has a happy outcome and that you come out of this a better person. The anger at H may well turn to pity when you realize how much progress you have made while he stays the same.

Accuray

[adinva]

Hey Accuray! Thanks for posting here.

You're right that H did and does have his own issues to sort out. But I was very unaware of what was going on between us and unable to help myself or him. Now I'm more aware, and practicing better skills. If he comes around there will still be things he needs to do but I'll know how to ask for them. If he doesn't come around, I'm already becoming a better mom and learning how my kids can avoid some of our mistakes. And I can take all my new skills to my future life. So I do really appreciate the support and having some buddies on my side, but I also know I'm the only one here that I can work on. I don't think I'm being too hard on myself at all.

Journaling,
Just had a wonderful weekend with my sis! She never married and has had lots of boyfriends and breakups, and has dated divorced guys, so she has been curious to know more about what happened with my H and has had advice to offer. I have to take it with a grain of salt. I find myself frustrated that an unmarried person who should break up with a complete jerk who has made her unhappy for 3 out of the 4 months they've been together feels just as much pain as someone who married till death do us part and has kids and is facing a breakup. You shouldn't grade pain and compare who has a right to more, but it takes willpower to avoid it.

Most of the weekend we just relaxed and did yoga, got massages, went to a movie and chilled. It was fun. It's also fun when people come up and say "you two must be sisters!" which happened about three times over the weekend. I thanked H for taking care of the kids so we could have our weekend.

I had a dilemma on what to do with the $50 my p's gave us for our anniversary. It took me a couple of days to find myself in the kitchen at the same time as H to open their card. Took a few more days to think of what we could spend it on. I asked him last night what he thought about using it for our Christmas tree. Money's tight and we always get a tree so it will help to use this $ for the tree, and it won't seem like a permanent symbol of a pretty phony anniversary. In my opinion, we're still in the same house, we deserve a card and a present! Anyway...

Since we married Thanksgiving weekend, my anniversary gift from him was always a Christmas tree. Lots of our wedding gifts were Christmas ornaments. It's always meant a lot to me to have a beautiful pine tree and colorful ornaments and tinsel. It's bigger than just our anniversary. So he'll help me get it home this year and we'll have a beautiful tree and save money. I think it's a win-win.

H pulled back a bit after my weekend away. I started telling him a story - we went to a Bikram yoga class and unknowingly got there for a special class presented by a visiting senior teacher under Bikram himself. The class was amazing and in the moment and it went two hours over the usual one and a half. H was just going uh huh uh huh I need to pick up my car (very uninterested tone). So I stopped with the stories realizing it wasn't a good time to try to connect, and went back to my glass of wine and SNL on DVR.

Later I got in the car to drive him to pick up his car and from the moment he sat down he was reading his iphone. I personally think that's rude. His social skills around me have gotten abysmal in the last year or so, a reflection of how he feels in the marriage, I think. I wish him luck dating if he doesn't break some of those habits. Anyway, I was being quiet but finally needed to ask him about spending the anniversary $ on a tree, since I didn't know when we'd have a chance to discuss it again, so I said "Are you busy?" and he said "Well I'm reading, what?" so I asked and he said OK and went back to reading. Whatever. It's not going to get a rise out of me.

Later, he noticed I had folded the laundry while watching my SNL and having my glass of wine. That's his job, but it was there and I was available so I just did it. He thanked me for doing it. (Act of service, small victory?)

I also cleaned up the dishes, which is my job but you would think that three days at home the boys and he would have done their own. It's a chance for me to show a 180 by just doing what needs doing, so I did. I did however make the kids do their part, which is emptying the dishwasher and putting those dishes away. They have to do that in order for me to get their dirty dishes out of the sink and wash the pans. Not very glamorous stuff, but it is nice to do something useful and have a clean kitchen.

H is a lot more affectionate with our dog lately. Not so much affectionate kidding, "you're such a dumb dog" stuff, but hugs and kisses. He invites the dog up to the top of the bed (he has a blanket at the foot that he's supposed to stay on) and he cuddles and kisses him before telling him to get back on his blanket. I think he's getting his affection fixes from the dog like I have been. The dog's loving it!

H told me he'll be going overseas again the week before Christmas, getting home Christmas weekend. I was in our room, he was in the bathroom. I said OK but you'll be home FOR Christmas? And he said "yeah, I'm going BEFORE Christmas, not FOR Christmas" - it had been a little hard to hear from the other room. I asked him "Do you like it there? Are you enjoying what you're doing?" and he said "Yeah, well it might become a permanent job and that would be good" (He's a contractor, always worried about losing his job - apparently very worried about that almost all the time.) So I said "yeah, a permanent job would be good." That was all there was. Since we never talk about his feelings, and he seems so threatened by them, I thought asking him somewhat nonthreatening questions like "are you liking your work" might be a baby step toward reestablishing intimacy conversationally.

[Accuray]

Ugh, I feel for you, that is SO HARD. What are you looking to get back to? H seems to really have his guard up, from your posts it seems like talking to him is like balancing on two legs of a chair without falling over.

That is so frustrating. I assume that earlier in your marriage H was affectionate and met your needs?

Everyone on this board really seems to love their WAS and seems fundamentally happy with their match despite being left behind -- despite the fact that WAS treat us so poorly after the bomb.

Part of that undoubtedly is the effect of being rejected -- we want them back BECAUSE they have rejected us. It makes the marriage more important...but that can't be enough. The pain is just too great, there has to be MORE than the rejection effect pulling us back.

What is it for you Adinva, what do you hope to recapture with this man? How did he make you feel good about yourself? What were his more endearing qualities?

--Accuray

[adinva]

I loved being with my H. He seemed so confident, strong and funny. Very athletic, takes great care of himself, never smoked, drank or did drugs. Very smart, ambitious, fun. Good longterm friendships with guys I admired. Strong sense of loyalty and honor. Loves his mom and takes care of her when she needs help. He was silly and could make me laugh when I was getting freaked out about anything. We touched all the time, sitting on the couch our feet would be wrapped up together. Sleeping in my twin bed or in the double we got when we were married, we slept touching. I could sit on his lap, he could dip me dancing. We held hands while he moved the stick shift in his car. We laughed a lot

We were both young and about equal in experiences, except I had traveled more than he had. We had fun traveling together, played golf together. I was low maintenance and fun, so he didn't mind bringing me where he went - family reunions, bachelor party in Vegas. Although we were apart our first two married years because of his job, we had already spent four years together. We saw each other on weekends and had lots of fun at the hotel or apartment his company put him up at in Orlando and Atlanta. He was so handsome. Neither of us had money so we had fun doing things on the cheap, finding bargains, using coupons on a dinner date. Eating ice cream and watching M*A*S*H.

He was kind of stunted emotionally, and so was I. I was embarrassed to be too overtly loving or to receive that. I was not very mature about sex and he wasn't much better, but we had great sex. We just didn't talk about it a lot. Rather than normal terms of endearment he used a silly one that wasn't enamored with but was ok with - I realized it meant I love you. We were kind of immature together and I feel like I grew up and he didn't really.

He doesn't have a romantic bone in his body. Over the years I got more and more frustrated that I couldn't find a way to encourage him in the ways I wanted to be treated. He joked that men who were like what I wanted, romantic, thoughtful, holding hands and talking, are gay.

I'm not a perfectionist - I don't expect 100% of everything to be perfect - we married young and grew together, and both had our flaws. I'm comfortable with him not being perfect if he just listens and tries to be there for me.

I feel as if divorcing him because I don't like some of his habits or features would be very much like getting rid of one of my kids because I didn't like their habits or features. Not possible. I have this life and I want to work within it to make it the best possible. I don't want to ditch it and have a different life. Of course, that's not entirely within my control so all I can do is all I can do, and then I'll accept and thrive in whatever comes next.

What do I hope for the future with my H? I don't want to recapture so much as to learn and grow from here. I want my H to recommit to our family, to show the loyalty and honor that I saw in him before, to again feel pride in providing for and being there for me and our kids. I want to know what NOW makes him feel loved and give him that, and I want to tell him how I would like to be treated and have him do that to show his love for me. I would like to have physical and emotional intimacy again. I would like to feel like "us against the world" again - we once felt we were so good together and so right for each other.

I want to do the things with him that I thought we'd do when we got older. Hang out by a fire on a chilly day, hike and go on adventures, ride bikes, travel. I wanted to love him while his hair got thin and grey, and mine did too. I hoped we could move somewhere less of a daily grind, where we could enjoy nature and not work so hard, maybe when the kids finished college or were in college.

He was never good about telling me what he liked, but I know better now that his reticence and passivity come a lot from his history and personality, and I don't take it as personally. I want to teach him how to love me better, now that I know how to do that. Make sense?

[Accuray]

Perfect sense, although it is so frustrating that having him read that is non-DB. It's very moving.

Accuray

[labug]

It seems we have similarities in our sitchs and our Hs. I will continue to follow your posts for info. Great post on anger.

After years of being emotionally shut down, I have found that I do have a full range of emotions! Who knew?!? But of course, as the old saying goes about healing, The good news is I now feel all my emotions. The bad news is, I now feel all my emotions.

The best thing I've learned about anger is, it's a emotion, there is no moral judgment attached to it, it's neither good nor bad. It's how we react to the anger that is important. I've learned to pause and think and respond rather than react. My anger is usually based in fear, so I would react from that place of fear.

[adinva]

Hi labug, thanks for your comments! I have also been learning or trying to learn not to react to anger. It was a paradigm shift for me. But it's really freeing to know you don't have to be angry or hurt or scared simply because your H is.