Out of the blue last night, XW called at about 10:40. I was getting ready to go to bed when the phone rang. She called to tell me about her weekend plans with S16. Then she started to complain about my FB page. Even though she deleted me as a friend, she apparently still checks out my page. Whatever. She started yelling at me and I told her to stop or I will hang up. She wouldn't, so I hung up. A few minutes later, I got a 5 page text telling me everything that I did wrong in our marriage. I didn't want to get into an argument so I did not respond. A few minutes later, she texted me and asked if I was still awake. I told her I was and then the phone rang. It was her. I let her ramble for a few minutes and then she settled down. We talked about EVERYTHING....her job, mine, her friend that has a brain tumor and more. Some of the highlights of our conversation:
* TOLD ME THAT SHE HAS BEEN TRYING TO FEEL SOMETHING FOR ME FOR THE LAST YEAR BUT CAN'T
* SAYS SHE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT SHE WANTED WHEN SHE MOVED OUT. SHE JUST NEEDED TO GET AWAY FROM ME
* ASKED IF I WAS SEEING ANYONE. I WAS HONEST AND SAID SORT OF BUT NOTHING SERIOUS. SHE DIDN'T PRESS THE ISSUE. * THEN SHE WANTED TO KNOW HER: NAME AGE NATIONALITY
* INSISTED THAT OM IS JUST A FRIEND AND SAYS THAT SHE HAS NOT SLEPT WITH HIM
* ADMITTED TO GOING ON A DATE WITH A MATH PROFESSOR AT HER WORK, BUT IT WAS A ONE TIME DEAL.
* TOLD ME THAT WE CAN'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I WANT ALL OR NOTHING AND SHE CAN'T GIVE ME "THAT" PART OF HER RIGHT NOW.
* SAID THAT I NEVER LISTENED TO HER
* SAID THAT SHE FELT WORTHLESS, WHEN I TOLD HER THAT SHE ISN'T WORTHLESS, SHE SAID SHE KNOWS SHE ISN'T
* TOLD ME THAT IF WE CAN STOP THE FIGHTING, ARGUING AND REHASHING OF EVENTS OF THE LAST YEAR, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GO TO LUNCH SOMETIME
* SAID THAT RIGHT NOW, I HAVE NO RIGHT TO ASK HER FOR ANYHTING INCLUDING LUNCH
* SAID THAT SHE HASN'T SLEPT FOR MONTHS
* IT MAKES HER SAD TO BE DIVORCED
* SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO BE SINGLE
* SHE HATES BEING ALONE
* WANTS S16 FOR ENTIRE THANKSGIVING WEEKEND. I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT HER ON IT.
* CONFUSED ME BY SAYING "YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED" AND LESS THAN A MINUTE LATER SAYS "YOUR NEXT WIFE WILL BE LUCKY AND GET THE BEST OF YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH."
* SAID THAT SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO FEELINGS FOR ME.
* ASKED ME WHAT MY FAMILY THOUGHT OF HER
* WANTED TO KNOW IF I TOLD MY FRIENDS ALL OF THE THINGS THAT SHE HAS DONE
* SAID THAT SHE HAS TO GET A SECOND JOB BECAUSE I AM "MAKING" HER PAY CHILD SUPPORT
* SAID DIVORCE IS MY FAULT BECAUSE I WOULDN'T GIVE HER SPACE THAT SHE NEEDED
* WHEN ASKED WHY SHE COULDN'T QUIT TALKING TO OM, SHE SAID SHE DID FOR AWHILE, BUT COULDN'T ANSWER WHY SHE STARTED TALKING TO HIM AGAIN
* ADMITTED THAT GOING ON THE DATING SITE WAS WRONG
* SAID THAT SHE HOPED I DON'T LOSE THE HOUSE
* SAYS THAT SHE HAS BEEN MISERABLE FOR YEARS
* SAID OM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HER DEPARTURE AND WOULD HAVE LEFT ANYWAYS
* WHEN I ASKED ABOUT THE TWO "WINDOWS OF OPPORTUNITY" I HAD TO MAKE HER STAY AND WHY SHE TOLD ME AFTER THE FACT, SHE SAID THAT I WAS JUST SUPPOSED TO KNOW
* BLAMED ME FOR CANCELLING OUR COUNSELING SESSIONS
* SAID THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT OUR SONS TO HAVE A REPLACEMENT MOTHER
* SAID SHE NEVER FELT NUMBER ONE WITH ME
* TOLD ME THAT SHE USED TO LOVE ME "SO F*CKING MUCH"
* SAID WE WILL NEVER BE A COUPLE AGAIN
* TOLD ME TO NOT TELL HER HOW I FEEL ABOUT HER ANYMORE BECAUSE SHE KNOWS
* ACCUSED ME OF LYING TO HER FOR YEARS
* SAID SHE WAS TIRED OF FEELING UNIMPORTANT TO ME
We had a very long conversation. Even though it started rough, it ended up being nice. I tried to validate as much as I could. It was getting late so she said she was laying down. I told her that if I was there, I could massage her forehead like I used to. She said "Yeah." We talked for a very long time while she laid in bed. When she told me that she had to get up at 5AM, I told her that I would let her go. She acted like she didn't want me to hang up, so I talked some more. I could tell she was getting sleepy.
Finally, my phone started beeping because the battery was going dead. I told her and she said that we should probably go. I said "I love you" and she said "goodbye." I hung up and noticed that the time was 3:55AM! We talked all night.
Needless to say, I got no sleep because I layed there wide awake thinking about our talk.
This morning, I got a text from her stating that she thought about things all night and told me again that she did not want our sons to have a replacement mother. She also said that she would like to ask me some questions about some of the things I said to her. I told her that maybe we can talk when we both have a free moment. She did not respond.
Wow. The funny thing is that the hurtful things she said did not hurt as much as they used to. Also, everytime she would say something to give me hope, she would say somthing to shoot it down. Or....she would say something to shoot me down and then say something to give me hope. Yes, I'm still going in circles.
I would love your comments please.
Tad
Currently: M 56 XW 57 Sons 38,33,31,29
The Sitch: Married 26 years EA w/ OM 9/10 Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary) Sep 12/10 She wants D 1/11 W files 5/11 D final 10/11 XW marries OM 6/13
I suggest you ask her to go to Retrouvaille with you to try to improve the way you get along. Look at the website, www.helpourmarriage.org for info on dates and locations of weekends. It is only two days, and it can help you get along and deal with your problems without a counselor.
Also, look at the description of the 4 Stage of Marriage (the link is on the top of the homepage. See if Stage 3 - Misery doesn't describe the last few years of your marriage. Retrouvaille really works,...if you go.
Everything your W said I heard from my H at one time or another. It is typical MLC. Nothing surprising there.
As they say, the fate of the marriage is in the hands of the LBS.
The MLC'er is confused, that we all know. We cannot expect them to tell us things, to let us know what to do. We also, however, do not know what to do (as you XW said you were supposed to know) but that is why the boards are so helpful...people here have passed this way already. And using that wisdom has saved many M's. In my own sitch, I credit so much of the progress that I am seeing now as because of all my friends here.
Tad, it might not be too late, if you really want her back. Listen with your heart, not with your head. Your W is almost begging you to be there for her, to wait, to be patient, not to replace her. She is not ready thus she pushes you away, but she wants you to be there for her when she is, that is why she is reeling you in.
It all depends on you. She is starting to open up, to face her inner turmoil. Take it easy, let her lead the talk, validate, don't impose or control.
Don't think of the specific words she says - especially those little, petty things. Those are just spew. But think of the over-feeling that you got from it, the over-all message.
But keep up the DBing, the detachment. You said ILY, you suggested that you talk again. How quickly you forget that you are not to pursue. Let her lead. And continue working on yourself, making your changes, making yourself a better person. She will see it, I guarantee.
Take care Tad!
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Classic how even though she initiated separation and divorce it is still all your fault.
I didn't read anything in your post where she owned any of her part in the breakdown of your M. Until she takes responsibility for her part and deals with her issues I don't believe there could be a lasting R.
Can I ask if anything she said about you and your behavior in her spew that stung?
What have you learned about yourself in this journey?
Tad, she's still deep within the tunnel, she has a ways to go.
Keep working on detachment and no expectations. It's the only way to maintain hope if a future R with her is what you decide you'd like to see happen. You know there are no guarantees.
Her statements that she doesn't want your sons to have a replacement mother? Her confusion is so very evident in this. First of all, your sons are older. It's not like they need mothering in the way that younger kids do. They are old enough to make up their own minds what type of relationship they want with her. I believe what she's saying is that she doesn't want you to have a replacement wife. The old "I don't want you, but I don't want anyone else to have you either" saying.
Hang in there Tad. Remember that she still has to face and settle her own issues. You can't fix them for her. Keep working on yourself and moving forward and live your life to the fullest. It's the only way to have a healthy future R with either your XW or someone new.
With all respect to Lotus, I disagree about Retrouville. My "opinion" is that any type of marriage counseling is pointless while the MLCer is still lost and in a fog. They have to be more or less on the path to being whole and healthy themselves before they can even consider worrying about a relationship. So that would be my advice for you. Do not look at this as a way to fix your relationship. Think with love and look at it as a way to be there for her as she works through things for HERSELF. You cannot fix, her, but you can be a lighthouse in her storm. Make THAT your focus and THEN see what happens down the road. As you said, she is still lost and confused and she is clearly at least reaching a point where she may be realizing that a helping hand every so often may help. Be a role model for her on how someone can live a happy independent life. Go back and read my thread and see some of the things that my H said to me that made him rethink things. Good luck Tad.
"Love me when I least deserve it, for that is when I need it the most"
M18 Me39,H42 D16 Bomb 1/10 Moved out 3/10 OW 6/10 H wants to R,OW gone 11/10 H moves back 5/11 H wants to wear rings again 9/11
I don't think this relationship is ready for counseling because she is a total unequivocal mess, and I think this convo is no different than any other one before.
I think she sucked you back in SO badly. You resisted in the very beginning and then she calmed down enough to suck you in to not hang up, and she proceeded to eventually get around to the spewing and insults, and then kept you on the phone by occasionally throwing out things that probably gave you hope, such as the admission that she doesn't like being divorced.
Once you said you wished you could massage her forehead, that was a palm in the face moment for me ;-) Like really?? After all this, you're pursuing again? Cause that's a type of pursuit.
She is leading you by the nose...the whole "well there are more things that I want to talk about..." now that just has you not GALing, but waiting and wondering what they are, and allowing her the opportunity to keep you distracting from caring for yourself and then be her punching bag when she chooses.
If someone were treating me this way, I'd go fully dark on them. FULLY. It's the behavior of a child in a temper tantrum. She needs a counselor. You can't be that guy. Or she needs time enough alone to get her head right. You will never gain any strength if you keep allowing her to derail you.
She is in the initial shock of the divorce, finding out that it didn't change things. So...let her FACE that fact. What's happening is that she is confiding in YOU, almost like she is blaming you that divorce didn't get her what she wanted. You're the last person she should confide in if she made a mistake.
She is a child who needs to grow up, and the sad thing is that she is stopping YOU from growing up in ways you need to by involving you in her drama, and the even sadder thing is that you keep letting her.
M45 Bomb 6/09; EA 6/10; Divorced 1/11 Proud single mom of 7 little feline girls and one little feline boy "Fall down 53 times. Get up 54." -- Zen saying
She is making progress, her behavior is just part of the journey. I agree with some of the other posters, she is in no way ready for any type of marital counseling/program. She is still very irrational and lost. She has a long long way to go. I would be so careful on being sucked back into her drama. Draw good boundaries and maintain them. Take care
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
Tad, Your xw is an absolute mess. She doesn't know what she wants and even though eveyrone has given you good advice, I am 100% w/Trusting. She's right about getting sucked into her drama. Step back and you need to learn how to cut the conversations short. You do not need to be bashed over and over again. Yes, you had apart in the break down of your marriage, but the marriage is over and you are divorced...she needs to realize that she does not have any more claim on you, your life and if you opt to have someone new come into your life. Set your boundaries and keep them.
One more thing, when she's like this...cut your conversations short. Your xw needs to come to the realization that you are moving on. It's okay to keep the door ajar, but you need to move forward and live each day for yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
seeking answers and Albequerque are, imo, spot on.
No way does your w want any MC let alone Retroavaille--which is a weekend workshop/retreat about repairing the marriage. And which requires commitment and NO OPs at all...at all....
She owns NONE of the problems, still blames you AND you still grovelled and begged to massage her forehead "if only you were there"....
you both still re-enter the same old dynamic so fast it's hard for me to see the growth she mentioned but I can see why she'd think you have not changed.
And she has not changed.
So why would you two talk about reconciling?
OH WAIT, YOU TWO ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT IT, YOU ARE...just you...
b/c you had ONE conversation that didn't end in a fight but began with one AND contained lots of negatives yet you claim that it was "also nice"....
I feel like I am watching someone who was 2/3 of t he way to the top of the mountain, just fall backwards all the way to the bottom again.
Am I missing something? Where is the positive in her calling him?
IT's all her confusion and spewing and then backtracking b/c HER life isn't so hot.
ANd the "no mother replacement" means HE CANNOT DATE b/c SHE won't allow it
and Tad agreed....(I'm slapping my forehead.)
SHE LEFT her sons and her home, so there is no mother to replace. THe mother left long ago.
And she's nutty and negative.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
