Wife is angrier after my 180

[2thepoint]

I mentioned in a previous post that my W has adopted a pet name for herself that she uses as a login ID for Skype and that I saw the same pet name as a return address on a package she recently sent to the person with whom I believe she is having an EA with. Well today we received a package at the house (some type of fruit gift) addressed to my W's pet name. ARGH!!!!!!!

[2thepoint]

Tonight we all attended a school function for my oldest son and everyone seemed to have a pleasant enough experience. I noticed my W was wearing her ring again, even though she hadn't been wearing it the past few days, (I'm guessing she was just keeping up appearances). Anyway, while we were waiting for things to get started W mentions that she wanted to get away by herself for a spa weekend in a state famous for their spas. She said that while she was there she would like to visit with good friends of ours. These are friends with whom I'm sure W thinks will drop her from their list of friends if/when we split. As it turns out W's OM friend lives a couple of hours away from this spa location. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was a rendezvous planned. It is interesting though that she would also want to meet with our friends. I'm working hard to keep a cool head and not show any emotion or reaction other than full support of her needs.

Confused and frustrated!

[2thepoint]

Update: Went to attend the wedding of a friend this weekend. Since W's family lives in the area, I took the family with me. We had a nice weekend and the wedding was fun for everyone. I was a little annoyed though when W went to the bathroom during the reception to talk/text her "friend". She had been to the bathroom several times and hadn't taken the phone with her except that one time.

Later that night after everyone is asleep at the in-laws, my youngest comes running into the room in full panic mode because he had had a bad dream. I asked where his mother was since she had been sleeping with the kids in the basement. He said he didn't know. I went downstairs and W comes walking out of the computer room/office. She said she couldn't sleep. It was 3:30 in the friggin morning and she doesn't hear her S panicking looking for her! I discovered later that she had her little netbook with her, the one she uses to Skype/video message. Needless to say, that episode ruined the rest of the weekend for me!

Oh, one last thing; When we were saying our goodbyes to the family, W who is always tearful when she is saying her goodbyes, is sobbing uncontrollably when she is saying goodbye to her mother. To my mind this is because she has not told anyone of her plans for our separation/divorce and she is regretful and ashamed and who knows what else. It is all very strange! All she has to do is say the word and I would gladly work with her to salvage this M of ours. For now, I am on my own. Sigh!

[25yearsmlc]

2t

I asked you before but don't recall the answers...

what are Your 180s and GAL activities?

What's your work on YOU? All I'm hearing is about what she is doing to you

but what I need to hear from you is what you are doing for YOU?

[25yearsmlc]

ps

when I first saw your timeline, I thought you meant September of last year.

It's THIS past September? Like 6-7 weeks ago? Geez 2t, that's nothing.

You have a long road ahead and if you're exhausted already you really have to read the Div Busting book AGAIN....please

and when you said you "supported her needs" when she was getting treated for depression,

what did you mean, Since you "never talked about it"?

I can't help feel she has not been heard much for a long time. And if the topic was uncomfortable for you, she didn't get heard by you at all.

All i'm saying is

if my h were getting treated by a t for depression, I'd be damn sure to know what the main issues were. I'd have attended with him sometimes too. I'm sure of it.

That would be part of my supporting him.

So dig deeper. Be brave.

I think you're letting your anger decide things for you right now.

[2thepoint]

My recent posts have really been more of a venting exercise. I actually think that I have been working through the 5 stages of grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.

Initially I was in denial that my W could ever consider ending our 18 year M and subject our children to the challenges ahead. I moved on to bargaining and depression where I started the 180's to please my wife and found myself crying my eyes out like I've never done before. I think I am in the anger phase at the moment. Angry at the injustice of it all. Angry that my W is behaving like she is. Angry at the complete upsetting of our life, etc. Eventually I will get to acceptance. Acceptance not that the marriage is over but that I have a problem that needs to be dealt with and significant work to do if I ever hope to right the ship.

So bare with me folks, I'll get with the program.

Regarding GAL, right now I have been spending more 1-1 time with the kids and working through a DB coach to develop strategies for making myself a better person. I think that when the time comes to move out, I will simply do it without any consult with W. That would be a complete 180 and would send a clear signal that I am in the process of G'ng AL! Also, since W has already taken a long weekend to herself and is planning another, I may just do the same thing!

More to come. I'll continue to post as the situation develops further.

[2thepoint]

OK folks, I'm having one of those down days and need some advice, please....

I've been working really hard on the 180 stuff and avoiding pursuing, etc. Today my W reminds me that she is taking off next week for a 4 day spa weekend out of state, (I mentioned this in a earlier post). She has been very remote (i.e. keeping to herself, quiet phone conversations with who knows who, only engages if I engage but is usually very pleasant, etc.). I am now at the point where I need to talk to her about our situation. I feel I need some closure on how we got to the point where we are at now. I need to talk to her about future plans, coming holidays, separation, etc. However, I feel like it is pursuing and want to avoid that, but I have to have this discussion! Any suggestions on how best to approach this?

Also, why do I feel like W is doing some of her own DB'ing? She is very mysterious, only engages when I do, seems to be GAL, etc. Is this normal behavior for the WAW or is there such a thing as reverse DB'ing?

[25yearsmlc]

OK folks, I'm having one of those down days and need some advice, please....

I've been working really hard on the 180 stuff and avoiding pursuing, etc.

How so? What are the 180s? This is at least the 3rd time you've been asked...

Today my W reminds me that she is taking off next week for a 4 day spa weekend out of state, (I mentioned this in a earlier post).

Who says you cannot do something like this too?


She has been very remote (i.e. keeping to herself, quiet phone conversations with who knows who, only engages if I engage but is usually very pleasant, etc.). I am now at the point where I need to talk to her about our situation. I feel I need some closure on how we got to the point where we are at now.

Wait now...This means after less than 2 months, you want to issue an ultimatum? B/c that's what your insistence on R talk and "some closure" will be.

Um, Okay fine. It's totally at odds with DBing but hey, so?

And unless and only if you are prepared for the most likely answer which will be, good bye, I would suggest you not do that. What's with the "need for closure?" Really? You think we didn't ALL want guarantees that our hard efforts would pay off?

We did. We didn't get them. No one does. Get a grip.


I need to talk to her about future plans, coming holidays, separation, etc. However, I feel like it is pursuing and want to avoid that, but I have to have this discussion! Any suggestions on how best to approach this?


Don't!! Period. You're way way too impatient.

You have shown her nothing new in you and NOT one real change- so why should HER answer change?

Consistency + sufficient time = change she can believe in.

You've given her nothing to believe in.

Good grief....do you read what we write to you? Please do so again.


Also, why do I feel like W is doing some of her own DB'ing?
[color:#CC0000]
B/c she's detached from you, and is in control of her emotions. You are not.


She is very mysterious, only engages when I do, seems to be GAL, etc. Is this normal behavior for the WAW or is there such a thing as reverse DB'ing?

she's healthier acting.

Why not learn from her?

So far you are doing about the opposite of what most WAW's feel is attractive. But you insist on doing it some more. Your need for reassurance long before she's prepared to give it, can only lead one way. Yet you stubbornly insist on heading that direction.

You ignore our advice at your peril.

[2thepoint]

Geesh "25" I appreciate the input but lighten up a bit, please! You've clearly been doing this for far longer than I; 6300+ posts and 3 years in the wildnerness. I on the other hand was just dealt this crushing blow and am trying my best to deal with it. You make an awful lot of judgments without knowing all of the facts. I could spend all day, every day, detailing my stuff but then I wouldn't be working on the stuff that matters.

You ask about my 180's, yet I've detailed them numerous times throughout this thread, (i.e. W says I wasn't helping enough around the house, so now I do most of the household chores, W says I don't pay enough attention to the kids, so now I spend most of my time with them - sports, school, extracurricular activities - even took them to a hockey game tonight). I also purchased hearing aids since W was annoyed by my hearing impediment. I look for opportunities to provide acts of service to my W such as when she was having a near meltdown at a recent sporting event for my son because she was running out of time and didn't have supplies needed to get the team up and running. I calmly assessed the situation and handled the things for her that were creating the problem. All negative emotion has been removed from my interactions with W. Only positive interactions. These are all 180 and most have been mentioned in previous posts. I get that there is more to do in this area, much more. But, it is a process of discovery that will continue for some time.

When I post about being angry, upset or frustrated about something, it does not mean that I let it show. I post here to vent and to seek guidance.

When I talk about needing to speak to my wife it is because we have not discussed anything lately regarding our living situation, the coming visit of her parents, the disclosure to friends and family and children of our pending separation. We need to talk about these things and how they will be handled and when. I'm not issuing any ultimatums. However I would like to be able to discuss these issues and some of the closure I mentioned would be helpful for me. If not a good idea then I will not bring that up. This is why I post... to get advice, not judgment!

Regarding doing something for myself (i.e. long weekend) I'm actually considering that and that would also be a bit of a 180, especially if i don't provide details.

So there you have it.

[25yearsmlc]

Geesh "25" I appreciate the input but lighten up a bit, please! You've clearly been doing this for far longer than I; 6300+ posts and 3 years in the wildnerness.


Then I shall leave you in the good hands of others.

But so you know, My h's mlc was 6 years ago, not 3. It was 4 years ago we began piecing and 3 that our m was restored. That's Not "3 years in the wilderness"...??

Though I take time off, I do return here to pay it forward as I was greatly helped by the advice I received here.

In fact I give this site about half the credit for restoring my m, and my DB coach the other half.

The early days of being here are days I don't really want to recall, but I do remember them, and the help I got. I treasure it as the life line it was and I treasure the people who took the time to post to me.

Though it was Painful as hell, I took the advice I got.

You've been here 2 months? You often don't take the advice.

The guidance I got here made me learn by digging deep into myself, looking inward where the real journey lies... so that I could stop doing things like asking questions that have no good answers, and Not look outward, at my spouse, to determine MY future.

As for the "Situation" you wanted advice about, you simply said "our situation" and gave no other details. Why wouldn't I assume the "situation" means the R? And you asked for suggestions about how to broach it. Yes I "assumed" you were referring to your R. And come to find out, you were. So what did I miss? What did I "Judge?" That her parents are coming? See comments below.

As for the 180s you describe, I was looking for something substantive, which is why I said you need to dig deeper.

For instance, You told us your w was treated for depression for "years" and or in the "early years" of the m. You also said you "never talked about" why your w was treated for depression but you claimed to be "supportive".

I asked you about that seeming contradiction, and you ignored the question, which I think bugged you.

But to me, that question is huge and symptomatic. A wonderful starting point for you to grow from. And that's the type of bravely looking inward that it takes to succeed here, or at least that's what I think.



I on the other hand was just dealt this crushing blow and am trying my best to deal with it. You make an awful lot of judgments without knowing all of the facts. I could spend all day, every day, detailing my stuff but then I wouldn't be working on the stuff that matters.

See above RE: inferences based on your statements. We can only advise based on what you tell us. If we are missing information that's relevant, that's on you. As for "The situation" you wanted advice on, I gave it to you based on the available info. And I stand by it.

You didn't like the advice I gave you (which is not to force another R talk on her)... so I'm "judgemental"? Really? that's Intriguing to me.

Why must there be a character flaw in me? Why can't you just agree to disagree?

Don't worry, I'm not offended (you don't know me, so how could I be?), but maybe you ought to think about whether that question has value for you.

IOW Is that a pattern anywhere else for you?


You ask about my 180's, yet I've detailed them numerous times throughout this thread, (i.e. W says I wasn't helping enough around the house, so now I do most of the household chores, W says I don't pay enough attention to the kids, so now I spend most of my time with them - sports, school, extracurricular activities - even took them to a hockey game tonight).

As I said before, I was looking for more substantive, emotional 180s, and See note re: what I asked you before, which remains unanswered, but I hope not unexplored.

Also is there a Pattern to these 180 behaviors you are changing? Meaning, she said you didn't help with the chores, you didn't pay attention to the kids and you didn't hear or listen to her? Anything strike you about those = a pattern that reflect something on a deeper level? Why she might feel as she does?

I also purchased hearing aids since W was annoyed by my hearing impediment.

I'm glad you did this^^^. But think about the significance of it going on so long and not bothering you before. Not being able to hear your w even if you wanted to, is itself a telling thing. Don't bother getting angry at me or reacting, just process that for your own sake.

I look for opportunities to provide acts of service

this^^^ sounds really nice. Now see in the next breath how you characterize your w...any judgement there? Didn't sound like venting, but rather, how you see her. Just food for thought.

to my W such as when she was having a near meltdown at a recent sporting event for my son because she was running out of time and didn't have supplies needed to get the team up and running. I calmly assessed the situation and handled the things for her that were creating the problem. All negative emotion has been removed from my interactions with W. Only positive interactions.

Great!! That's a truly amazing feat to ever achieve, let alone in such a short time. But if it's ALL positive, why are you so afraid or anxious? Why aren't you feeling calm and reassured?

Sounds like things are great with you two. Seriously. What's the problem if all is well? B/c she seems happier? Why isn't that good?


These are all 180 and most have been mentioned in previous posts. I get that there is more to do in this area, much more. But, it is a process of discovery that will continue for some time.

When I post about being angry, upset or frustrated about something, it does not mean that I let it show. I post here to vent and to seek guidance.


That's understood. And guidance was the goal.

When I talk about needing to speak to my wife it is because we have not discussed anything lately regarding our living situation, the coming visit of her parents, the disclosure to friends and family and children of our pending separation. We need to talk about these things and how they will be handled and when. I'm not issuing any ultimatums.


First, you've only been at this for weeks, so how long can it have been?

But more importantly, The more people who know, the harder it is for HER to retract. The more who know of her pending choices, the more she must explain them (which tends to cement them).

You want to keep the road home, paved and smooth.

If she's not pushing for disclosure, you should be glad. It's a positive.

My advice remains the same. I know limbo is hard; I did it for 2 years. But being rejected or having rejection confirmed, is harder.

And the more you confirm it, the more solidified it gets and it's just harder to turn it around.


However I would like to be able to discuss these issues and some of the closure I mentioned would be helpful for me. If not a good idea then I will not bring that up. This is why I post... to get advice, not judgment!

I'm sorry you feel judged. I gave advice, which was not to broach the topic for the above reasons.

Don't freak out with my next question, instead use it for yourself/situation and learn...

but do you feel "judged" when your wife, or people in general, ask you questions that make you uncomfortable?

When you feel judged, do you react with them as you did w/me here? B/C you insulted me, and if we were friends, I'd have been offended. But that leads me to wondering if you do that with her.

Do you insult or lash out at her when you feel insecure? Do you feel "attacked" when she asks questions that are disquieting or you feel uncomfortable? Then what do you do?

If we ask probing questions that penetrate and we hit the mark, OR make you uncomfortable OR if you repeatedly avoid a question

we find here that's often a good starting point for examination and growth.

I read your whole thread. You sounded desparate and I know that feeling.
I also know that won't help you w/your w.

You did what I and most of us did; repeat yourself. That's not a judgement, it's an observation. So it Seemed the only way to get through to you was a direct approach.

It's not a problem for me to not post to you, but if you want feedback that gets you thinking and growing, do what it takes to let it in so people can give it to you.

How can your w ever tell you difficult things?

Look, as DBers we don't really know the way to "get your spouse back". We don't know what TO DO about that.

We know what TO DO for YOU....(ways to GAL and detach, dig deep to learn, improve, move on and be mysterious and attractive, etc.)

And we know what pushes the WAS away....b/c that's where so many of us have made the same mistakes and seen the same negative results.
And It's in the mistakes that LBSers make where we see so much in common.

Sure The MLCers may have their scripts, but we have ours too.
So we vets come here to help you avoid stepping in the piles we stepped in.

So we go from there.


Regarding doing something for myself (i.e. long weekend) I'm actually considering that and that would also be a bit of a 180, especially if i don't provide details.

So there you have it.

Sounds like a plan. I wish you luck.