first, what are you doing to work on you, since you are all you are in charge of?
second, if you are so sure she's riddled with guilt and that she regrets her choice, why doesn't she say she changed her mind or wants to give it another go?
Is it really just stubborn pride that keeps her on track for leaving,
or
Does she think you are making it so much about her being "wrong", that it would be impossible
for someone with a shred of self respect, to come crawling home?
I'm just asking but yes, i do get pick up a lot of judgement in your tone here. I know you are angry, but own that. It's okay to be angry.
Don't feign concern if it's just anger. Though showing her the anger is a bad idea, it's understandable if you feel it. Just vent here, and not on her.
Denying the anger doesn't teach you how to cope with it.
Did you ask her best friend about her "keeping things inside" b/c you were simply probing for more info? Like what?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
first, what are you doing to work on you, since you are all you are in charge of?
I am now more open about my feelings. I openly accept alternative viewpoints as valid. I used to be very black and white. I have started sharing details of my experiences of my parents D. Never really talked about it. I have started talking more freely with her and not requiring her to ask several questions to get the “whole story”. I am speaking confidently again. I am volunteering at a local charity. I am spending time with family that I sort of alienated in the past. I am sharing thoughts of those experiences with her. I am making great eye contact. I am talking calmly almost all of the time. I am listening to her and others. I am telling my kids I love them much more. I am being much more patient with them. I am hugging them much more. I am playing with them more. I am spending a lot more quality time with them. I am much more confident about myself. I am shaving every day. I am wearing better clothes around the house and in public. I am working out a lot. I am keeping my appearance up in general. I am starting conversations about other people’s experiences/issue and showing true compassion for their situations. I joined the YMCA which she wanted to do for over a year. I am having phone conversations out in the open….used to leave the room. I am more positive and upbeat in general. I am consciously trying to avoid negative statements. I am listening to music more. I am watching much less TV. I am paying her compliments about her appearance (not too frequently). I am occasionally telling her I admire her strength for how she is dealing with this sitch while working so many hours at her stressful job. I am complimenting the improvements she is making in her running. I am asking frequent questions about the people in her life that are dealing with physical ailments. I am acting “As If” as much as possible. I am going out with friends as much as possible There are more……..
second, if you are so sure she's riddled with guilt and that she regrets her choice, why doesn't she say she changed her mind or wants to give it another go?
Is it really just stubborn pride that keeps her on track for leaving,
**I think she is being stubborn to try to prove her strength and independence.
or
Does she think you are making it so much about her being "wrong", that it would be impossible for someone with a shred of self respect, to come crawling home?
**I don't dwell on her being wrong. At least I don't think I do. I am not shy about telling her that I don't agree with her decision. Maybe I should be. I know she knows I don't want the D. I am not going to tell her again. I do think that she has taken such a hard stance on this and so many people know about it that it would be difficult for her to pull back. I think she thinks she would look weak. I think this is a big issue.
I'm just asking but yes, i do get pick up a lot of judgement in your tone here. I know you are angry, but own that. It's okay to be angry.
** I do think I'm judging. I don't think the punishment matches the crime. She is not herself. She told me tonight that she is "being forced to be someone she is not right now". My response was "why is that" and she asked me to stop and I did. What will she feel when she returns to herself? She is going to hate herself. She is going to hate what she has done. I absolutely and unequivically believe that. She is hurting a lot of people including our sons.
Don't feign concern if it's just anger. Though showing her the anger is a bad idea, it's understandable if you feel it. Just vent here, and not on her.
**I appreciate this. I try to control may anger as much as possible. I slipped a little tonight. I need to be strong enough to take some time when my anger starts to mount. Nothing good comes from the alternative. It only validates her jaded views.
Denying the anger doesn't teach you how to cope with it.
Did you ask her best friend about her "keeping things inside" b/c you were simply probing for more info? Like what?
I can honestly say that my only concerns were for my wife. She is an emotional mess. I am concerned about her. She is not equipped to deal with what she is experiencing. I just wanted to make sure she was venting to someone.
This has not been a good night. I rcvd a note from my atty about the procedural thing from earlier in the week. My W decided to get her atty involved. It prob cost us about $750 that didn’t need to be spent. My W told me I can’t control her and that she decided to get follow her atty’s advice because she "trusts" her. This is going to get expensive.
I, like everyone, despise attorneys (no offense, some of my best friends fit the label). I hate the thought of paying them for nonsense. I fear my W may be getting sucked in to dependency on her atty. I approached her and shouldn’t have. I need to learn to take time to cool down. I didn’t raise my voice but did say things I regret. I almost immediately sent her a text apologizing for regressing into my old “tone” when I was talking to her. I told her I am trying to kill that part of me but sometimes regress. It is not who I am or who I want to be. No meaningful response from her.
I was supposed to go out tonight and did for awhile. I really didn’t have anywhere to go. I came home and entered my room through the back door and had zero intention of letting her know I was here. I want to give her space. She opened the door and saw me sitting in bed and it scared the bejesus out of her. She was irritated.
We are going to sit down and talk about the D next week. Division of assets, living arrangements, custody, etc. I hate to think about it but know it is a big issue for her. I have been fighting letting her have the kids overnight away from home but now realize that riding this D out in the same house is a pipe dream. My kids are going to feel pain and all I can do is minimize it as much as possible.
I have been holding onto hope that my W would have an epiphany but now know it’s not going to happen.
She told me tonight that she hopes we can one day be friends but right now she is being forced to be someone she is not. I asked her "why is that" and she asked me to stop. I did. My God. How can you go through something like this realizing you are not being yourself? What happens when your “self” returns? Further strengthens my belief that she will one day feel unbelievable remorse for what is happening.
My poor boys. They are going to see their mother move out of our home. They are going to be subjected to over a decade of shuffling between homes and dealing with new love interests and spouses to their parents. Why? Because their Mother can’t accept the changes their Father is making are genuine in this moment. She is “someone else” and can’t trust it. What a frickin tragedy.
you are a bit all over the place.That means you are not behaving with consistency which is key to her trusting your changes. Not you talking about them but by being the changes.
You'll say you feel empapthy for her one minute and you're angry the next.
You also forgot how you got here. Of course your w doesn't trust the changes b/c you only made them after she said she wanted a divorce.
she was lonely for a long time inside this marriage. Her needs went unmet for a long time and now you want to put all this on her and how wrong she is...
Most of your changes are vague character claims like "being more patient" but in truth when it gets tough (here) you lack that trait.
Whereas Volunteering at the hospital is a good specific GAL.
Since I'm a L I have to say I'd suggest your w see one to get clarity and you are not the neutral party she needs info from. Nor do I think she's "dependent" on her L but you also said you hoped she was talking to someone. Well which is it, you want her to talk to someone or you want to control who that is?
The L won't be your worst enemy b/c she'll tell your w what to expect financially and if it's as grim a picture as you paint I'm sure she is torn.
But that is not necessarily guilt.
Back off, be kind.
Work on your real issues which are the piece of this puzzle you own.
Stop all this obessing about her under the guise of concern.
Even if it's real it isn't in your control.
and it reeks of control...again, back off big time. Be there for your sons. Do YOUR work and only yours.
Let some good memories resurface in her and create some for your boys. Don't argue with her anymore...it's just forcing her to defend those choices over and over and you are cornering her.
Plus you didn't answer my earlier question which is telling.
How hard are you making this for her?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I am rereading a lot of my old posts. i think I am getting more emotional now because I am starting to realize that its really over. What lies ahead........I look forward to it.
see, this post ^^^ to me is contradictory...remember
consistent change + sufficient time = change she can trust
you are hurting but you have to stay the course...you can do this.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
My instincts tell me to make it hard. Not to get too deep into the Mommy Issues, but my mother was the queen of the guilt trip. I remember the ploys during the divorce and even when I was taking a job thousands of miles away from home after college.
WOW...just had an awakening. I'm pursuing the same strategies.
I try to guilt my wife into reevaluating things. i know my Mom always came out on the losing end of her guilt strategy.
you are a bit all over the place.That means you are not behaving with consistency which is key to her trusting your changes. Not you talking about them but by being the changes.
**My emotions still have an affect on me and it affects my actions. not good. I feel I have lost a golden opportunity to change and allow my W to see those changes. She is going to move out and therfore will not be able to see them. I know there are other ways, but not as good as day to day interactions. Maybe it will help. Maybe space will help her heal. I know I control myself only but if I change and she doesnt see it because she isn't here, how will she come back? My hope is fading. I need to be the best I can be regardless.
You'll say you feel empapthy for her one minute and you're angry the next.
**I empathize with her pain. I also feel she is making a poor decision and that decision is going to cause immense pain, financial hardship and problems for all of us. That does make me angry and frustrated.
You also forgot how you got here. Of course your w doesn't trust the changes b/c you only made them after she said she wanted a divorce.
she was lonely for a long time inside this marriage. Her needs went unmet for a long time and now you want to put all this on her and how wrong she is...
**I have tried to articulate to her that I know my inability to express my love for her had driven her to where she is. Again, I don't feel her decision to D and not even consider alternatives are good for anyone including her. I do need to reduce her guilt. I guess I don't know how to do that on this issue. it is her decision.
Most of your changes are vague character claims like "being more patient" but in truth when it gets tough (here) you lack that trait.
**Absolutely. I need to walk the walk more. Talk is cheap.
Whereas Volunteering at the hospital is a good specific GAL.
Since I'm a L I have to say I'd suggest your w see one to get clarity and you are not the neutral party she needs info from. Nor do I think she's "dependent" on her L but you also said you hoped she was talking to someone. Well which is it, you want her to talk to someone or you want to control who that is?
**Just want to make sure she was confiding in someone to help her cope. Preferably someone not charging $300/hr.
The L won't be your worst enemy b/c she'll tell your w what to expect financially and if it's as grim a picture as you paint I'm sure she is torn.
But that is not necessarily guilt.
Back off, be kind.
**I will try. We did make the commitment to not speak of the D in the house anymore. Trying to keep it away from the kids as much as possible. I think this will help alleviate the tension. We were getting along pretty well before the details of the d started creeping into conversations more frequently.
Work on your real issues which are the piece of this puzzle you own.
Stop all this obessing about her under the guise of concern.
Even if it's real it isn't in your control.
**Very true.
and it reeks of control...again, back off big time. Be there for your sons. Do YOUR work and only yours.
Let some good memories resurface in her and create some for your boys. Don't argue with her anymore...it's just forcing her to defend those choices over and over and you are cornering her.
Plus you didn't answer my earlier question which is telling.
I have been too focused on hoping the negatives of this situation will get her to reconsider her decision as they start to become apparent to her.
My not doing everything I possibly can to improve myself make it more unlikely she will come back. It is so easy to say but difficult to do....I NEED to control the controllables.
Just to shed a little perspective on who my wife was and who I know she truly is.....
I am watching "Say Anything". She was very similar to Dianne Corde (sp?), the lead character. Salt of the earth, genuinely nice to the core.
If you are familiar with the movie and character, can you picture her so filled with hate and anger? She is so full of pain.
No real point here...just trying to give you all some perspective on how out of character my W is at the moment.
She has the kids today. She is taking them to my Mother's place...that will be interesting. I am going to have a lot of "me" time. Going to try to make the most of it. A good workout and a lot of football!!!! Probably going camping with my Brother later.
W just came into my room as I'm typing this. She is very emotional. Asked me to help brainstorm about ideas to find resolutions to our seperation. I told her I would do that.
