M “yeah I just saw that lol 90yrs old with a fb he doesn’t have a pic up yet”
W “nah he will prob put up some random pic from the internet”
M “yeah some palace in Egypt or something like that”
W “did I tell you about the other job. It’s mine if I want it”
M “oh yeah congratz”
W “yeah one crap job for another 30yrs old working a dead end job”
M “well you’ll figure it out”
W “the good thing about the new job if I take it is that I will work nights which will free me up during the day to find a real company to work for”
M “this is true”
W “there are no options though, not where I live”
M “there are always options”
W “like what?”
M “there are options there is never just one rd to take”
W “like what us getting back together?”
M “I guess that could always be an option if it is something you would want”
W “how is that H”
M “I still love you W”
W “I never said I did not love you H”
M “I am happy to hear it. Our M is fragile but I would be lying if I did not say I did not want to save it. I do. Nothing I have gone through has been for us or for our M. In the beginning yes. Everything I did to change was in wishing you would come back. I realized along the way that I was fooling myself if I thought I could change anything for our benefit. I had to change it for my benefit if not I was not really changing anything. The distance has actually allowed me to love you more than I ever did because I have taking my time to work on me and to learn about you. My feelings have not changed they have become clearer. I realize that I will be ok either way. I don’t love you until you come back. I love you regardless of whether you do or not. Regardless of the choices you make. Do I think we can work on our M? Sure. Do I think it is possible? Yep. But that is just how I feel. We did the best we could with what we had, now we have different tools”
W “I see it differently though. I don’t miss you the way you miss me. What gets me down is that now you listen to me but you never did before.. It was hard for me to share my feelings to begin with but you made it harder. Now I am extremely guarded especially with you but with my friends with my family even with my mother. Now I have to protect myself and my feelings. You think I go about life not thinking and that I am happy. I am not. I am a care taker I like to take care of people I like to feel needed. But what I really want is for someone to take care of me. I made the assumption that you were going to take care of me the way I wanted you to take care of me. You can call it gullible, naïve, or being stupid. I know you think we can work things out but there is no way that would work. I will never walk in those shoes again”
M “I would never ask you too. I have accepted that our M is dead as it should be. I realize we did the best we could with what we knew. Along the way I made many many mistakes I realize that. I have learned many lessons; I have you to thank for that”
W “good your welcome. I was not a priority in your life. You mother was, you allowed her to do whatever and say whatever she wanted. I allowed her to push me out of my own house. I was naïve. I have learned many lessons also although you prob won’t like the lessons I have learned. I will NEVER walk in those shoes again. To repeat the same scenario? What would be different? You are still you and I am still me. We are the same people.”
M “oh but we are not. I don’t think you are the same woman at all. I can tell when you talk to me. You have grown ”
W “maybe not. Maybe we are different. That Is not a bad thing either. I will never play second fiddle to anyone again not for you not for anyone. There is not another woman in the world that would walk in those shoes. I knew someday you would see it. I knew you would come to that realization. I am glad you did. As for me? I am not repeating the same mistake again. I have discovered that at the end of the day the only person that will take care of me is me, I don’t need you to take care of me I don’t need for you to make me happy. I have gone on my own and you know what? I can do it. Now I am pi$$ed, I don’t mean to be but I get angry. I was not a good M according to you I was not a good W according to you. I knew that if we had kids it would have been an even bigger fight because your mom was not going to do with our kids what she was doing with D. It was just another fight waiting to happen. I would of just left later. I would of left with our kids. You mom would of just put in your head that I was treating one kid different than the other or I was doing this or doing that. I would of not been true but you would not have seen it. I wasn’t this evil wicked person when you weren’t around even though that is the story you heard. Instead of taking my side you took everyone’s side but mine. You want me to repeat that? No way. I don’t want to hurt the R with your mother or for you to hate her that is how I feel about it. You always say you like the brutal honest truth. Well there you have it”
M “ you won’t hurt the R with my mother W, As you know she is moved out and anything she did she did because I allowed it. In the end the fault lies with me. Just for the record I want you to know that I always thought you were a great mother and a fantastic W it was my short comings as a H that allowed this thing to get to this point. What I should of done is gone with my instinct the first time you mentioned my mom moving and in and said no. I should of stuck to my guns. I should of followed my gut the 3 times I wanted her out and I was convinced not to. I should of done a lot but I didn’t. Obviously I did not think we would end up here. I should of not worried about what anyone else was thinking and just done it”
W “yeah we can should have our life away. Had that 3rd party not been there maybe we could of worked on our M maybe we could have made it. That is in the past, I don’t get out of this without fault but that is what we do learn from our mistakes. We don’t go back and repeat them. Nah, I could never go back too much hurt and I am way too guarded to make anything work. I can’t walk in those shoes again”
M “I would never ask you to do that again”
W “Good because the answer would be NO”
Couple seconds of silence after that.
W “well I am sorry the conversation turned so dreary”
M “No that’s alright. I don’t think it was dreary, honesty is best I think. You know I like honesty regardless of it comes out”
W “I think I am going to get something to eat.”
M “me too. I am getting kind of hungry”
W “well if I don’t talk to you this weekend I will call you sometimes next week”
M “Have a good weekend”
I did not intent for the convo to go this way. I guess I should have expected it. This convo was actually yesterday but I was pretty shook after it and did not feel like posting. At some point we all have to face our reality, I am slowly facing mine. It does not take away from all the great advice and support I have received in this wonderful place and I don’t discount the DB tactics in the lease. I am at a cross roads as to what I want to do. I am not sure at this point……………………………………………………….
I'm sorry 2Step. Take some time to let your emotions settle and don't do anything rash. I had a very similar conversation with my W on January 2nd. 2 months later things are looking up for my M. Things can change man. They can.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I am at a cross roads as to what I want to do. I am not sure at this point………………………………………………………
Honestly, I think the first thing you need to do is somehow avoid these type of conversations. I actually think it is a positive that your W is willing to voice her concerns the way she does, but I would try to make sure she is doing that on her own, or with someone else, not with you right now. I actually think everything you said was great, but I am hearing it from an LBS, not the WAS. I can see her just hearing it all as "I changed! I changed!" That is not going to work.
I know it is hard being so far apart to feel like you can "show her," but that is still exactly what you need to do, and you know that.
"I am a care taker I like to take care of people I like to feel needed. But what I really want is for someone to take care of me."
God, I know this is the exact thing with my W as well. She is an RN, a completely giving person. I took advantage of that, everything was her giving and me taking. Anyways, I can relate I guess.
It is funny how it is easier to give advice than to take it, or at least act on it. But we all know what we should be doing, the trick is just doing it.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
I don’t miss you the way you miss me. What gets me down is that now you listen to me but you never did before..
2step
She is angry right now. In her own words.
She doesn't believe yours.
Words are not going to do it here man.
So stop trying to convince her.
And
You haven't given her a reason to miss you.
You have jumped at every little crumb of contact with her.
Painting a rosey picture with words.
You can give up if you want.
IMO you deliver your creed to her.
I love these words;
They are not mine they come from Bworl:
I believe there is a time for such conversations.
It is typically NOT when we want it to be.
When our spouse walks away, we enter a form of desperation. We will do anything to initiate contact, open communication, be in the same place, etc.
She needs space. She wants space. When you try to engage her in a discussion, particularly one so meaningful as one of admitting wrong and asking for forgiveness, you appear to be pushing your agenda on her. No matter how well meaning - and let's be honest, at least part of the motivation for this is to appeal for leniency and clemency in the hope that she will reconsider her current path - the impression we send is that OUR needs and desires are more important than hers.
The hardest thing to finally accept and grasp in the heat of this crisis is that there is ultimately only one thing that YOU can control.
You.
Nothing you say is going to win for you what you most want to win.
Actions still speak more loudly than words. Consistency, even in her separateness, is still an attractive and valued commodity for her.
You are to become the rock.
You have to care for yourself. You have to find yourself. You have to restore yourself. You have to be who you are and nothing else. You have to become a man of integrity and honor who desperately wants this woman in your life, but who will bear the burden of living without her to establish these things above.
Respect her by respecting yourself.
Take the focus OFF of her and the marriage, then put it squarely on the only thing you can effectively change.
You
Good words.
You are not getting what you want and you are not hearing what you want.
Time to move on?
That is what she expects after delivering that message.
She expects you will. That is the man she knew.
Who is 2step now?
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
2step, i have been following your thread and also listening to your advice on other threads.
My 2 cents. You are at a crossroads that NOBODY can determine which way to go. Nobody on this site, you or even your wife. And thats what [censored] so bad. There is no script or crystal balls. Its all about what YOU can endure and what YOU want to interpret from the conversation.
I think TG is correct in that she is angry right now and the WAW will say ANYTHING and EVERYTHING when they are angry. Hell my W said that she hasnt loved me in 11 years once and then the next day resinded that comment. Who know what she is really thinking.
No doubt she is PI$$ed at you right now, and that is surely clouding somethings. Listen to Sandi, she is very good and was a WAW herself. I always read her responses as she pulls no punches.
My heart goes out to you man. You cant understand why they wont believe you when you say things will be different but my Counciler told me that when they are done, they are done. And it may not change. But then again it may, she may be done for now but keep making those changes for yourself and IF she does see them as perminant and real. Than she MAY come back but even if she doesnt, you have improved. You are in the present and not wallowing in the past.
Hang in there 2step. Better days ahead one way or another.
9 BITS
BITS M-46 W-42 M-16y T-19 y s10 s15 BombDec.19/09 Sep-F16/10 Sep Papers signed by W- June 30/10 Recon July 5/10 PA foundOut- Oct 30/10 Mental HospNov/10 moved out Nov/10 Leg Sep Mar 15/11
As a wife who got taken for granted...I read what she says as a good thing, in some ways. She knows what she wants, she's telling you what she wants, and she is saying why she thinks you/her won't have it together. You just keep on being the best you that you can be - maybe she'll be convinced, maybe not...you'll be better off regardless. You won't convince her overnight.
Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible. --Stanislaw Lem
