Doubt anyone will actually go through and read all that but I have included it anyway. If you do find time to read all that there is some GREAT advice from people on my threads.
Quick recap:
W left in Oct back to OK where she is from. I live in Jersey with my 11yr old D from a previous M. We talk on a regular basis sometimes good sometimes not.
Let me set this update up. W and I were looking to buy a house where we live a little before she left. She had signed up for some real estate emails and she still gets them. Average prices in my area are about 450K and up. I wanted to wait to this year to clear up some debt before making any purchases but she loved to cruise the sites and look at houses.
Today I get an email from her.
W "Isn't this just freaking wonderful. Nice houses in leonia that we actually could have afforded thought I would share the misery... Lol Have a good day!"
I did not respond. A few minutes later I get a text from her
W "ck ur email"
M "ok"
W "hehe"
M "Wait do I want to?"
W "yes"
W "Well maybe....But u gotta now i have sparked ur interest"
M "yeah now I am gonna check. driving so it will be a few minutes"
W "ok be careful driving"
Checked the house and responded to the text about 2 hrs later
M "great house"
W "Thought I would get more of a response than that....lol"
M "What would you like me to say??? Want to buy it?? LOL"
Nothing for a few minutes just this very moment i get this
W "There was a day when I wanted that soo bad....The timing is just way off......Kind of like the story of my life"
W "Thought I would get more of a response than that....lol"
M "What would you like me to say??? Want to buy it?? LOL"
Nothing for a few minutes just this very moment i get this
W "There was a day when I wanted that soo bad....The timing is just way off......Kind of like the story of my life"
I have not responded to it yet.
Man... your W takes your temperature more often than a weatherman...
She is just baiting you 2Step.
I think that it is good stuff... but not sure that you should get into a whole convo about this. I would just say that you agree that the timing is off and that, 'maybe someday' or something like that.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Yeah I was caught off guard by that comment. I did respond but the amount of 2x4 I am going to get is going to leave me lumped up pretty good.
So I responded to my W. Michelle, Cat, Mach, Gritter, BITS, and all the guest commentators bring your bats out.
My response was
M "I am still here. I am still willing"
Truthfully I think she might have been looking to hear that I had not given up. MAYBE I am wrong. Usually I AM WRONG. If I know W and I believe i do she did not mind getting that text.
It certainly beats what I wanted to say so I kept it short and left the door open.
Nothing surprising happened after the text. Actually Nothing happened after my text.
As I am pulling the splinters out from my last thread I prepare for a secondary assault.
She probably was wanting to hear you had not given up.
But was it because she wants to know you are still there waiting for her because it gives her options and an ego boost? Or because she's interesting in R?
I think consciously she's still more in the first option.
So why give her what she wants?
Is it what either of you need?
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
Truthfully I think she might have been looking to hear that I had not given up. MAYBE I am wrong. Usually I AM WRONG. If I know W and I believe i do she did not mind getting that text.
Hey, can I get the winning lottery numbers for tonite ?
Stop mind reading...
Knowing her as "well" as you perceive, got you here...
I hate to say 'I told you so', but I told you so...
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Doubt anyone will actually go through and read all that but I have included it anyway. If you do find time to read all that there is some GREAT advice from people on my threads.
Yes, there is, I agree. I suggest you start following some of it.
You write really well, 2step, but you've really not even captured the most basic tenets of DBing yet ("no pursuit", "no relationship talks," etc.). Your wife is playing you like a fiddle.
But was it because she wants to know you are still there waiting for her because it gives her options and an ego boost? Or because she's interesting in R?
Michelle logic would say it is option one.
Quote:
So why give her what she wants?
Is it what either of you need?
No ofcourse not. My text at the moment felt right. I slide a lot more than I would like to at times but overall I don't think I slip as often as some would suspect.
Quote:
2 if you were expecting 2x4's why did you send it?
Well, see how your wife responds to that and go from there.
J3B: I took a risk. It was thought out. Sometimes you have to test and evaluate. No?
Quote:
You are getting some really good advice boogie, but...you have to listen and more importantly act on it, use it.
fisherman: If it was not for the advice I have gotten on here I would be in bed still trying to gather the strengh to get out of bed. My support system here has been huge.
Quote:
Do better, and listen to these folks, most of us learned the hard way.
You're gonna make some mistakes, that's the way this goes. The "I know but.... mistakes" are the ones that hurt. They're completely avoidable.
If you know better, than do better.
Fisherman: I will stumble along the way, knowing what to do and still doing it is a motherf&^%$. It's like a dog returning to vomit.
Quote:
They like to know you're still there waiting for them.
Don't get sucked in.
Think now why you responded.
Gritter: I responded to let her know not to give up. I will explain my reason below.
Quote:
Hey, can I get the winning lottery numbers for tonite ?
Mach: 33 23 02 12 18 22
Quote:
Stop mind reading...
At what point does it become mind reading and you just simply knowing your spouse? That is the question I ask.
Quote:
I hate to say 'I told you so', but I told you so...
Denver: Not so fast.............
Quote:
A ton of it, I have already said to you previous to this...
You are gonna drive this truck right into the tree if you don't start to use the brakes...
Cat: Why do I get the sneaky suspicion I really frustrate you the most.
Ok here it is guys I realize this could have been a very bad move on my part. I am not going to argue that. I expected some of you would shake your head in dissbelief that at this stage in the game I have made such a foolish backslide.
I want you all to know that I am in no way being combative or dissagreeing with you. Truthfuly if it wasn't for your help I might have been in a very bad place right now. The strengh and guidance you have shown me I will NEVER be able to repay.
My W is in a peculiar place, I know this not because I am Nostradamus or some physic mind reader but because we have been together 10yrs and you get to know a person. I realize she shocked the he!! out of me by leaving, if I was paying attention I would not have been so shocked.
In most cases I agree that the WAS will test the waters and do temp checks all the time. They will determine whether the spouse is still around and then quickly move on. I have talked about this in great lengh with my DB couch.
This is why going dark on my W might not be the best approach. In the M she felt neglected and over shadowed by me. She retreated in arguments instead of attacking. She kept it in. She smiled to avoid any conflict. She did for others and always put herself last. Why do I say this? Because I am convinced that if my W feels as if I have completely moved on she WILL give up.
I am not saying I have the answers or that everything I am doing is right. You guys more often than not keep me in check would my text had been perceived differently in Dec? He!! Yes. She is past the anger almost completely, I can tell that by her voice when we do talk. Should I contact her everyday? NO. When I do talk to her she needs to realize that she does have options. That I would consider trying again. She has to feel that level of comfort or she will completely withdraw and throw in the towel.
I think of say Denvers W who made the comment that if he loved her he would of tried harder to win her back. I am not comparing her to my W, like I said everyone is different, but what might seem like persuit in one sitch would be reinforcement in another. I have to VALIDATE A LOT with my W. If I turn a cold shoulder I would be doing nothing different than what I did before.
I don't think I backslid as bad. She responded with a text about an hour ago
W "it is raining awful here and I am stuck doing field work"
nothing much and nothing impressive but after the text i sent her she did not have to do anything. She could of said "i still got him on the hook" and moved on.
personally I think she needed to hear I was still here I was still willing to be married.
DB is about yourself, it is about looking in the mirror and finding what you have done wrong and working on those things. It is about being a better person. Not because you want to save your M but because you want to save yourself. In the process you hope to stay M or to keep your spouse, but after you have grown as a person you realize that either way you will be fine. If you get to that point then M or not you have DBed your sanity.
It also requires a certain level of trust in your instinct. You must test and evaluate. Every sitch is a little differently.
I hope I am not coming across as some hard headed person who thinks he knows more than anyone, that is not my intention at all. The truth is the more you guys talk the more I realize I don't know anything. This is just how I feel and my simple explanation as to why I sent that text.
In most cases I agree that the WAS will test the waters and do temp checks all the time. They will determine whether the spouse is still around and then quickly move on. I have talked about this in great lengh with my DB couch.
This is why going dark on my W might not be the best approach. In the M she felt neglected and over shadowed by me. She retreated in arguments instead of attacking. She kept it in. She smiled to avoid any conflict. She did for others and always put herself last. Why do I say this? Because I am convinced that if my W feels as if I have completely moved on she WILL give up.
I am not saying I have the answers or that everything I am doing is right. You guys more often than not keep me in check would my text had been perceived differently in Dec? He!! Yes. She is past the anger almost completely, I can tell that by her voice when we do talk. Should I contact her everyday? NO. When I do talk to her she needs to realize that she does have options. That I would consider trying again. She has to feel that level of comfort or she will completely withdraw and throw in the towel.
And what was Jody's advice?
No one suggested you should go completely dark. Just that you let her be the one to initiate contact, to initiate R talks, etc. Let her set the pace.
You can convey that you are listening and still there more subtley. You don't have to go all out sappy pursuit like that on her.
You could have agreed with her text or the emotion behind it - "yeah, [censored] how that happens so much." Or "they say everything happens for a reason, but it sure doesn't feel that way most of the time." Or something about God's plan if she's more religious.
But I am very glad she contacted you and doesn't seem to be pulling back right now.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
Jody adviced me to be available to W to listen to her to validate her feelings and boost her self esteem because it had been tranpled. She adviced me to contact her on occassion and ask her opinion on certain matters, when she gave it appreciate it and move on.
Honestly i don't do a lot of the contacting. When I feel stuck or too much time has gone by I will reach out. At some point I will stop that I think completely. i would say that the contact is prob around 80-20 her.
As far as the text maybe a different choice of words could have gone further, I was not meaning to sound sappy I was meaning to sound confident and strong in my conviction. I am letting her now that I am STANDING for us still.
You are in northern Cali? I owe you a bottle of wine for all your help.
You and Cat are right. My old M is dead I know that now and I can accept that. Truthfully she deserves a better version of me but I also deserve a better version of her.
Honestly i don't do a lot of the contacting. When I feel stuck or too much time has gone by I will reach out. At some point I will stop that I think completely.
How about when you just want to say "hi". No other reason, no thoughts about time, etc...
Act like you want to be her friend, NOT her husband who is still waiting for her to come around.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
You have gotten better about the contacting. And the contact you do have has gotten more friendly and R talks have happened less frequently.
These are all great baby steps.
The text came across as a very grand romantic gesture to me. I don't know how your W interpreted it of course. I also have no idea whether she likes that sort of thing.
Just keep a beginner's mind. You are working on starting a new R with your W and while you have an amenable friendship with her, you have not even worked up to the first date in this new R. Keep your perspective and don't get too far ahead of yourself.
How would you validate a friend? How would you boost a friend's self esteem?
You do both deserve better. And you can get there if you keep working on your communication skills and keep your desire for control in check.
I am in Nor Cal. Conveniently located an hour or less from wine country to the West, East, and South. Don't waste your money on something I can probably get cheaper. Amazon gift cards are always welcome though.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
So I am on FB chatting with a friend in the same boat as me and who happens to call.
W "hey. what are you doing"
M "not much you?"
W "just driving back from moms house."
M "oh thats good. rough weather today huh"
W "yeah it rained all day"
M "u get wet?"
W "yeah I am not water proof"
M "lol you sound a little down. everything ok?"
W "yeah just one of those days"
M "i am sorry you are having a rough day"
W "the other job called"
M "thats great."
W "yeah one crappy job for another. i won't take it if the pay is less or the hours stink"
M "well I am sure you will make the right call either way"
Talked some small talk for a little bit
M "well i talked to my buddy who is in the same boat as us"
W "how is he doing with his W"
M "they are doing pretty good actually. they have more contact and are starting to work things out"
W "I would like to talk to his W. Friends don't really understand. They listen but at the end of the convo they go home to their H. its like trying to talk to a friend while you were deployed. Yeah they hear you but don't really get the feeling. The ups and downs. I talk to my mom some she kind of gets it"
M "i know exactly what you mean. I have met a few people in our sitch and it amazes me how much they understand. It has helped. People who have not gone through it don't get it"
W "You have to have gone through this to understand it"
Talked a few more minutes then
W "Are you going to be up awhile?"
M "yep"
W "well I am going to change I just got home. I will call you back in a little bit"
Jody also told me not to make my life seem so great. She said in my W's case if she did not feel needed or respected any attempt by me to seem as if life was wonderful would come across as validating in the wrong direction. I would be validating a negative feeling. Don't be a downer but acknowledge that she is needed if that makes sense.
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
You have gotten better about the contacting. And the contact you do have has gotten more friendly and R talks have happened less frequently.
I agree with you here. Something I did wrong in the beginning was thinking every talk had to be a R talk. I have learned the hard way that sometimes talking about the weather can be just as effective towards my end goal.
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
The text came across as a very grand romantic gesture to me. I don't know how your W interpreted it of course. I also have no idea whether she likes that sort of thing.
Most people would view it that way. I strongly believe that she wanted to hear it for some reason. Perhaps I am wrong, I stand by that text.
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
How would you validate a friend? How would you boost a friend's self esteem?
You do both deserve better. And you can get there if you keep working on your communication skills and keep your desire for control in check.
Excellent point. I have control over ME and thats it.
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
I am in Nor Cal. Conveniently located an hour or less from wine country to the West, East, and South. Don't waste your money on something I can probably get cheaper. Amazon gift cards are always welcome though.
Once the fog has cleared I will make it my lifes mission to find a way to repay your kindness. I will pay it forward regardless of what happens
Hey, can I get the winning lottery numbers for tonite ?
Mach: 33 23 02 12 18 22
Those didn't work, what else isn't ?
Originally Posted By: 2stepboogie
Quote:
Stop mind reading...
At what point does it become mind reading and you just simply knowing your spouse? That is the question I ask.
You knew her well enough to know, it wouldn't hurt her to get your Tat that night too, huh ?
Originally Posted By: 2stepboogie
This is why going dark on my W might not be the best approach. In the M she felt neglected and over shadowed by me. She retreated in arguments instead of attacking. She kept it in. She smiled to avoid any conflict. She did for others and always put herself last. Why do I say this? Because I am convinced that if my W feels as if I have completely moved on she WILL give up.
I'm not seeing where anyone is telling you to go dark on her. What I see, is a lot of telling you to NOT start a relationship talk every time your phone goes off...
And that every single text from her, or call from her, you are STILL trying to convince her, and talk your way out of your actions...EVERY TIME
That you ASSUME, that you know every thing she is thinking...
STOP
It's not the contact, It's the context...
Originally Posted By: 2stepboogie
She is past the anger almost completely,
She said this ? Or your thoughts ?
Originally Posted By: 2stepboogie
personally I think she needed to hear I was still here I was still willing to be married.
If you have said it more than once, then STFU now...
Let your actions speak....words are just words
Otherwise, you assume she is stupid, and can't comprehend what you have said before.
Ok so she called back. We made small talk about her place and about work.
W "My apt is perfect for me. I love it love it love it"
M "well thats pretty good"
W "it kind of stinks though that I am almost 30 and live in a garage apt with a bunch of stuff that's not even mine. I have debt and half of it I acquired leaving your a$$"
M "yep its true"
W "that sounded a lot meaner than I intended. sorry"
M "thats ok it is true i suppose"
W "it just sounded mean. i didn't mean for it to sound mean"
Convo was kind of like this for a few minutes.
M "you want to get through this boook?"
W "yeah how many pages is the second chapter?"
M "its about 3-4"
W "ok. you don't have to wait for me to read it. you can read it if you like"
M "I know but I am in the middle of another book right now so I figured I would wait for our book and in the meantime I read the other book"
W "Ok. go ahead"
So Chapter 2 of the 5 Love Languages accomplished.
W "very interesting"
M "seems like a good book"
W "yeah it does. you don't have to wait for me to read it"
M "i know"
We talked a few more minutes
M "well I know you have to work tomorrow early"
W "yep"
M "well I will let you get some sleep hopefully tomorrow is a better day than today"
Gritter that is the book we are reading together on the phone.
Quote:
It has been a while but the most profound part for me was reading toward the front I think about the role of the parent/child.
This is the section we covered yesterday.
Quote:
You did it because you feared by not saying it she may move further away.
My W love language is words of assurance. I did it mainly for her not to get the impression i had moved on and hit the delete button on her, which is more in tune with what I would normally do. I think she needed the assurance that I had not delete the feeling of getting back together.
Something Jody told me awhile back..
Tone down the "your life is great approach" it will only validate that you really did not need her. Your managing but you miss her.
You knew her well enough to know, it wouldn't hurt her to get your Tat that night too, huh ?
Wow Mach you remember that? That was an a$$ hole move on my part. Yes. I thought she would be upset that night but not hurt. I did not know the difference between just being pi$$ed and being hurt. The difference I did not realize till she was gone. She use to tell me all the time "when I get mad I am not really mad I am hurt" that comment never made much sense to me until I began all this.
Quote:
And that every single text from her, or call from her, you are STILL trying to convince her, and talk your way out of your actions...EVERY TIME
This is something I have worked very hard on. I realize this is/was a problem.
Quote:
She said this ? Or your thoughts ?
My thoughts. The tone of her voice the topic of convo have all slowly shifted and the fact that a few weeks ago she began to actually credit me for doing somethings good as a H. Aren't those signs that the anger is beginning to fade?
Jody has also said you guys are in the first tentative stages of R. And from what I've seen on here, you are.
But you can't rush this. This is the hardest part in some ways.
You have to work on breaking out of the old patterns the hardest when it looks like there is hope. That's when it's the most tempting to backslide, to go back to what you thought was working before the bomb.
Your actions speak a lot louder than words. The fact that you are there for her, that you pick up the phone and listen, says "I am still here" far louder than you saying the words. Even though her LL is WOA, she doesn't trust all your words right now. Temper it a little bit. Keep being her friend most of all.
Awesome that you guys read the second chapter of 5LL.
Why do you think she was so insistent that you didn't need to wait for her to read it? Do you think she was being polite, or trying to convey that the book is really good and you should read it on your own and with her and then reread a few times for good measure? LOL
We all pay it forward. We all remember those first few months of hurt and panic and pain. We all remember how amazing it was to find this place and the support here. That's why some of us still check in here.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
My thoughts. The tone of her voice the topic of convo have all slowly shifted and the fact that a few weeks ago she began to actually credit me for doing somethings good as a H. Aren't those signs that the anger is beginning to fade?
Those are YOUR signs....yes
To ASSUME they are hers, is why we are debating things right now....
You seem to speculate HER thoughts quite frequently.
To me ?
I would rather speculate that I don't have a clue about her thoughts, until SHE tells me what they are....
My thoughts. The tone of her voice the topic of convo have all slowly shifted and the fact that a few weeks ago she began to actually credit me for doing somethings good as a H. Aren't those signs that the anger is beginning to fade?
Those are YOUR signs....yes
To ASSUME they are hers, is why we are debating things right now....
You seem to speculate HER thoughts quite frequently.
To me ?
I would rather speculate that I don't have a clue about her thoughts, until SHE tells me what they are....
I've got some snow for ya if ya want it ... I'll even truck it down to you ... we're running out of places to put it ... geesh. But I'm not picking through it to make sure no two are the same ... give that chore to Mach, he never seems to be busy enough at work anyway ...
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Jody has also said you guys are in the first tentative stages of R. And from what I've seen on here, you are.
She did. She mentioned that awhile ago.
Quote:
But you can't rush this. This is the hardest part in some ways.
This is the hardest part. That is why i have you guys to constantly apply the brakes
Quote:
You have to work on breaking out of the old patterns the hardest when it looks like there is hope. That's when it's the most tempting to backslide, to go back to what you thought was working before the bomb.
You NAILED it. When I or anyone of us sees a little light we run to it. We forget the squirrel anology.
Quote:
Your actions speak a lot louder than words. The fact that you are there for her, that you pick up the phone and listen, says "I am still here" far louder than you saying the words. Even though her LL is WOA, she doesn't trust all your words right now. Temper it a little bit. Keep being her friend most of all.
When I brought this up to Jody she laughed and said "every man fears that. being friends is important to them"
Quote:
Why do you think she was so insistent that you didn't need to wait for her to read it? Do you think she was being polite,
When I brought this up to Jody she laughed and said "every man fears that. being friends is important to them"
Lol. I really don't understand why guys worry about the "friendship trap." I've never dated anyone I wasn't friends with first. And even if you start dating and then develop a friendship as you date, you still have to develop a friendship. If you aren't friends, you certainly can't be more than that.
And the four phases I was taught as a newcomer here were reducing negative emotions, friendship, romance, and recommitment.
Build the friendship. Be the loyal, supportive, loving friend she needs and the rest can follow.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
Lol. I really don't understand why guys worry about the "friendship trap."
I tell you in my case and I am sure a lot of guys can relate. When I became friends with my wife it was with the goal of dating her. Now for obvious reason our motives are different. I guess I kind of fear that end up as friends and we start talking about life and she starts to tell me about how great her new boyfriend is. Can you imagine??!! LOL.
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
And the four phases I was taught as a newcomer here were reducing negative emotions, friendship, romance, and recommitment.
Those are the phases as I understand them. I think I am in the process of reducing negative emotions. I think the friendship aspect has been damaged severely but she still comes to me for certain things. That has to be a positive sign. Romance in my case will be extremely difficult since we have the distance. There will be no dating or very limited dating. I can't fly to OK every weekend for dinner and a movie
but you can still romance her from afar. When my W and I were dating, I was away for months at a time. We wrote each other the coolest notes. We both still have them! It was romantic as all can be. PLUS, once that starts, the distance makes the heart grow fonder will be even greater.
Is it ideal? Nah. But can be done.
m 40 w 38 married 15 together 18 d11, d8 bomb 12/19/10 2nd bomb 3/30/11 COMPLETELY DONE
[quote=Bolt]but you can still romance her from afar. When my W and I were dating, I was away for months at a time. We wrote each other the coolest notes. We both still have them! It was romantic as all can be. PLUS, once that starts, the distance makes the heart grow fonder will be even greater. quote]
Very, very true. Why do so many internet relationships start? Because when you're far apart you have to share your heart. You talk, you flirt, you dream together, you bare your soul.
It could really be a great thing, Bolt, if you look at it the right way.
Me - 38, 2nd M, no living children, 1 forever 6 yr old boy H - 44, 3rd M, twins 16
Dating 4/07 M 10/08 Bomb #1 12/10 Bomb #2 1/11 Bomb #3 12/11
Nice to hear from you again, I have not seen you around as of late. I hope things are looking up for you in your sitch I know you face a daily struggle. The distance is a constant thorn in my side but I must keep a positive outlook, it has allowed us to heal at our own pace without interference from each others presence.
Hope:
Nice to see you back. You too have been absent for a long time. Internet R? That is good. Maybe I should get her a PC so that she can communicate better with me. LOL.
For us girls it's Veni Vidi Visa = I came , I saw, I shopped.
BITS Me-51, WAS-52 Kids 2 M-26yrs, H.left 2009, 2 more Bomb drops, Reconnection spring 2013 Change is inevitable, personal growth is a choice. Love is a action and choice you make, every day.
For us girls it's Veni Vidi Visa = I came , I saw, I shopped.
LOVE IT!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
M “yeah I just saw that lol 90yrs old with a fb he doesn’t have a pic up yet”
W “nah he will prob put up some random pic from the internet”
M “yeah some palace in Egypt or something like that”
W “did I tell you about the other job. It’s mine if I want it”
M “oh yeah congratz”
W “yeah one crap job for another 30yrs old working a dead end job”
M “well you’ll figure it out”
W “the good thing about the new job if I take it is that I will work nights which will free me up during the day to find a real company to work for”
M “this is true”
W “there are no options though, not where I live”
M “there are always options”
W “like what?”
M “there are options there is never just one rd to take”
W “like what us getting back together?”
M “I guess that could always be an option if it is something you would want”
W “how is that H”
M “I still love you W”
W “I never said I did not love you H”
M “I am happy to hear it. Our M is fragile but I would be lying if I did not say I did not want to save it. I do. Nothing I have gone through has been for us or for our M. In the beginning yes. Everything I did to change was in wishing you would come back. I realized along the way that I was fooling myself if I thought I could change anything for our benefit. I had to change it for my benefit if not I was not really changing anything. The distance has actually allowed me to love you more than I ever did because I have taking my time to work on me and to learn about you. My feelings have not changed they have become clearer. I realize that I will be ok either way. I don’t love you until you come back. I love you regardless of whether you do or not. Regardless of the choices you make. Do I think we can work on our M? Sure. Do I think it is possible? Yep. But that is just how I feel. We did the best we could with what we had, now we have different tools”
W “I see it differently though. I don’t miss you the way you miss me. What gets me down is that now you listen to me but you never did before.. It was hard for me to share my feelings to begin with but you made it harder. Now I am extremely guarded especially with you but with my friends with my family even with my mother. Now I have to protect myself and my feelings. You think I go about life not thinking and that I am happy. I am not. I am a care taker I like to take care of people I like to feel needed. But what I really want is for someone to take care of me. I made the assumption that you were going to take care of me the way I wanted you to take care of me. You can call it gullible, naïve, or being stupid. I know you think we can work things out but there is no way that would work. I will never walk in those shoes again”
M “I would never ask you too. I have accepted that our M is dead as it should be. I realize we did the best we could with what we knew. Along the way I made many many mistakes I realize that. I have learned many lessons; I have you to thank for that”
W “good your welcome. I was not a priority in your life. You mother was, you allowed her to do whatever and say whatever she wanted. I allowed her to push me out of my own house. I was naïve. I have learned many lessons also although you prob won’t like the lessons I have learned. I will NEVER walk in those shoes again. To repeat the same scenario? What would be different? You are still you and I am still me. We are the same people.”
M “oh but we are not. I don’t think you are the same woman at all. I can tell when you talk to me. You have grown ”
W “maybe not. Maybe we are different. That Is not a bad thing either. I will never play second fiddle to anyone again not for you not for anyone. There is not another woman in the world that would walk in those shoes. I knew someday you would see it. I knew you would come to that realization. I am glad you did. As for me? I am not repeating the same mistake again. I have discovered that at the end of the day the only person that will take care of me is me, I don’t need you to take care of me I don’t need for you to make me happy. I have gone on my own and you know what? I can do it. Now I am pi$$ed, I don’t mean to be but I get angry. I was not a good M according to you I was not a good W according to you. I knew that if we had kids it would have been an even bigger fight because your mom was not going to do with our kids what she was doing with D. It was just another fight waiting to happen. I would of just left later. I would of left with our kids. You mom would of just put in your head that I was treating one kid different than the other or I was doing this or doing that. I would of not been true but you would not have seen it. I wasn’t this evil wicked person when you weren’t around even though that is the story you heard. Instead of taking my side you took everyone’s side but mine. You want me to repeat that? No way. I don’t want to hurt the R with your mother or for you to hate her that is how I feel about it. You always say you like the brutal honest truth. Well there you have it”
M “ you won’t hurt the R with my mother W, As you know she is moved out and anything she did she did because I allowed it. In the end the fault lies with me. Just for the record I want you to know that I always thought you were a great mother and a fantastic W it was my short comings as a H that allowed this thing to get to this point. What I should of done is gone with my instinct the first time you mentioned my mom moving and in and said no. I should of stuck to my guns. I should of followed my gut the 3 times I wanted her out and I was convinced not to. I should of done a lot but I didn’t. Obviously I did not think we would end up here. I should of not worried about what anyone else was thinking and just done it”
W “yeah we can should have our life away. Had that 3rd party not been there maybe we could of worked on our M maybe we could have made it. That is in the past, I don’t get out of this without fault but that is what we do learn from our mistakes. We don’t go back and repeat them. Nah, I could never go back too much hurt and I am way too guarded to make anything work. I can’t walk in those shoes again”
M “I would never ask you to do that again”
W “Good because the answer would be NO”
Couple seconds of silence after that.
W “well I am sorry the conversation turned so dreary”
M “No that’s alright. I don’t think it was dreary, honesty is best I think. You know I like honesty regardless of it comes out”
W “I think I am going to get something to eat.”
M “me too. I am getting kind of hungry”
W “well if I don’t talk to you this weekend I will call you sometimes next week”
M “Have a good weekend”
I did not intent for the convo to go this way. I guess I should have expected it. This convo was actually yesterday but I was pretty shook after it and did not feel like posting. At some point we all have to face our reality, I am slowly facing mine. It does not take away from all the great advice and support I have received in this wonderful place and I don’t discount the DB tactics in the lease. I am at a cross roads as to what I want to do. I am not sure at this point……………………………………………………….
I'm sorry 2Step. Take some time to let your emotions settle and don't do anything rash. I had a very similar conversation with my W on January 2nd. 2 months later things are looking up for my M. Things can change man. They can.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I am at a cross roads as to what I want to do. I am not sure at this point………………………………………………………
Honestly, I think the first thing you need to do is somehow avoid these type of conversations. I actually think it is a positive that your W is willing to voice her concerns the way she does, but I would try to make sure she is doing that on her own, or with someone else, not with you right now. I actually think everything you said was great, but I am hearing it from an LBS, not the WAS. I can see her just hearing it all as "I changed! I changed!" That is not going to work.
I know it is hard being so far apart to feel like you can "show her," but that is still exactly what you need to do, and you know that.
"I am a care taker I like to take care of people I like to feel needed. But what I really want is for someone to take care of me."
God, I know this is the exact thing with my W as well. She is an RN, a completely giving person. I took advantage of that, everything was her giving and me taking. Anyways, I can relate I guess.
It is funny how it is easier to give advice than to take it, or at least act on it. But we all know what we should be doing, the trick is just doing it.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
I don’t miss you the way you miss me. What gets me down is that now you listen to me but you never did before..
2step
She is angry right now. In her own words.
She doesn't believe yours.
Words are not going to do it here man.
So stop trying to convince her.
And
You haven't given her a reason to miss you.
You have jumped at every little crumb of contact with her.
Painting a rosey picture with words.
You can give up if you want.
IMO you deliver your creed to her.
I love these words;
They are not mine they come from Bworl:
I believe there is a time for such conversations.
It is typically NOT when we want it to be.
When our spouse walks away, we enter a form of desperation. We will do anything to initiate contact, open communication, be in the same place, etc.
She needs space. She wants space. When you try to engage her in a discussion, particularly one so meaningful as one of admitting wrong and asking for forgiveness, you appear to be pushing your agenda on her. No matter how well meaning - and let's be honest, at least part of the motivation for this is to appeal for leniency and clemency in the hope that she will reconsider her current path - the impression we send is that OUR needs and desires are more important than hers.
The hardest thing to finally accept and grasp in the heat of this crisis is that there is ultimately only one thing that YOU can control.
You.
Nothing you say is going to win for you what you most want to win.
Actions still speak more loudly than words. Consistency, even in her separateness, is still an attractive and valued commodity for her.
You are to become the rock.
You have to care for yourself. You have to find yourself. You have to restore yourself. You have to be who you are and nothing else. You have to become a man of integrity and honor who desperately wants this woman in your life, but who will bear the burden of living without her to establish these things above.
Respect her by respecting yourself.
Take the focus OFF of her and the marriage, then put it squarely on the only thing you can effectively change.
You
Good words.
You are not getting what you want and you are not hearing what you want.
Time to move on?
That is what she expects after delivering that message.
She expects you will. That is the man she knew.
Who is 2step now?
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
2step, i have been following your thread and also listening to your advice on other threads.
My 2 cents. You are at a crossroads that NOBODY can determine which way to go. Nobody on this site, you or even your wife. And thats what [censored] so bad. There is no script or crystal balls. Its all about what YOU can endure and what YOU want to interpret from the conversation.
I think TG is correct in that she is angry right now and the WAW will say ANYTHING and EVERYTHING when they are angry. Hell my W said that she hasnt loved me in 11 years once and then the next day resinded that comment. Who know what she is really thinking.
No doubt she is PI$$ed at you right now, and that is surely clouding somethings. Listen to Sandi, she is very good and was a WAW herself. I always read her responses as she pulls no punches.
My heart goes out to you man. You cant understand why they wont believe you when you say things will be different but my Counciler told me that when they are done, they are done. And it may not change. But then again it may, she may be done for now but keep making those changes for yourself and IF she does see them as perminant and real. Than she MAY come back but even if she doesnt, you have improved. You are in the present and not wallowing in the past.
Hang in there 2step. Better days ahead one way or another.
9 BITS
BITS M-46 W-42 M-16y T-19 y s10 s15 BombDec.19/09 Sep-F16/10 Sep Papers signed by W- June 30/10 Recon July 5/10 PA foundOut- Oct 30/10 Mental HospNov/10 moved out Nov/10 Leg Sep Mar 15/11
As a wife who got taken for granted...I read what she says as a good thing, in some ways. She knows what she wants, she's telling you what she wants, and she is saying why she thinks you/her won't have it together. You just keep on being the best you that you can be - maybe she'll be convinced, maybe not...you'll be better off regardless. You won't convince her overnight.
Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible. --Stanislaw Lem
I don’t miss you the way you miss me. What gets me down is that now you listen to me but you never did before..
2step
She is angry right now. In her own words.
She doesn't believe yours.
Words are not going to do it here man.
So stop trying to convince her.
And
You haven't given her a reason to miss you.
You have jumped at every little crumb of contact with her.
Painting a rosey picture with words.
You can give up if you want.
IMO you deliver your creed to her.
I love these words;
They are not mine they come from Bworl:
I believe there is a time for such conversations.
It is typically NOT when we want it to be.
When our spouse walks away, we enter a form of desperation. We will do anything to initiate contact, open communication, be in the same place, etc.
She needs space. She wants space. When you try to engage her in a discussion, particularly one so meaningful as one of admitting wrong and asking for forgiveness, you appear to be pushing your agenda on her. No matter how well meaning - and let's be honest, at least part of the motivation for this is to appeal for leniency and clemency in the hope that she will reconsider her current path - the impression we send is that OUR needs and desires are more important than hers.
The hardest thing to finally accept and grasp in the heat of this crisis is that there is ultimately only one thing that YOU can control.
You.
Nothing you say is going to win for you what you most want to win.
Actions still speak more loudly than words. Consistency, even in her separateness, is still an attractive and valued commodity for her.
You are to become the rock.
You have to care for yourself. You have to find yourself. You have to restore yourself. You have to be who you are and nothing else. You have to become a man of integrity and honor who desperately wants this woman in your life, but who will bear the burden of living without her to establish these things above.
Respect her by respecting yourself.
Take the focus OFF of her and the marriage, then put it squarely on the only thing you can effectively change.
You
Good words.
You are not getting what you want and you are not hearing what you want.
Time to move on?
That is what she expects after delivering that message.
She expects you will. That is the man she knew.
Who is 2step now?
^^^^^^^^^^
Yes.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
[quote=2stepboogie] And the four phases I was taught as a newcomer here were reducing negative emotions, friendship, romance, and recommitment.
The step I will miss. That reconnection phase its hard to do from across the country. I am not being negative I am being a realist.
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
2step
She is angry right now. In her own words.
She doesn't believe yours.
Words are not going to do it here man.
So stop trying to convince her.
And
You haven't given her a reason to miss you.
You have jumped at every little crumb of contact with her.
Painting a rosey picture with words.
You can give up if you want.
IMO you deliver your creed to her.
Maybe your right Gritter. I know words will not be enough but unless she has a NASA type telescope words is the only change she will see.
Giving up? That would be the easiest thing for me to do wouldn't it? I would not say I am giving up, I would say I am re-assesing my sitch.
Maybe she is right. Maybe there is too much hurt, to much distance, to much of a risk. After all it's not about just me. How does she reconnect with my D? How do we date? How do we get to know each other again? She is going to pack move back and date while we live in the same house. Not likely.
It's ok though. I took a day to answer because I was not in a position to post yesterday, I was not heartbroken or lost I was just re-evaluating my approach. I did cry yesterday for the first time in over a month. Kind of disappointed about that. My D set it off, I got on to her about something and she started to let her feelings out. "You are being mean! W understands me! You made her leave! My life is terrible now because of you! I have no mother because of you! I am calling W and telling her how mean you are" I know it's words of a frustrated 11yr old girl. I know this. It does not change how her words made me feel. I dropped her off at home and went to park my car on a cliff close to my house. Don't worry it's not what you think. I was looking at the view of Western Jersey. There in the privacy of my car I broke down for a good 45 min.
I realized the obstacles I face are huge.
I do have some pretty good contact with my W.
I also have a level of contact some on here would kill for.
Great for me.
It's not the words that cut, it's the way she says it. Yeah based on her words she sound angry, she is also at peace with her decision to move on. That is the part that is hard to capture when I post.
My new plan?
Doesn't matter to me whether she calls or she doesn't. Doesn't matter if she sends a text or an email. I will REALLY move on with my life with little regard as to when she will call or not call. No more reading. No more DB sessions. If she wants that she will have to seek it out. I have to become a better father and a better person. Do I hurt? As much as I did in Oct when she left. The pain lingers but I imagine someday it will go away or at least be more bearable.
I will continue to answer her calls, not because I am looking for some type of reconciliation but out of courtesy. Never throughout this entire process has she ignored my calls or not called me back. She has always been there to talk. I have worked through my pain by talking to her and by you guys holding my hand when I stumble, which I do often.
She will find an ear if she calls. My gratitude to her for her kindness.
AJM80, 9Lives, Grr, Denver, Country, LATB
Thanks for checking on me. I really do appreciate it. This is a long painful journey. Some of us will make it and some of won't. Wish there was some magic list out there. I really believe that More marriages might survive if the partners realized that sometimes the better comes after the worse.
Mach1 gave me some good advice regarding taking an action and I am currently putting that plan into place.
Heard this song the other and wanted to share it with you.
Hang in there two step. I hope you mean what you say about not obsessing about any communications with her. GAL for real and see where that leads you.
One never knows what twist lies ahead>
9
BITS
BITS M-46 W-42 M-16y T-19 y s10 s15 BombDec.19/09 Sep-F16/10 Sep Papers signed by W- June 30/10 Recon July 5/10 PA foundOut- Oct 30/10 Mental HospNov/10 moved out Nov/10 Leg Sep Mar 15/11
I know words will not be enough but unless she has a NASA type telescope words is the only change she will see.
I know you are not where she can see you but even when you talk to her she can see your actions.
I mean really what I am saying is stop trying to CONVINCE her with your words.
Stop telling her how you changed and how it will be if she comes back.
Show her through words. Act on the phone with her as the new 2step.
True, I just always love reading your words of wisdom. I'm going to remember this for me too.
It is really not as literal as is sounds. When you speak you are acting out who you are.
Yes?
Unless you are a mime...
This distance is not an excuse 2step. Don't use it for one.
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
True, I just always love reading your words of wisdom. I'm going to remember this for me too.
I messed up my prior reponse! It's Monday, time change etc.! ;-)
2, YOU are awesome. Sorry you are having a rough couple of days. Hang in there...I'm still routing for you!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
2Step, sorry to hear about man. Hang in there. You know you gotta keep your daughter as you highest priority. I guess only then you maybe able to change your direction and move on yourself.
BITS M 38 W 36 D 7 Married 15 yrs W left for 6 months in 2009 W Filed for D 01/03/11 piecing now...
You have been learning DB for months now. You give great advice to others here, including me. But... you have had it relatively easy until now with your own sitch...
Now is the time to walk the walk man...
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I don’t miss you the way you miss me. What gets me down is that now you listen to me but you never did before..
2step
She is angry right now. In her own words.
She doesn't believe yours.
Words are not going to do it here man.
So stop trying to convince her.
And
You haven't given her a reason to miss you.
You have jumped at every little crumb of contact with her.
Painting a rosey picture with words.
You can give up if you want.
IMO you deliver your creed to her.
I love these words;
They are not mine they come from Bworl:
I believe there is a time for such conversations.
It is typically NOT when we want it to be.
When our spouse walks away, we enter a form of desperation. We will do anything to initiate contact, open communication, be in the same place, etc.
She needs space. She wants space. When you try to engage her in a discussion, particularly one so meaningful as one of admitting wrong and asking for forgiveness, you appear to be pushing your agenda on her. No matter how well meaning - and let's be honest, at least part of the motivation for this is to appeal for leniency and clemency in the hope that she will reconsider her current path - the impression we send is that OUR needs and desires are more important than hers.
The hardest thing to finally accept and grasp in the heat of this crisis is that there is ultimately only one thing that YOU can control.
You.
Nothing you say is going to win for you what you most want to win.
Actions still speak more loudly than words. Consistency, even in her separateness, is still an attractive and valued commodity for her.
You are to become the rock.
You have to care for yourself. You have to find yourself. You have to restore yourself. You have to be who you are and nothing else. You have to become a man of integrity and honor who desperately wants this woman in your life, but who will bear the burden of living without her to establish these things above.
Respect her by respecting yourself.
Take the focus OFF of her and the marriage, then put it squarely on the only thing you can effectively change.
You
Good words.
You are not getting what you want and you are not hearing what you want.
Time to move on?
That is what she expects after delivering that message.
She expects you will. That is the man she knew.
Who is 2step now?
^^^^^^^^^^
Yes.
BITS Denver
Yes yes and yes!
And YAY that she is angry!!!!!!! She absolutely has to go through this phase for anything to progress! When you start hearing the "it's too late" and "why didn't you change before" and "I can never go back to that" and all the anger comes out it means they are doing some heavy processing! That they see the changes you have made and have doubts about whether they have done the right thing. So they remind themselves of how bad it was, how they can never go back to that, the WAS cultivates that anger as a defense!
Remember IGNORE ALL OF WHAT THEY SAY AND HALF OF WHAT THEY DO!
It doesn't feel like it, but you are at a place of great potential.
Don't do anything rash. Be patient. And don't give up yet. She's not done, and you shouldn't be either.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
2step, I know exactly where you are. I feel much the same. Yes, my geographical constraints are much different than yours ... but we share a lot right now, brother.
And, while we have been talking .... the thing you have probably struggled the most with is real detachment. Well, you are there or nearly there. But, I suspect you'll struggle again with it from time to time. And, I think I can help you with that. If it doesn't help, throw it out .... but it helps me.
So, I'm going to walk you thru an exercise that I do ... I got this from a book that you and I discussed in the past.
The idea is ... the world is an abundant place .... your W isn't the key to your happiness or your daughter's. Both of you will be good ... with or without W. What if feels like to be a LBS, is that you had the foundation of your life pulled from you by somebody you like and you want them to come back so you feel fine. But, they were never our foundation. Maybe we used them as a crutch, but they are not necessary for us (nor for our daughters).
What I'm telling you, is that the WORLD is FULL of the things we want. Your daughter (or mine) cannot know this. They are too young. But, WE can learn this. What this means is ... the love, affection, family happiness, sex, being desired by somebody we desire (or, for daughters, having a family environment with a woman that they can look up to who is with their daddy) .... all of this is readily available. It IS, no . it really is.
When our Ws pulled the rug out on us .... the world started to feel like it was closing in. That the key to our future happiness and our daughter's well being etc. was F-ing EVERYTHING up. So, the exercise, is to visualize this world of abundance. To remember, that everything we desire is within our grasp. If nothing else, our Ws brought about the changes in our lives that forced us to realize this. And we should thank them for that.
So, close your eyes. Imagine that the world is a place of abundance. The love, happiness, the woman to help raise your D .. your happiness, your daughter's happiness .... it's all out there. The world isn't closing in, it's not taking things from you. You and your D are going to have a great life. Your W has to figure out what her path to a good life is for her. She's lost though. Its ok. You don't need her. Hopefully she decides to come back to your path, but it isn't necessary. You are not going to be fine ... you are going to be great. All you have to do, is choose great.
B.I.T.S
Formerly known as onStepAtATime Me:31 W:31 T:13 yrs M:8 yrs D: 20 months ILYBNILWY: 9/22/10 "I want a separation" 1/05/11
I open my thread today and think to myself.....How lucky am I? How lucky that I have total strangers care so much and offer such strong words of wisdom.
In everyone's life, at some time, our inner fire goes out. It then burst into flame by an encounter with another human being. We should all be thankful for those people who rekindle the inner spirit.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Yes 2Step...
You have been learning DB for months now. You give great advice to others here, including me. But... you have had it relatively easy until now with your own sitch...
Now is the time to walk the walk man...
BITS Denver
Give up? Not my style. Not my style at all. I will continue on my quest but my focus has shifted. I realize the convo was actually good for me, it allowed me to be one step closer to detachment. This is a constant thing for all of us there is not one thing that allows you to detach it is a mountain of little things.
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
Yes yes and yes!
And YAY that she is angry!!!!!!! She absolutely has to go through this phase for anything to progress! When you start hearing the "it's too late" and "why didn't you change before" and "I can never go back to that" and all the anger comes out it means they are doing some heavy processing! That they see the changes you have made and have doubts about whether they have done the right thing. So they remind themselves of how bad it was, how they can never go back to that, the WAS cultivates that anger as a defense!
Remember IGNORE ALL OF WHAT THEY SAY AND HALF OF WHAT THEY DO!
It doesn't feel like it, but you are at a place of great potential.
Don't do anything rash. Be patient. And don't give up yet. She's not done, and you shouldn't be either.
She is going through her phase I am sure she will be battling these emotions for a long time to come. That's ok. The only difference is I will not participate any longer. This will be her feelings to deal with. She hates her job? Sorry. She hates her life? Sorry. None of these things are my problem any longer. I have my own BS to deal with. She wants to buy a 79 Cordova? Awesome! Enjoy the ride. As for "potential" that is good to hear, I will continue to move forward and if it happens it happens. Can't worry about her any longer. In doing so I am making myself miserable and I continue to slip. I have to LET GO of expectations, which is easy to do because no one is going to tell me that they don't come here with the expectations of saving their M. We ALL come here for that.
I will be here standing for my M until I am no longer. I will know when that this. Only difference now is that after taking a few days to think it over I realize i don't need my W in my life any longer. She wants to move on, happy trails. She wants to come back, I am here to WORK on our M. It's about me.
Originally Posted By: ironMan
2step, I know exactly where you are. I feel much the same. Yes, my geographical constraints are much different than yours ... but we share a lot right now, brother.
And, while we have been talking .... the thing you have probably struggled the most with is real detachment. Well, you are there or nearly there. But, I suspect you'll struggle again with it from time to time. And, I think I can help you with that. If it doesn't help, throw it out .... but it helps me.
So, I'm going to walk you thru an exercise that I do ... I got this from a book that you and I discussed in the past.
The idea is ... the world is an abundant place .... your W isn't the key to your happiness or your daughter's. Both of you will be good ... with or without W. What if feels like to be a LBS, is that you had the foundation of your life pulled from you by somebody you like and you want them to come back so you feel fine. But, they were never our foundation. Maybe we used them as a crutch, but they are not necessary for us (nor for our daughters).
What I'm telling you, is that the WORLD is FULL of the things we want. Your daughter (or mine) cannot know this. They are too young. But, WE can learn this. What this means is ... the love, affection, family happiness, sex, being desired by somebody we desire (or, for daughters, having a family environment with a woman that they can look up to who is with their daddy) .... all of this is readily available. It IS, no . it really is.
When our Ws pulled the rug out on us .... the world started to feel like it was closing in. That the key to our future happiness and our daughter's well being etc. was F-ing EVERYTHING up. So, the exercise, is to visualize this world of abundance. To remember, that everything we desire is within our grasp. If nothing else, our Ws brought about the changes in our lives that forced us to realize this. And we should thank them for that.
So, close your eyes. Imagine that the world is a place of abundance. The love, happiness, the woman to help raise your D .. your happiness, your daughter's happiness .... it's all out there. The world isn't closing in, it's not taking things from you. You and your D are going to have a great life. Your W has to figure out what her path to a good life is for her. She's lost though. Its ok. You don't need her. Hopefully she decides to come back to your path, but it isn't necessary. You are not going to be fine ... you are going to be great. All you have to do, is choose great.
IronMan: WOW. Just simply WOW. These are such great points. You of course are completely right. This is now my focus.
How were your reactions different than in the past ?
I was not combative and I have learn to listen. I do not defend myself.
Originally Posted By: Mach1
How did you handle yourself differently with her ?
I allowed her to speak and vent without cutting her off.
Originally Posted By: Mach1
How does this motivate you moving forward ?
Because I realize that I am becoming a better person everyday. I am not to where I want to be yet, but I am closer than I was a month ago. I love my W, always have and always will but I will not condem my future because of her decisions.
Originally Posted By: Mach1
DB principals, we always question them because they seem so counter-intuitive to us...
What seems up, we DB as down...
What seems East, we DB west....
What seems the worst ?
We DB forward....
Where are you ?
One of the single hardest things for us to do is to trust what we don't understand and apply it. I argue. I debate. With you and some others, I don't do it out of stubborness I do it because I want to understand in a way that makes sense to me. Once it makes sense to us is when we can really put our efforts to work.
2, I hope you know how proud I am of you even if there are days when you want to pull the blankets over your head! You have been a huge help and inspiration to me. I will never forget your kindness.
Stay the course!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
2step, I have been with you here from the beginning and I will remain here with you until the end. Whatever you decide when it comes to your sitch, I think we can all trust that it will be the best for you. You have given me such great support and advice here that I will never be able to repay you. If you want to take care of 2step, do it. Yes, the things we did possibly made our WAS's walk. But, there is nothing we can do to make them come back other than leave the door open and make it as attractive of an option as possible. Hang in there, buddy! You are an inspiration in all that you do!
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
Me: 39 W: 36 T: 15 yrs M: 9 yrs S: 09/10
So you can get on with your search, baby And I can get on with mine And maybe someday we will find, That it wasn't really wasted time...
Thanks for checking in. I see in your sitch you had great success at the wedding, good for you. On my front there is nothing to report today starts day 5 no contact which is rare in my case. Not really sure what to make of it. She has been active on FB last two days which is also rare. Today I woke still in a little bit of shock I don’t know if this is normal or not after 5 months.
Thank you so much for your kind words. No road is too long with good company, I am among the best
I'm all verklempt! We really are among the best huh?!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
2, sounds like you should maybe make another appt with Jody. She will probably be a good sounding board of where to go at this juncture.
I know you prob feel like your stuck in quicksand. One wrong move and you can sink. Remain strong and confident. These changes we have all made have been a gift.
Stay the course 2. You can do it.
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
Man you have been an inspiration for me too. Keep the good fight going. It will pay off in one way or the other. As people here know, it is much easier to quit and move on. You have stayed on for this long man. You need to feel proud about that. I am sure that in itself has taught a lot of good things that you will take forward in your life.
Right now I too am going through some sort of detachment. It is hard. But there sure is some light at the end of this loong tunnel.
BITS M 38 W 36 D 7 Married 15 yrs W left for 6 months in 2009 W Filed for D 01/03/11 piecing now...
2, as you contemplate your next move, here is a thought from the famous TrueGritter. I'm making him famous!!! I think if you talk to your W or see her face to face you might consider these words....
Dear W,
I've told you before that I still love you and still think that we can have a great life together as both a couple and a family. I've not changed my mind on that. But I understand you are not happy, that you do not feel happy or complete inside.
You need to do what will make you happy. By my side, we live as partners, we share everything and we would do anything to help one another. But that's only if we continue as a team.
I won't stand in your way. But I also will not help you leave this marriage or this family. And I will never accept another person being a part of our life together.
I hope you find the happiness you are looking for. Go do what you need to do. You know where I will be.
Just some food for thought. Sink or Swim!!! ;-)
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
NC is not necessarily a bad thing. The WASs need these times to process. Just because something is unusual in your sit doesn't mean it's a bad thing. You want things to change right?
Be patient.
And LOVE what Zen posted.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
Nice to see you around these parts. No worries the 2step is still...............well stepping. 5 days of NC and I am still standing. As Billy Joel would say "and so it goes".
Zen:
Thanks for the post I am going to remember that because one day I am going to use it. I tell you one thing about Gritter, he is good to plagiarize cause the stuff he writes is some heavy sh!t.
Michelle:
I thought you were taking a break from my drama! I did not realize you were in the Army. Congratz on the CPT promotion. I knew there was something about you I loved!!
I called the court house today to talk to the court clerk and see what the status of my D was. Some would call that snooping I call it preparation. The clerk informed me that the process was started back on Jan 5th, I know that already, but since that date no new developtment. It is just sitting there nothing has progressed. It is not moving forward nor has it been cancelled. I took that as good news.
So today I am still stepping.................I will be around checking up on some threads for the next few hours.
Yep yep. Waiting on federal recognition to get pinned. Or maybe state. I don't know. I'll probably be the last to know lol. Thanks!
Nice to know that she hasn't turned in the papers you returned yet. Not that it would mean much if she did, it certainly doesn't mean you couldn't bust the D.
Glad you are hanging in there. Use this time to really focus on yourself, to practice your detachment.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
Good to see you hanging in there 2step. Use this time to refocus and regain your stregth. I know it is cliche, but this is a marathon and not a sprint.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
I have mainly working. My schedule during the week is usually pretty boring and routine. Take D to school shower go to work. Pick up D from after school program help with HW, make dinner read a book with her and then put her to sleep.
Its the same thing day in and day out. On the weekends she has piano and church.
Its like groundhog day.
I am always thinking though, always processing, always analyzing. It never stops. People say 'forgive yourself we all make mistakes' this is true and for the most part I don't blame myself all that much anymore, however ending a R of 10 yrs is a pretty big freaking mistake.
I am not wallowing I am simply stating.
The reason I have been quiet is like to post only when I have something to say or when I feel I can contribute some advice to others that might help. Based on my current backslides and gonig into 5 months of the same ol same ol I wonder how much of what I am doing is really meaning anything.
I don't want to sound like a hypocrite when I talk to others and tell them GAL, Detach, No Expectations when I feel like sometimes I am doing the same thing.
I appreciate your checking up on me it means a lot and I have a new update to post. I will get to it in a little bit.
2 likes to dangle the carrot at us when he has a new update! ;-)
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
This is a great place to process. To journal. Use it to it's full potential.
As for the timeline, you don't see results right away. You make the changes and start the process and then you have to continue the changes for yourself and be patient. It takes time for the WAS to notice and more time for them to believe that the changes could be real and lasting. They have to be lasting, that's why they have to be made for yourself.
As for sounding like a hypocrite, we always see others situations more clearly. Sometimes giving advice is the best way to take your own advice.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
This is a great place to process. To journal. Use it to it's full potential.
As for the timeline, you don't see results right away. You make the changes and start the process and then you have to continue the changes for yourself and be patient. It takes time for the WAS to notice and more time for them to believe that the changes could be real and lasting. They have to be lasting, that's why they have to be made for yourself.
As for sounding like a hypocrite, we always see others situations more clearly. Sometimes giving advice is the best way to take your own advice.
LOVE it Michelle!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
2step, you are doing well. I'm following your lead, as well as the advice that you've gotten and given, especially since our situations are so similar.
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
Feels like a long time since I have posted an update so I am glad to be back to posting. It was actually kind of interesting how yesterday played out.
I am talking to friends who are familiar with the sitch and I was telling them how it is rare that i go 6 days of no contact. One friend suggested to break the silence while others said to be patient.
At around 3PM the silence was broken..........she called
W: Hey you have an appt for D at 4:30PM?
M: yeah why?
W: they just called Dr will be out so you need to reschedule they just called me
M: Oh ok. Sorry about that.I did not realize they had your number instead of mine. She has an ear infection I am kind of tired of going to the Dr every few weeks for this
W: Take her to an ENT. You should take her to that place in NY.
M: yeah that was a good place. Haven't spoken to you in awhile you doing ok
W: yeah I am good I gotta get back to work just wanted to pass on the message. Please give them your number so they can call you next time.
M: sure no problem
The whole thing lasted about 2 Min and it was distant and cold she sounded almost annoyed at the fact that the Dr called her. She was off, but I let it go.
Later on that night I was thinking about the exchange and I had to reach her regarding taxes anyway but was unsure if I should or not. However, some things take priority over feelings and fear and the IRS is one. So I reached out to her and there was no answer. No worries on my part a few minutes later I get a text from her
W: At work till 8PM will call back when I get out
M: No prob.
W: Everything Ok?
No response from me I was busy. She called as promised and this is how that exchange went
W: Wats up
M: Wanted to let you know about this tax stuff blah blah
W: Hmmmmm OK
M: You sound skeptical
W: I am
M: I can give you the number for the IRS and you can call them yourself to verify if you like
W: I have the number is just finding the time to call
M: you sounded a little annoyed today when I spoke to you. I wanted to let you know I changed your info with the Dr so they will not be contacting you again.
W: Thats ok I know that is going to happen until everybody knows whats going on.
M: yeah I guess so. Sorry you were irritated about it
W: yeah its because my job stinks I was not irritated with you just my job.
She went on to tell me about her job and what she plans on doing to get a new job and where to look. She is still holding out for the INS job and is hopeful she will get it.
W: I'm sick of being broke and in debt.
M: You mentioned the Ice Cream company and said they pay good. Why don't you look into that
W: Because I want to be able to hold my head up H. I've had to swallow a lot of pride already. Moving back home working where I work living in a garage apt
M: I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of
W: Yeah well most days I feel the same way
M: I am sure you'll be fine
W: Oh i got a another song for you. You want to hear it?
M: See my songs have a different meaning they are nice
W: My songs aren't mean
M: No they aren't I actually like some of them. So what are you doing?
W: eating a frozen pizza
We made small talk for a little bit and then started talking about a vacation we took to the Keys and lauged around for a little bit. Her mood became a little somber then we talked about an apartment we lived in
W: we should of stayed in that apt or just should have gotten an a two bedroom apt
M: Oh I agree
W: You know why I say two bedroom right?
M: Of course
W: we started having problems when we moved to the big house.
M: yep but at the end of the day no one really caused our M to break down
W: no it was all us
M: yep we did the best with what we knew
W: yep all we need to do is learn from the past and move forward and not make those mistakes again
M: I agree moving forward is key can't live in the past
We talked a few more minutes
M: Would you be interested in talking to Jody again?
W: I would think about it.
The entire convo lasted about 2hrs
Second update is from today when W calls again
W: hey what are you doing
M: Not much just in the office
W: Does the house computer still have my resume
M: Should
W: Can you email it to me
M: Sure can't till tonight though
W: That's fine. Oh I ran into old emails from when you were deployed
M: Wow that is going back a few years
W: Yeah we were soo in love back then. How things change. We have changed. Its almost like reading someone elses email. They don't even seem real.
M: Yep. I still have them also I am sure just never looked at them
W: I was looking for my resume and came across them. oh well just thought it was funny. I think I will go to the library to do my resume cause the laptop you gave me stinks and does not work
M: Just turn it on tonight and by the time you get out of work tomorrow it should be ready to go
W: yep prob piece of crap. that is why you gave it to me cause you knew it s@cks. I should of taken the house PC but you did not want me to.
M: It is not that bad once it gets going
W: If it is so freaking good then why did you not keep it?
M: Because all my school work is on the PC
W: yeah its because you knew it did not work.
M: don't you have a best buy account now?
W: yeah that I used to buy my mom a tv and I can't afford to buy a new PC. Smart a$$
M: Not meant as a smart a$$ comment. You want the house PC I will send it to you I can get a new one
W: I don't need it. I am back at work I gotta go
Hung up as I was in mid sentence. sigh and a smile on my part. Life su@ks for you babe and I am sorry but nothing I can do about it.
I was thinking of sending the PC cause i really do need a new one and I can easily go buy one. One less thing I have to hear about and that will really shut her up.
It's funny how one day we go from talking about another DB session and the next she is irritated about the PC
Her job s@cks=my fault No PC=My fault No money=My fault Life is unfair=My fault She is in debt=My fault It is snowing=My fault Tsunami in Japan=My fault
Feels like a long time since I have posted an update so I am glad to be back to posting. It was actually kind of interesting how yesterday played out.
I am talking to friends who are familiar with the sitch and I was telling them how it is rare that i go 6 days of no contact. One friend suggested to break the silence while others said to be patient.
At around 3PM the silence was broken..........she called
W: Hey you have an appt for D at 4:30PM?
M: yeah why?
W: they just called Dr will be out so you need to reschedule they just called me
M: Oh ok. Sorry about that.I did not realize they had your number instead of mine. She has an ear infection I am kind of tired of going to the Dr every few weeks for this
W: Take her to an ENT. You should take her to that place in NY.
M: yeah that was a good place. Haven't spoken to you in awhile you doing ok
W: yeah I am good I gotta get back to work just wanted to pass on the message. Please give them your number so they can call you next time.
M: sure no problem
The whole thing lasted about 2 Min and it was distant and cold she sounded almost annoyed at the fact that the Dr called her. She was off, but I let it go.
Later on that night I was thinking about the exchange and I had to reach her regarding taxes anyway but was unsure if I should or not. However, some things take priority over feelings and fear and the IRS is one. So I reached out to her and there was no answer. No worries on my part a few minutes later I get a text from her
W: At work till 8PM will call back when I get out
M: No prob.
W: Everything Ok?
No response from me I was busy. She called as promised and this is how that exchange went
W: Wats up
M: Wanted to let you know about this tax stuff blah blah
W: Hmmmmm OK
M: You sound skeptical
W: I am
M: I can give you the number for the IRS and you can call them yourself to verify if you like
W: I have the number is just finding the time to call
M: you sounded a little annoyed today when I spoke to you. I wanted to let you know I changed your info with the Dr so they will not be contacting you again.
W: Thats ok I know that is going to happen until everybody knows whats going on.
M: yeah I guess so. Sorry you were irritated about it
W: yeah its because my job stinks I was not irritated with you just my job.
She went on to tell me about her job and what she plans on doing to get a new job and where to look. She is still holding out for the INS job and is hopeful she will get it.
W: I'm sick of being broke and in debt.
M: You mentioned the Ice Cream company and said they pay good. Why don't you look into that
W: Because I want to be able to hold my head up H. I've had to swallow a lot of pride already. Moving back home working where I work living in a garage apt
M: I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of
W: Yeah well most days I feel the same way
M: I am sure you'll be fine
W: Oh i got a another song for you. You want to hear it?
M: See my songs have a different meaning they are nice
W: My songs aren't mean
M: No they aren't I actually like some of them. So what are you doing?
W: eating a frozen pizza
We made small talk for a little bit and then started talking about a vacation we took to the Keys and lauged around for a little bit. Her mood became a little somber then we talked about an apartment we lived in
W: we should of stayed in that apt or just should have gotten an a two bedroom apt
M: Oh I agree
W: You know why I say two bedroom right?
M: Of course
W: we started having problems when we moved to the big house.
M: yep but at the end of the day no one really caused our M to break down
W: no it was all us
M: yep we did the best with what we knew
W: yep all we need to do is learn from the past and move forward and not make those mistakes again
M: I agree moving forward is key can't live in the past
We talked a few more minutes
M: Would you be interested in talking to Jody again?
W: I would think about it.
The entire convo lasted about 2hrs
Second update is from today when W calls again
W: hey what are you doing
M: Not much just in the office
W: Does the house computer still have my resume
M: Should
W: Can you email it to me
M: Sure can't till tonight though
W: That's fine. Oh I ran into old emails from when you were deployed
M: Wow that is going back a few years
W: Yeah we were soo in love back then. How things change. We have changed. Its almost like reading someone elses email. They don't even seem real.
M: Yep. I still have them also I am sure just never looked at them
W: I was looking for my resume and came across them. oh well just thought it was funny. I think I will go to the library to do my resume cause the laptop you gave me stinks and does not work
M: Just turn it on tonight and by the time you get out of work tomorrow it should be ready to go
W: yep prob piece of crap. that is why you gave it to me cause you knew it s@cks. I should of taken the house PC but you did not want me to.
M: It is not that bad once it gets going
W: If it is so freaking good then why did you not keep it?
M: Because all my school work is on the PC
W: yeah its because you knew it did not work.
M: don't you have a best buy account now?
W: yeah that I used to buy my mom a tv and I can't afford to buy a new PC. Smart a$$
M: Not meant as a smart a$$ comment. You want the house PC I will send it to you I can get a new one
W: I don't need it. I am back at work I gotta go
Hung up as I was in mid sentence. sigh and a smile on my part. Life su@ks for you babe and I am sorry but nothing I can do about it.
I was thinking of sending the PC cause i really do need a new one and I can easily go buy one. One less thing I have to hear about and that will really shut her up.
It's funny how one day we go from talking about another DB session and the next she is irritated about the PC
Her job s@cks=my fault No PC=My fault No money=My fault Life is unfair=My fault She is in debt=My fault It is snowing=My fault Tsunami in Japan=My fault
I got it
2, you forgot a few things....
Earthquake in Japan = Your fault War in Iraq - Your Fault Problems in Egypt and Lybia - Your fault
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
First convo after some time and you did bring up R talk again. Some hints with the songs and also with asking her again about the coaching session.
That decision is completely yours, but be mindful of it. Think about whether or not it is the best thing for you to be doing.
Hey Country thanks for stopping by no need to apologize for the any tapping. I don't run from them although some things are a slip on my part some things are done on purpose.
You know how I got the first DB session? I asked
You know how we read the first 2 chapters of 5LL? I asked
Sometimes you take a risk and see what happens. Truth of the matter is we almost read the 5LL chpt 3 yesterday but we were both tired did not think the convo would take as long as it did.
Sometimes I miss calculate, we all do to a degree sometimes I test on purpose.
So after the nasty exchange from earlier W calls back around 5PM
W: Hey what are you up to?
M: packing up some stuff in my office
W: I wanted to call and apologize for earlier. I did not need to be nasty to you. It is not your fault I hate my job and it is not your fault the laptop stinks
M: Thanks. I appreciate it.
W: It is easy to blame you for everything going on in my life but I realize it is not all your fault. I did not mean to be a b!tch about it. It is kind of hard when you don't fight back. Which is kind of weird because you like to argue
M: I know you are not irritate with me all the time. Its fine.
W: I want to be angry with you all the time at you but I can't. It's not fair. I don't walk around all day angry and I am not angry all the time just sometimes. Mostly when i talk to you
M: Oh thats nice lol I get that though it sturs up feelings
W: yeah it does. I guess i am still a little bitter. I wanted to flip your TV on the floor when I left and stomp on your Play Station and throw your $300 surge protector out the window before I left
M: lol wow. I am glad you did not do that. I think had you done that you would would have received a visit from me. I am sure my plane would of gotten to OK before your truck.
W: LOL yeah prob. I guess I am just too nice. You know only one friend showed up to help me pack when I left
M: Yep you know who your real friends are at times like this.
W: Yep that is the truth.
M: That is why I have surrounded myself with people in the same boat as us. Helps me out. They get it
W: Oh yeah. How do you meet these people
M: Somebody tooned me in to a website
W: Wow you have a lot of hope huh LOL. I don't want to give you any false hope
M: Nah I control my hope. Not you. I will decide. I have a real clear perspective on what is going on
W: Welll good.
Talked for a few more minutes about what she was doing tonight and then hung up. Whole convo lasted about 30 min
W: It is easy to blame you for everything going on in my life but I realize it is not all your fault. I did not mean to be a b!tch about it. It is kind of hard when you don't fight back. Which is kind of weird because you like to argue
I guess you just like to argue with us now huh?
Get me up in the middle of the night... <sigh>
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Man, she just keeps going back to that "false hope" thing. Well, I think you should not return her call the next three or four calls. You know, "you don't want to give her false hope." When you do finally talk with her, remind her that your darkness can be attributed to not wanting to give her false hope. See how she likes that medicine for a spell.
If her job [censored], her living quarters suck, her computer [censored], let her sit in the "suck" for a time. She created the "suck," so let her sit there until it "[censored]" her dry...
FOBD
Me: 39 W: 36 T: 15 yrs M: 9 yrs S: 09/10
So you can get on with your search, baby And I can get on with mine And maybe someday we will find, That it wasn't really wasted time...
First convo after some time and you did bring up R talk again. Some hints with the songs and also with asking her again about the coaching session.
That decision is completely yours, but be mindful of it. Think about whether or not it is the best thing for you to be doing.
Hey Country thanks for stopping by no need to apologize for the any tapping. I don't run from them although some things are a slip on my part some things are done on purpose.
You know how I got the first DB session? I asked
You know how we read the first 2 chapters of 5LL? I asked
Sometimes you take a risk and see what happens. Truth of the matter is we almost read the 5LL chpt 3 yesterday but we were both tired did not think the convo would take as long as it did.
Sometimes I miss calculate, we all do to a degree sometimes I test on purpose.
I understand that. I just had a coaching session and one thing I need to remember is to take some risks. I haven't really been doing it at all. So I agree with you, risks need to be taken. I would just caution you on how often you do it.
The DB session and the book sound positive, and I am sure they were to you. But what about her? I just sense that she is still feeling pressure from you. She obviously still has some anger there, and any pressure from you is only going to remind her of it.
My advice, and of course take it for what it's worth, is to work in more convos that exhibit ZERO pressure from you. Nothing that could even be considered hints of R talk. Like in this last convo, even the reference to the website is still a little hint of pressure, and you can see by her response that she felt it. Just talk about the lightest things possible, weather, TV, a joke, music (but no heartstrings songs!), etc. If she says something that hints at it, change the subject. Like I said, only my 2 pennies....
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
2, It seems that all the interesting things happen on the weekend when I'm not on the boards!
Interesting CONVO with the W. I hate to sound snarky, but I like what FOBD brought to the table. She def feels you being on this website is presurring on her when in fact it really has nothing to do with her!!! Weird how that WAS mind thinks and validates things. It's such pretzel logic!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
All the good stuff happens when I am trying to sleep off a respiratory infection! Sheesh!
As was pointed out to you like a week or two ago, she's in the anger phase. She has to get through this, so this might not be a good time to try and move things forward. The anger is good. It means she's noticed the changes, that she's peeved that you made them after she left and not before.
Her comment about how you never argue with her...that's GREAT! Keep it up! That's really making an impression on her!
The WASs LOVE IT when they can get under your skin. When you argue with them, it validates why they left. You are refusing to play into her hands!
And whoever said don't answer the next 3 times when she calls then tell her you don't want to give her false hope...yes yes and yes! LMAO. The sentiment is dead on. It's good to give the WAS a scare every once in a while, act as if you are more detached than you are and make them realize what they might be letting go, that they might be losing you.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
You bring up a good point in saying The WASs LOVE IT when they can get under your skin. When you argue with them, it validates why they left. You are refusing to play into her hands!
There seems to be alot of panic, frustration with some of the LBS's and their WAS's blocking them on FB, unfriending them and/or starting a new page.
My reaction and it will be harsh (sorry) is...WHO CARES!!! I mean really...it's just freakin' FB. And I think it just reiterates the juvenile mentality of where the WAS's are. I think this is yet another attempt of the WAS to seem like they are in control and make us think they have some secret, fabulous life going on that they don't want us to know about. I HIGHLY doubt this is true. Our brains always shoot to the negative what-if's. How about this thought...that they are hiding things because their life really does s*ck and this is yet another mask so they don't have to face their own demons and accountability?
My STXH blocked me 3 times since we've been seperated and one of those time he even blocked my BF who is not even on FB that much anymore. I called him on and I was like really? Are you really 42?!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
The anger is good. It means she's noticed the changes, that she's peeved that you made them after she left and not before.
Her comment about how you never argue with her...that's GREAT! Keep it up! That's really making an impression on her!
These are such fantastic points! The fact that she is angry at you is a good thing. The change in you is apparent to your W. Do not let that slip and stay consistent with it.
Looking forward to reading about your progress, 2step!
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
