Be the Lighthouse

[Denver_2010]

New thread...

I chose the name of this thread because I really feel that this is what I have done since day 1 of my DB efforts. It was advice that I read very early on. It has a calming yet hopeful charm to it.

Here are the links to my old threads if you are interested in catching up.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...113#Post2115113

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2118989&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2122176&page=1

[sandi2]

Yeah, I like it!

[2stepboogie]

Ok buddy going to brooklyn right now but I will respond as promised. I think we really are in a very similar state of mind and can probably help each other int the mean time I will leave you with this. Maybe the words seem familiar.............

2Step - I really think that you and I are in a very similar phase of this process. Our W's still love us, but just don't know if they can trust us not to continue to inflict the type of wounds to them that we have in the past.

The underlying facts or our stich's may be different, but the type of pain that we have inflicted on our W's is VERY similar... the way that we have made them feel. My W has told me that she often felt that it was 2 against 1 (my SS and I vs. her). Even the fact that there is a step child involved in your sitch... which I didn't realize was not your W's daughter until today. SS make things particularly difficult too bc there is always that sense that someone, either the step child or the step parent, doesn't completely fit into the puzzle. Mixed families are all that more difficult to make succeed.

In any case, I think that you and I are past, or almost past, the phase that MichelleLT described as "reducing negative feelings" and into that developing friendship phase. We have to continue with this bc this is what our W's need right now. We need to have patience.

Give you W time to realize that her unhappiness is NOT all the result of your actions or inactions. I honestly believe that when my W left she blamed me for all of her unhappiness. I also think that she is beginning to realize that I was NOT solely responsible. Your W will too. You just need to be there when she does.

Your W still loves you A LOT. It is very clear from her words. Just be there for her right now man.

Now, if you'd just cut and past this to my thread to tell me the same thing.

[Denver_2010]

LOL!!!!! Hahaha... Now THOSE are some words of wisdom 2Step!!

Touche my friend. Touche.

BITS
Denver

[Denver_2010]

FOBD - I know that the SB invite was pushing it a bit. But, in my defense, what I haven't talked about here on the board is the session that I had with my DB Coach on Wednesday. The short version of the advice I got from her, was this:

Continue doing what has been working. BUT, use my instincts. She told me that it was okay to "test the waters" by doing little things like me inviting her to the movies the other night. She just warned me that if I sensed that any of these things pushes her away, to back off and then give it a couple of weeks.

Last night, she asked me what I was doing for the SB. I said that I didn't have any real plans. She then told me that her SIL and BIL had invited her to go with them to BIL's cousin's house, but that she didn't want to do that. Sooo... I saw an opening to "test the waters" a bit.

We'll see. If she declines, I will know that I am pushing it too hard. If she accepts, then I plan on DBing my a*s off on Sunday!

What I do know is that hug that I shared with my W last night has buoyed my spirits today!

I couldn't sleep last night bc I was fruitlessly trying to interpret my interaction with W. But my DB batteries are still charged today.

BITS
Denver

[Denver_2010]

Now, as far as your gut feeling right now... FOLLOW IT. There is nothing I can stress more at this time. My H (before finally deciding to leave) was definitely being kinder to me and I felt that he was thinking about changing his mind. BECAUSE I was so afraid of being hurt even more, I built that wall so high, no one was getting in. I wouldn't trust my instincts there. Turns out, my instincts were right. He was not ready to go and was trying. But I killed any attempt. DO NOT DO THIS. Got it?

Denver, you are going to get hurt if you are right or you are wrong about your instincts. So, now you have to decide what is going to give you the best chance at reconciliation. My opinion would be if you followed the instinct that said she is softening. Go with it. If you are wrong, then you lose her (but you would have anyway). If you are right, then you gave this thing half a chance.

I feel your pain. I am so sorry that you are struggling. We are all here for you. I pray for you.

LIS

Honestly, my instinct regarding what I know about my W is telling me that she is softening. That she is seeing my changes and my consistency with those changes. That she is seeing that her unhappiness was not all my fault. That she's sees other parts of the M package that she is giving up.

My instinct is that she has had a EA, but not a PA, but she is not quite through with that.

My instinct tells me that she is VERY afraid of trusting her heart to me again.

My instinct tells me that she is afraid that if she changes course and decides to work on M, that her friends will view her as weak and codependent.

Of course, all of these gut feelings are based on how well I know my W... NOT the WAW... thus, my hesitation in trusting them.

I do sense a change though.

I guess we SHALL see.

BITS
Denver

[Denver_2010]

When you give it without the expectation of return you will not have the pain.

You are right Grit. I do have expectations. I don't tell W this, but inside, I do.

I also know that if W came to me 5 years after D and told me that she and SS needed help that I would do everything in my power to help them.

You also will decide when you are doing it to "appear" nice to your W or if it is something you would do for a freind in need.
The latter coming not expecting anything.

I don't know Grit. I think that it can actually be both. Like I said, I know that if W and I D and she came to me months or years down the road and told me that she needed help, that I would give it to her if I could. I would do that for any of my friends now.

I admit that I would NOT have expectations of my friends for any help that I would give them now, and I would NOT have any expectations from W years after D, assuming that I had truly moved on by that point, and that I DO hold expectations from my W now. But these expectations our my for my own selfish and personal wants and desires. They are in my mind and are not put out to W as a condition for me helping her. In other words, the existence of these expectations does NOT change the fact that I would help my W as I would a friend.

Also this can be a slippery slope if you give her "everything" out of love you are not being fair to her or to you.

If you fix things repeatedly for her she will begin to resent you and you her.
KWIM?

You are ABSOLUTELY correct. Since my W left a little over 2 months ago, this is the first time that she has asked for my help, and I have not offered it. The only bills of her's that I continue to pay for are car insurance (which is attached to mine), her health insurance (again, attached to mine), and our gym membership (which she isn't even using right now). Oh, I guess that I still pay for her cell phone bc it is a package deal with my business phones. But early on, she offered to pay for her share of all of these things. I did decline her offer bc I knew that there was no way that she'd be able to afford it.

At first, there was a little resentment on my part bc I felt like I was letting myself be a doormat. But ultimately, I decided that all of this assistance was short term and making her pay me back would be petty at this point.

So always ask yourself WHY you do something.

You are right. But again, I think that there can be situations where there are multiple reasons why I choose to do something for her. This money thing last night is one such situation. If she had told me, "H, I don't have money to go out with my girlfriends can you help me?" There is no question in my mind that I would have politely declined.

why do you think your attached and why can't you detach more?

I did work really hard on being detached from early December until about 2 weeks ago. I made some progress and it did get me to a more stable emotional state. I think that this is the most important purpose of detaching early on with these sitch's. But I also decided that I was not ready to completely detach. I needed to do it just enough to be in a better emotional state personally and also enough to allow my W have the space and time that she needs, and to see that I wasn't going to continue to beg, plead and chase her to come back.

But I've made a choice, albeit a temporary one, NOT to go any further with detachment. I believe that I will reconcile with my W. I am focused on changing some things about myself that were not healthy for me or for my M. And I also believe that a big part of what is motivating me to make those changes is the pain that I'm going through. The pain from our situations hurts like hell, but that doesn't make it a bad thing necessarily. I think that we grow from feeling pain. Without pain, we sometimes forget how blessed we are when we have happiness instead. I guess I'm allowing myself to feel what I'm feeling right now.

Certainly there is a point when allowing myself to continue to feel this pain will be unhealthy, and I am conscious that there will be, at some point, a need to work towards a higher level of detachment. I'm just not there yet.

Like you have told me... The pain will guide me. And it has.

You may not realize this but your W has tremendous amount of guilt for what is happening.

Guess what the number one trigger of that is for her?

Yup. YOU.

Think of her as a turkey that you just put into the oven.

You keep opening the door and poking her to see if she's done.

When you see she hasn't begun to cook or not done to a point you think she should be...

It hurts.

Denver I know this because I did it.

Think of how far you have come in your own growth.

Now think how much help you had with people here...reading...experiencing...questioning and learning.

Your W does not have that. It will take time. HER time.

And it will happen on her pace NOT yours.

You have made so much progress...this next part

Is tough.

I know I got so pissed at the person trying to tell me. I was walking along my path, happy detached little Truegritter until I would interact with my W and feel like sh!t.

I know. This is the hard part. Realizing that my W has to heal at her own pace. I want that turkey to be done NOW... and it isn't. Not yet.

I may not be patient Grit, but I am resilient. I will move forward and allow her to come to me on her terms... or not. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to poke her every so often to see if she's done though. I need to tread carefully though.

She opens the door...

I told her that I didn't have any real plans and said to her "you guys should come over and watch it with me... we can make some queso."

You shove it open.
Her reaction left you feeling...?

Happy that she would even consider it. Hopeful that she will accept the invite. Full of expectations.

I will not pressure her about Sunday. In fact, I plan to not even contact her about it. I will wait to hear from her. If she accepts, fantastic! If not, it will sting, but I will be okay. I will continue to move forward.

[Truegritter]

fantastic!

Atta boy!

[FellOnBlackDays]

Denver, for what it is worth I will spend all weekend hoping that you get to be with her on Sunday. That would be awesome for you and would certainly give all the BITS a "pick me up." It is really satisfying to hear good news on here. Man, I hope it goes well for you.

But I like your attitude. If it doesn't, you will still be OK. If you really read carefully, I can definitely see a turn in the posts from you, me and 2step. We all seem to be turning a corner and I really like how this is going. Maybe we can all cross the finish line together.

I want to give you a bit of information that I picked up from one of my interviews with a WAS. I asked about how to handle situations such as your SB invite. Here is what he said:

"When she asks you what you are going to do for an event, simply tell her what you want to, regulate the details as you see fit, make it sound fun and interesting and then stop talking. She will do one of three things: a) say nothing b) tell you about her plans and then stop talking c)tell you that your plans sound fun and nice and end it there. This is a signal that she is still not ready for quality time together. This is what I did with my W for over a year. But, then came the day that option d came out. She told me what she was doing and I wanted to be there. So, as she told me about her plans and then stopped talking, I starting thinking in my head that I wanted to be there. I dropped a hint that I might like to be there. She accepted and it turned out to be one of the first of many events that lead to our reconciliation. You see, you need to let her be the one that initiates the first date. Why? Because if she does it, you will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that she now possesses some desire to be there. If you initiate the date, she may just show up out of pity or guilt. This is not good. It may take two weeks, two months or two years to reach a place where your W will initiate that first date. But, when she does, you will at least know that she wants to be there with you. You will have to be the one to decide how long you are willing to wait for her."

I think it is sound advice coming from a WAS. But, as you stated, you know your sitch better than any of us and you do need to go with your gut. If you think it is time to "probe" for a way in, then by all means, do it. If you get rejected, just back off and regroup. You can always try again later.

Keep being our inspiration. I wish I could bring some to the table, but my W is perfectly happy in purgatory right now and I am not willing to pursue her while she sits in there. That is an awful place. I guess I have a ways to go before I will know how this will end. Well, we both know I could end this now should I chose, but I don't want that right now...

BITS never walk alone!

FOBD

[Truegritter]

But, when she does, you will at least know that she wants to be there with you. You will have to be the one to decide how long you are willing to wait for her."

Very good advice...