Ominus Bonus

[steady]

I had the kids tonight. After dinner we were playing and I get a text from my W.

Are the kids OK?

Now I'm sitting there thinking, of course they're ok. So I send a text back. They're fine. Did something happen?

She sends back - A friend of mind died today.

Me - I'm sorry to hear that.

Me - The kids are good. Playing. Getting ready to take showers.

About 15 minutes later she sends back: Thanks.

That's it. Kinda weird exchange by her. I just went about the night and got everything done and put the kids to bed.

Everything else was normal every day groundhog day stuff...

[steady]

This is what the last post was supposed to look like:

I had the kids tonight. After dinner we were playing and I get a text from my W.

Are the kids OK?

Now I'm sitting there thinking, of course they're ok. So I send a text back. They're fine. Did something happen?

She sends back - A friend of mind died today.

Me - I'm sorry to hear that. (My first thought was to text back something like, Why are you telling me this? That's your personal life and has nothing to do with mine, or something similar to that. But I just can't be cruel - and that's a good thing)

Me - The kids are good. Playing. Getting ready to take showers.

About 15 minutes later she sends back: Thanks.

That's it. Kinda weird exchange by her. I thought about texting more, you know, Hope you're ok, etc... But I quickly got over it. The fact is I didn't feel like texting anything else. She has her support group and her OM. Not even sure why she would even tell me. I know I wouldn't if it was me. If she was looking for sympathy or something she was turning to the wrong person.

I just don't have it in me. She managed to crush all of it by her behavior this past 2 and a half years. Just blank...nothing there to offer her. Maybe one day it will be different, but for now, it's an empty tank and I have no desire to even fake it.

The thought did cross my mind - Wonder if it was the OM. The kids have met him. My mind even jumped around to different thoughts but that only lasted a couple minutes then returned back to normal. It's nice when stuff doesn't get swirled in the head and bounce around for hours or even days. So much more peace in my life.

I just went about the night and got everything done and put the kids to bed.

Everything else was normal every day groundhog day stuff...

[whiskey.tango]

I'm not really sure I understand what a friend dying has to do with the well being of your kids unless death was rolling across your state and she wanted to warn you. Yeah, I'm being a smartass - clearly a sympathy text and you were very kind.

And I wouldn't think it were OM, could be one of his parents. Do you think she'd be able to function if it were him? I hardly think she'd lean on you.

(My first thought was to text back something like, Why are you telling me this? That's your personal life and has nothing to do with mine, or something similar to that. But I just can't be cruel - and that's a good thing)

I just don't have it in me. She managed to crush all of it by her behavior this past 2 and a half years. Just blank...nothing there to offer her. Maybe one day it will be different, but for now, it's an empty tank and I have no desire to even fake it.

Yes you do have it in you. I understand you can't be cruel, but you still stop long enough to consider feeding into her manipulations. Just asking you to consider what you really feel and don't try to talk yourself in or out of anything. Your actions can reflect what you want, but do try to sort out your feelings. Those 2 quotes are a bit opposite of each other.

WT

[steady]

Hi Whiskey. I've missed you and have sometimes clicked on your name to see if you've posted recently.You are one of the people here who taught me a lot and whose steadiness I often clung to.

How is everything? Still in school?

I'm not really sure I understand what a friend dying has to do with the well being of your kids unless death was rolling across your state and she wanted to warn you. Yeah, I'm being a smartass - clearly a sympathy text and you were very kind.

And I wouldn't think it were OM, could be one of his parents. Do you think she'd be able to function if it were him? I hardly think she'd lean on you.

At first I thought maybe she had a dream that something happened to the kids while napping or something. I've seen that happen to people. But you're right, it has nothing to do with the kids. I read it as a sympathy text and I didn't bite into it. She didn't even have to text what she did. Could have just said, I was just wanting to check up on them or something to that effect. That's why I try to now wait before I answer any text messages unless they're straight yes/no or clear answers.

Oh, and I love the smartass comment...it made me laugh. I pictured a big dark cloud rolling over my town. lol I imagine she was drinking and got stupid thought running through the brain.

(My first thought was to text back something like, Why are you telling me this? That's your personal life and has nothing to do with mine, or something similar to that. But I just can't be cruel - and that's a good thing)

I just don't have it in me. She managed to crush all of it by her behavior this past 2 and a half years. Just blank...nothing there to offer her. Maybe one day it will be different, but for now, it's an empty tank and I have no desire to even fake it.

Yes you do have it in you. I understand you can't be cruel, but you still stop long enough to consider feeding into her manipulations.

You've always seemed to have the knack of tying my brain into a knot with a few sentences. Most of the time I'm not at a loss for following the bouncing balls but you always leave me a little room to have to stretch my brain.

I'll take a shot. I should have written I have it in me to be cruel but I don't want to be like that concerning throwing a jab or two in there and being cruel probably didn't only because of the fact I'm in this court battle and doing something like that would reflect poorly on me. (I think that's more honest and genuine than the part with the strikethrough) That was my initial reaction. So that shows there's anger and a desire to hit back still sitting in me. I've acknowledged that and know in time that will continue to dissipate.

The comment 'I just don't have it in me' is referring to me being sympathetic or extending myself to her. That's the part I meant. Yeah, I did stop long enough to almost fall into the trap of manipulation. But the good thing about it is I stopped and saw it for what I thought it was...just a manipulation. The potential of getting pulled in is all about me and has nothing to do with her.

It's a pattern I've been working on pulling out of and I've come a long way in that regard. (No More Mister Nice Guy stuff)

Just asking you to consider what you really feel and don't try to talk yourself in or out of anything. Your actions can reflect what you want, but do try to sort out your feelings. Those 2 quotes are a bit opposite of each other.

Now this is the bounding ball I didn't follow.

I understand my first quote was the move toward falling into the manipulation, coming from anger/resentment due to her reprehensible behavior toward me. The second quote is my discovery of no desire to sympathize her empathize with her. I would have ignored the text completely if it weren't about my kids.

Please enlighten me a bit further. I always love your input.

Thanks for coming by WT. It's been a while and it's nice to see you.

[whiskey.tango]

Steady,

You're making me feel all warm and fuzzy.

They're fine. Did something happen?

This is where you took the bait. She asked about the kids. You know they are OK because they are with you. Then you asked her 'what's wrong'. You took the bait. Maybe a response to shut her down could be - "the kids are fine, we're having fun. Thanks for checking in".

Why did you ask if something happened? If it's her personal life, don't ask. You don't have it in you to continue the bullchit she's tossed you over the last 2 years, don't encourage it. If you were curious, then ask yourself, why am I curious about her life?

That's what I'm talking about. You would have saved a lot of brain power. If you think by encouraging further conversation you'll get more insight about what she's thinking, she's proved over and over again that she will blindside you and she will lie. So, really, outside of conversations about your kids, nothing else matters.

Does that make sense?
WT

[steady]

Steady,

You're making me feel all warm and fuzzy.

They're fine. Did something happen?

This is where you took the bait. She asked about the kids. You know they are OK because they are with you. Then you asked her 'what's wrong'. You took the bait. Maybe a response to shut her down could be - "the kids are fine, we're having fun. Thanks for checking in".

Why did you ask if something happened? If it's her personal life, don't ask. You don't have it in you to continue the bullchit she's tossed you over the last 2 years, don't encourage it. If you were curious, then ask yourself, why am I curious about her life?

That's what I'm talking about. You would have saved a lot of brain power. If you think by encouraging further conversation you'll get more insight about what she's thinking, she's proved over and over again that she will blindside you and she will lie. So, really, outside of conversations about your kids, nothing else matters.

Does that make sense?
WT

Crystal clear. I guess I should have elaborated a bit more where the 'why did something happen?' question arose from. She's been bending over backwards trying to find, trap me in, fabricate, etc, reasons why I am an 'unfit' parent and the kids should be with her most of the time.

The first thing I did when I saw the text was to check the house and my cell phone. Sometimes the kids will get into some trouble with her when they're with her then they'll call me. So my first inclination was maybe one of them dialed her number. They were both playing so there wasn't anything that would have prompted them to call her. No phone calls out to her on either phone.

It was more of a curious about where she was coming from as far as the kids 'not being ok'. Maybe something in school. A phone call from a teacher, etc...

That's more of where the question generated from than a curiosity of her personal life. I've gotten to the point where the less I know the better. Of course my kids talk and that's how I found out she spent a few days with OM and got a hotel with him when I was in Colorado.

In her ignorance she talks to the kids about this stuff when it's unnecessary. In the end it becomes her undoing because it's all documented and I'll give it to the psychologist when I have to meet with him. We'll probably have to go for a follow up since she's making a big fuss about the kids not being ok with the custody schedule we're doing.

The only poking around I'm doing is to collect some evidence about OM strictly for the reason she has brought the kids around him a few times already. From a D standpoint or my own knowing it doesn't mean anything, but as far as her making poor decisions that affect the kids it has an impact.

Enough about me...

So what are you going to do with the warm and fuzzy feeling?

How are things with you? Still in school? Come on now, don't hold out - give me the scoop on what you've been up to and how you're doing besides stalking me from afar...lol.

[whiskey.tango]

Well you know that dynamic better than anyone else. I would hope if it were regarding an issue with the kids she would text 'we need to talk about the kids'. Her text sounded like a general well-being - which I understand in your situation could have been she dropped some sort of bomb on the little souls and wanted to know if they were dealing with it. I do understand why you're hesitant to let an out of the blue text like that go without questioning.

I'm a snooper, so you won't get beatings from me that you're investigating OM. I am very against dating while separated especially when there's children involved. Let me clarify that - involving the children with who their dating. But that's just me. My snooping gave me closure and allowed me to move forward quickly. To me, it's a reality check - even if the other person is batchitt crazy, doesn't matter. Actions speak louder than words.

I'm savoring the warm and fuzzy! I needed one today!

Still in school (switched schools actually and this one is way more cool), hopefully 1.5-2 more years and I'll be done. Old, but done. Just in time for a career change which I am really looking forward to.

Other than that, life is very, very good to me. No R's but right now I am grateful for the time to be present in my own life without distraction. Really, it is awesome.

I stalk you, so what? Someone has to keep an eye on you!
WT

[steady]

WT I wanted to tell you about this. A while back you were talking about a book you were reading in school and you said this to me:

"Treat people the way they deserve to be treated"

It took a while to digest that in a way that made sense to me. It was in direct conflict with a paradigm I had been living. It literally took months before the light went off and the two were integrated into one. Once that happened it was an epiphany for me. The two quotes below explain how I got rid of the dissonance those two idea created.

I can't tell you what a profound impact that had on me. It literally changed me in a way that I can't say enough about. It gave me the freedom to set boundaries and start a life where I have discovered my freedom. I even quoted you a few times in response on some other people's threads.

Here's one of them:

You know I used to think like this - treat people the way I want to treat them regardless of their actions toward me. That usually meant treating them with kindness regardless of their behavior toward me.

Then one day Whiskey Tango posted on my thread - treat people the way they DESERVE to be treated. Hmmm...that was a new one for me. Wow! I can draw boundaries.

Do you need to be a di#k toward her? No.

Do you want to be her friend CD? I'm talking about now, not in some imagined future. Is she being rude to you? Filter out those couple 'warm friendly' communications and what are you left with? A giant pile of what?

Not texting her back about personal stuff is not rude and cold unless that's why you're doing it. If you're doing it to somehow 'get back at her' for what's she's done to you then you're wasting your breathe.

Now if you do it because you have drawn a BOUNDARY that says you will not allow people to treat you the way she is treating you, then what's wrong with that?

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And again here: (I changed the color because I hate that it puts the quoted text in a different window that has to be scrolled in order to read - I like to print these threads out in hard copy)

Quote = Steady from CD's thread
A small 2x4 swing here. A few months ago, right after my W did some vindictive things, and basically told me she did not want me to text or email her anything except concerning the kids. Also after she said she was just going to lie to me about her personal life...lol.

I get a text one night -

W- "Great news. I got out of jury duty. They settled the case"

Me (after about 10 mins) - I think you meant to send that text to someone else.

W - No. Just wanted to let you know what was going on.

Me - Well that's your personal life. I don't need to know anything about your personal life.

Let me say this. If I allow her to behave the way she is toward me and I keep silent then I am silently telling her it's ok to treat me like a piece of sh*t and I'll just stand here with a smile on my face. You know, I did that throughout my marriage so I wouldn't make waves. I did for a year after the bomb...she totally lost respect for me because I didn't make boundaries and enforce them. More importantly I lost my self respect and my dignity. When I began standing up for myself that's when I got on my path to reclaim all of that and my power. I got respect back for myself.

If this person was my friend instead of my W would I tolerate this behavior? Nope. Eventually our spouses didn't and then they took that opportunity to snatch up the power, then use it against us. As time went on, she abused more and more of that power because I didn't say anything.

The viciousness grew. It's the same as a child. If you don't draw the boundary and enforce it, they will push you further and further.

CD, did you do exactly as you were feeling at the moment? Were you being authentically you or did you act in a way in which you hoped she would like you more?

Do you want this woman as a friend? I mean really? I know I don't want a friend who is treating me like my W is. She's lying and fabricating things about me. Then taking these lies and slandering me to other people.

I talked to my neighbor (female) today. My W hangs out with her also. Our kids play together all the time. A few weeks back I approached her and told her I know my W likes to build a team so I'm sure she talked to you about what's going on. I explained that the majority of what she is saying is not true and a the past stuff is a re-write of history. We had a long discussion about it.

Tonight when I dropped off her kids she asked me how Monday went. I told her. We got to talking more. She looked at me and said, "I'll tell you this. I've noticed what you've been talking to me about." I asked if she could be a little more specific. She said since we talked last and she's gotten to know my W even more, and she sees the behaviors I talked about.

It felt great. I was vindicated to some extent. I thanked her validating it.

I used to treat people the way I wanted to be treated. Some people will take that and walk all over you. That's what my W did and I just took it. Then Whiskey Tango posted on my thread and said, "You treat people the way they deserve to be treated."

I'll yield and give way. I'll still give people the benefit of the doubt. But now my foot goes down a lot earlier in the process. These are the boundaries.

Do I love my children. Unconditionally. And I tell them all the time - "I always love you. I may not like your behavior but I always love you and that will never change." I will not accept inappropriate or hurtful behavior just because I love them unconditionally. You can love your adult child unconditionally, and at the same time kick them out of the house. Or cut off support. These are boundaries drawn from unconditional love. They are not mutually exclusive.

I love them unconditionally, but I have boundaries. I can have those boundaries and still love them. I love my W. I hate her behavior. It's nauseating to me. I get nauseated in her presence. I love her - but I don't like her current personality.

Do I think you did the right thing CD. Yeah I do. Maybe she needs some shots across the bow.

If she was a total stranger, would you accept her behavior?

My friend J, who was a great friend of mine, used to call me up drunk and sit there and whine and complain about his life and his helplessness. I must have spent hundreds of hours on the phone repeating the same conversations, the same advice, the same understanding over and over.

Two months ago he called me again. He was drunk. I called him on it. He denied it. I gave him three more shots to come clean. I blasted him. He hung up on me.

I sent a text telling him I love him as my friend. I always will. I told him not to call me or contact me any more unless he gets sober. I told him when he's ready to stop behaving like a child and he wants help to improve and get his life straight to call me and I will be more than happy to help him.

Haven't heard from him since. This was a healthy boundary for me. He was sucking me dry.

CD only you can draw your own boundaries with your W. Do you want to have chit chat texts like the one she sent or not? I mean... Do YOU want it? Not what she wants or she needs or what will make you look more favorably to her.

What do you want? When you figure that out, then you can draw your boundaries around it. It will shift and change...then you merely redraw your boundaries.

One day I may want to be friends with my W. That day is not today. Her actions are way over the top destructive to me. It's a poison I don't need in my life. I don't want someone in my life who continues to treat me the way she is. Knowing that, I draw my boundary - She's not my friend. I won't talk to her as a friend. She's someone I co-parent with therefore I only communicate with her about the kids.

My boundary. It's healthy for me and I don't care what it does to her. She's an adult, she is responsible for her own reactions.

You can't live trying to protect people.

--------------------------------------------------

I put them in there to show you how far I came just from that one statement you made. And it's still affecting me to this day! Creating even more changes and more freedom for me.

It's amazing how a single sentence you put out there, could have such a large impact on an individual's life.

So thanks WT.

You are the bomb, the sugarsmack, the shiatz!

Those are solid warm and fuzzies.

[steady]

Well you know that dynamic better than anyone else. I would hope if it were regarding an issue with the kids she would text 'we need to talk about the kids'. Her text sounded like a general well-being - which I understand in your situation could have been she dropped some sort of bomb on the little souls and wanted to know if they were dealing with it. I do understand why you're hesitant to let an out of the blue text like that go without questioning.

Well her constant fault finding has me on my toes sometimes. But I'm getting much better at not giving a shite. I'll father them the way I father them. They're actually thriving with me, in my opinion, as I give them a lot of room to be kids.

I'm a snooper, so you won't get beatings from me that you're investigating OM. I am very against dating while separated especially when there's children involved. Let me clarify that - involving the children with who their dating. But that's just me. My snooping gave me closure and allowed me to move forward quickly. To me, it's a reality check - even if the other person is batchitt crazy, doesn't matter. Actions speak louder than words.

Her and I even talked about how that clause should be in any agreement. I mean come on, the whole thing is still in flux and you're gonna bring someone into the picture with the kids? Here today, gone tomorrow. I don't care how 'careful' they can be around the kids. All it takes is for one of them to come around the corner at the wrong time.

The only snooping I've done at all in months has been for legal stuff. Believe me, I find some gold once in a while.

I'm savoring the warm and fuzzy! I needed one today!

Yeah...I could use a warm and fuzzy myself.

Still in school (switched schools actually and this one is way more cool), hopefully 1.5-2 more years and I'll be done. Old, but done. Just in time for a career change which I am really looking forward to.

I've changed careers about 5 or six times now. I got the paperwork to apply for the Master's Degree I'd like to get. They only accept incoming in the fall but I need to have it all in by February. I was hoping to have some resolution to see where I'm going to land financially but it looks like that isn't going to happen. I'll push it through anyway and see what the financial aid/loans look like.

lol @ old. I'll be around 50 or so when I finish if I can get into the program next fall. I figure about 5 years part time.

There are people who do it much later than that. You're among a small minority who actually take the jump to do it - most people just write off the desire to fear or age or some other nonsense.

Other than that, life is very, very good to me. No R's but right now I am grateful for the time to be present in my own life without distraction. Really, it is awesome.

Relationship...lol. I have no desire. Nada. Zip. Zilch. It's like that whole section of me is in sleep mode. It's fine though. I'm at a point where I really need to be on my own and do some more discovery.

I'm glad you're doing well. There's not many still around here that followed my sitch. I talk to Tim once in a while, and haven't seen Tennessee Mike in a long while.

I stalk you, so what? Someone has to keep an eye on you!
WT

I kinda like the stalking...it's exciting and mysterious. I never know when you're going to pop out in front of me.

[steady]

Thought I'd drop this here. Can't see it enough times as a reminder:

Many lack the tools in how to deal with the bumps and see running as the answer to escape their pain.

Changing seats on the titanic.

They have to learn that they are the only ones responsible for their own happiness. It doesn't come from someone else, it comes from within.

This is a big one. I know my W thinks I am the problem and I would guess a lot of WAS's feel that same way about their LBS. If I get rid of the problem (LBS) then my problems will be solved. I'll find someone who isn't a 'problem' for me. Unfortunately wherever they go there they are. The same patterns, the same cycles only the scenery changes.

They have to be left to their journey without interference as it is the only way they will ever have a chance to resolve their issues.

They have to do this by themselves. We are the last people they want to point out the obvious. They'll just resent us more - I have learned this first hand in my sitch.

You let them go to walk their path. Where they end up is anyone's guess.

Just remember, their past and present behavior doesn't equal their future behavior. If it was like that, none of us would be here.

We got the epiphany, you can't guess if they will or won't. Absolutely impossible. They thought we would never change so they were wrong.

CD, I've followed you from the beginning. You're a quick study and like me, you'll dig until you're satisfied that you have the answers for yourself. IMO there's nothing wrong with that as long as you're not obsessed and living your life. Sounds as if you're doing just that. You're going to be better than OK no matter how your sitch turns out.

Continue to take care of you and your beautiful D.

Welcome to the MLC board.

SA

CD, I think you're searching for an answer you won't ever get. I believe it's just not possible because there are basically an infinite amount of variables.

It boils down to this - they are doing what they are doing and it doesn't matter why. Knowing why doesn't change anything. Sure, you see their issues and what those issues did. But it makes no difference except if they want to return. Then you have solid things you both need to work on.

You do the work on yourself. They walk their path - either their paths cross ours again or it doesn't. There are many people who divorce and stay separate for the rest of their lives, and there are many who split/divorce and end up reconciling later on after they both go through the growth they need to go through, or not.

I have boundaries set in my mind if that day ever comes for me. I don't expect it either way, so I keep moving forward on my path. I have no clue how the future will unfold. But I am responsible for me, and my W is responsible for herself. Period.