I tried, I changed, but still am getting divorced!

[gatsby11]

I love that you guys are hiking tomorrow. That's really great; it will be so fun. It will be a great time to "live in the moment"!

I hear you on the sadness surrounding S's birthday. It is sad.

The custody class sounds really interesting. I'm interested to hear more about what you learn.

[courageous wife]

Hey Nm!

You ARE and always will be S's mother!

Try not to analyze your H's thoughts...harder than heck I know!

I have not taken my co-parenting class yet...don't think H has either...I suppose I will sign up as soon as a court date is set and who knows when that will be..."I" am not pushing it!

Enjoy your hike with S!!! Will you post birthday pics on the alt? I want to see his cake face!

[ClingingToHope]

I already took mine and when it was over I thought STBXW and I were going to take different messages out of it.

In my class, the statistics showed that 100 percent of kids are damaged in a divorce. If co-parenting goes well then about 33 percent don't develop serious issues.

That's it. A 1-in-3 chance you won't really screw up your kids but none go through unscathed. That's the message I took.

I'm guessing STBXW will grab that 1-in-3 chance as a lifeline and push for more and more conversation between us. The class said the co-parents should talk twice a week.

That does make sense and I hope some day to be able to do that. But right now I'd rather not talk to her twice a month.

I'm guessing STBXW will quote the "we should be talking twice a week" part of the class when I'm not answering my phone when she calls during work.

Overall, it was very, very, very depressing.

I'm seeing the issues develop in D11. She spent last week with her best friend instead of camp. It was a great week. But the parents are still together so they have the advantages of an intact family -- family vacations, the latest tech gadgets, no problems signing up and getting to musical lessons.

D11 said her friend has everything she wants.

Some day, years down the road, STBXW is going to have some serious questions to answer from D11.

[ImprovedRomeo]

That is depressing...but no shocking revalations here.

NM, thank you for sharing the info and experience.

[newmama]

Thank you, CW-- I will get back on track! Yes, I will post those pics soon!

You know, C2H, I was thinking today that people who didn't want the divorce are going to state the stark reality (and if anyone is skeptical, read "The Legacy of Divorce" which is a 25 year longitudinal study on children of divorce. It follows them into adulthood. It is super depressing.).

But those who want the divorce will cling to the tidbits about the kids adjusting fine and push us to be happy and willing, etc.
blech!!!!

I have several tidbits to share but will post them in chunks. First...stbxh's car "sprang a leak" so he won't be able to see S tomorrow evening. He asked if he could switch to Fri. It is no problem, actually, so I said sure. But I did ask "are you getting a rental?" because he could still pick up S in a rental car. He said they ran out.

Well, how "respectful" of him...I KNOW OW has a car! He could have picked up S in her car. But he isn't.

[newmama]

Next tidbit...was telling my friend C about the custody class and expressing how I am just so upset that S has an increased risk for divorce, that he will have a bizarre perspective on marriage since he will have 2 homes and split half the week (although I truly want him to have the best scenario for establishing good relationships with me and his dad...and that means 50/50...but it is STILL like a weird social experiment to me...)

C said "actually, it is pretty common, unfortunately. I teach for upper middle class families and I have lots of students in this scenario. They seem fine."

Well this pissed me off! Not that I want the kids to NOT be fine--but that she (and everyone else I talk to IRL) all say "oh, he won't know any different...he has a loving mom and dad...don't worry." Well hey--who needs marriage then? Wtf? I guess we can all just sleep around and go from person to person...because
"the kids will be fine!"

So I told her calmly (remember, I save the ranting for my thread!) "C, I have to be honest- it upsets me that you and others downplay the depressing aspect of this situation for the kids. I just want someone to agree "YES. IT IS TERRIBLE and SAD that your son has to grow up like this."

So she said that she does feel that way, but since I don't have a choice and neither does S, (meaning if I want him to have equal access to his dad AND I DO!) then I should try to make the most of it or do the best I can under the circumstances.

I told her I agree, that I am not about to tell S "poor you. If your dad hadn't have been so immature and horny, we would all be a happy family under one roof." NO! (lol!) I just feel alone when others tell me "he'll be fiiiiine. no biggee!"

But I am comforted that, unfortunately, S will have other classmates and friends in the same sitch. I hope he will get to see an example of a healthy 2nd marriage in my house. I hope I will be able to stay married and that my 2nd H won't divorce me.

Then she started to go off and point out "signs" that stbxh was not healthy or a good choice for me to marry. Hmmm....wasn't it 6 months ago when she said she had no inkling or any indication that he was capable of cheating? She started to ask if I did this, or if I said that... (YES!!! I told her! and I was being honest!!!!) and then I started to feel like she was overstepping bounds...asking things that were too personal...and she said

"it's not your fault you married a sociopath."

What the....?????!!!!! I said "ok. wait. He is NOT a sociopath! I was married to him, you weren't. You know what? I'm not ready to tear him apart yet. Maybe in a few months (or never!). I know you don't like it when I cut you off and ask you not to speak but I am JUST STARTING this process. I hope I didn't make you mad! Do you understand?"

she was mad, but she said yes, she understood.

[newmama]

OK tidbit #3.

Went to go hiking, but we ended up eating lunch at the place, going swimming at the water hole, the kids fell asleep, we went for icecream and we never made it to a waterfall! But I will go back again this summer.

So my MARRIED friend, R, confided that she thinks she could understand how stbxh started his A with OW. She explained that she started carpooling with a fellow student in her MBA class. She said that
she has carpooled with a male student previously, but all they talked about was the class. THIS man wanted to talk about other stuff. She said they hadn't started talking too much yet about personal things but that she realized he had been looking at her in class and said some things that made her think "was he hitting on me?" She said she didn't think he could find her attractive since she is very overweight. She said he was married with 2 kids and was semi-religious. He wouldn't go there....would he? She wouldn't because she can see how the slippery slope comes about but that ultimately you have to CHOOSE to CHEAT. (thank God she gets it!)

I am still concerned. I did tell her that I was pleased that she was able to tell me, considering what she knows that I have been through, and that she is being honest. I asked her when/if she would tell her H that she has developed a crush on this guy. She said she wouldn't tell him because it wasn't necessary. It wasn't likely to be mutual and she wasn't going to do anything!

THEN she said "hypothetically, where would the opportunity be?" I told her people can always make an opportunity and take advantage of the trust their spouses have in them. She said she wouldn't do anything anyway because it is unrealistic that it would last and I reminded her "AND YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO DESTROY HIS FAMILY, RIGHT? You have seen the pain that this has caused me and S! well at least me...AND YOU ARE MARRIED TO YOUR H for LIFE and made a commitment"

I admit that I told her that yes, it is realistic to think he could go for her (thinking to myself that many of us have wondered how our spouses would go for someone who looked or acted the way our OPs do. Therefore, so what if his wife was skinny and short, he might be into a tall, beautiful but very overweight red head with big boobs)

and that if she really wanted to be serious about not getting further carried away with her crush, then she should consider not carpooling with him anymore.

And I realized that my friend "trusts herself" and "knows" she wouldn't do anything....so there's a chance that she isn't "hearing me."

Well I hope she remembers what I said about destroying a family because I was the one who had to bring that up--she wasn't even thinking of them!! Just her and him...just the ego boost of someone finding her attractive.

We talked about how the initial romance in marriage fades and then you have to meet each other's love languages and make an effort to do new things together.She lit up and told me how great her H was. But also told me how low her self esteem was.

My friend is a kind, super smart, loving, helpful person! If she is thinking of this, then see? We are all vulnerable!

[awest1217]

About the custody and kids, I teach high school and I see how it affects the students. Many of the students from split homes do not do as well in school, especially if it is split 50/50 and the parents do not work together because then the child does not do their work or just learn to play their parents against one another. I hear a lot "I am going to just go live with my dad/mom because my dad/mom won't let me do..." I also see that a lot of these students pour themselves into relationships early in high school which is not good. Many times they learn to be lazy and helpless because no one really wants to push them to achieve higher and if one parent begins to discipline and work hard to help the child, the child rebels and just leaves for the other parent, and continually goes back and forth, which causes even more problems.

Sometimes I don't think you see the damage until the children start building relationships of their own. Either the idea that they are overly drawn to having improper relationships or that they can't commit shows up then. Sometimes when children are younger it can almost be cool because they get double everything. I know if H and I were together we would get S one big gift as his parents, but now he will get one big gift from me and one from H. They look at the immediate stuff.

The one thing that helps is that the parents are in constant contact about the child. Even in D, if the parents are both strongly involved, then the child does better. Or if it isn't 50/50 and the parent with full or sole custody remarries and sets up a good family. Then the child does much better. At least from what I have seen in high school.

[gatsby11]

Your title changed. It's just 'divor'!

About tidbit #3, yeah slippery slope for sure. I don't know if most people have this or not, but I totally had a crush on someone a few years ago from work. Nothing happened at all. But it was dangerous, and I regret it. I don't know what I could have done differently (get a new job?) but this person turned out to be a player and my interest turned to disdain after a while. (Okay, a year and a half, I'll be honest.)

I told WH about it. I think it actually plays into our sitch now. I think it created some insecurity in him that I didn't mean. I wanted WH as much as I do now and as much as I ever have. It was just an 'ego boost' as you say NM.

If we R, it will be something I bring up. Even if we don't, it may be a last resort for me before divorce. Bringing up this crush of mine and really apologizing for any damage it may have caused.

Sigh.

In saying that I don't know what I could have done differently, I do know. I should have focused on romancing WH. And I don't think I did. Regrets!

[BobbiJo]

I hear you guys. I am one who would never cheat, especially now that I have gone through this. However I did cheat in college. Yeah sure, it doesn't 'count' because we were dating, not married, which is a different level of commitment, but still, it did count! Sometimes I wonder in some stupid supersitious way if his cheating on me now is some cosmic payback...but I know really, you can't compare being 19 in college to being 30, married with kids.

But yeah, I see how it can happen. You hang out with a coworker or classmate, you have some 'sparks', you joke, laugh, they make you feel good about yourself, and there is a connection. The thing is you can choose to feed that connection or starve it. People who think they can 'handle it' are usually fooling themselves....