Today D13 has the typical teenager's busy, over-scheduled life and she's really happy about it. Immediately after school, there's Yearbook committee (often she's the only one who shows up for it, so she has some real ownership) until 4 pm, and then at 5 she has volleyball tryouts. An hour in-between that she needs to be elsewhere because it's not ok with school to hang out unsupervised there. Since it's my evening at the 2nd job, I asked xH if he could pick her up at 4 and return her at 5; there's a McDonald's just down the street they could go grab a snack at. And I asked him this because when I was explaining her busy schedule for this week and expressing concern that his typical visitation schedule might not work, he said he'd be "happy to get her to activities and pick her up as needed." So after a bit of arguing, he agreed to do that. But when I talked with D13 at bedtime last night (she calls to say goodnite when she's at her dad's) she told me that he told her to go and hang out in the gym, or in the locker room if anyone questioned her. He's not going to pick her up and return her. And of course, he wasn't going to tell me that either.
This reminds me of this time last year, when D13 first met OW at a dinner get-together and was distraught about it--he didn't bother to prepare her for that, or even warn her it was happening. I confronted him angrily, and said that, per our prelim agreement she was NOT to be with OW until at least a year after he left, and I was holding him to that. After first telling me it was none of my business what D13 did when she was with him (hmmm, last I checked my daughter IS my business) he agreed to avoid contact between them. Then I found out in July--7 months later--that D had been instructed to keep it a secret and she and OW and family were together on a regular basis. xH completely disregarded my concerns and lied about it. (But then, we're all objects to him anyway.) He can't be trusted to prioritize D's needs, nor to be honest with me. Yeah, this is great co-parenting.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
Hi hoosier...I was just catching up on your thread.
I will comment a about the situation your D faces, with some of my personal history.
My father, while not a narcissist, was mentally ill. None of us who loved him really understood the depths of his illness while he was alive. It wasn't until after his death and seeing all of his life laid out there that we could really comprehend the total truth, which was basically this: although he was sometimes cruel and downright batty, he never really intended to hurt any of us...it was his illness that caused him to behave this way. And yet - the final lesson of it all was that, innocent of direct intention or not, we all had to protect ourselves from him in our own ways. Because even though he had a true "excuse" for his strange behavior, it still could have and did harm us all if we stayed too close in his path. There was nothing we could have done to help him with his illness, and so we all ended up doing what was best for ourselves, which was to distance ourselves from him. He died of brain cancer at age 60.
So the part of my story that relates to your D, which will not really be good advice or anything very encouraging...but it will be a reality check for you and later, for her...
My parents were divorced when I was 6 (not due to affairs) and when I was 10 my father got remarried to a very horrible step-mother. I don't want to say she was a horrible woman, because in fact I don't know her well enough to say that. But definitely she was a horrible step-mother. She was also a horrible wife. She was 30 years old when she met my father and he was her FIFTH husband.
She was jealous of my relationship with my father and she was very spiteful and immature. She did many things to try to damage my brother and I, in little weird, cruel ways.
She and my father did a lot of binge drinking, and my brother and I saw and heard some very wild, disturbing things during those episodes.
My father had always tried to get custody of us from my mother, and finally when we were in our early teens, we agreed willingly to live with him...before that age my mother would never have allowed this...but finally by then, she knew we had to see for ourselves what our father really was inside...how he truly behaves...how strange he really is. The only way to do this was by living with him, and by now, he was remarried, so we lived with the step-mother, too.
Their relationship was so volatile and my step-mother was so mean to us, that soon enough, my brother fled the coup and ran back to my mother's house. I stayed on for a few more months at my fathers, returned home to my mom's for a while, but then returned to live with my father and step-mother again for the last time when I was 14. By then my brother had graduated high school and was living with friends. He begged me not to go live with them again as he knew I would regret it. But at the time, it suited my wishes to live in the town my father lived in so I ignored my brother.
Within only about 6 months of living with my father and step-mother, I was losing my mind. She was so horrible to me and he just allowed it. I could not really understand what I was witnessing, as my father had always made a lot of noise about my mother's new husband - my step-father - and how I should "never listen to that idiot as he is not even related to you". Seemed though that when he himself remarried, it didn't matter what we told him about how she treated us, he would always take her side.
Finally there was a huge blow up and fight between my father and I about her. In this fight I finally blurted out how I felt very betrayed by how he would always take her side and never stand up for me. What he said to me at that time will never leave my memory. He told me that he "had to take her side because she is his wife, and that I will eventually grow up and move away, but she would be his wife forever". Therefore, he needed to align himself with her so that his own future would be happier, and he didn't really care about my current happiness.
Now...in a perfect world, of course you would stand up to your child and tell them that you have to side with your spouse...but this was not a perfect world. The woman was abusive to us and he knew it, and he was making these statements knowing that there would never be any chance of his wife changing her abusive nature.
I could not believe my ears, because again, he had made so many dispariging remarks about my step-father over the years. It shook me to my core and I moved back to my mother's house shortly after that.
And then....within 1 year of my moving back to mom's, my father and step-mother were divorced. (She has later had two husbands after him, making it SEVEN husbands total). So I had to chuckle to myself, "yeah right dad, I'll grow up and move away and SHE will be your wife FOREVER???? Uh huh. And NOW who is still in your life forever, ME, and who is gone forever? HER. Chyuh."
But here's the point for you and your daughter...I really HAD to learn this lesson directly from his own mouth and his own actions. I had to see him for who he really was, not the Disneyland weekend Superdad I had believed him to be when I was younger and before he remarried. It hurt me immensely, but it also helped me in my future with him. It helped me to know for sure who he was and that he would throw me under the bus. I had to grow up and realize that a mentally ill person can really very much love you...and still be a very dangerous person to you if you don't keep your boundaries in place.
I hated him for a while...but later I understood him. I forgave him for everything, but remained distant enough so that he couldn't hurt me again. I loved him again finally, but never fully trusted him with my emotional feelings.
I was so glad to know who he truly was at a young age, so that I wouldn't have been disillusioned by the truth later as an adult. Yes it hurt. Another life lesson is that people who love us do hurt us, and I was glad for that lesson too as it helped me in numerous situations as an adult.
Finally now it doesn't hurt anymore, and I can really understand that his illness had nothing to do with me. No one can guarantee your daughter will come to that conclusion, but it is likely she will. Try very hard not to worry that she will grow up with too many issues, because she will likely grow up very smart and kind, but very wise to the ways people can be. She will know he loves her, but that he will throw her under the bus for OW. This hurts, of course, but since it is her reality, it is best for her to see it directly.
I do wish I had someone I could have vented to when I was her age about my father's behavior. Unfortunately, my entire family had also been hurt by him so they all could say nothing other than "well yep, that's your dad, he's done it to us, too". I wish I had someone outside my family who would have simply listened to me talk about it and hear the hurt in my voice, say "there there, poor dear" and then I could have at least felt justified in my feelings. I hope your D at least has something along those lines. I got by fine without counseling (which would come later), but simply a kind adult ear and shoulder would have really helped.
I hope my story helps you in some small way. Keep updating us. It takes a long long time, but eventually, everything smoothes out and you look backward and see your life behind you...and it doesn't look as bad as it did while you were climbing up the hill.
DQ--thank you so much for sharing your story in such a thoughtful way. It's immensely helpful to hear from people who have been through this, either as children themselves or as parents helping their children through the nonsense. I'd so like to hear more if anyone is open to sharing!
Somewhere earlier in the thread I discussed my own history with this--my mom left my dad for an abusive alchoholic when I was 10, handled it very selfishly. My dad died suddenly when I was 11, and throughout my adolescence I dealt with the cycle of abuse and my mother's rejection and her choice of this jerk over me, putting both of our lives in danger at times (I had a skull fracture and rib fractures show up on x-rays as an adult from incidents that remained untreated secrets as a child). And all thru it, my mom tried to force a relationship between me and the guy, and with his family. So I know what my daughter feels (altho this situation doesn't have physical abuse related to it) and I know it's psychologically harmful for xH to manage this as he has been. But I digress....
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Try very hard not to worry that she will grow up with too many issues, because she will likely grow up very smart and kind, but very wise to the ways people can be. She will know he loves her, but that he will throw her under the bus for OW. This hurts, of course, but since it is her reality, it is best for her to see it directly.
So true. D13 (soon to be D14) is very smart and kind. And learning quickly these lessons you mention. We hate to see our children have to deal with this for sure, but you're right, it is a learning experience.
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I do wish I had someone I could have vented to when I was her age about my father's behavior. Unfortunately, my entire family had also been hurt by him so they all could say nothing other than "well yep, that's your dad, he's done it to us, too". I wish I had someone outside my family who would have simply listened to me talk about it and hear the hurt in my voice, say "there there, poor dear" and then I could have at least felt justified in my feelings. I hope your D at least has something along those lines. I got by fine without counseling (which would come later), but simply a kind adult ear and shoulder would have really helped.
Yes--I realize in looking back that I felt more empowered to set and enforce boundaries when I had a chance to vent (altho those opportunities were rare, they did exist) and felt as if someone cared. Hopefully I will continue to be a safe place for D13 to vent, and am providing her support from wise and healthy adults. She has expressed several times that she finds it very comforting and reassuring to be able to talk (a little) and just be around people who know her situation and care about her, and who don't feel compelled to excuse her father for his poor and painful choices. There's been so much hypocrisy and denial among family and former friends that it seems almost crazy-making at times--as if our reality is not real but the reality as defined by xH is. So having adults who care, are supportive, and validate her experience and feelings is very helpful, as you said.
I'm already finding that I can look back at the past couple of years and not feel pain all the time. Sure, I have my moments--this was a huge betrayal, after all--but I'm finally able to separate my feelings and also acknowledge how I could have taken better care of myself throughout the marriage (and why I didn't). Moving ahead is still a slow process, but it is happening even if it's not as quickly as I'd like.
Thank you again, so very much, for sharing--and for caring enough to do so!
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
HM..is there another adult that is not related to her that your daughter could talk to? If not, perhaps getting her involved in a big brother/big sister program might be helpful...she will need a place to vent about everything and sometimes it is easier to do that when we are not afraid of hurting someone else by our venting...
Yes--both her godfather and my cousin--who's a high school teacher--have been very supportive, caring, and understanding to her. I don't have a lot of connections at the moment, but those I do have are a blessing.
My cousin, btw, isn't an actual relative. We grew up down the street from one another, he's 4 years younger, his grandparents (who raised him) were my parents' best friends; he's like a brother, but not actually related. And I think it's made him free to say things in front of me that he otherwise might not say, and she has no need to "protect" me by her response.
Last edited by hoosiermama; 01/18/1010:10 PM.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
Just wanted to jump in here and recommend a book that I'm finding REALLY helpful. It's called From Abandonment to Healing, by Susan Anderson. Every now and then we find ourselves stuck in this journey from surviving the big D to thriving again. This book lays out the emotional process in a very clear way, explores "stuckness" in each stage, and discusses how one can work thru it.
I came across this title somewhere on these boards, and if I can remember whose thread mentioned it I'd thank them personally. Since I can't recall, tho, just a general thank you going out here!
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
