I certainly don't hold you accountable for your XH's MLC. But his actions, his choices are coming from him, one of the partners in the M. It really is not a third party's fault that he left the M. HE is accountable for his choices. Not you, and not OW. As for sympathy for A partners, I don't have any myself either. My concern is that LBSs lay the blame at their feet, when the cause of the dissolution of the M lies elsewhere, and when the changes that will possibly save a marriage primarily lie elsewhere (though of course the A must end for the M to be saved), and MOST IMPORTANT, the changes that will improve the life of an LBS and result in the huge personal growth that is necessary to get someone to a happy life on the other side of all this mess lie VERY far away from placing one's problems at the feet of an A-partner, feeling victimized and powerless, and staying stuck by giving such a person power over your well-being. Thus, it is in my mind hugely unproductive and even damaging no matter where you are in this process to continue to focus on the A, on the OW, especially long after D.
As to your Ex's family, I agree, if you've had no contact with them, then they could hardly form an impression of you. As for why I formed that impression? Because in your vents here, your anger, hurt and bitterness toward your X and toward his family are clear (and certainly understandable). You indicated that in your contact with Ex's family, they either said they couldn't stay in contact or were worried about taking sides. Given you had these conversations, I assumed that you interacted with them. There really isn't any way for a person to hide the kind of pain/anger/bitterness that you feel from people who know them. So, on my assumption that you interacted with them, I concluded that they probably felt it. My mistake, though I'm not sure how they then conveyed their feelings to you.
In any case, if you really haven't interacted with them, are you sure that they are not speaking to you? Though in the long run I really think it is better to look elsewhere to build your support system, you might test things a bit. You could forward an interesting story to someone that they might like, with a "hey, I haven't turned into a Martian! Thought of you when I saw this, hope you and yours are well. Life continues to bring happy surprises to me when least expected, but I miss our chats."
Really, I can't imagine why I suggest that, as I think moving away from EX-in-laws is definitely the direction to go. I guess maybe I think even a small show of friendship from one of them would help you know that your whole life was not a sham. (Yes, I know that feeling well.)
You never know who will turn up when you look for cousins. My Dad found some long lost cousins and a whole family came to our house for a week, lol. (It didn't hurt that we lived withing driving distance of Disney I guess.)
Regarding this line: "It is YOUR opposition, your continuing insistence to making your life about XH" I'm sorry you felt it was cruel, it surely was not intended to be. A couple of things. I'm confused about your response as the quote was about your relationship with EX-in-laws. And, my point was that it is WITHIN YOUR POWER to change the dynamics to allow space for various people to have relationships with you. So, rather than feeling like a VICTIM of the abandoning Ex-in-laws, you should rather feel EMPOWERED as the person who creates the spaces around you for people to enter, or NOT. Again, I really see no reason to make space for the EX-in-laws, I was merely explaining what it would take and trying to show you that it is up to you. That is a far better feeling than feeling like a kicked dog. Now, if you make the space, they still might not come. But trust me, that is a far different feeling to have them avoid you for their own reasons rather than because you are marked all over with the D-conflict. I realize that is not a very good explanation, but hopefully you see what I mean.
"I do come to my thread to vent so that I don't make anyone in my immediate life uncomfortable, and so that I can get it out of my head and pull it together to be a good mother. It was my impression that that is one of the purposes of posting to begin with; do I need to wear a mask here as well?"
Two things:
(1) Your vents are healthy and they make it obvious how you feel. Your pain shows, your anger, your bitterness toward XH and his friend (whatever her actual status is). There is no mistaking them, precisely because you are honest here.
So, I'm not sure why you want to deny that they continue to be real forces in your life. They are there. They affect you daily. They affect your loved ones, no matter how hard you try to shield them. This is all totally understandable. You have damn good reason to feel hurt, betrayed, bitter. Your H SHOULD NOT have treated you as he did. You've experienced great loss. Your life is now very difficult, financially, emotionally, physically. Do I think you should wear a mask here? NO, OF COURSE NOT, and I nowhere suggested such a thing. On the contrary, I think you should wear less of a mask, at least with yourself, in your day to day life, so that you are more aware of how the pain/anger/bitterness are coloring your world.
(2) Given that you are honest here and we see your pain, your bitterness, your hostility, you seem to want us, or at least me, not to acknowledge them. HM, they are really hard to miss. You've come a very long way, you've made huge progress, but you aren't to the other side yet. Do you want us to ignore these things or help you with them? You can get all the cheerleaders here that you want, but these things are hurting you more than you need to hurt. They really are coloring your world and shaping the space you have for relationships. They bled all over Thanksgiving, which despite your initial defensiveness to my last post, you seemed to recognize as you very much changed your whole approach to Thanksgiving in positive ways.
So, basically here you can get posts that can make you feel good about your anger and bitterness, that sadly even encourage them as a coping mechanism (a very effective coping mechanism, but one that keeps you stuck in the long run), you can get posts that provide very important comfort and support to you through your pain; and you can get posts that try to move you forward.
I'm primarily only good at the latter and can't pretend to have any tact. But, I can assure you that I'm only trying to help you, and trust that anything that sounds cruel to you was not intended that way. Probably my intent and meaning are lost between my less-than-perfect delivery to an audience not in a place to hear the message to begin with.
So, I am very sorry to have caused you pain. Timing and delivery are everything, you know?
I hope with a bit of time and space, you'll find that something I've said turns out to be helpful rather than as hurtful as it seems now. I know in my own experience, that was true of the most important things I got from DB. I hated hearing them and thought them cruel until I was at a place where they made all the difference in the world to me and helped me to a much, much better place. Then, all of the sudden they made sense and helped me immensely.
there's a bit of a morbid fascination for me in wondering what will happen once the love chemicals wear off and these 2 profoundly self-centered people recognize each other for who they really are.
Hoozh, I just keep getting this picture of that old "The Far Side" comic in my head. You know, the one where the cows are all grazing, and suddenly one looks up and says to the others: "Wait a minute . . . this is GRASS! We've been eating GRASS!!!"
lmao!!!
Pup
wait a minute--I'm seeing cartoon as "this is GRASS! We've been smoking GRASS!"
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
Help me out -- why would you think that I don't think HM should vent here? Why would you think I support the actions of OM/OW? I really can't see where those ideas are coming from...
I do come to my thread to vent so that I don't make anyone in my immediate life uncomfortable, and so that I can get it out of my head and pull it together to be a good mother. It was my impression that that is one of the purposes of posting to begin with; do I need to wear a mask here as well?
OT, I got it from H'mama's post, above. I was agreeing with her that she should be able to vent.
And, I did not say you "support the actions of OM/OW." I was merely agreeing with Puppy that they are predators.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
I certainly don't hold you accountable for your XH's MLC. But his actions, his choices are coming from him, one of the partners in the M. It really is not a third party's fault that he left the M. HE is accountable for his choices. Not you, and not OW. As for sympathy for A partners, I don't have any myself either. My concern is that LBSs lay the blame at their feet, when the cause of the dissolution of the M lies elsewhere, and when the changes that will possibly save a marriage primarily lie elsewhere (though of course the A must end for the M to be saved), and MOST IMPORTANT, the changes that will improve the life of an LBS and result in the huge personal growth that is necessary to get someone to a happy life on the other side of all this mess lie VERY far away from placing one's problems at the feet of an A-partner, feeling victimized and powerless, and staying stuck by giving such a person power over your well-being. Thus, it is in my mind hugely unproductive and even damaging no matter where you are in this process to continue to focus on the A, on the OW, especially long after D.
As to your Ex's family, I agree, if you've had no contact with them, then they could hardly form an impression of you. As for why I formed that impression? Because in your vents here, your anger, hurt and bitterness toward your X and toward his family are clear (and certainly understandable). You indicated that in your contact with Ex's family, they either said they couldn't stay in contact or were worried about taking sides. Given you had these conversations, I assumed that you interacted with them. There really isn't any way for a person to hide the kind of pain/anger/bitterness that you feel from people who know them. So, on my assumption that you interacted with them, I concluded that they probably felt it. My mistake, though I'm not sure how they then conveyed their feelings to you.
In any case, if you really haven't interacted with them, are you sure that they are not speaking to you? Though in the long run I really think it is better to look elsewhere to build your support system, you might test things a bit. You could forward an interesting story to someone that they might like, with a "hey, I haven't turned into a Martian! Thought of you when I saw this, hope you and yours are well. Life continues to bring happy surprises to me when least expected, but I miss our chats."
Really, I can't imagine why I suggest that, as I think moving away from EX-in-laws is definitely the direction to go. I guess maybe I think even a small show of friendship from one of them would help you know that your whole life was not a sham. (Yes, I know that feeling well.)
You never know who will turn up when you look for cousins. My Dad found some long lost cousins and a whole family came to our house for a week, lol. (It didn't hurt that we lived withing driving distance of Disney I guess.)
Regarding this line: "It is YOUR opposition, your continuing insistence to making your life about XH" I'm sorry you felt it was cruel, it surely was not intended to be. A couple of things. I'm confused about your response as the quote was about your relationship with EX-in-laws. And, my point was that it is WITHIN YOUR POWER to change the dynamics to allow space for various people to have relationships with you. So, rather than feeling like a VICTIM of the abandoning Ex-in-laws, you should rather feel EMPOWERED as the person who creates the spaces around you for people to enter, or NOT. Again, I really see no reason to make space for the EX-in-laws, I was merely explaining what it would take and trying to show you that it is up to you. That is a far better feeling than feeling like a kicked dog. Now, if you make the space, they still might not come. But trust me, that is a far different feeling to have them avoid you for their own reasons rather than because you are marked all over with the D-conflict. I realize that is not a very good explanation, but hopefully you see what I mean.
"I do come to my thread to vent so that I don't make anyone in my immediate life uncomfortable, and so that I can get it out of my head and pull it together to be a good mother. It was my impression that that is one of the purposes of posting to begin with; do I need to wear a mask here as well?"
Two things:
(1) Your vents are healthy and they make it obvious how you feel. Your pain shows, your anger, your bitterness toward XH and his friend (whatever her actual status is). There is no mistaking them, precisely because you are honest here.
So, I'm not sure why you want to deny that they continue to be real forces in your life. They are there. They affect you daily. They affect your loved ones, no matter how hard you try to shield them. This is all totally understandable. You have damn good reason to feel hurt, betrayed, bitter. Your H SHOULD NOT have treated you as he did. You've experienced great loss. Your life is now very difficult, financially, emotionally, physically. Do I think you should wear a mask here? NO, OF COURSE NOT, and I nowhere suggested such a thing. On the contrary, I think you should wear less of a mask, at least with yourself, in your day to day life, so that you are more aware of how the pain/anger/bitterness are coloring your world.
(2) Given that you are honest here and we see your pain, your bitterness, your hostility, you seem to want us, or at least me, not to acknowledge them. HM, they are really hard to miss. You've come a very long way, you've made huge progress, but you aren't to the other side yet. Do you want us to ignore these things or help you with them? You can get all the cheerleaders here that you want, but these things are hurting you more than you need to hurt. They really are coloring your world and shaping the space you have for relationships. They bled all over Thanksgiving, which despite your initial defensiveness to my last post, you seemed to recognize as you very much changed your whole approach to Thanksgiving in positive ways.
So, basically here you can get posts that can make you feel good about your anger and bitterness, that sadly even encourage them as a coping mechanism (a very effective coping mechanism, but one that keeps you stuck in the long run), you can get posts that provide very important comfort and support to you through your pain; and you can get posts that try to move you forward.
I'm primarily only good at the latter and can't pretend to have any tact. But, I can assure you that I'm only trying to help you, and trust that anything that sounds cruel to you was not intended that way. Probably my intent and meaning are lost between my less-than-perfect delivery to an audience not in a place to hear the message to begin with.
So, I am very sorry to have caused you pain. Timing and delivery are everything, you know?
I hope with a bit of time and space, you'll find that something I've said turns out to be helpful rather than as hurtful as it seems now. I know in my own experience, that was true of the most important things I got from DB. I hated hearing them and thought them cruel until I was at a place where they made all the difference in the world to me and helped me to a much, much better place. Then, all of the sudden they made sense and helped me immensely.
OT,
That's a thoughtful and compassionate post. I'm sorry if I mischaracterized your point as "cruel." You and I may disagree about some things, but your intent obviously wasn't to inflict cruelty. I get very protective of Hoozh (and some others), as I know a lot about all she's been thru. Hers is a particularly painful story out of a forum from which they are legion.
I don't mind saying I hope X and OW crash and burn. HM's X didn't just have an A and dump her, he ruined her financially in the process. He continues to hurt their D. Why does she have to wish them well?!
