She must be seeing a lawyer...what now?

[Awoken]

Here's my current question: This week WAW decided to cancel on thanksgiving with us, and went to Seattle to be with her family for thanksgiving. Her sister just had a baby. We've known the due date for a long time, so this was really about her getting away. She left me home with the kids thankfully.

Before this, we had agreed that on Dec 27th, when D17 goes on a school trip, that W would go to Seattle, leaving S13 with me for the next week including New Years.

I found out on Thanksgiving morning that for the past week, W has been asking S13 to decide if he would like to stay with me or go to Seattle with her for that week. S13 has been talking with D17 and is a little bothered with the idea of choosing between me and mom. S13 had just got of the phone and asked me what I thought of the "Seattle situation", which I knew nothing about. I told him that I he shouldn't worry about me and that I loved him no matter what he did. I didn't know what else to say. He then wanted to know why I didn't just come to Seattle with him, and I had to tell him that mom did'nt want me to come. D17 then came in and told me that he had been upset for a while about this, and I quickly said we should'nt really be talking about this, that I needed to talk directly with mom about it.

Here are my choices:
1) Tell my W to go ahead and take S13, since I just had him for a week. Sucks for me, no family or friends in town that week and I'll have to stay and watch the pets. Will likely take the most pressure off of S13.

2) Tell my W that I want her to stick to our original agreement. I wonder if she will just do it anyway.

3) Continue with VERY limited conversation with W, and let her make the choice. I don't think I can really stop her anyway.

I want to do what's best for S13, but I don't want to continue being a doormat for W. that' what this feels like.
My head is still in a fog, so I thought I would post these thoughts here BEFORE I do anything, and see what yall have to say.

[Awoken]

WAW called several times today, while she knows I'm with the kids. I can't help but think she is knowingly trying to disrupt our time together, but maybe I'm just reacting and mind reading.

I didn't answer, waited for about an hour then sent her a text saying, "hi, what's up?" , she replied "I want to talk about the Seattle trip". I replied "I would like to talk about it in person on Monday when we agreed." She'll be back in town very late sunday night. She responds "So, you want to hurt MY family with this!". I replied, "I have no intention of hurting your family. We agreed yesterday that I had 2-3 days, and it's only been 24 hours. We can talk Sunday night if you want, but I was aware that you will be getting in very late. Just let me know if you prefer Sun or Mon.".
30 minutes pass, and then I get her reply of "Fine."

I dunno, but I think it was good I didn't talk on the phone with her and kept it to text. I stayed calm and focused on the problem. I'm gonna rehearse what I'm gonna say when we do meet. For all I know, she may go ahead and book flights for her and S13 anyway, and I need to prepare for it.

Last night she tried to chat with the kids on FB, and then suddenly just stopped replying to them. she's acting so strange, and it worries both D17 and S13.

I'm thinking about suggesting that we stick to the original agreement: S13 stays with me for new years week. Then I'll suggest that she can take both kids to Seattle for spring break.

I'm having a great time this weekend with my kids, and I'm surprisingly feeling a little detached from her, like I don't need her and these problems. I'm not sure what to think about that.

[sandi2]

She is manipulating you and the kids. Perhaps she has always done this and you allowed her to get by with it? People like your W continue to do it until it becomes a "way of life" and they reach a place they may not even realize how they are treating people. Perhpas she doesn't realize but then OTOH.....she may very well know what she's doing. (You know your W, so what do you think?) One thing is for sure, you can be she will continue as long as she's not called out about it. People who manipulate their families are bullies and they are self-centered.

If you feel like a doormat, that is probably b/c you are being stepped on a lot!

[Awoken]

Thanks for the reply Sandi. They all mean a lot. right now, I'm so deep in self-doubt about every little thing.

She is manipulating you and the kids. Perhaps she has always done this and you allowed her to get by with it?

People like your W continue to do it until it becomes a "way of life" and they reach a place they may not even realize how they are treating people. Perhpas she doesn't realize but then OTOH.....she may very well know what she's doing. (You know your W, so what do you think?)

That's a good question, have I allowed her to do this for years? Maybe. This does seem like new stuff; she seems like a completely different person; an alien. In the past, she has lashed out at OTHERS in this way, usually targeting one ENEMY at a time. Either a best friend, a neighbor, or a co-worker. This is the first time I've become the enemy, and she's made up with all the other enemies in her life. It's very irrational, and I think she is aware of that. But I don't think she has any idea that she has changed her focus to me.

If you feel like a doormat, that is probably b/c you are being stepped on a lot!

Yes. I've often felt like I was taking care of three children and felt resentful because of it. The thing is, I can see now how my resentment of this is one of the many problems in the M. It wasn't honest or loving of me to continue this way, and harbor the resentment. I have to laydown to be a doormat, right?

After all these years, it's hard standing up now and she sure doesn't like it. I'm not very sure of what I'm doing, but I seem to be getting clearer.

[Awoken]

So, either late tonight or monday night I'm having a sit-down with my WAW to discuss her plans to take S13 to seatle for New Years week. (D17 will be in california for the rosebowl parade).
This is assuming that she didn't just go ahead and book the flights anyway.

I don't think I've handled most of our conversations very well. I need some support about what to say, how to say it, etc.

I want to take a stand on two things: First, that communication about the kids schedules should go between the two of us, and not through the kids. How do I say this and not make it sound like I'm trying to control her?

Second, S13 should stay home for newyears week as we originally agreed. S13 does not want to make the choice himself, and is very concerned about me not going on the trip. He has asked multiple times why I can't go to Seatle too, or how much would the extra plane ticket cost. I don't think it's in his interest, to be forced to deal with this, when we haven't even sat down to talk to him about our sitch yet. I think I should offer spring break week as an alternative. W could take both D17 and S13 then, and I'll be working. The very selfish side of this is that since we had already agreed on Newyears week, I turned down all my gigs and made plans already. Basically, it's too late to change any of that.

Please, what do you think?

[karen43]

First, that communication about the kids schedules should go between the two of us, and not through the kids. How do I say this and not make it sound like I'm trying to control her?

The way you said it here sounds just fine to me. You're focus is clearly on the kids and not control. You just do what you have to do, and don't worry about your W's reaction to what you are saying.

Second, S13 should stay home for newyears week as we originally agreed.

Sounds like you have many good reasons for sticking by the original plans. Hers is something like "you're trying to hurt me or my family" or something. I think the alternative of giving her spring break week is wonderful as well. I would try to get that in written form as well at some point, whether she agrees or not email that to her and save a copy of that on your computer. When they are deciding custody they look to the more reasonable parent to grant custody, and if she doesn't agree, then it will help you in the future if nothing else.

[sandi2]

I have to laydown to be a doormat, right?

Excellent point! She will not respect a doormat no matter how you try to dress it up. There is one thing and one thing only she will respect and that is you saying what you mean and making her stick to what has been agreed. Somewhere along the way, she has made you think you were controlling and now you are leary about sticking to your guns b/c of that. Well, who cares? If she didn't blame you with controlling, it would be something else, right? It is very important that you do not argue a point that you have already stated. I wondered why you said she was coming and the two of you were going to sit down and discuss the issue about your S13 and who he'd be staying with, etc. Why have her sit down and talk? Wasn't it decided before she tried to throw a monkey wrench into it? You know as well as anybody that it will end up with the two of you arguing. She'll get mad and if you aren't very caredful, you'll give in to her just to have peace! That is one of the worst things a man can do. It only makes the woman worse the next time she wants her way!

Just remind your W that what was decided about the kids schedule stands and there is nothing to discuss. Tell her that if you ever even get the idea that she's behind one of the kid's changing their minds about where they "really" want to stay....that you will take her to court and a judge can make all the decisions. Don't say that she "was" behind your son wanting to be there with her family, but that if you ever just get the "feeling" that she has anything to do with one of the kids changing their plans.

A woman like your W has to have a man who is stronger than she is. If she doesn't, she'll eat him alive! You must stand up to her on EVERYTHING and don't give an inch (unless it is something extordinatory). Yes, it is unpleasant, but you may be looking at the rest of your life with this cr@p if you don't lay down the law to her.

Was she planning to come anyway, or did you ask her to come in order to discuss this? Since she's coming anyway.....head off the discussion with what you said still stands. If she starts in with her bitching...hold up your hand in a "stop" position and tell her that you will not argue nor discuss it farther. Know how to deal with a female that pitches a fit? Walk out of the house and drive away. If it's your house and not her's....then show her the door. You don't have to put up with that from her. You've told me enough that I already have her number! Women like her think they "have" to have at least one person they hate all the time. They almost make it their project. So, you're her enemy....that may never change, but I can promise you that it won't change by you kissing her behind. She may not like you--but you can make her respect you.

It also teaches your son how to be a man and how he needs to act when he's M. It shows your D what kind of man she needs to M some day regardless of what mom may tell her. Let's hope your D won't turn out to be like her mother.

I need some support about what to say, how to say it, etc.

Okay, I'm kind of repeating myself, but this may give you a play by play of what I was saying.

So....when your W sits down, don't even wait until she tries to hit you with how unreasonable you are being and how much her family wants S13 to be there or how much he wants it. She'll probably start on you the minute she gets there, but when you finally get her sitted.....continue to stand to make your statement (b/c that puts you in a position of authority). Hold up your hand and say, "W, I'll save you the time and energy by telling you that I have decided (very important to use the words I've decided) that we will stick to the schedule that was originally agreed upon. There will always be "something" that comes along that you or somebody else will want to change things around. After giving this careful thought, I have decided that that it will be to the kids' advantage, in the long run, to stay on schedule."

She, of course, will tell you how selfish you are......or at least she'll start, but that is when you hold up your hand to "stop". Say, "W, we will not fight about this. We can sit down and calmly discuss the calendar for this next year and decide how we will share visitation, or you may leave....it's your choice, but we will not argue about this".

She will react b/c she's use to getting her way. She'll probably acuse you of controlling, so when she starts......either hand her her coat and show her the door and say, "When you are ready to calmly discuss next year's calendar, then I will talk to you....but not until then". I am thinking you two are S, so you should be able to walk her to the door and say nothing farther, but if I'm wrong then you can leave and go spend the night in a motel or something....but don't take her disrespect.

I think I should offer spring break week as an alternative.

I'm not saying that in the future that you can't be more flexable, but for this time.....in order to show her that you still wear pants like a man (no offense), you don't need to offer any alternatives. If you do, then you are politely handing all the power back to her after you've just taken it from her. That is your goal this time around...is to take control of your life again and stop giving her all the power. You are not trying to control what she does in her life, but she has no right to control yours. BTW, do not argue any of this with her. Her "tool" will be to get you into an argument and that is why I keep telling you not to argue. As soon as you do....you've lost. It is like aruging with a child.....as soon as you do then you've lost your authority as a parent. Just as with a child, you do not have to give her any "pitch" for why you have made your decisions. This isn't a sale you're making, so don't feel that you have to do that, okay? Just state your decision and leave it at that.

I told a man some type of advice similar to this one time and a female poster didn't like it. Said, "Why don't you just tell all the women to walk ten paces behind the men?" (LOL) That isn't what I'm doing here. I am trusting that you realize that you have to regain ground that has been lost a long time ago with your W. It may take courage, the first time, but I'll bet it makes you feel great! She won't like it, but she will respect a man who shows strength and leadership. There is a difference in being the leader in a family....and being a dictator. She has chosen to leave you and not follow, but your children need their father to be a leader.

[sandi2]

I used the example of telling her that the two of you could discuss next year's calendar, but that was just an example. You may not be at the place or time that you are ready to look at next year. I was thinking of a reason for having her there for a discussion other than S13 staying with her. Maybe you know a better way to turn it off.

Let me know how it goes.

[Awoken]

Thank you Sandi. I read everything you wrote many times, over and over. It really helps.

The bomb was only 5 weeks ago, and we are still living in the same house. I slept in the guest room for a few days, but then moved back in the master bedroom and she promptly moved into the guestroom.

my plan (typing it out to help get it clear in my mind):

1) get W to sit down to talk
2) remain standing!
3) tell her that communication about the kids schedules should be between the two of us, and not through the kids. If I ever get the feeling that W is manipulating one of the kids, I'll take the matter to court and a judge can decide all visitations.
4) Then, I'll tell her that thought it over and I've decided it's in the best interest of S13 for us to stick to the original agreement.
5) If she argues, I'll stop her and tell her I'll only talk if she is willing to discuss it calmly. I'll leave the room if needed.
6) If she wants to talk about the future schedule, I can offer spring break to her and her family.

Of course, she may have already bought the tickets. I'm sure she has aligned her entire family against me.

Showdown either tonight after 10 when she gets back from the airport, or tomorrow night after work. I'll be sure to let you know how it works out. THANKS AGAIN.

[Awoken]

It was a disaster.