UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to detach

[Eskimo Nell]

well meaning people say, "Get on with it. Forget him. Get somebody else." Those people just don't want to see you hurt. That's our society. We don't want to see hurt and pain, only joy so we encourage others to 'get over it'. It's only when you've walked that path that you realise that it's just not that simple.

Too right Cas. Unless someone has been here, they can have no concept of how it feels, or the importance that people attach to salvaging their M.

It's a well known fact that we live in a disposable society and for many WASs, I believe that they look on M as the empty bottle of water which they are carrying around and can't wait to find a trash can to throw it in to.

The fact that my friends back home do not understand, has led to me being all the more detached from society - the less I interact, the less I have to defend myself at a time when I don't feel that I can.

I have stopped trying to defend my emotions and actions to my friends by email. I know that they are purely behaving as you state above, but I can't take their constant disapproval and how they think it's fine for them to say nasty things about my H. They seem to have lost the thread that, even though he is being vile to me right now, I am not being vile back to him and I don't want them to say nasty things about him.

What they don't see is that, although H is hurting me, they are hurting me too by saying those things. I have therefore chosen my silence to them and answer all emails very generically and try not to mention H at all. In turn, they think that I am being off-ish and am trying to cut them out. The communications from home have become less and less as they don't understand, try though I have to explain it to them.

I remember supporting a friend many years ago in her R breakup. She was in a same sex R which was a huge secret - literally no-one except four of us friends knew. I spent eight years supporting her until she dropped the funk. Now that I am having my troubles, I have very little support from her. I have tried to put that down to the fact that it is probably a reminder of what she went through but for goodness sakes - where are all of my friends now that I need them?? Makes me feel quite bitter, I can tell you. Constantly highlights how alone I am in the world - physically and emotionally. If it weren't for the friends here on this board, I would have given up by now.

[Sanderika]

Nell,

I think I told you this before....here goes again,

My sitch started in August 2005. The 16th to be exact. It was not until January 3rd 2006, that our relationship took a different path. 4+ months!!!

In those 4 months my H went from hating my guts and adamant about a D, having gone to the county to get the papers and had them almost complete and filed, to reconsidering his choice. He stopped the D from going further at that time because he saw the changes I was making and recognized my hard work and could see that I was getting myself back to the person he fell in love with and my home back to the original place he enjoyed being in.

He didn't pursue a D for another 3 years after that. It was only then he did it to shut up the OW. The OW knows nothing of our continued relationship. This is the hard part. I have a hard time with this. She got him to file and he doesn't want to D me. He still can't come home and that is the MLC. His journey isn't over yet. Gucci and Stuck might think I am wacked, I do believe this. My H doesn't want to D me. He has postponed the proceedings three times now and with each passing day our relationship changes still.

I guess I could also say I don't care about the cake-eating. I am a rare bird. It has brought me and H closer. H is now more candid with me and he shares things with me he would have never in that beginning time. The only discussion off topic is the OW. I have told him she isn't human and has no place in my world now or ever. She has no name to me. He knows how I feel. He respects my reasons. I do overlook her, I have had to learn to.

Nell, all of this DB is learned behavior. You learn what works and what doesn't. This can only happen over time. This is unfair and very painful. This is when you muster all the strength and courage and patience you can. And just when you think you have all of it, you will need more. I am not kidding. This is not for the faint of heart. This can only be done when you truly believe standing will bring your H home. By believing so strongly your behaviors will refect your ideas and desires and H will notice the changes. You will live your changes until you become someone else. Not someone new, someone you were. The person H left is not the person you are meant to be. It is a journey for you and a humbling one at that. You will be a much better person after living this situation. Trust me.

H is not happy. H appears happy. Your H is a scared man right now. H does not want to be living this either. He does not fully understand why, he would deny this is a MLC. It's part of the problem. They are trying to figure out what they want. They are afraid to grow old. They are afraid of what they missed out on. They are afraid of responsibility. They are afraid of us. They are afraid of their future without us and the security of marriage. All sounds wierd, it's true. The problems are they can't stop the process. They need to experience the full MLC before they can come out of the fog. It will cause destruction, unfortunately they will not see that part until it is too late. They have to hit bottom before they can come back to the top. This will only happen by experiencing losses and consequences. NC can be viewed as a loss and consequence at the same time.

Your H is living in a selfish world. It is all about him right now. To break into that place of his, you need to be open to him. You need to be willing to be validating and concerned and forgive him his faults everyday. I always remember there is a fine line between love and hate. I love H and hate what he is doing. It won't make sense to everyone. It does to me. I wake everyday and forgive H for what he will do that day. Literally. By accepting his contact you are validating his existence and making him feel accepted in your world. A lot of MLC has to do with his ego and him feeling good.

Sometimes in DB things don't appear to be working and in reality they are. Our sitches are forefront in our H's minds just like in ours. They are thinking out all the possibilities and choices constantly. They are open to changes and are looking for them.

It is my opinion that H starts an argument before he leaves because it makes it easier for him to leave. You apparently feed right into it by offering a comeback to the argument and validating H's reason that he has to leave, therefore next time don't buy into it. Stand quiet and cute and sweet. Leave H with guilt for leaving not proof that he's right.

I have friends and family. I have cut off virtually all contact with family because they do not understand my choice and berate me for it. I have friends and they are supportive and at the same time do not understand this at all. I keep pretty quiet and only come here to talk about it. It is better all around for doing that. I do keep quite a bit bottled up and that is hard. I have a moment everyday that I cry. My decision to end the marriage in December is fine. I have travelled a long way. I was hoping to see some significant changes these past few months and have not. I have come to realize that nothing will change without something more/new. I cannot be H's wife any longer while he entertains OW. The tidbits aren't enough for me anymore. It has nothing to do with my feelings for H. I would take him back if he walked through the door right now. He won't. The choice is about simply accepting what is...is and accepting that there isn't enough room for me and son in H's world anymore. I did give it the good fight and a very honest, fair one at that. No one can argue that fact. I did it with grace and a calm patience that has taught me volumns about life.

Nell, you could very well find yourself in a D like me. I want you to totally understand that there are to be no expectations and your hard work may not bring your H completely home. I can say that it will create a better person in you and that your H will notice and your relationship will be different than it is now, it will be better and better is good. If it's better and good, you never know what can happen. Right now though it needs a great deal of improvement. Get working on improving. Keep the backslides at bay. You do that by being conscious of your every movement and word around H. You can do this. I learned how, so can you.

(((((Hugs)))))

Got to go watch the season premier of Desperate Housewives, it's the only show I follow. Then off to bed. I will try and post more to you. I am struggling like I said. This is rougher than I expected it would be.

Sanderika

[Eskimo Nell]

Bless you, Sanderika.

You are really giving me some food for thought today and I appeciate you being here and supporting me. You know, in all of this, the advice that has brought the most response from H has come from you and so I intend to keep listening. You told me to wave him off as he left our penultimate meeting, rather than arguing with him, as would be normal. This is the best memory that I have of him in four whole months! I can still see his face in the shadows as he drove away, smiling and waving. Everything since then has blurred out due to more and more pain.

I keep thinking over what he has said in the past. I don't know if it's truth or the MLC speaking. He says that we should never have gotten married - that he realised very early on that he was still in love with his old gf (they were NEVER an item, I have since learned from his friend)! He says that over the years he has enjoyed our life together and he has totally loved me but the past few years have been wrong and he was telling me so but I was just not listening. (You know, all the usual rewriting of history, leaving all the good parts out and concentrating on the negative stuff).

I never heard this. Each time I would bring up the fact that we had difficulties, he would become upset and say that he knew that we were living like brother and sister, didn't know why he did not feel the need for a physical relationship with me other than on the most infrequent of occasions, and how we have got this far is a mystery to him. He says that he has not felt loved and in turn, has been unable to give his love. I have been feeling rejected by him for years and all the while I learn that he was feeling the same. Reading 5 LL has really hammered that home to me. H was speaking Russian and I was speaking French.

Now, he says that he has had enough. He wants to love, be loved, have a life and be happy - all the things that he thinks he can't have with me. He says that we have gone down ever widening parallel paths and there is no turning back - not ever. He seems to be having his needs fulfilled by ow and his only sadness is that the tramp lives interstate and he can't be there or vice versa due to 'barriers' whatever that means ... that's the only sadness I ever see coming from him - NOTHING to do with us or our situation. He has left me in his head and in his heart.

I was reading through some old texts that he sent last night and I can see that his misery is quickly resolved as soon as something with ow happens. (Wish I could get me a pair of those rosey coloured spectacles). It is working for him to be living this new life and he doesn't give a jot about me. He doesn't see this as an A but as a whole new life for himself ... he's not playing and I believe that this is for real. It's why I feel so desperate and that I am not going to win him back, whatever I do.

How do I break in to that?? I can be as friendly as I like but that just makes him feel better and less guilty as he sees that I am coping. If I cope, he has nothing to worry about. In the meanwhile, I am the thorn in his side as I am living in our home and remain here as a constant reminder to him. He hasn't pushed on D or selling the house in a while. All he is doing now is trying to tighten the financial screw on me so that I am the one to crack and admit that the house has to be sold. Again, he would walk away with no blame attached to him for the mess that he will be leaving me in.

H has to always have a clean face - no egg is ever allowed to come near. It's not allowable for him to be seen as the villain - it would kill him. So much so, when he dropped the bomb and I retreated to the UK, some of his final words to me were "it's OK by me if you want to save face and tell everyone that you are binning me". My reply - "oh no, I won't be telling them that. You have to own this shame - this is your doing". He visibly winced.

[Eskimo Nell]

Just got an email from a friend, asking me how I feel today - how I feel today is like a widow. That sums it up really well - though contact from the dead is probably more usual than contact from my WAH.

On the flip side of that, I tell myself that H is coming home. Watching romantic movies exacerbates the thoughts and I can't see why he doesn't see what the rest of the world sees - it's just a few words, get in the car and drive back ...... voila! H is home - and then I wake up.

It feels like an eternity since our heated exchange on Saturday. I am determined to see the nc thing through again although I know that he will email in the next day or two, as my earlier thread. I am just wondering at my response - or do I even bother to respond? Thing is, our tribunal has a lot riding on it, so you will see that this is not just caving in for contact with H - this is serious stuff.

[Lost Rabbit]

Morning Nell,

Some wise words from Sanderieka, and good to have a slightly tweaked DB version to digest too! Like I said before the weekend it really has to be slightly adapted to suit some.

My observation from reading all the weekends reports is that you see GAL and DB'ing when is working well for you that H sees it as a green light you are ok and he can move on! Put a spin on it! IMHO I reckon that it might be validating him feeling youre ok and he can move on, but what is 100% is that every time you go PLOT LOST for want of a better word you are validating him leaving twice fold.

If you get to a washing machine/lawn mower disaster, come and rant on here first, a) it will make you feel better b) someone might have an idea what to do c) you will have been sidelined from losing it with H. You are a panicker just like me, and what works for Mr Rabbit is watching when I would normally lose/blow it and I dont, and believe me I know how hard it is not to lose it, I could so easily have just flipped when I got back yesterday, it took everything and twice over to ignore him packing and go tidying myself up and come down looking happy, if I had lost it despite that H obviously looked shattered, worried, he would have cut his nose of to spite his face and driven the three hours home.. I made it ok for him to stay by being ok myself.. Im not blowing my own trumpet at all, just totally empathising the amount of energy it takes to do stuff that your whole body tells you, you cant! Will be around today so feel free to rant away at me..

[Eskimo Nell]

My observation from reading all the weekends reports is that you see GAL and DB'ing when is working well for you that H sees it as a green light you are ok and he can move on! Put a spin on it! IMHO I reckon that it might be validating him feeling youre ok and he can move on, but what is 100% is that every time you go PLOT LOST for want of a better word you are validating him leaving twice fold.

OK - so I might be under the influence of a glass of white but I have read this three times and am not getting it! Sorry Rabbit ... can you explain again??!!!

[Lost Rabbit]

You drunken bum Nell lol! Ok will try and explain better as its probably me too!

If you GAL H's feels hes OK to leave you

If you go BUNNY BOILER, he feels he is RIGHT to leave you and enforces it further

The first is amicable and leaves you in a good position holding your own, the second is chasing him further away and leaving you in a worse position.

I hope that makes more sense, to me the first way only does one lot of damage in your eyes and the second two lots of damage..

If it dont make sense dont over analyse its probably me lol! and perhaps tomorrow I can say it in english!

Honestly I think you really need to GAL if H had died on that day, you would have grieved but had to have moved on, so what would you have done, things you wanted to do, get a list and work through them, have your own MLC and be selfish for yourself and the things you want to do, look at it as if/when H comes home you will want to devote time to him, so now you need to get all those things you want to do done first..

[Eskimo Nell]

Gotcha! Thanks for perservering with me!

Truth be known, GAL has never been big on my agenda and now that I feel a bit forced in to it, it's even less appealing. Due to the isolation of where I live, there's precious here anyhow. Granted that I could find something but I feel that you have to have some drive to do so and I feel to grief stricken right now to get out of my own way. (I know, big pity party).

Added to the insecurities re money and lack of people to do anything with, I am a bit of a sad sack. H and I just used to love going out on picnics and talking .. watching nature, spending time with one another ... there was never any time, or need for anything else.

I have counted the hours this weekend and when I stop and see that H has flown interstate (and will hopefully be on his way back tonight), you have been on your riding course, Cas has been walking on the beach and who knows what Oz has been up to, I feel ashamed that all I have done is sat here (after mowing the lawns) and hopped back and forth between the site and my email accounts - refreshing and refreshing to see who's around. How pathetic and shabby a life is that? Gets me to thinking that I should come home - at least I would have a little more than this but then it's a big move to make as I know that I would not be any happier.

Yes, I would have friends and family but that's it. I would have to uproot the babies (and all the worry of them emigrating again) ship all my stuff, wait until the house were sold - and then end up in a shabby council flat - which I have always vowed that I would die first, before doing.

H is getting off lightly compared to all of this, isn't he? It's his mess. Why am I struggling to clean it all up and why do I have to find a new life for myself when all I want is him?

[Lost Rabbit]

With you all the way on the last bit hun! and I dont think its time to admit defeat and head home just yet either, as you say you may be in more familiar surroundings, but you are going to still feel the same and with winter coming on, well to retreat to soggy old blighty would be suicidal in my mind! Ok you have to pity party some times, Im vegging today and doing pretty much the same as you, its not a pity party its a ME day, a recovery day before I set out to battle the world again.. STOP thinking you are saving the world from little old grief stricken you, you are funny and good company online and I dont have a clue what you look like even! You love animals, isnt there a blue cross/rspca equivalant around that you could get company and furry cuddles and wont cost you a penny, bet they will be over joyed to see you. How about a OAP home, go and read to some one they will be over joyed and probably a blooming good laugh to boot. How about not GAL but Giving AL to someone. Would the moggles be happy to be bundled into a cage and join a visiting programme like pat pets.. Im in fact Im insisting that you find one thing you can do for free for some one else by the end of this week and believe me Im gonna ask what you have done so :P

[Eskimo Nell]

OMGoodness - throw down that gauntlet, why don't you?!!

No worries that I will fly the nest back to the UK again - that seemingly was my biggest mistake in June.

Mmm, I might just look at something on the animal front - only good stuff though, not if I had to be involved in lifting corpses and the like - just can't do that, even though I am a Nursey! Like the idea of going to read to some OAP's but again, that's a bit too much like a busman's holiday for me and my career! I'm such a fussy old chook these days - although to do something for someone more needy than I (is there anyone?) would be a wonderful thing.

I considered the Sally Army but I don't want to be converted to religion (no offence to anyone) - they would probably kick me out on my ear if they knew half of the thoughts that I had at the moment, anyhow!

OK - I'm running away now that you have scared me whitless ... getting the furries in from the garden, cuppa and beddie byes for us! Work in the morning and a late night, as it's C straight after work. Then it will be hump day, so that's the week half gone ... again.

Night night Rabbit - have a great 'me' afternoon. I bet you are finding so much more to do now that you have some contentment back in your life?!! I know that I would.