K4D Rising #4

[MrBond]

The main problem is that after all this time you've never detached yourself from her. That's why you feel like you have to do all or nothing.

So are you no longer "standing"?

[K4D]

Stuck,

Really, I have to ask. What is your purpose in posting to me? Is it to call me out and expose the fact that I am not the end all be all, which I don't claim to be and never have by a long shot? Or is it that you are trying to push me to be better?

I really have a hard time telling with you sometimes.

Kevin

[BobbiJo]

Hey,

Just fyi, in my case I told my H I was going to file and I gave him the papers myself. This was after a 'discussion' where he started talking about not improving his house so the value wouldn't go up before the divorce, not contributing to the 401k so he didn't have to share more $ with me, etc...

Even then, I filed to protect myself, but I still gave him a heads-up and served him myself. But tons of people have their spouses served, too. If it comes to that, do what you believe is the right thing to do.

[The Wifey]

What do you call an LBS who won't listen, learn or improve themself? Divorced.

KerryK,

I'm sure there is a point to this quote. I am sure you are saying that I am not learning, listening or improving myself. But I am.

Kevin

I find it hard to find a point except that they are frustrated and expressing themselves in a not particularly helpful way.

[CityGirl]

Don't confuse support from your family with validation. I feel you are seeking validation from *somebody* to go ahead and file. And really the *only* validation you need to make such a choice must come from within.

You have proclaimed yourself a "stander". You have been staunch and vehement in that stance. I am not saying it's a good or bad thing, it's simply what you have shared with us up to this point. Sometimes though, the problem with being so staunch and vehement in your stance (and this applies to all areas of life) is it prevents any growth or evolution to the situation. Perhaps by standing and being so vocal and firm about it you actually prevented *something* else from happening.

You are frustrated and tired. I get it. I think we all do. Perhaps now though you can see why many of us tried to gently lead you to open your mind and thought process to be more flexible about what *must* happen in your marriage.

If you are ready to file for a D and that decision is made minus emotion from a certain exchange or event then by all means, go ahead and do it. It just might be the BEST thing you have ever done for yourself.

Yes, your W treats you like crap but with all due respect she does that because you allow her to. A D won't change that, it simply means you won't be married to her anymore.

For a long time, well over a year I was as staunch as they come in my thought process of the WAS filing for the D. They want it, they do the dirty work, they pay for it and suffer any counter suit that is returned their way. My thought was I would comply as the law told me I had to but that was it. Looking back I am not sure I would have done anything different but now I see how perhaps opening my mind to a new way of thinking may have saved me from a 21 month legal battle.

In a way I think you felt that if you were a "stander" long enough eventually your W would come around. And it just doesn't work that way. As you continued to stand you also kept doing things the same way except this time you gave it the title of "stander" so it sounded good but in reality not much had changed. And your W could see that.

I don't think you are detached at all from your W. And a legal document will not help you detach nor will it change the dynamic between the two of you. You can change you and it *might* change the dynamic (or might not). I just don't want you to have any hope that a divorce will "wake her up". There are ways to gain back your personal power and in your case I am not sure a D is one of them.

That being said if you are done then you are done. And there isn't a thing wrong with that. Nobody should have to live in a situation for years and years as many of us do. But really we have nobody to blame but ourselves as we have the power to get out of this situation and the only way out isn't a D.

The point of all of this? Use this as a lesson that sometimes in life we have to be more flexible in our beliefs. That is not to say we have to change them but often times we do have to expand them a bit. And once we do expand them often times things do change.

I know you are struggling to gain some control over this situation but as you know you can only control you. A D will not give you control. It will simply dissolve your legal marriage and if you are ready to do that, then do it. As I said, we all have our limits.

[The Wifey]

Kev,

Just take your time. No rush. Take it in and give it time.

[25yearsmlc]

1) The purpose in giving her the chance to waive service or choose where to be served, is so she won't be embarrassed at work or shamed at home -especially if the girls are there. If you KNOW she'll be served at home and you have the kids, maybe that's fine. If not, what the heck is the harm in asking her which she'd prefer? From my experience, it's considered discourteous to not let the person choose where they want to be served, and since you have children, and she has a career (which is also in your interests to protect) you should offer her the choice of where to get the papers or to waive service altogether. She'll have to sign for the waiver anyhow.
2) I don't care about you meeting the ow. Actually, I pretty much agree with what gucci said and that's unusual. What I wish to God you had learned is that you have been way too judgemental in the past about 2nd M's, and calling people who date or marry previously marrieds, "whores" or "losers" or worse. That's what really bothered me (& CG commented on that). How harshly you judged others. Learn from that and stop seeing the world so black and white.

3) the drinking bugs me b/c you do exactly what nearly all alcoholics do when they relapse; they don't go out and get wasted the first time they fall off the wagon. Most of the time, they fool themselves and "control" their drinking temporarily, and sometimes for months...and then they do it some more and then it damages a job, reduces ambition, hurts a relationship or causes an accident. Your previous drinking did all these things, it hurt your career, created havoc in your marriage (to the point where your w referred to you as an "alcoholic"). You were also an apathetic father by your own admission, b/c you liked to drink when you got home, and you didn't like making hard choices, but preferred leaving those up to your w. Drinking makes that abdication easier I suppose. If none of those reasons are enough for you to stay away from booze like the plague, then what's to say?

4) please don't say you "only had 2 drinks" AND that you are "working the 12 steps" in the same paragraph. Drink or don't drink. But don't pretend to be in the program when you are not practicing it. Having 2 sponsors (WHY?) and not calling either before you took a drink, being in a bar in the first place...etc.

Like I said, if you want to keep drinking, go ahead. But don't offend those of us who actually live and practice the 12 steps, by saying the rest of what you said. It's too bad you don't "get it" though. I mean, actually understanding what it means to DO the steps, (to my knowlege you have not done them or we'd know) would have helped you with setting boundaries, learning self love and self respect and improving as a person, so much. The 4th step and taking a moral inventory and making amends to those whom we've harmed, is a powerful experience...you never got there. Oh well.

Finally, You and your w both have a lot of growing to do before either one of you is ready to enter "piecing" which is mandatory before a real reconciliation could take place. Her "redeeming herself" presupposes you doing the same and from what she wrote about you months ago and her complaints with you...have you really improved that much to say it's all about her changes?

I don't know. I just see a lot of cyclical behavior. As for being at the end or your rope, yeah, we get it. The one thing everyone here agrees on is that you have to do something far different than what you have been doing.

CG's notes are priceless and detailed. Print them out b/c your memory is short. Read them daily... Seriously.
j-

[K4D]

I don't have it in me to really address everything that was said. But I will say this. The only way for me to achieve detachment really is by bringing this to a close and ending it and walking away.

25, I don't even know what to say about your assumption that I am just going to go back to drinking and so forth with my life. I'm not.

As far as seeing things as black and white, you are right, I did. I no longer do. I understand now that everyone has their limits. I hit mine. I guess the whole "standing" thing was more than I could really take with time. I bit off more than I could chew. I thought I could chew the whole thing as long as it took. I can't.

CG, I am not looking to gain any control over this or get her back. I am walking away from her and moving on with my life without her. I am prepared to go through with this and I have no expectations of her changing her mind or else I wouldn't consider this. I am done. I am walking out. It is over. She isn't coming back. I'm not wasting my time anymore on a dream.

The only thing I am worried about now is how to tell my kids that yes, I am officially ending it. But in all honesty, I am not ending anything. W already ended it. I am just finalizing it.

I did talk to my priest yesterday. He is not for it. He thinks I need to keep praying and being patient. He says that once I am a confirmed catholic that my prayers will have more influence as a H and a father. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn't. I don't know. It kind of frusturated me as I am trying to submit to the authority of the church. Even my BIL surprisingly is finally in support of me doing this. He said morally he isn't, but he also said he is not in my position and he can understand it and he can't say at the same time how long he could hold out either.

It is not that I am looking for approval so much as seeing if I am stepping out of bounds here. And I seem to have everyone in agreement other than my priest to go forward with it if I can't hold out any longer.

Yes, I took a harsh stance as a stander. But my human side finally took over. I realized reality.

25, I don't think I am ever going to convince you of anything other than what my past was.

I already said I feel like a hypocrite because of how harsh my stance was. I can't change that.

I haven't fully made my decision as I don't want to be in defiance of the church. I am really trying to think it over though and weigh stuff. If I do this, I am going through with it. I have already set my mindset of being done if I do this. This is no joke and no ploy and no strategy. I would not do this lightly. I don't want to do it. There were times when I almost wanted to cry when thinking about going forward with it. But I feel like it is the only way to move on with my life and put her in the past.

Kevin

[smith18]

Kevin - I like the sound of your latest tone. The realization that you are human and cant be expected to have unconditional love. Dont feel bad that you have reached a limit.

I did talk to my priest yesterday. He is not for it. He thinks I need to keep praying and being patient. He says that once I am a confirmed catholic that my prayers will have more influence as a H and a father. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn't. I don't know. It kind of frusturated me as I am trying to submit to the authority of the church.

The only thing I think the priest is lacking experience of is marriage itself. Kevin, the priest has not walked in your shoes or anyone elses that has gone through the heartache of having a spouse walk away. I can understand that you are really torn right now, and I think as more time goes on for you to think about this, you will feel better about your decision.

I remember having friends and family thinking I was a fool for wanting her back. But, I needed to know for myself that I tried to do all I felt I could and should do to help save my family.

I dont know how long divorces take in Texas, but I would imagine it is several months. Keep in mind that anything can happen during that time.

[MrBond]

"Really, I have to ask. What is your purpose in posting to me? Is it to call me out and expose the fact that I am not the end all be all, which I don't claim to be and never have by a long shot? Or is it that you are trying to push me to be better?"

It is to do neither. We've all seen what happens both times when you're pushed and when you're not. I was merely stating fact. You haven't detached. Citygirl explained it quite elegantly.

Detachment isn't about being either all in or all out. If you looked back at your statements on "standing" you will see that for yourself. It's like you're telling people your POV which didn't seem like you fully understood yourself.

"But I will say this. The only way for me to achieve detachment really is by bringing this to a close and ending it and walking away."

Right here is where you show how little you understand about detachment. Even if you were D'd, if your feelings are still there, you will only change the feelings of hopelessness to feelings of resentment and eventual hatred. And that's something your daughters don't need.

You've shown time and time again that you have a problem with trying to keep your emotions in check. Divorce isn't going to change that. It will only make it worse. Detach and you will get better. You will FEEL better. Detachment means that you will feel the same about your W whether you are D'd from her or not. It's an acceptance of how things are but it is your choice to decide how they will be.

You still haven't reached that "a-ha" moment about what detachment is.