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#1845341 - 09/26/09 03:30 PM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: Esox]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
Thought we'd made some progres Thurs / Fri. Thursday we shared some minor intimcay, after which she cried a little, said that I only want her when she talks about divorce, when she's "forbidden fruit", then if she came back it would just go back to the way it was. Friday morning, she wasn't getting up so I popped in to wake her - she pulled back the covers for me to get in, and we spent some time together.

She appeared to be confused and conflicted about this (and I mean that in a good way). She responded to it, within her boundaries. Said, I'm going to have to journal about why I'm letting you do this... It certainly affected her. She joked at one point that we could get divorced and be lovers. What a strange thing to say.

Counciller said, this is going to be the only way, working on the intimcay connection, and I know last time we went through this, that was the breakthrough. And she said this is different than pursuit.

But now she's away for the weekend, and I know she's not where she says she is. I know she's seeing this other guy. I've seen the messages. I talked to her on the phone yesterday, finally said, I shouldn't get into this, but I really hope you're keeping your word to me. And she said, I wouldn't do anything to hurt you, I still feel a devotion to you. She said, I'm already dealing with so many things already, I can't take on another attachment, that's why it was so easy to agree to break this off. That's what she said. It was so natural. I wanted to believe her. But I know she's lying. I don't know what she's doing - I want to imagine the best, and I want to imagine the worst.

I don't know if posting this stuff make it better or worse. Seems sometimes like coming to the message board makes me ruminate more. Anyway, this is something I cannot accept, that I cannot control, and makes me feel pathetic that I still want my W back. I know in her mind, she's filed for divorce and probaby feels that she's not accountable to me, all the while needs to keep the peace.

As hard as this is to deal with, I recognize that I cannot focus on it. If I make it an issue, I give it more energy, W feels like she's got to reassure me, I look weak. If I say "you're lying," she just says "you don't trust me." Then she moves on to, let's just alternate weekends without having to tell each other what we're doing, because that's the way it's going to be anyway when this is done.

I read most of "No more Mr. Nice Guy" last night. Some things don't apply, some things do. I certainly have made my wife my emotional center.

I talked to the Retro guy last night, got all the info. Still need to hear back from MIL if she can take the kids. W was concerned if we were going to have to share a room, which is indeed how they have it set up, although we can get seperate beds. Hopefully she doesn't use this as an excuse to pull out. The overall cost (registration + suggested donation) is $700 - again, I hope she doesn't use this as an excuse.

I feel like I'm putting a lot of pressure on mysef here to do things right or wrong - sometimes I feel like I'm taking some risks and I'm clearly "off the reservation", but I also feel like I've got some instincts about what my W is going to respond to.

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#1845379 - 09/26/09 05:11 PM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
karen43 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 4886
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: BillM
Anyway, this is something I cannot accept, that I cannot control, and makes me feel pathetic that I still want my W back. I know in her mind, she's filed for divorce and probaby feels that she's not accountable to me, all the while needs to keep the peace.

As hard as this is to deal with, I recognize that I cannot focus on it. If I make it an issue, I give it more energy, W feels like she's got to reassure me, I look weak. If I say "you're lying," she just says "you don't trust me." Then she moves on to, let's just alternate weekends without having to tell each other what we're doing, because that's the way it's going to be anyway when this is done.

I've felt like that too. But I think most of us here are just really loving, loyal and take our marriage vows seriously kind of people. The opposite of pathetic.

Couple thoughts I had while reading your post. The first that comes to mind is "Cheaters always lie". I've seen that many times, and I think it's true.

I do think you're questioning her about the OM and not doing anything when she lies to you is not a good strategy. Either drop it if you're not willing to set and maintain any boundaries, or set and maintain boundaries about what you find acceptable. I think it sounds like from what you say that your W is cake-eating and I don't think that strategy usually ever works.

I also tend to disagree with what your counselor is saying. You've met with her once now? I think she might have a better advice/counsel after she has met with you for a month or two hopefully. She seems to be suggesting more of the same, what you've been already been doing. I know when I first started reading your posts, I had one idea of you, you very much painted yourself as a self-involved workaholic. I have gotten a much different picture of you as a very loving family guy in the past couple months though. Do you have an appt. with her this week to update her about your sitch?

And btw, my idea about why your W was acting closer was b/c you did go out and GAL by going to that meeting, and she prob. wanted to reassure herself that you were still fully there for her when she feels like cake-eating, getting your emotional support, etc.
_________________________
Me 49
D13, S19

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#1845456 - 09/26/09 07:32 PM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: karen43]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
Well, pathetic or not, I'm doing better this weekend than previous. Guess I'm coming along. Not great, but, better.

Cheaters always lie. I think I've got to stop making this a factor. I know she's lying about some things, the rest I don't know. I think I have to drop this for now.

What's different about the last couple of days, is that I behaved in a way to make her feel desired. This "Mr Nice Guy" book is providing me some insight I think. I think I've tended to view intimicay as something to please her. To meet her needs. The difference is approaching her because it's what I want. To make her feel desired.

And again, I have some history to believe this is spot-on for my wife. Well, she's said as much. Karen, I don't know, I know this may seem like the wrong thing to do, but it did get a response from her. It seemed to confuse her motives. It made a difference. So, I'm going to monitor results. I feel like I need to stop being afraid of making mistakes - if it goes wrong, then I'll change. She's already filed for D, so not sure what else can go much more wrong.

I don't want to be dismissive - really - but it seemed to make an impact. But yeah, I'm seeing C again on Tuesday.

Yeah - if I'm a workaholic, i don't want to be. I've been extremely burned out. Again, this "Nice Guy" book has some insights - I've felt trapped by what I've felt I'm supposed to do. That's not an excuse. I need to get in a position to make choices from the view of what I want, not out of fear of failure, or some template in my head. I've got some things to figure out about how I deal with my job. Either change the way I feel about it / respond to it, or something else.

Regarding W being closer - well, the kids have been sick and kind of difficult lately. What she said, when I came home Thursday, was that now that she's getting NO attention from me, it's a lot harder than when she was getting SOME attention from me. It seems clear that she misses me, she misses the support, companionship, etc. At least to some degree. She said her C told her that she needed to be aloof (I'm paraphrasing), but she said that it's hard to do.

There is definitely still a connection there, FWIW.

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#1845600 - 09/27/09 03:55 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
Good grief, the urge to call her is so strong. To just talk to her, to "make sure there's nothing going on", to call her just because I miss her... the only reason I'm posting right now is to do something OTHER than calling her. Sheesh. Already called her this morning to tell her the boys are sick, etc. She sounded happy to hear from me.

Arg.

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#1845635 - 09/27/09 05:16 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
Eskimo Nell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Totally Isolated
This is the hardest part Bill, don't you think? The URGE to talk to the S.

Thanks for dropping in over on my thread - it was good to see you there and get some more encouragement. Looks like we both need all that we can get right now!

It's a beautiful day here in Aus and I am sat in my pyjamas in the study, trying to hide away from a day that couples and families are enjoying, this long, happy, family-oriented weekend.

As you read, I worked in the garden all morning to keep myself busy but after my shower, I just felt like a wilting flower. There's no-one around and everyone in the UK is still in bed, so it's not even like I could ring home right now! I hate being lonely - it's always been something that I despise and something that H knows that I have had nightmares over, for many years. Perhaps I had a premonition that this would be my lot in life again. (I had a previous 8 years relationship that went down the gurgler due to infidelity on bf's part).

Try to resist the urge to call your W at this time, Bill. It's when the urge is strong that we make the mistakes that we do, imho. You have called her once today about the boys (sorry that they are sick, by the way) and if you call again, you may be perceived as being pursuing. Take a leaf out of my book and go out and do something - you can't go far with the boys being unwell of course but there must be some stuff that you can do around the place to keep you away from the phone, right?!

Will check in again later but PLEASE, resist that urge! It won't serve you best right now.
_________________________
WAH 43; W 47
M 16; T 17
Cats 15 & 6
Bomb 27/05/09
ow 28/06/09

"It is only on the darkest night that we see the stars"

Started counselling 17/08/09

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#1845644 - 09/27/09 05:33 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: Eskimo Nell]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
I didn't call. smile It's too late now anyway, and I'm gonna go to bed.

Yeah, just poked around on the computer tonight.

Yeah, with the boys sick today, I just stayed around the house. Didn't do much at all. No GALing today. I actually did spend some time today filling out the financial paperwork for the lawyer. As crappy as that was, made me feel like I had control over something anyway. Went over our taxes and found W has more income than she claimed.

Talked to a friend today, and talked to my sister. Restful day is good, I feel a little cough lately too so hopefully it won't take hold. And as important as GALing is, I was kind of glad to have an excuse to not worry about it today. I'm feeling incrementally better than I have been, so that's good. I guess I miss her less than I did an hour or two ago. Getting on the message board helped.

Well, W is back tomorrow. We've got a Cub Scout function.

Uuuhhhggg, I don't know what she's done this weekend.

Well, she's still up for Retro, we talked about it this morning. I know she's resolute in her mind, not planning to budge, but we'll see what happens.

Thanks Nell, it's good to talk (or type I guess) - thanks for checking in. smile

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#1845905 - 09/28/09 12:44 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
Well, W came home.

Cuddled up to me a little bit. Rubbed my shoulders. Gave affection. Said that she thought the Retro weekend is going to be good.

Things are just a little different.

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#1845982 - 09/28/09 04:26 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485

Well, W happily sang while I played guitar tonight.

I pushed the intimcay too far now, she's shored up her boundaries. Said her friend told her she should get a vibrator so she can resist me, she thought that was funny. Need to pull back now and not pursue.

At one point when I was teasing her she asked me when I got so "saucy". Well I guess at least I'm projecting confidence.

Yeah, I'll consult with C. Figure out what's next.

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#1846000 - 09/28/09 06:36 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
Eskimo Nell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Totally Isolated
Bill,
((Well done)) on not calling - if you can keep yourself busy until you know it's too late in the evening to call, it always feels like you have conquered a big mountain - I know, because I have done it! May be nothing to others who find it easy to dismiss calls and texts but for us, it's huge. *Big pat on the back* to you my friend!

For anyone outside looking in, the scene of W singing and you playing guitar must have been just like looking in on the Waltons! I believe these to be dangerous times and, as you say next, she shored up her boundaries. This is pullback time and, from what I gather from the folk here who it has happened to, it's not pleasant. Prepare yourself.

Crass remarks from friends are harmful. There's nothing that you can do about them if your W chooses to think it funny and repeat them in front of you but I truly hope that you ignored the remark - if I had been told something similar, I would have been very hurt. You don't have to put up with that. It needs a stern put down and to my mind, that is for you not to have commented upon it. I wonder what you said? Typical of someone who has no idea of how hurt you are, or of what their precious friend is doing in her life - or to her family. Friends are as dangerous, if not moreso, than the WAS at this stage in the game.

For what it's worth, and I have viewed this in Oz's situation, to start detaching yourself a little would be a great thing. Start acting mysterious around W and make sure that you are the one to go to bed first. Take a 'mysterious' phone call from time to time and do the opposite of what you think W would be expecting of you in a given circumstance (time for 180's). Certainly sounds like she is cake-eating to me and (sorry for the upcoming 2x4) but you are putting the cake on a plate with a frilly doilly and almost feeding it to her off a silver fork! She is not feeling the consequences of her actions as you appear to be rewarding her ...

I'm not advocating that you go all out to spoil any baby steps that you have made and it would be foolish to jeopardise the Retro weekend but I see your W as having the best of both worlds right now. She's moving forth and yet still expecting to get comforts from you. Not acceptable my friend. I know that the temptations are great but you are leaving yourself open for more hurt Bill. Try to gather some strength and DB a little harder!
_________________________
WAH 43; W 47
M 16; T 17
Cats 15 & 6
Bomb 27/05/09
ow 28/06/09

"It is only on the darkest night that we see the stars"

Started counselling 17/08/09

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#1846097 - 09/28/09 02:00 PM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: Eskimo Nell]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
Hey Nell -

I know, I know. Karen, GIMA, and others have told me the same thing.

I know I've taken what C has said as license. Stepped over the line to pursuit. Still, if the main point for W is intimacay, I'm trying to figure out how to address this in her mind.

On Thursday, when she was seeking out hugs, saying how she missed attention, I thought I could reel her in. Her will was weak.

Now it just hurts so much more. I didn't spent the weekend doing much except thinking about all this. I'm still waking up every day and feeling devistated and heartbroken. I feel a great deal of pressure on myself to take responsiblity of my emotional life and get to feeling better.

Yeah, I know, I need to pull back.

I'm stuck. I mean I've got to admit, I still feel like I crave her. I've got to change my focus.

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