UPSIDE DOWN and struggling badly.

[JCJ]

Nell, this is the time to show yourself how strong you are. You can do this. Packing up and coming back to the UK is the very, very last resort and you are not even close to being there yet are you

Wise words from Michelle - believe nothing of what they say and half of what they do (or something to that effect). When they are in that fog their words do not reflect your entire relationship. Feelings change in a positive way as well as in a negative way.

We have all heard it. In fact, I heard nothing which in some ways was even worse. The most I have ever got out of my h is 'I don't know' to any question generally there was no response... so I stopped asking. His actions speak louder these days. He asked me out last Saturday and I turned him down as I was busy. Before last March he wouldn't speak to me!

You can do this.

[Sanderika]

Hi Nell,

I have been lurking about this weekend, not really posting.

Got issues here to deal with.

Please do not contact H. If you do not hear from him, let it be.

You have gone even further in your description of your H and his state of mind. I am even further convinced this is a MLC.

There is nothing you can do right now to bring him out of it. It has to be his journey. The OW is a product of it and he will tire of her and move from that relationship eventually. That is why you should not give it too much attention. Very, very few of these MLC affairs grow permanent.

You are doing well by working on you. It is understandable how difficult this is and you are entitled to days like this past weekend. The more you get out there the better off you will be. The more you GAL and practice a PMA behavior the better and quicker you will adjust to the sitch.

IMO, going back to the UK could produce:

Scenario #1: H decides after a short period of time that he truly misses Nell, the distance (going completely Dark and Detached) from Nell makes him realize he wants his marriage and pursues Nell to return.

Scenerio #2: H loves it that you are gone and gets along quite nicely without you and follows through with the sale of the home and it enables him to have the OW or whomever else he chooses and your marriage is over.

I have said this to you because there are always two or more possible outcomes to everything with a MLC H. I want you to realize that you cannot predict his behavior or manipulate the outcome of your choices, H is in a land of aliens. Aliens are not predictable because we know very little of them and likewise we know very little about the MLC H mind and what makes it tick.

Your best plan is to DB for you, DB your surroundings. H will and is noticing. H will like what he sees. With your changes it is hopeful to bring him home.

Your H is living in a personal h*ll right now that is a definite. We all have learned that while it appears they are happy it is really the very contrary. Their life is full of storms. Their minds never stop either. The lighthouse (Nell) is a welcome sight. The only way to make H calmer and forgiving is with repeated behaviors. H has to learn to trust Nell and feel it is safe again. They are very guarded with their emotions. Time and patience will draw them back.

You also must keep in mind that it may only be to bring about a friendship. I guess that is where I am at. I am wondering if I am only to ever get to the friendship stage and this is the end of the road for me. I am sorry, I am feeling down.

Nell carry on with hope, please have no expectations.

I stress to you to get busy because I do not want you to be where I am 4 years from now. I have come to realize lurking about that the quicker this is resolved the better. The longer the MLC continues the harder it is to reconcile a marriage. My sitch has lasted way to long. I do not really feel in my heart that we can overcome this. We have grown to be very different people. Time I suppose can also be a detriment.

Keep your chin up (((((Nell)))))...Look and move forward. You are doing better than you think you are.

Sanderika

[dolphin_05]

JCJ has provided you with such extraordinary wisdom, Nell. Read and re-read! She offers iinvaluable insight and I think she has given a clear perspective on your situation.

Focus on you, that's all you can change/control. You have no control over H or the time he spends with OW.

Try not to focus on what he says now or in the past. We've all heard those lines before. My H has said most of them before. Just last week he wanted a divorce so he didn't have to deal with me but when I reflected on this all our recent dealings had been initiated by him!

Take it easy, love yourself and don't forget to journal!

(((((Nell)))))

Cas

[Stronger]

Not getting on the boards too much could be a good thing, but I don’t think your counselor really understands what we do here. There is a lot of support here. As I’m sure you’ve already learned. There is no substitute for girlfriends, true, but this is pretty close. And what’s more, we’re all with you in a lot of ways.

If you want to contact him that’s up to you. I would give it a few days and wait for him to contact you. It’s part of not pursing. It’s part of showing him that you do have your own life.

That letter you found is laughable. Read all the posts….you’ll probably see that more than half of the WASs have written or said the EXACT same thing. Here we call it “the script”.

You MUST get out and meet people. I don’t want to see excuses about being alone in a new country. Surely you can get to a gym or a book club or a library….something where you are out of the house. Continue to look for a job. It may not have to be something you plan to keep long term but maybe something for you to do until you do come across something more your pace and in your field.

Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. Learn that and repeat it often.

I don’t know if you have read my posts, but if you do, I hope you find hope and encouragement there.

My H too left for an OW which he still won’t admit. He says he left first, then started up with her. Give me a break. Phone records prove otherwise. But I will never get him to admit that and I know he can’t. To admit that is to admit to being too low of a human being, so we agree to disagree, but I’ve never told him as much. Why bother? I understand he can’t and will never admit it.

Like JCJ, I’ve made progress and last January and this April things were BAD. If we had had the papers at either time, they would have been signed. I know now he’s grateful we did not and no papers have been signed. I don’t even think they’ve been drawn up even though he says they have been. He’s threatened me with them a few times, but I put a stop to that by telling him to go get them. Yet to see those papers.

Sanderika is right. This does sound like MLC. And these OW’s are a result not the cause. He needs to see this out and eventually, it will end. They most often, very often do. I don’t know if the OW sees that this dude is sort of “off” or what, but it does end.

By the way, I’ve never posted anything on FB about how to get rid of the OW. Really, I don’t know that you can do anything to get rid of her within legal limits immediately. You get rid of her by being the better option. It’s a long process but if you are patient and diligent you can.

I recently have had the great pleasure of pointing out to my H “Unlike some other people you’ve chose to associate with lately, through all of this, I have been loyal to you. I have stood by you. I have taken care of you and yours in many many ways. I deserve to be treated like I have been loyal and respectful.” He just stared at me for a moment, and I could tell it was sinking in. He had never really thought of it that clearly. Then he finally says “And how should I be treating you then?” I told him “That’s for you to figure out and decide.”

But since then, the effort to be respectful and loyal is noticeable. And that’s how I want to be treated.

[girlfromoz]

Hi Eskimo

Oh definitely don't even think about packing up and moving back to the UK. I know you are having a difficult time with not a lot of friends, but even just trying to get out and sit in the library and read or anything that gets you out and about and not sitting at home thinking and waiting.

Don't contact H unless you absolutely have to. As everyone here has told you your H is in alien territory at the moment and you have to try and look at him as though he is an alien, you can't let his moods and behaviour get to you.

Will be back after to see how you are.

(((Eskimo)))
Oz

[Eskimo Nell]

It's good having you here JCJ - and you are right. I have already flitted back to the UK in June and it didn't work - not for him or, more importantly, for me.

I am repeating the mantra this morning: Believe nothing of what they say and only half of what they do. Mind you, with having found that letter again, it's very hard to keep the faith when such words sting like they do - how could an honest man write such from the heart if he wasn't truly feeling it?

I have also stopped asking things of H. I don't like the answers so why beat myself up? I have tried, as you did, to turn him down but he shows like it doesn't matter to him anyhow. He is so negative toward me and his attitude really is that he does not care. I must say, you must have been doing well to have the turnaround that your H has shown.

In my lighter days, I can see that yes, I can do this and yes, H will one day come home - how could he not? On other days, I take his messages to heart and apply them to our life as I know it to have been and the evidence is so clearly there - he ain't ever coming home. Sorry that I am so negative but I can't shake this ...

[Eskimo Nell]

Hi Sanderika
Firstly, I'm sorry to hear you sounding so down - you are the one that normally keeps us going here so I am concerned about what is happening in your world?

I guess that each day, something new is revealed and it helps others to assist us more - in finding 'the script' yesterday, I just saw things a little clearer myself, despite that the outcome was negative. I know that these OW are often reactive on the part of a MLC but some work and I feel that H is going to be one of those - I know him too well and I know how he operates. He would not have done this if he had any doubts at all of making it so. I know that doesn't account for the tramp but she is digging her nails in to him and I don't see her letting go any time soon - she has too much to gain. She has baggage, he doesn't. He stands to be quite wealthy soon (if and when our house is sold) - why would she let that slip through her fingers??

Certainly, your Scenario #2 is what was evidenced when I went back to the UK in June. He didn't make one move toward getting me back. His emails merely supported my decision to be there and gave me advice for stuff that I should do in setting up my new life back there. I could not believe that this was a man who was so adamant that we should have ever emigrated in the first place!

I agree that he is in Alien territory right now but as for him living a personal h*ll, I'm not so sure anymore. I believe that he was but he has changed and I see more of the change everytime I see/hear from him. He is getting tired of our sitch and it's making him resent me - even if he didn't before. I won't comply with his wishes to make this all go away quickly and so I continue to incur his wrath.

I feel sorry that you have endured your sitch for 4 years - I certainly don't want to treat in your footprints, if you will forgive me for saying so. Like you, I mostly feel in my heart that this can not be overcome anymore. I don't have any expectations either and yet I don't know where to turn next. He has always been the one to support and hold me up and now he is the dog that is biting me, despite the pats that I have been giving.

Thanks again for your encouragements (((Sanderika)))

[girlfromoz]

Morning Nell (I will say Nell from now on rolls of the tongue easier)

I was beginning to wonder where you were.

The negativity is hard to shake everyone here can vouch for that.

The mantra of believe nothing etc is a good one, I have been doing that this morning as well.

Do you have something to do today that you can look forward to or is there something you can think of doing today. Depending on the weather in Perth at the moment why not go for a walk on the beach, sit and read or even just sit and let the peace of the ocean work its magic. Sorry if this sounds silly but that is how the ocean affects me and it is something I love to do, it brings a sense of peace and calm.

Oz

[Eskimo Nell]

Cas - you are right, of course. It's just so tough when you are in a negative trough to listen to any words of wisdom

I am reading all the time .. it's a wonder my eyes haven't dropped out, so I am twice as pleased that I went and visited my optometrist last week to ensure that all was well

I have been trying to focus on me a bit more, rather than what H has said and done - and even what he is saying now, but after the email that I have just picked up from him, I crash and burn all over again. The email is so benign - so matter of fact and I guess that I was hopeful of a bit more than that after having not seen him in 11 days and only one short and negative text last Thursday.

I do hear the hope in stories like yours but I just wonder if other H's have loved their W's more than mine has apparently loved me I know that he would be upset to hear me say that as he is ADAMANT that he has loved me throughout the years. The letter shakes my confidence in that and his actions now ... well, I need say nothing as you already know.

In starting to love myself today, I am going to take a panadol for this outragous headache which is gripping me like a vice. I just feel like crawling back in to my bed then but I feel that I should go get those weeds - I keep threatening them but they keep on getting away with it. I just wish that I had some real friends here to turn to - I think that having my 'virtual' friends here is wonderful, don't get me wrong, but I could really use some human comfort right now.

(((Thank you for listening - and caring)))

[girlfromoz]

Nell, you won't get any kind words from him in emails, texts or otherwise, my H has gone back to the matter of fact emails with no emotion whatsoever. It is what they do regardless of the length of time in between seeing you or talking to you, they have checked out so to speak.

I have read on a few posts but I can't remember which ones, that reiterate that they still do love us but it is buried deep under all the other crap going on in their heads, they have to find their way out of all that to find that love that was and is always there.

I am sorry about your headache, take the panadol and perhaps try and have a lie down and slowly try to relax your body and let your mind wander to something pleasant, I sometimes find that helps to relieve the tension which will be behind your headache.

I wish I could give you a real hug Nell, there is nothing better than human touch when we are down.

(((Nell)))

Oz