UPSIDE DOWN and struggling badly.

[Eskimo Nell]

Sanerika
Thanks for the vote of confidence! I especially liked that you say you are confident that H is watching me and that you feel that our M is not over! That is a positive in amongst all the negativity I am currently feeling.

H told me that he is looking for 4 things in his life: 1) To love 2) To be loved 3) To have a life and 4) To be happy in that life. He told me that he wished I was the girl who was 30 years old all over again - I told him that she was still here but he was failing to see her, there was just too much cr*p in the way and we could cut through that but we had to do it together. He keeps on saying that he can't as he just doesn't "believe it any more - our R is dead - it's about time that you heard it. I don't want what you want - my head is in a different place to yours". Hmm, too right on the last point!

I offered to meet with H last weekend for coffee - thinking that I could at least start to address some of the four things but he turned me down saying that he had a home inspection due on his rental and he had to make sure that all the domestic stuff was done! I know a brush-off when I hear one and so I have left him alone ever since - no contact at all.

You do not seem unkind at all - quite the contrary! If you were unkind, you would not have taken the trouble to write to me before you went off to work. I hope that you have had a good day :o)

Today I have started to formulate my plan - you may have seen in my other post that I went to the counsellor this morning. From there, I have pledged to work on my own issues and start to see who I am before I can give any more over to our M. If I can't get me right, how can I get us right?

Thank you for your pearls of wisdom - there are some wonderful human beings out there on this forum and none of us deserve this pain and misery, though I do believe that we will be better for the learning than will be our WAS's! (((Big Hugs)))

[Eskimo Nell]

Phew, I'm back - I've had a hectic day, starting with my counselling session this morning, which went very well. It was good that I cried one tear - that's one more than I have in ages!

Now then, down to the advice:

Everything that you are saying is correct - yes! I have read DR - in fact, there's a copy on my desk as I type this to you. I can especially identify with the characters Carol and Dean on page 181 onwards.

You are so right JCJ - the techniques are counter-intuitive but I am hanging in there and I have now made it for two days without contacting WAH - yes, I was email/text and phoning him which has not worked! Everything in me is screaming out to tell him how I have achieved a 180 today (putting salt in the pool after carrying 50kgs of it all on my own) and yet I know that he would take that so much in his stride - its what he does all the time but it's a huge achievement for me. Yes, I have been totally reliant upon him, which I now know was wrong.

I wouldn't identify with any thing that has caused his MLC in the timescale which you specify but I think that me being out of work since February, coupled with my difficulties in settling in a new country have probably not helped. The more I talked to my counsellor this morning, the more I realised that you are right and H was longing for a break from all his responsibilities. I came out feeling so elated that I had learned a few more things and yet I was sad that H won't consider joining me in counselling as I think that he would have learned about me too from what I revealed. I am positive about my work in the next few weeks with my counsellor.

I don't know if H is still having the EA because we do not talk about it. He feels too guilty and I get too angry. I told him that I thought it was all off and he didn't say yes or no but he was around last weekend and he made me believe that he was not going away this weekend either. (He is currently staying about an hours drive from our home). How do I get to know what's going on there if he won't tell me ... also, trying not to have contact with him also stops me from reading in to things and not seeing him means that I don't get to see the non-verbals! I guess that I just have to wait until he is ready to see/speak to me and then try to read him at that stage.

I hear you on the job front and I am trying! I did do some agency work for five weeks, which I kept quiet about so that I could tuck some money away for my own safety net, however someone told him and he has since demanded that I pay half for everything, even though having done so for August has now used up all of my funds. He was furious about this but I suppose that I can understand his point of view - he just won't see mine.

Thanks for the (((hug))) - it gives reassurance and comfort when there is none coming from other quarters!

[Eskimo Nell]

SDFoundGirl
Thanks for passing on the Top Ten Tips ... so much of it makes sense - it's all about sitting down and writing out goals, plans and how to achieve what allows WAH to have space ... stretch his elastic and not pull him back.

Today, my counsellor told me about a book to get hold of, so I thought that I would share it with others who may be reading this. It's called Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch - I have just booked it at our local library so can't comment yet. C tells me that its about intimacy in the marriage and may help in knowing how to talk to WAH when he is good and ready! Anything is worth a try I suppose - isn't that what we are all doing here?!

My light bulb is starting to glow!

[Eskimo Nell]

Is this a baby step?
H has just replied to an email I sent almost three days ago. Mostly practicalities but telling me how to go about stuff that I have already done ... H was also concerned about a medical check-up that I had the day before yesterday and has asked me to let him know the outcome ...

Now, do I reply or maintain my current silence, which is of course very tempting??? If I do stay quiet, I know that he will accuse me of playing games, as he has before when I maintained silence for a few days. Maybe I should reply, thanking him for his instructions, tell him that I have already completed the domestic tasks (a good 180!) and once again another thank you for his concern re my medical condition (which is not serious, readers)! What do you think???

[girlfromoz]

Hi Eskimo, as promised here I am.

You seemed to be impressed with the counselling and I am glad it went well, thank you for the phone numbers, it might be something I do in the future. I don't think I am at that point yet, but I will be doing the DBusting counselling, I have bought a phonecard, just have to make the appointment for Friday hopefully, have to wait for H to not be here.

My only advice for replying to emails from my own recent experience is to be business like, not rude or sarcastic though and not long winded. This is the advice given to me by some wonderful wise people here who have more experience than me and so far it has worked well for me.

We are only at the beginning and still learning, but we will get there, I have found coming here to be the best medicine for me, I have a laugh and feel loved at the same time.

Also I know you are trying but once you get a job it will make a huge difference to you, not just financially but emotionally as well. I work with a small but great bunch of people who know of my situation and are very supportive especially my boss.

Big hugs to you Eskimo. Try to keep smiling.

Oz

[Sanderika]

Hi Nell,

Any non-confrontational contact H makes to you is good contact and a positive at this point regardless of the context.

I am not sure if I would call it a baby step yet. H is maintaining the contact as one of the ways he is keeping track of you and watching you.

For him to still care about the household is a positive. For him to still care about your health and apparent well being is an even bigger positive.

When my H left he fled. He couldn't have given a rat's a$$ about our home, son or me. He went from being a good husband to a cold dead fish almost overnight. He even told people who inquired with him...."none of that is my problem anymore".

This is why I stress to you to do a 180 and now. Nell this is your chance to nip this in the bud. And, yes it is possible.
I firmly believe if relationship troubles are not rectified early on they become more difficult with time to reconcile. In a MLC we commonly hear they can last from anywhere up to 7 years.
In my case we are just heading into year number 5.

You need to change your ways and they must stick. In my sitch, even before I ever heard of DB, I changed immediately. Even though I worked my butt off and changed H was gun-shy. He accused me of being fake and phony from the beginning of my changes to approx. 15 months later. Of cource my H had OW and that is why he left. I learned early on that H words were really her words. I will save that for another time. That has been pure h*ll in my world.

At this point in time.....YOU REPLY.

You want him to see changes, if you maintain silence right now he won't. You don't have any children and he is over an hour away, you need to sieze opportunities for contact.

In your reply you use words that make H feel good. In your words you make sure you validate H thoughts and feelings and always say thank you. Your words must be upbeat and fun. As H reads your email you want him to be shaking his head....yes. You want him to be smiling... If something funny happened to you while you were working on things and you think he would laugh, tell him that too.

On the chores...keep it simple. If you divulge to many details you will come across as whining. Thank him for instructing and tell him his way works best because it was easy, or something like that.

On the medical...tell him exactly what he wanted to know. Give the details of the visit (as much as you would share ordinarily).
Give the details of a prescribed medical plan for the diagnosis, if it applies here. Thank him very much for asking, state that you appreciate his concern.

Keep in mind, a MLC H only does what he wants to and when. If he asked you questions on an email he wanted to ask and he wants to know.

You will work very hard before you see any glimpse of baby steps from H. Baby steps are more likely to come only after H has been reassured that things in Nell's world have changed. Baby steps are taken when a WAS actually is thinking about you and the marriage and possibly saving it. From what you are describing your H is not in that place right this minute.

Get busy girl, you need to get him thinking. You need to change his negative thinking about you and the marriage. You need to create good feeling positive thoughts of you and the marriage and the home.

Your H is not cutting off contact. Therefore you have lots of chances and choices. It's up to you how you handle each and every one.

You can turn this around and you can do it!!!! I know this because I did it!!!! My sitch was absolutely hopeless when it started. I am proof positive that friendships can be re-created and D can be held at bay. It's time and patience and DB.

(((((Nell)))))

Sanderika

[SDFoundGirl]

Why don't you post your possible email response to H here and we can give you feedback? Keep it easy, breezy and upbeat.

BTW, in an earlier post you commented about not being able to read into your H's behaviors because he's not around. YOU SHOULD NEVER TRY TO READ INTO YOUR H'S BEHAVIORS. First, you have no idea why he's doing what he's doing. Second, that would mean you are making changes for him instead of for yourself, and the honest truth is that you will eventually become resentful if the focus is on him instead of YOU. Yes, you're hoping H notices the positive changes, but the changes have to be ones you're making for yourself to make you stronger, smarter and healthier in life.

SD

[Eskimo Nell]

Hi my 3 trusted musketeers (girlfromoz; Sanderika and SDFoundGirl)!

Your advice is spot on .. and I am going to run with it. I must read more about the 180 and solution focussed approach today - I don't think that I have quite got a grip on what I need to be doing yet. I guess that practise will make perfect?!

Oz - I totally agree that coming here is the best medicine. For me it fills time, I learn, feel supported and genuinely feel that I am able to learn some good things to assist in saving my M. Glad that the phone numbers are on standby for you - just incase. Good luck with you telephone counselling - and getting H out of the house for long enough so that you can make the call. Let us know how it goes.

Sanderika - I hear your words - again encouraging that H is watching me. Yes, I do believe that he still cares. In a lighter moment recently, he said that he can't just stop loving me after having spent 17 years together, so I feel that is a good sign but his behaviour does not support that love. I feel so sad that your H left and didn't give a 'rats a$$' as you say. At least I have seen the pain that my WAH has experienced. I have seen the tears and the turmoil - I know that he is a good person and this decision has been the hardest that he has ever made in his life.

Last night I started doing some more thinking (the counselling evidently exacerbated my thought patterns) and I saw the problems that I have created - I have been very cold to him at times but purely in a response to his emotional shut-down. I started blaming myself, which I know that I must not do but it seemed that to tell him all that I was thinking may be the admission of fault that he could be waiting for? I wanted to write a heart-to-heart letter, as some here have done, but I don't think that he would read it ... as earlier, he feels that it's just going over old ground - even though there would be new revelations.

I'm horrified to think that this could last 7 years, due to MLC! Good on you for hanging in there for the 5 years you have spent. How did you manage to recreate a friendship with your H? My WAH wanted us to remain friends but I foolishly told him that he could not have the penny and the bun (IF he is still in EA with OW). On Friday evening when he was here, he told me that he thought it probably was not possible any more because of the way I am acting.

SDFG - I'm taking Sanderikas comment's and doing as you suggest, posting my email reponse here for your feedback. I hear that I should make the changes for myself and I am truly working on that!

(Pet Name)?
Thanks for your email about salting the pool. I appreciate that you took time to explain the way that you would do it and following your instructions, I find that the outcome was far better than the way I had planned to go about it - probably saved me one very large cold bath too! I bought some rubber gloves as I didn't fancy putting my hand in the skimmer box with all those dead bugs - you know me and creepy crawlies!! Anyhow, outcome is all well and I appreciate that you will take a look at the filter boxes when you are here next, as you have offered.

I hope that you were not unduly concerned over my [medical issue] but I don't want you to worry. The follow-up visit on Tuesday worked out just fine and the plan is for me to be reviewed again in a year's time. I am sending the results of the test home to Julian so that there is a complete record of my history in the UK as well as in Australia. Today I have to go for my medical screen (a different one) and again I shall let you know the outcome of that result when I get it. We can talk more about if you want fuller details, when you are here next, as above.

I hope that work is going OK for you and all is well.

(How do I close this email - do I put my name, pet name, hugs and kisses ... what)?!!!

Thank you for your advice and please tell me if the email is about right or absolutely way off whack ... !

[SDFoundGirl]

I'd recommend dropping the pet names and using given names. Close it with something like..."Again, thanks for your input. I'll talk to you sometime soon. [Your name]

BTW, *no* heart to heart letters. He doesn't want to hear it, and it will push him farther away. Light, friendly, upbeat, no R talk. I went down that path, and all it did was make my H tell everyone I was a complete alien (yes, those exact words...after I got over being ticked, it made me laugh).

You know, MLC ranges in severity, and 7 years is the extreme. My H had a very mild MLC...and I think DBing plus him being a sincerely good man (and I say this even though he was writing unsent love letters to another woman at the time) plus him being an honestly reflective and soul-searching person helped keep this short.

I also found DB early in our sitch, and once I learned the techniques, I didn't waver. In my mind I'd decided I would not do ONE thing from that day on to give him ammunition/an excuse to walk away and blame me. If he was going to walk away, he was going to have to do so with the full knowledge it was about his attraction to that bimbo and not because of me...because I really listened, and I addressed (without saying anything) every single concern on his list.

In short, he'd have to be a bad guy, and H just can't see himself that way.

But treat this like a marathon, not a sprint. It's why GAL is so important. I can honestly say that the summer of the bomb was one of the most fun summers I've ever had, and also that I am grateful to my H for dropping the bomb. Our M is so much better now...we communicate our needs and tell the truth to each other always. I know, after all we've been through, that I could tell H anything and he'd support me.

Start a gratitude journal. Every day, record what you're thankful for. Put your attention on your blessings and not on the negatives. You'll be surprised how doing that each day for 5-10 minutes will feel.

SD

[kara]

Eskimo Nell

Hi.

You're getting some good advice here.

Since you are now starting DB and your H seems to be in MLC the best thing I can say to you is be PATIENT. And when you are finished being patient be patient some more. Patience and self control are the keys. It can be a long ride, so make sure you have the staying power.