Hello. Never thought I'd be here...I'm sure others can relate to that statement. Basics on my sitch are below and would love some feedback from other DBers on how to cope.
Me 39 Him 41 Married 17 yrs Together 21 yrs One son, 4
Too many problems to list completely here that contributed to our current state and his emotional detachment from our R, but basically he dropped divorce bomb on me this spring. Should have been the other way around b/c he has been emotionally abusive to me and our son since moving 3 yrs. ago to this "hellmouth" we live in. I'll try to be brief and keep things to the highlights. Here goes...thanx in advance for reading.
In 1997, I was the WAW telling him I wanted a divorce b/c I was unhappy with our R, and I guess he's resented me ever since. So he's held me in contempt for a long time and held on to that pain. Actually, I think he's held on to pain for his whole life and now I'm the easiest target to blame for it all. I have been guilty of financial infidelities through the years (all of which I argue were for ultimate good, like getting a 2nd master's degree, infertility treatment, etc.), so that has changed the way he sees me.
Fast forward to 2000, then we had a lot of trouble conceiving a child...more resentment of me b/c he wanted to be a father sooner, I should have just "lost the weight" like he said to avoid infertility. (How callous is that?) I had several miscarriages, but after changing my life and getting healthy, embracing alternative treatments, got pregnant without any infertility drugs or treatments and have a perfect little boy.
In 2006, our world blew apart. One of his best friends was brutally murdered and that led to a series of decisions that has basically trashed our lives. He moved b/c he thought he was getting me out of job in which I was horribly maltreated after having our son, getting us closer to family, out of debt, and getting him closer to his friend's murder investigation. We moved for all of the wrong reasons. Our life pre-move was pretty great. We had a nice house and owed very little money on it. We had lots of comforts in terms of our jobs and great friends, great lifestyle. Because of our friend's murder, H was still in no place to make such a life altering decision. Everything about our life post-move sucks. Our jobs are more complicated here, our salaries are much worse, healthcare is terrible, everything. We tried to move back to our old city in a different state within the first year, but I couldn't find a job. His was waiting for him to return... More resentment of me! I tried so hard to find a job and spent all of my time doing it. We should have just moved back on one salary because maybe I wouldn't be here right now.
So now he resents me for all of it---he hates his job, hates where we live and hates that his life is like this. All of his hate and rage over everything in our life together gets blamed on me. He detached from "us" b/c he says that the last straw was a big fight that we had where I told him that I hated him. I just hated the way he was treating me and our son. He screamed at us, threw things, told me to "Get out!" all the time. I wasn't supportive of him through his friend's murder because I just didn't know what to do and our son needed at least one of us to be "normal" and take care of him; he just wanted to rage at me and I withdrew for my own emotional and our son's emotional safety. He obsessed over getting revenge and justice for his friend's murder. And when I wouldn't get on the "victim" boat with him, that's when I think he detached.
Now he's made me the victim. After he dropped the bomb, I did all of the wrong things: begged, pleaded, fell apart, told him that I couldn't live without him. He was shocked. He thought I was in the "same place" as him b/c I had been saying I wanted a divorce. But I was just in pain too and my reverse psychology backfired. I had no cards left to throw out other than divorce. What a mistake!
I asked if there was OP involved, if he was in love w/someone else. He said no. But, I just couldn't believe he felt this way. My Dad said, "There is always another woman." So that led me to do some digging. I found out that he'd been calling this OW for the past year talking about their friend's murder. He denied anything physical, which I believe b/c she was in CA. But, they emailed 10x/day, called when I wasn't home, and spent a lot of time together emotionally. I confronted him about what I called the emotional affair. Again denial...”we're just friends” who bonded over our friend’s murder.
Then in April 2009, I found a box of condoms (with only one missing) in the garbage! He registered with Ashley Madison. I confronted him with this evidence and he said that yes, he'd "looked into" having an affair, that he wanted to have an affair. But that he couldn't go through with it b/c that was not the kind of lifestyle he could live, that he wanted more than a one-night stand. He denies ever acting on those desires, and I believe him. He threw the condoms away b/c he couldn't "do that to me" and especially now knowing that I want to save the marriage.
Ok, so I pick myself up from all of this and try to believe that nothing happened with the OP he was calling. I have been DBing, GALing, trying to have a plan for a new life for myself. Then I do a total non-DB thing thinking I'm going to "trust but verify" and put surveillance software on our computer. (I wear the IT belt in our family.) Well, I found out that he'd been emailing someone else, his therapist! He'd been seeing her for over a year in therapy. H said he was done with therapy in April but asked therapist if he could call her if he needed help until our friend's murderer was going to be sentenced on June 1st (ironically today). Therapist/social worker should not have allowed this "friendship" to continue, but I believe she was interested in having an affair with my H. Since mid-April, they have been calling a few times each week, emailing, and he saw her once in her office as a non-patient. HUGE violation of social worker ethics. But I digress. Then I found emails from only her, in a private email account H created where she professed that he was a gift to her, that her heart ached when they were not together, that she wished it wasn't so complicated and that she "could not walk away..." Well, you can imagine how I reacted. I've been a basketcase! I trapped her into emailing me and confronted them both. They both deny it was anything more than a friendship, but I believe she was targeting him for an affair. I think my H was flattered by her attention and I know he finds her attractive. She's one of those women who uses their sexuality to control men, chew them up and spit them out. Aside from the professional ethical violations, this was totally disrespectful to me. I even poured my heart out to his social worker in January worried about H b/c he was so despondent, depressed, and got very drunk. I told her how much I loved him and wanted to help him through this crisis, that I was tired of fighting, that he’d been emotionally abusive to us. Bottom line, she exploited their relationship for her own personal gain…that is until I put a dead stop to it.
H agreed to have NO CONTACT with either of these people again. I threatened to report his therapist and, no surprise, he came to her rescue saying he wants to put all of this behind us and that he doesn’t want her kids to suffer b/c of her mistake. He didn't even want me to bring any of this up in MC!!!! He didn't even want me to tell my C about it. What a hypocrit! He expects me to get over this in 2 weeks when he hasn't been able to get over anything from the past 12 years! That's the utter irony b/c even if I forgive and forget, he's "still in the same place with our marriage." He said it was his fault with his therapist b/c he asked her to keep in contact. Ugh. His loyalties are so misplaced b/c she “helped him” with his grief over his friend’s murder. He says he was just as surprised about her pouring out her love for him.
Yesterday, I confronted this woman in public and swore up and down the street with our son nearby. H restrained me (instead of taking our son away) and now I have bruises all over my arms. It felt good for me b/c I was able to tell her what an awful person she was and humiliate her in public. Problem is I know that it was embarrassing to my H and he's disgusted with me. He says I've been acting irrationally, which I have. But given the circumstances, I feel entitled. I was really evil in doing it that way. But I’ve been in so much pain and neither one of them seems to even care or have any remorse for what they were doing!
Now H wants nothing to do with me. I'm alone with all of this pain, betrayal, and humiliation and he keeps saying that he did nothing more than shake her hand. I needed to emotionally vomit on her for what she tried to do to my family and how she tried to exploit my H via their therapist/client relationship. It makes me so sick. He can't even see how wrong it was. It has been eating me alive to the point of not being able to function. So I don’t regret what I did. But it seems that it just pushed H more away.
Now we are at a standstill. I think H wants a divorce now more than ever. From the beginning, I have said that I wanted to work on things. Financially we are stuck b/c of the economy. I just can't seem to stop backsliding. Maybe this means I'm really done with this M now too? Maybe I have to walk away… I just can’t take any more pain, and I know a divorce will eat me alive.
Anyone have even a crumb of advice? Especially from the men out there? I did a 180 today and said that I don't know if I want to save this marriage anymore either. We just need peace for our son's sake and need to stop talking about the R. That we can agree on. The worst part is that I still love him despite the disrespect, betrayal, lies, and cold-heartedness. He says that he "cares about me deeply" and still loves me. He just doesn't love our relationship and doesn't know if he can ever feel differently about me. It hurts so much. When I found out about the therapist, we had sex for the first time in months! So there is still love. I just want to curl up in a ball and go to sleep for a long time... My optimism is quickly drying up.
Me 39, H 41 M 17, T 21 Son, 4 Bomb 2.09, Two EAs Separated 8.4.09 My Long Story and First Postings
Oh, just to add one point of clarification...even though he is the one who wants the divorce, he refuses to move out b/c we can't support two households. He is at the proverbial "fork in the road" with working on the marriage vs. divorce. Financially, it would be a disaster for us b/c we owe more on our brand new house than it is worth. We'd have to file for bankruptcy. He knows that and wants to look at our finances soon.
So I think he just wants to co-habitate for...well...for as long as we need to! He'll be happy with just getting back to a "place of peace," but that equals death to me b/c I've been living like this for almost three years now. That has been slowly killing me b/c it means that I can't move on with my life. I want to find a new husband and have more kids before I'm too old.
Last edited by eternaloptimist; 06/01/0909:03 PM.
Me 39, H 41 M 17, T 21 Son, 4 Bomb 2.09, Two EAs Separated 8.4.09 My Long Story and First Postings
From the outside looking in, these emotional outbursts have to stop. Do not agree to the divorce, have him know that you are not on board with that, he thought you were on board with it before and now you are lying to him again about it.
It is time to be a better you, work on yourself, because from what I am hearing there is a bunch to work on.
The resentment of him must stop if you want to work on a healthy relationship. Truly forgiving him for where you are now is the first step, and a big one at that. Only then will you be free to go forward to what you ultimately want, if it is not too late. Look to the future and forget about the past.
You do have things going for you because of his inability to move out, and his professed love for you, that is an oddity around here. Time to put 180's that work in place. Like being pleasant, working out, getting a life outside of the house. And quit being so bitter about everything, I know that some places seem to suck, but even the nastiest towns have nice areas and fun things to do. Start to be more like your name, and not the eternal pessimist that you come across.
Hi and thanks for your response! I agree that I have to gain control of my emotions. I have been panicking for 6 months now because the pain is so great. I know that makes me unattractive. I also know that if I bottle up my feelings, I'll become sick. I feel so betrayed b/c I stayed with him through all of his rage and emotional abuse, hoping that after today he'd start to heal from our friend's murder. And for him to then announce that HE wants a divorce? I felt blind-sided. I guess that is normal.
I have been GALing. I've lost over 20 lbs. since the bomb and I have been working out every two days. I do work outside of the home and have been a very successful professional, soon will be earning more than him in fact. So I already have a pretty full life without him. I am planning to go on a vacation with our son without him. He was invited but declined to come.
Today I am bitter and probably came across that way in my post. The vacillating between working on things and divorce is making me mental. But, honestly, I am the positive one in this relationship. I have been telling him that we have strengths in our R and have never really tried to work on things. He gave up on us having a baby and I never did; I forged on, healed myself, and voila we have a son! I have been trying to be the eternal optimist lately, carrying the marriage flag by myself, reading DB and DR and everything I can get my hands on about why working it out would be better for our family. I've done really well in MC sessions, not talking too much and just validating all of his feelings. I even agreed to not discuss the EAs in counseling and even showed concern that, after he cut off contact with these women, I know it must have been hard for him to not have their support anymore! Ok, so is that not putting myself and my hurt second???? Before I found out about his relationship with the therapist, I was doing well with DBing. But a person can only take so much.
The hardest part for me is this...how can I forgive these infidelities in only a few weeks since their revelation when he hasn't been able to forgive me for anything for the past 12 years? I can forgive him. But if I do and it still doesn't change the way he feels, I'll feel victimized and rejected yet again! He can't forget the past, which is why we are stuck here. He has said to me that "the past is the predictor of the future."
Me 39, H 41 M 17, T 21 Son, 4 Bomb 2.09, Two EAs Separated 8.4.09 My Long Story and First Postings
I answered your initial post about three times already today and then deleted my response b/c I didn't really know where to start with everything you wrote. My first response ends up being my current thought, which is .... slow down, Eternal. You have chaotic emotions. You have a chaotic relationship. Your H is upside down. You have been betrayed, feel unloved and - worst of all - you are afraid. That is like taking a drink of water from a fire hydrant, sister!!!!
So...break it down so you can slow it down.
When on an airplane, what are you told to do if cabin pressure is lost. Apply the oxygen mask to yourself FIRST, and then to your child. Translated - gather yourself together so you can best tend to the needs of your little guy. Sleep enough. Eat enough. Laugh enough. Exercise enough. Be still.
Bite your tongue...for now. That would be a 180...no? Several reasons to bite it for now ~~~ first and foremost, you are not thinking clearly at this time. You are hurt, hurt, hurt - who can think in that state? And you don't want to speak without thinking first whenever possible.
Another reason to bite your tongue for the time being is so that you can LISTEN. Gather intel from you H. Information is power. Information will help you CONSIDER what to do next, Eternal. And hey, by the way, listen not only to what he SAYS but...what he DOES. Let it all inform your decisions.
Finally, bite the tongue and THINK. Give yourself TIME to process all of this MESS. Get in front of it by thinking it all through and considering why you have reacted in the ways you have. There is intel in that, as well, and you NEED to understand that as you go forward.
Eat the elephant...one bite at a time.
Cheers ~~~
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
Aw, thanks, Greek, so much for your post and your time to reach out to me. I can't thank you enough. All good advice. I'm not a woman of few words, obviously LOL, so biting my tongue and listening more will be a 180. My 180s seem to work sometimes. Otherwise, he thinks I'm being insincere.
He has said to me over and over again the things that I should be doing. He keeps saying that I'm rushing him, expecting too much too soon. I have really screwed up. We were at a good place last week. He was willing to work on things for a year. Now he wants to sit down on Wed. night to look at all of the options.
I am a mess. I am hurting, hurting, hurting. It took us 14 years to have our son, so my sitch is just ripping apart the very fiber of my being.
Me 39, H 41 M 17, T 21 Son, 4 Bomb 2.09, Two EAs Separated 8.4.09 My Long Story and First Postings
Again, you have to settle yourself down, and look at this thing rationally, this wednesday act in a calm manner and validate anything he says. And remember it may not be the truth from him, so take it all with a grain of salt and then see if his actions back up with what he says.
You will get nowhere until you check your emotions. With the way you write and explain things you are driving me away a little, hopefully you are just venting, do you know what I am saying?
Sorry, Burt, don't mean to drive you away. I do appreciate your comments and the constructive criticism, realizing that I'm in an extremely vulnerable place right now. Yeah, I am *big time* venting b/c I only found out about the EA 2 weeks ago! I need to process all of this to get beyond it. This has been a double-betrayal b/c the EA was with his therapist. I try to operate on a higher plane when it comes to integrity and honor and all of this makes me so sick to my stomach. I used to think my husband was on that higher plane with me, now I'm not so sure.
Thanks for the reality check too. Could you elaborate on the things YOU think I need to work on from a guy's perspective, besides the emotional outbursts? I'm going to be calm on Wednesday and VALIDATE, VALIDATE, VALIDATE. That seems to work really well, so I'll continue to do it. No cheeseless tunnel there. I have got to stop thinking about him all the time, worrying about him, and monitoring his computer use b/c it only keeps me in that emotional, chaotic place that he has been in for several years. Thanks for your support. I do value it.
Me 39, H 41 M 17, T 21 Son, 4 Bomb 2.09, Two EAs Separated 8.4.09 My Long Story and First Postings
Do not take my posts as if you are going to "drive" me away, I am here to help, I have been where you have been, and I have lived through it, but I changed my life and attitude toward pretty much everything.
The reason for my seemingly harsh response is that you come across as an emotional wreck and one that would drive pretty much anyone away from you. You then justify your actions by blaming your H, something that has to stop between you two. Way too much blame going around. I have found when one stops blaming the other, the other stops blaming as well. Hard to be mean to someone that is so nice and respectful in return, of course we do not want to be a doormat either. But a respectful, "I do not wish to be spoken to this way, and if you continue I will have to leave" and gosh I can see how you feel that way". Just nothing nasty in return thats all.
Now, have you joined a gym yet, or started needle pointing, what do you like to do?
Hi, Burt. Thanks for your support. Points well taken.
Oh, Puppy has responded about the EA with great perspective. I think the EA I'm dealing with is very unusual though. I can't quite figure out what is truth vs. fiction. I think focusing on the EA simply isn't going to get me anywhere positive anyway...so I'm going to just move past it. I have to get out of the emotional chaos.
I have tons of hobbies/interests. I am planning to start painting again with the goal of having an exhibition. My GALing efforts are limited unfortunately. I'm working out religiously at home b/c it is more convenient for me. As of today, I lost 25 lbs! So I know that has been good for me. Wish I could work less right now b/c I know that has always been an issue in our relationship, that I have devoted too much time to my career. I have 2 master's degrees. But, I'm pretty overwhelmed with my profession right now to devote time to hobbies. (I'm faculty on the tenure track if that means anything to you.) Any free time I have, I spend with our son.
Me 39, H 41 M 17, T 21 Son, 4 Bomb 2.09, Two EAs Separated 8.4.09 My Long Story and First Postings
So I know that has been good for me. Wish I could work less right now b/c I know that has always been an issue in our relationship, that I have devoted too much time to my career. I have 2 master's degrees. But, I'm pretty overwhelmed with my profession right now to devote time to hobbies. (I'm faculty on the tenure track if that means anything to you.) Any free time I have, I spend with our son.