H is still not speaking to me! I was speaking to my BF's husband and he asked me to pass on his best to H. I text him and he ignored my message. His threat to have nothing to do with me has apparently not changed!
I agree with you that H did not like what I had to say at all. In fact, I strongly agree that what I said to him really did 'hit him in the face' and he had to move into anger mode because he couldn't really deny it. I had hit him with the truth. So, instead of denying or accepting my words he threw all the divorce threats at me and proceeded to tell me I was crazy. It then became my problem instead of his. Now he has reasserted his power by refusing to speak to me.
H asked D where I was going for the few days. I do tell my kids where I am going and what I am doing but I have never asked them to tell him or not tell him. There's no secrecy......especially since I only go places for work or with family and friends. While I don't set out to tell H everything, I really don't care if he knows where I am going and I would tell him if he asked so I don't think it creates any real pressure for the kids. When H left he had nothing to do with the kids so I spent a great deal of time 'fixing' the problem and talking to the kids about love and forgiveness. I deliberately worked with the kids to move to a position of love for their Dad. I would never ask them to choose one of us over the other.
Sanderika, Thanks so much for your insights. I always find them so helpful and your perspective is most appreciated. I am finding things difficult at the moment so it is heartening to have support.
Sorry you are having to put up with that behaviour from him. I'm just trying to think through some solutions.
For him silence is power, you know I have this ongoing thing with my h about him being 'busy'. Jody gave me a few ideas a while ago about how to deal with it. Here are a few phrases she gave me to use...
'I continue to get the feeling that you're too busy for friendship. I understand that right now you don't have a lot of time. I don't want to be another item on your to-do list so if things change, give me a call.'
Or 'I notice that a lot of your emails start with 'I'm sorry'. I don't want the dynamic of our relationship to be this way so I'm going to leave it to you.'
I think in DBing sometimes we let bad behaviour go because we are afraid to address it. But really, what have we got to lose? In fact Jody has never shied away from addressing negative behaviour by my h.
Could you send him a message saying something like.
'Hi H, I know we had some cross words the other day and I am sorry for that. I know that I have enjoyed the family time we have spent together lately as have the kids. If you want to drop over sometime let me know, however I'll leave it with you.'
I don't know, something like that. It just takes away the battle by you saying you know what, it's fine, do whatever you like as I am not bothered. Just takes away the power struggle.
If he responds negatively saying he only wants to communicate about the kids just say 'no problem'. If he feels heard I'm sure he'll start communicating about more than the kids soon. Or of course, he could respond positively.
Thanks Oz. I see that you are putting in an application for a new place. Good luck with that! I see also that you live on the Mornington Peninsula. Lovely!
You are right! Silence is power for him. He does this every time he gets angry and then if I apologise he refuses to accept the apology or does so begrudgingly. The other day the comment was that he was going to get a divorce so he didn't have to deal with me again. I found it quite humorous when I thought about it later given that it was H who invited me to dinner after the formal, it was H who came into the house after the football. If I was so difficult why would you bother? So thanks for that thought.
Tonight I sent him a brief text just to say thanks for having the kids while I was away. He replied ok.
I loved your suggestions from Jody and appreciate you sharing them with me. I feel I have a couple of ways to go here;
It could be as you suggest: 'Hi H, I know we had some cross words the other day and I am sorry for that. I know that I have enjoyed the family time we have spent together lately as have the kids. If you want to drop over sometime please do, however I'll leave it with you.'
However, I think I need to address the bad behaviour to show that it cannot be an ongoing part of our relationship.
'Hi H, I know we had some cross words the other day and I am sorry for my part in that. I understand that you were angry, however, I would appreciate you calmly talking to me about any issues you may have rather than yelling at me. I am sure you will understand that I cannot accept this behaviour as part of our friendship.
I have really enjoyed the time we have had together recently as have the kids. If you want to drop over sometime please do, however I'll leave it with you.'
I do see what you are saying but... you sound like his mother and if I received that it would get my back up. So, how about something like
'Hi H, I know we had some cross words the other day and I am sorry for that. My hope is that in the future we are able to speak calmly to each other so as to avoid things escalating. I will certainly do my best to play my part in that.
I have really enjoyed the time we have had together recently as have the kids. If you want to drop over sometime please do, however I'll leave it with you.'
I took out your taking reponsibility and hopefully made it a mutual thing rather than assigning blame in any way. I don't know? What do you think?? Feel free to disregard...
My H is too in the habit of throwing a tantrum and then hurling D round. Hasn’t done anything about it yet though. And yes I agree it’s normally when we get too near the truth and make them feel guilty. It’s really their issue not ours. And I also get the silent treatment. Are we sure we’re not married to the same H – lol? Still that’s by the by what to do about it?
Firstly I would be an open and honest about where what I’m doing (but then I did have an EA and need to be honest to regain my H’s trust). If we’re trying to build friendship first we should approach it as if we were approaching a friend – would we keep a friend in the dark? Probably not. There’s no need to thrust what you’re doing on your H however just tell him if he or the kids ask. Although it’s not direct it does sort of keep the communication going.
Think hard about the fight the other day, what could you have done to either prevent it or turn it into a positive conversation. How did it descend into a slanging match? Once you’ve worked out your responsibility you could apologise for that. At this point you could say that you are keen to avoid unpleasant confrontations in the future and hope that you can both work to avoid this re occurring. I wouldn’t say that it’s unacceptable as part of your friendship, at the moment he doesn’t want a friendship with you so won’t care whether you find it acceptable or not.
As for the family time, how do you know that he enjoyed it, did he say so or are you assuming that he did. If you are assuming don’t mention that just say that you and the kids enjoyed it, perhaps say that you hoped he did too.
I think keeping it brief might be best, over long and you run the risk of it turning into a R conversation and thus another row.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your thoughts and as yet I am undecided what I should send. I don't want to be his mother by any means but it has reached a stage where I just cannot accept his outbursts and I need to say something. I have tolerated for so long and it cannot continue. We have spoken about it before and he thinks that when he loses his cool I should just understand that he doesn't mean it. It's hurtful and upsetting and I have finally reached a stage where I have to give him fair warning that I won't accept this behaviour anymore. I guess it comes from the addage that you get what you tolerate. I am able to handle the threats of divorce as an outburst of anger but the yelling and swearing at me is just not on. I guess I have come to the stage of recognising that nobody is more important than me and to be treated in this way just because he doesn't like what I have to say is not ok.
I think I am the one who has done all the reflecting and apologising over every issue to date. Even last night we spoke over something for our son and I used the opportunity to apologise. He accepts my apology and then uses the opportunity to reiterate how badly he saw me but never acknowledges his part. Last night I even said that it was both of us and he denied his part, putting the blame squarely on my shoulders. This provides no way forward to seek new understanding.
He would not treat anyone else in this manner and nobody else in my life speaks to me like that. Enough is enough! I guess I am thinking that I have to bank on the positives we have had over the past months which he too has agreed that he has enjoyed and say I want this but not with the risk of his outbursts. If he doesn't agree I have decided that it's too bad, I can't have any further dealings with him.
I think typing this out really does allow some thought clarification.
I sent H a text about s as we have some things to sort out for him re school. We text back and forward a few times and things seemed quite good. I have a small post op concern which could be my imagination but with tiredness and my vivid imagination I am getting concerned and H suggested I make a doctor's appointment.
I just returned from work and have read through the chats of the day. Here are some of my thoughts.
First I want to tell you my H said all the same things and did all the same things. It was not until about 10 months ago that my H started to feel remorse for his actions and show compassion again for my feelings. That means for the better part of 3 years and 3 months H was a sh*t to me. Not all the time, a lot of the time. More than I deserved for sure.
When you speak to H in an email be very careful. It is said, and I have to agree, an email can come across the wrong way. What in your mind you are typing out seems friendly enough can be taken as absolutely unfriendly, rude or even hurtful to the recipient.
Begin by speaking to H like he is your best friend. If you wouldn't even think to speak it to your best friend definitely don't speak it to H.
My best guess on this one is do not send H an email and confront him of your dislikes at all. I understand your feelings and completely agree with you that you should not have to be spoken to or treated unkindly by H.
H feels completely in the right to do as he pleases right now even if he's rude and unkind and hurtful. It's all about him.
If I were you I would save my comments and actions for the very next time H behaves like this. It seems like the crisis has blown over anyway, even more reason to let this one go.
The next time, perhaps handle H this way:
Use this during his tantrum at some point when he comes up for air.
"H, if you have finished, I first want to say I am sorry you feel this way. Second, I cannot take part in a conversation in which you berate me. I am more than willing to continue this conversation later after you have calmed down. Call me later if this is something you want to do. I have to go for now, goodbye."
Cas, when you speak to H, the others are right...mothering will not work. Just like more scolding will not work. What you are looking for is the happy medium. You want to validate H thoughts and feelings while showing respect for yourself. You also do not want H to think you are closing a door.
You want to come across as direct, keep it simple and short and throw his problems back on him. For him to be so angry with you it is H way of taking his problems out on you. So you give them back to him.
The way your last post sounds, H has possibly forgotten already what happened before or at least for now. That is the MLC mind at work. As long as it is light and friendly, keep it that way.
Definitely reply as to your doctors appointment in ref to the post-op concern. If he cared enough to suggest a new appointment he cares enough to hear the results.
((((Hugs Cas))))
Keep us posted, I hope the concern is nothing but your overimagination....get it checked out just in case, it's worth looking into for sure. You will have piece of mind once you do. If's is a real problem, they can fix it right up before it manifests into something worse.
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
