I'm defintiely a "newbie" here but I'm sure my story is not.
A couple of years ago my 42 yr old wife of 18 yrs (then) dropped the ILYBINILWY bomb on me. She had let me know that she wasn't happy some years back but she's always been very melo-dramatic about everything in her life (always "the most incredible" or "the worst" day of her life, etc.) that I couldn't really tell if she was serious or not. When I asked her what she needed from me (many, many times) to make things better between us, she would always say she "didn't know". Tough to change when you don't know what the true problem is.
Anyway, after getting a couple of $600+ cell phone bills in a row about a year ago, I checked into what the deal was. Found out she had been talking/texting with her BFF from highschool who is actually a great guy and was even in our wedding. He had never really been a "threat" in my mind, as I had a very good female friend in HS and understood the concept. When I asked her why she was communicationg with him so much, she said he was going through a very tough time (problems with his own marriage) and she was trying to help him through it.
We decided to attend counseling to see if we could start finding out what our issues were and try to resolve them. Unfortunately the contact between them grew even more and I discovered she was talking/texting him at least 30-40 times per day. When I confronted her with it in counseling she burst out in tears and admitted she had let her concern for him develop into being "in love" with him but he was not aware of it. She said she was sorry she hurt me, but was not sorry, and never would be, for the love she felt for him. Saw an email of her telling a friend that she had "never felt a greater love, other than for our children, of course".
Ouch.
Over the last couple of years, nearly all of her girlfriends have either separated or divorced. In addition, she has her own marriage counselor (referred by her divorced best friend) that she speaks with regularly but also happens to be divorced herself. (Greeaatt!) Consequently, she doesn't interact with anyone who has a stable, healthy marriage.
She has also become very interested in personal growth and holistic "wellness" (Reiki and Healing Touch) and is an avid reader of Susan Jeffers, and Christel Nani, both of whom are involved in the "wellness" field and both of whom are divorced. She is now certifying as a Healing Touch practioner and is very excited about having a new career. I really am happy for her personal growth and I'm trying to understand all of this but have to admit, it really does seem that she's been "abducted by aliens".
Anyway, marriage counseling (we're now on our third counselor) doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere. She has stated to all of the counselors that if we work out, great. If we don't, great. She is only interested in reaching her "highest, best self" whether or not it involves me.
All of the counselors have taken the "I'm okay, you're okay" approach to therapy. No one has told her that her infidelity (emotional affair) was wrong. No one has suggested that she end her relationship with her "boyfriend" or even curtail it. ??? They just say that it does interfere with rebuilding our relationship, but it is her choice whether to continue it or not. Guess what she chooses?
She has repeatedly stated that she feels no sexual attraction to me any longer and has now witheld sex from me for three months and says we will not have any sexual/romantic contact until she is "doing it for the right reasons", which basically means util she feels "in love" with me again, which of course, might never happen, especially since she is still in contact (calls/texts) with her male BFF at least 20 times per day. The counselors have all said that we should not have sex until she's fully ready to do so. So she feels fully justified in being cold, or at best "platonic", toward me. Of course, my needs do not matter, but I am expected to remain faithful (even though she wasn't) and just live in a celibate marriage for however long it takes.
Bottom line is, I am in love with her but am having those feelings squelched at every opportunity. Not sure how much longer I can put up with the "How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days" approach to rebuilding our marriage. She freely admits she "doesn't know" what she wants but her actions indicate she is done with us and I am now in the way of her path to her new "highest, best self" and her new Healing Touch career.
Trying to wait all this out but losing my patience (two years now and no end in sight...). She keeps theatening to separate and I've told her how much I don't want that (damage to kids, odds against staying married, etc.) so she uses it as a threat at every opportunity to get me to accept her inexcusable behavior.
Anyway, any advice would be appreciated, sorry for the "War and Peace" length of this post.
Me 47 W 44 D16, D13 T 23yrs M 20yrs WAW/MLC + Male EA "BFF from H.S." = Misery
When I asked her what she needed from me (many, many times) to make things better between us, she would always say she "didn't know". Tough to change when you don't know what the true problem is.
That is a real killer that I think so many of us here understand. You feel you're being a stand-up guy by being willing to work on things from the beginning, but the door just keeps getting slammed in your face. Sometimes it does make you wonder if nice guys really do finish last.
I'm in a similar situation myself with the OM. I really want to scream "What am I supposed to do while you figure things out?" but I feel so afraid of making an ultimatum. It's a really cruddy situation to be in --- I really feel for you.
You are truly a strong person for enduring for two years. I can't imagine. Don't forget to take care of yourself, too, though. A lot of the advice here in the forums and the books is centered around focusing on yourself: (a) it's one thing you really can change; (b) it may end up helping her want to come back; (c) critically, also it helps keep you sane and maybe even a little bit happy.
You feel you're being a stand-up guy by being willing to work on things from the beginning, but the door just keeps getting slammed in your face. Sometimes it does make you wonder if nice guys really do finish last.
I'm in a similar situation myself with the OM. I really want to scream "What am I supposed to do while you figure things out?" but I feel so afraid of making an ultimatum. It's a really cruddy situation to be in --- I really feel for you.
You are truly a strong person for enduring for two years. I can't imagine.
You are so right about feeling like nice guys finish last and the "ultimatum or not" decision. It is SUCH a PITA to have to endure all of the BS and turn the other cheek, etc. Especially, when it seems like they are throwing it in your face just to see if they can get away with it. Read your story and feel you are fortunate in that at least she shows some concern over "throwing it all away". My wife is ambivalent and shows no remorse over having strayed from the marriage. However, I feel horrible for you that she decided to separate so quickly, must really have been truly devestating for you. I can only imagine that pain, and I'm NOT looking forward to it.
Thanks for the compliment about me being strong, sure wish I was a strong as I seem. I do need to GAL outside the marriage and can totally identify with your being interested in spending time just being together. That's really all I want as I am in the military and have been away from my family for the better part of six of the last eight years. Spending time together is at the top of my list but for her, seems suffocating and interferes with her "life" she's established while I'm away.
My friends have all said that I really AM a stand-up guy for putting up with all this, but then again, they're friends. What else would they say? I just don't believe in divorce, unless there is true abuse, physical, chemical, emotional or otherwise. Not to mention, that I still love her and even these days see very short glimpses of the woman I married. It's the only thing that gives me hope. This, however, is not an abusive situation.
This is just someone who appears to be going through MLC, and in conjunction, found an old friend who is ALWAYS understanding, supportive, and can be her "soul-mate" without having to deal with her 24/7 and/or hold her accountable when she is acting childish, bitchy, mean or just being unreasonable/intolerant.
I think nice guys probably DO finish last. The more I accommodate her bad behavior, the worse she seems to get. I don't think she truly understands the permanent damage she does with every thoughtless word and cruel action. Or maybe she does and is trying to get me to give up on us so she can leave without feeling guilty about breaking up our marriage.
Anyway, thanks for your support and let me know how things go for you. Fight the good fight, that's all we can do for now.
Me 47 W 44 D16, D13 T 23yrs M 20yrs WAW/MLC + Male EA "BFF from H.S." = Misery
ILYBNILWY.....Geee. I really enjoyed hearing that one myself. Next time: Stick a fork in my ear- it will hurt less. I've been reading various threads and decided to just jump in and say hi and sorry about your situation.
First, to all who have posted, thanks for your support.
Thanks DQ, for the compliment about my title, I've always used humor to try to lighten heavy loads. Maybe just a defense tactic but seems better than jumping on "the sky is falling" bandwagon. I have read DB thoroughly and keep rereading the chapters that are most applicable. Can't say I always am able to follow the advice though, despite my best efforts.
I'll check out your threads, thanks. As an update, (I haven't been on here for a couple of weeks due to computer problems), she has now officially decided to separate, at least that's what she told me in counseling this week. I'm not surprised, although still incredulous as in, "are you REALLY ready to do this to our family?". Very hurtful (know I'm preaching to the choir here) and is going to be devestating to the kids. She hasn't left yet and the kids don't know her decision, although they know we are in counseling.
Question is, how should I treat her before (and IF) she really leaves? I have been trying to be neutral, not overly warm, but not cold/rude either. I feel like cutting off all but the most essential conversation (kids skeds, etc.) so she can see what being separated will be like, but I also don't want to give her additional justification to accelerate the process. I feel the longer she stays in the house, the better it is for our girls.
On the other hand, she seems hesitant to actually leave (understandable) but keeps saying her decision is made. I told her the decision is up to her but she had better be 100%, absolutely SURE she has to do this, otherwise it's not worth the damage she will cause. Not sure she will actually go through with it but then again, wouldn't be surprised if she did just to prove her point.
I have decided to let her go if she wants but am not planning to do anything to help the process. I will simply not stand in the way. I will do what I can to help the kids cope but they are going to be crushed regardless. She, however, will be on her own. This is her decision to leave rather than do the hard work of staying and working on us, so I'm out of it. Tired of trying to convince her to stay and it probably feels to her like I'm just "controlling" her again.
Any suggestions on immediate steps I should/should not take?
Me 47 W 44 D16, D13 T 23yrs M 20yrs WAW/MLC + Male EA "BFF from H.S." = Misery
I was in a similar sitch to you for about two months. My W was texting/calling the OM every day. My response was similar to yours: just wait it out and eventually it would go away. Only it didn't. In the end, she left to be with him and she did leave me and the kids behind.
In hindsight, the biggest mistake I made was not confronting her affair early on and setting the proper boundaries. I was an enabler for the affair and the separation. I thought I was doing the right thing by letting her string me along, but the truth was that I made it much, much worse.
Only you know what your W is like and what sort of things are likely to get through to her, but I will say that being firm, setting boundaries (no more talking to the BF when I'm around, you pay your own phone bills, you buy your own clothes, undergarments, perfume, etc.) and not enabling her would have (I believe) shut down the A and had us on the path to reconciliation much quicker. As it is, she is still waffling after spending a sizable chunk of money that I gave her, our family has been ripped apart for going on 6 months, and there is still a lot of uncertainty about what the future hold for us.
No more Mr. Nice Guy!
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
I was in a similar sitch to you for about two months. My W was texting/calling the OM every day. My response was similar to yours: just wait it out and eventually it would go away. Only it didn't. In the end, she left to be with him and she did leave me and the kids behind.
In hindsight, the biggest mistake I made was not confronting her affair early on and setting the proper boundaries. I was an enabler for the affair and the separation. I thought I was doing the right thing by letting her string me along, but the truth was that I made it much, much worse.
Only you know what your W is like and what sort of things are likely to get through to her, but I will say that being firm, setting boundaries (no more talking to the BF when I'm around, you pay your own phone bills, you buy your own clothes, undergarments, perfume, etc.) and not enabling her would have (I believe) shut down the A and had us on the path to reconciliation much quicker. As it is, she is still waffling after spending a sizable chunk of money that I gave her, our family has been ripped apart for going on 6 months, and there is still a lot of uncertainty about what the future hold for us.
No more Mr. Nice Guy!
Portland - Sorry to hear about your sitch, especially deserted you AND the kids, I just don't get why such incredible selfishness. What's left of my heart (small bloody shreds) goes out to you. I can only hope your W will tire of him soon enough and come back to you and your children.
I totally agree with you that I have been an enabler by not being intolerant of her behavior, but will say that I have told her many times that her relationship (3-4 calls + 20-30 texts per day avg) with OM (her male BFF from high school who has his own marital issues) is inappropriate and we will never be able to work on us while she is emotionally involved with him. She says she's sorry it hurts me but she is not willing to cut off that friendship and is not sorry for the love she feels for him as a "friend". (yuh, right!) Fortunately, we live on the East Coast and he lives on the West Coast (where she grew up) so chances of PA are slim/none although past PA while visiting home is likely in my distrustful mind.
This has been going on for about 18 months that I can tell, probably longer than I can prove. I'm in the military assigned away from home but get home every weekend, so total time together is much less than being there every day. If I was there, perhaps the EA might not have developed as deeply, and I'm pretty sure I would have gotten fed up much sooner, but it's not "in my face" every day so I've let it lay, hoping it would die off naturally as many posts here have said EA's do.
But I was wrong, so now, time for something different.
She says she is leaving but hasn't set a timetable or a plan, but knows she'll need to care for the kids during the week. She will likely stay at home during the week and stay with a GF on weekends. I told her if she does separate, she is on her own and I will not assist in any way, money, moving, etc. I do not want to "enable" her bad decision to leave as I have her EA.
We meet with MC again this weekend. He's suggested we work together to negotiate how to separate but I'm not helping plan this escape, it's her idea, not mine. Besides, my opinion hasn't counted thus far. I will, however, refuse things that are unacceptable with whatever plan she comes up with. We'll see how it goes.
Your boundary setting ideas are good and I will be more firm about implementing them. It's time. (better late than never...) NO MORE MR. NICE GUY is right! Tried it, no effect, time for 180.
Hope your WAS comes to her senses soon, my thoughts are with you.
Me 47 W 44 D16, D13 T 23yrs M 20yrs WAW/MLC + Male EA "BFF from H.S." = Misery
