This thread is meant for discussion and is not intended to be a 'sour grapes' thread.
A month or so ago, I took my kids to a birthday party at a movie theater. My son saw one of his buddies there and the boy asked me if he could come over for a play date? Sure..if your dad says OK. I met his father, a tall good looking guy who agreed that it would be OK, even tho' it was during the week. He seemed like a nice man and father.
He picked up his son later on and we had a bit of a chat. He was a NYC detective and was considering a change to become a nurse. Being a doc, I told him I thought that would be a great move. We had a nice chat. Nice guy.
The next week, I brought my son over for a playdate and met his wife. Again, a nice woman...average in appearance...works in real estate, dark hair, pleasant. The entry wall was filled with family and wedding photos. The envy thing hit me...another happily married couple.
Yesterday, my sis calls me up and tells me that she bumped into this woman at a local event. Out of nowhere she starts unloading stuff on my sis...that she had an affair..that "she's unhappy...always been unhappy....deserves to be happy" etc. The husband wants counselling and to work on the marriage. The wife wants out.
Affairs...seem rampant.
Thoughts?
Is marriage an institution well-suited to the prairies of the expanding west in the 1800's but ill-fitting for working couples of the 21st century?
Should something be changed with regards to who, when or how one gets married or divorced?
Pardon the pun but should there be term limits? Should you sign up for 5 years with an option for 5 more?
Or, is marriage just fine the way it is?
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Although I post over in Hopefulness, I do check out the MLC section and do lurk on your thread.
My MIL (who passed away a few years ago) joked quite often that the government should put contraceptives that work on both sexes into the water supply and only supply the antidote if the couple passed a means test.
I'll think on this topic some more but wanted to relate that ancedote to the group at large...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
As a person who has long held a view of marriage as a spiritual institution, I have to tell you that my experiences of the past year have left me completely disoriented and disillusioned in that regard. I thought I was married to someone who held the same view; I thought we belonged to churches that supported that ideology. However, none of those things turned out to be true, and I wonder if I am simply hopelessly idealistic. I see where you're coming from.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
Just remember that half of first marriages do succeed. Most of those on here simply married a type of person not capable of working through difficult problems or lacking moral qualities.
Marriage is a bit like roulette, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
BTW FIB, are you going to update the new age on your signature line?
Well as my d11 said, "when you date a lot it's okay, b/c you only have to find one right person and then you win..."
But I have wondered. I read that couples who marry in a church are 40% less likely to divorce, and I assume it means they have similar values and think God is a factor in the M. I really did believe that, and I do believe you have to pray a lot about what His will is and what the morally right thing to do is and that it IS what will ultimately lead to your own happiness.
But that does not mean God wants us to be doormats. There is free will, and if our spouses freely choose to act in ways that damage or even destroy our families, then we save the children and ourselves from further harm as best we can....I guess.???
There comes a time in every marriage when each spouse sees the other in total stark reality without the passion of the new, and see them totally naked, with all their flaws, weaknesses, qualities, strengths, quirks, warts and all, and in that time, they make a choice. They may reject their spouse as simply too flawed, no faults of weight allowed, only minor ones. Those leave. Others choose to stay but only to make the other one cave in to their will, to nag, cajole, critisize, and "be proven RIGHT" until one of them finally dies, and some choose to stay but sigh for their whole lives, rolling their eyes in the long suffering manner of the martyrs they see themselves as. And then, there are others.
There are those who see the realities of their spouse along with their own many faults in stark light too. Somehow they see it all and yet, still, they choose to love. They choose to focus on the good, and to compliment it, and strongly favor it. As for the bad, and not so good, they learn to compensate, overlook, accept, or work around....they try hard to do what is the goal; to see their spouses as God sees them. Through His eyes...
Seems terribly difficult, but not complicated. In fact, it is very simple. But evidently quite rare. And no, I don't think this means we "learn" to accept what is truly UNacceptable. God did not put us here to make us miserable. We are not here to be doormats. But still, we have a goal and I think that the goal of marital love probably is to learn to see someone for all of who they really are, including their histories and pain, through His eyes. That does not always mean one stays married to a spouse. But it sure helps. I think I believe this. But I have had doubts.
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
FIB - I haven't ever posted to you before, so hello, nice to meet you!
You said: Should something be changed with regards to who, when or how one gets married or divorced?
Actually I have always wished and hoped that there could be a marriage curriculum in colleges. Basically, nearly everyone gets married, and yet, nearly no one is ever given any data on what makes a good marriage, what causes divorce, how to "know" if this person you are thinking of marrying is really your "one" or not....I mean really, why do we allow our young adults to get married with literally zero knowledge given them, first?
So a whole course work on "marriage knowledge" should be part of all degree programs. This should also include courses on sexuality and sex within marriage, faithfulness and what causes infidelity, etc. Then there is how to handle disputes, in-laws, family crises, etc. And very important information would also include giving these young people an understanding of how physiology works in regard to feeling in love, so that they may understand that this feeling they are having does not necessarily mean they should let it lead them to a church.
If young people could be given a lot of dismal but necessary facts before they ever get near an alter, maybe they would think twice, wait a little longer, and make a more informed decision. Maybe there would be less divorce if we made informed choices. If we made marriage choices like informed consumers, I think marriage would stand a better chance.
That's just my two cents. I don't think the institution is outdated at all...I just think that many of us (especially those of us who ended up divorced) marry very young, to the wrong person, for the wrong reasons.
There are those who see the realities of their spouse along with their own many faults in stark light too. Somehow they see it all and yet, still, they choose to love. They choose to focus on the good, and to compliment it, and strongly favor it. As for the bad, and not so good, they learn to compensate, overlook, accept, or work around....they try hard to do what is the goal; to see their spouses as God sees them. Through His eyes...
And there are many of us who did just that. We entered marriage with a lot of prayer, with counseling, with right attitude after finding someone with whom we share appropriate values and views. We went to church regularly; we, in fact, built our family life around our church community. We continued to hold our marriages in prayer. We prayed together as a couple, then as a family. As changes occurred, we tried to look with eyes of love. We may not have been perfect, but we tried hard. And our spouses decided we were too old, too "immobile," we breathed, sat, chewed, slept too loudly or otherwise incorrectly--and something "better" came along, and we and our marriages and our families were cast off like "coats that no longer fit" (to quote my H). Where is the covenant we made then? When one spouse decides to jump ship, the other can be just as godly, faith-centered, prayer-filled and appropriate as can be--but the marriage is over if they both don't want it.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
I'm sure the women here have perused much of the post's placed on men's threads. They are heavily biased towards things MEN can do with regards to treating women. In my own sitch....my own guru....preaches to us:
listening
not displaying 'wuss' behavior
leadership
running the boudoir
attraction
paying attention to your W's efforts to look good for you
not 'fixing'
Etc.
Perhaps DQ is right. Perhaps people venturing to get married should be required to take a course. Women get instructed. Men get instructed. Statistics given. Reasons explained. Methods discussed. Strategies given. Refresher course required annually.
?????
Or....
Perhaps we should just move on...try again...and learn...and pass what we know onto our kids so that they can hopefully avoid the tragedy that we have all passed/are passing through.
I, too, look circumspectly at this institution now and ask lots of questions. My cousin 'Joe' says that marriage DOES work..it's just not for everybody. I guess it's the latter that WE here chose to marry.
For the most part, I have completed most tasks that I set out to do, whether it become a health professional or learn the bagpipes. I guess I'm not used to playing on a team where the other key player just quits and walks off the field.
"Hey..it's 3rd and 1....where ya goin'?"
Gotta play on.
"HIKE"
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Hey Faith....you said: "Perhaps we should just move on...try again...and learn...and pass what we know onto our kids so that they can hopefully avoid the tragedy that we have all passed/are passing through."
Hmm....well yes, of course we should try to educate our kids on "how not to do what mom and dad did wrong, and only do what mom and dad did right". But I have two grown kids and have personally found by experience that, (ahem), THEY are always right and THEY already know what mom and dad did wrong and THEY will do it right even if we don't teach them. (cough) Which is code for, they will not listen to you no matter HOW wise you have become through your own mistakes.
On the other hand, if some college professer were to teach them the facts and data, THEN they would listen, because that person is not their parent who dragged them through a divorce (speaking for myself).
The point I'm making is that, I still opt for a FORMAL way of teaching young people in a FORMAL classroom setting, versus just "mom's wisdom by the seat of my pants" type of thing. The seat of the pants is great for some bits of knowlege and the kiddos will truly listen with eagerness. But once we cross into the marriage/divorce territory, then I am imposing on THEIR reality which they do not want to be told how things "are" or "were" or "should have been", because they KNOW. Catch me? That's just my opinion.....
