Saffie, 25, you did bring up good points and so did you all.
I doubt counseling is any answer. The only reason she mentioned it is b/c she believes 100% that she is right and I am wrong. The counseling is to *fix* me, not her or our interaction concerning the kids. Her mind is closed. The counseling is to point out what a low-life s-bag I am as a father. It is to confirm her opinion of me, nothing more.
Yes, I could sit there calmly and state my case, but it will do nothing but making her defensive. You see, her entire emotional state of mind is wrapped up with the kids. It is what broke up our marriage. If that is threathened, she is nothing. She will defend that to her last breath.
She will never admit to *super mom*. She cannot. She will never admit it may be hurting the kids. It is okay in her mind to use the kids against me. After all, I have no RIGHT to be their dad and I should go away - just like so many dads did for her other divorced friends.
So it is her problem, not mine.
I did contact two of my Better Men. They both said essentially the same thing. "What do YOU want Jeff?" "Not what you think is "best" for the kids or what is best to keep the peace with ExW." Or what is best to ease any guilt I may have.
"What do YOU want Jeff?"
If I do what is best for me, the kids will be fine. Do I want to give up 1/2 my Sunday? Do I want my son enrolled in baseball?
Those are my decisions. If she doesn't like, too bad. The kids are going to have to live their lives in split households - that is the reality of the matter. Period. End of story. She is more than welcome to take them on her days. On my weekends, I should do whatever I feel is best with them. And they will feel safe and secure and okay.
Agree with her that it is unfortunate the kids won't have continuity - however, there is no need for me to defend my decision nor have to justify my private time with them.
And they both agreed it was wrong for her to sign them up against my wishes and our settlement agreement. But they cautioned me not to let my little boy react.
React as a Man should.
Express my feeling but don't defend them. Be assertive in enforcing my boundaries; don't let her be disrepectful. Protect my time with my kids. Don't let her take me out of the equation. Lead. Stay cool.
I just think you are not looking at this from your children's point of view. I disagree that's what's best for you is best for them.
Sometimes you have to give a little to get something back in return. Talk to your children rather than make this into a battle between you and your W with the children just being pawns in all of this.
Your children may be reluctant to tell you the truth because they fear hurting you....that's what my sister and I felt like. If you and your W were still together, this time thing would not be an issue and your children would be partaking in activities they wanted to do without all this drama. They would be gradually spending less time with their parents and more with their friends....that's the usual way things evolve as they slowly break the apron strings.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Jeff...I DO agree with saffie in that...the word 'sacrifice' comes in here.
-does S want to play baseball? -will counselling help?
There is no doubt in my mind that her having pushed over you and signed up your son without your permission was wrong and a boundary was crossed.
But...again...the kids NEED outside time, sports, etc and frequently WE must sacrifice for THEM. IT IS ALL ABOUT THEM NOW.
Yes...you need time with them and YES..it is not permissible for her to make unilateral decisions regarding the kids.
Does S want to play baseball? If so, is there another league that gives MORE time with you? If not, do you sacrifice so that HE can benefit from team sports?
I DO believe that S should talk with you and NOT W RE: S. That should stop. He should talk directly with you.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
I agree saffie and FIB, it is about the kids and believe me, I have dedicated time and even given up time for them for activities outside the home, many times. But the more I give the more is taken. Remember my time with them is limited as it is.
Outside activities such as sports are good but so is private time with dad doing things together. I can see Ex signing them up for everything for the "good of the children", thus effectively denying me my private time if I say yes or causing the guilt trip (and the ugly word resentment) if I say no. Again, where do I draw the line?
Quote:
If you and your W were still together, this time thing would not be an issue and your children would be partaking in activities they wanted to do without all this drama. They would be gradually spending less time with their parents and more with their friends....
So true. But we are not together. An unfortunate byproduct of divorce is that the children will not be able to participate in everything and that they will lack continuity in parts of their lives. I wish I could prevent that but I cannot.
But Jeff, whether you and your W were together or not, your children would gradually see less and less of you.
Now, if you were in a happy M there would be your W to fill that void and the H and W would start to do more together again on their own as the children got older; they would regain their life together as adults.
What happens when you force the children to come see you over things they want to do? I know in my experience it caused a whole lot of tears before it was sorted.
I know this is a bit of an extreme example, but a friend of mine had his W walk out on him when his son was 18 months old. His W remarried. At the age of 5 his son asked his mom if he could call his step dad 'dad' and his natural father by his christian name; he got upset trying to explain at school that the man he lived with wasn't his dad. His dad was extremely upset as you can imagine but he went with it for his son's sake.
Then when the son got to the age of 11 - 16 he cut down the visitataion to his dad because he wanted to hang out with his mates and again his dad agreed although it hurt him.
From the age of 17 onwards - the age of driving over here, his son started upping the amount of time he spent with his dad, and now they are really good friends and see a lot of each other- the son is now 27. What my friend lost when his son was younger he has regained now.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
That is an extreme example. Sorry soffie but it was a very bad example. This touches a nerve.
That father did everything wrong. Every book and parenting class I have digested says you NEVER let a child call someone dad (or mom) who is not their parent. If fact it is in my divorce agreement per court order. The true dad should NEVER take second place. NEVER.
My son is 11. An 11 year old is not old enough to decide anything, let alone the visitation schedule with his dad. A father LEADS his son, not the other way around. A father sets the example. Just b/c of divorce does not mean his responsibility ends.
They may be best friends now, but seems to me that this dad did not see his son grow up. That time is priceless and he lost out, and no you can never get that back. He let another man and his son's teenage friends raise him.
Sorry this sounds harsh, but the court system in the USA already treats dads as second class. What I get is called 'visitation" like I am a Dutch Uncle or something. I will never agree to give up my position as a father and a dad. I will never compromise on my position as THE man in my son and daughter's lives.
To do otherwise makes me less of man; not a man at all.
I have to agree that the example above was not that great. It hurt and hit a nerve with me too. Not good. Like Jeff, I choose NOT to lose time with my kids.
I had told Jeff that I signed my son up for baseball clinic on Saturdays, 1-230P. It cuts into my time and also my time with D5. But my son needs the work. One of my N.U.T.S. is that my sone MUST be in at least one activity per season to stay healthy and active. Right now..it appears to be baseball. Quality of the time must exceed quantity at times.
So, Jeff, I agree, but, I think you need to first: -tackle the REAL issue at hand and that is not being edged out unilaterally re: decision making. -then...tell us here...what does S11 tell you he wants to do? Does he want to play baseball? Does her prefer soccer? lacrosse? swimming? golf? Let us know
I think EVERYONE would agree here, LBH or LBW,...that they MUST participate 50% in decisions regarding the welfare of their kids.
On the flipside Jeff...the kids need playdates...they need to develop skills and interact with others their age....they need to play. Is 100% dad (including me too Jeff)...too much saturation? Do we compromise their social skills for OUR emotional needs?
There is a balance, good buddy. I'm sure that..pretty soon...I'll be coming to you to ask similar stuff.
Sort it out....what is anger or frustration against my WAW? what are MY needs? what are my CHILDREN'S needs? how do I remove 'the little boy' inside and deal with XXX in a strong fashion with leadership and authority?
As Cunningham says, treat her justly.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
On the flipside Jeff...the kids need playdates...they need to develop skills and interact with others their age....they need to play. Is 100% dad (including me too Jeff)...too much saturation? Do we compromise their social skills for OUR emotional needs?
I see this happening from Mums as well. Food for thought indeed.
