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#1677506 - 12/19/08 09:38 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, everyone! I have a question. Does anyone know much about Retrovaille? I checked out the website, but it seemed a bit vague.

A friend at work mentioned Retrovaille, and I've seen it mentioned around here as well. She said that she had a friend who attended on court orders (judge required she and her H to attend before proceeding with filing). Apparently, neither of them really wanted to keep the marriage, but supposedly afterwards, they decided to begin working on this.

My coworker recommended that when January rolls around and H and I have our "talk" that I offer him an option: If he wants to split the cost and file together, we have to attend Retrovaille first to help us work through the moral implications. Otherwise, he'll have to file by himself.

What do ya'll think? Obviously, that's long way off, but I just wanted to gather some facts and bounce the idea off of ya'll.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677577 - 12/19/08 11:16 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
MsMelancoly Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 1106
Hi Nas, I just wanted to stop by & offer support. Given your past with your H, this must be extremely difficult for you (I can only imagine).

I'm sure with the different techniques you are using your H doesn't know what the hell to expect or think.

This is seriously a no-win situation for me. About the only thing I haven't tried is outright anger, rage, and vindictiveness.

Totally, know what you are talking about here & have then same frustration & the same thoughts at times.

Stay strong & try to keep a positive PMA (easier said than done I know).
_________________________
Me39, XH45
Kids 3 dogs, 2 cats
Divorced 6/4/09
Tricky thing is not how you live, but how you live with yourself. (POTC)

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#1677599 - 12/20/08 12:14 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: MsMelancoly]
blindsided1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 2062
Loc: So. Calif
Nas, I know you have been around my thread. I read your post the other day. It's funny reading through your thread to see the things I went through, early on, reiterated in your situation. My H would send me "formal" texts...I called BS on him, he never did it again. I have been here for over a year. I am still in a f'd up sitch. It has taken me a long, long time to even get to a place where I feel "strong" again. The only advice I can give you is to read other threads, listen to the seasoned vets who are on here, stay as busy as possible and give you H just as much space, if not more, than he is giving you. When you give him space and back off...he reaches out to you, even though it is under the guise of something business like or unimportant. That is him reaching out. Just be aware of this. Do not put a time frame on your sitch...it never pans out that way. Just get busy and take care of you. The distancing from your H is so that YOU can have a breather. It took me months and months to understand this. I thought if I distanced myself from him, he would let me....wrong. He became proactive and it gave me time to heal. I can almost bet that the reason he is moving so fast with everything is because he IS confused and doesn't want to give himself a chance to change his mind. Just breath and take care of you. I'll check on you periodically. If you need me, just holler.
_________________________
M 5yrs
1st baby-girl born 6/18/08
Bomb: 10/13/07 OW - I was 6wks Prego
H Moved in w/OW: 11/2/07
D Final 07/10
OW had his baby 3/17/09-so her
Me, now - happier than I ever was with him

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#1677728 - 12/20/08 06:56 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2218
Originally Posted By: Nasmat
Perhaps that time never comes - not if you're taking the high road. I've been considering the cold, hard reality that even if we do get a D and are truly and completely done with eachother that I will still never have a chance to release my rage on him. I could, but it would gain me nothing. It would only diminish me.

That is perhaps the most frustrating part of all of this. I want to fall into hate soemtimes, but the truth is that if I do allow myself to hate then he still has bloody power over me.


I really wish I would have read this before tonight's events transpired. Long story short I let my emotions get the better of me and told BF off. It felt good. And I don't care if that pushes him away, I've made up my mind that he is no longer the person I loved and I want nothing to do with him.

So I will keep up with you and cheerlead because I think you are a better person than me and you can do this.
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g

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#1677902 - 12/20/08 06:56 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: MsMelancoly]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hi, Ms. Melancholy! Thank you so very much for stopping by and offering your support. It helps tremendously, and I appreciate it more than I can say.

I think you're right that my H has no idea what to expect out of me at this point. We're both pretty unstable in our actions right now. I think my biggest goal is to truly work on being patient and following through with my task: loving detachment.

Thank you so very much again. I am feeling stronger every day, but I know this is a test of stamina as mcuh as anything else. We all fall of the horse and climb back on many times. I think that is the strength of this group and this place.

Thank you,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

Top
#1677928 - 12/20/08 08:20 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: blindsided1]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hi, blindsided1! Thank you so much for stopping by and offering support. I have read through your sitch, and although I don't have much wisdom to offer, I definitely have drawn strength from your PMA. \:\)

Quote:
The only advice I can give you is to read other threads, listen to the seasoned vets who are on here, stay as busy as possible and give you H just as much space, if not more, than he is giving you. When you give him space and back off...he reaches out to you, even though it is under the guise of something business like or unimportant. That is him reaching out. Just be aware of this.


Thank you so much for your advice. I know giving him more space than he is giving me is a challenge, but it's getting a little easier with each day. And thanks for the reminder that he is reaching out even if it's only for "business". As easy as it was to look at the "bright side" early on, it is now becoming increasingly easier to be pessimistic. It helps to be reminded that the middle path is the one to brave, and I suppose that middle path comes with letting the rope go a bit more.

Quote:
The distancing from your H is so that YOU can have a breather. It took me months and months to understand this. I thought if I distanced myself from him, he would let me....wrong. He became proactive and it gave me time to heal.


Thank you so much for that. It's funny how I know that cerebrally but am not actually embracing it as I should. I guess I'm a "head before hands" kinda gal, so I need to focus on actually using this time. It is a gift in disguise even if it seems like a curse.

Quote:
I can almost bet that the reason he is moving so fast with everything is because he IS confused and doesn't want to give himself a chance to change his mind.


I really want to believe that. Even my coach tells me that, and I used to believe it, but the jaded part of myself that is trying to protect me from more disappointment keeps winning out. I don't want to wake up and find I was even more naive than I thought.

Thank you so much again. Take care, and God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677932 - 12/20/08 08:28 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
{{{{{{Pearl}}}}}}

Hunny, I've know I've said this to you several times, but I think it merits saying again. Please do not feel bad about what you did. It took guts for you to stand up for yourself, and you did earn respect in doing so. I am proud of you for it.

Every sitch is different. In my sitch, if I lose my cool then I am doing the wrong thing. But that's my sitch. I've been hot tempered. I have been viscious and cruel. I have been coldhearted. I have said many horrible things. For me to go after my H and attack him and the OW would just be me going down a cheeseless tunnel. Also, don't lose the distinction between standing up for yourself and being hateful. What I've wanted to do have been hateful, petty acts - for example going down to the OW's restaurant and asking her if she liked f***ing my sloppy seconds. I want to do it, but to do it would make me childish and would elevate her importance.

I could do lots and lots of hurtful, vengeful things - reporting my H to the feds for things I know he got drawn into on accident because his coworkers are dirty. I could hack his bank account and take everything he has. I could vandalize his place. I could terrorize his family.

But I'm not going to do those things.

In any case, I am not any stronger than you. You are a very strong person - we just have slightly different journies.

*hugs*

We are with you, Pearl. Stay strong and focus on yourself. you deserve it.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677937 - 12/20/08 08:39 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
SingleDad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 365
Loc: Western New York
Nasmat - sometimes I wonder if there are times to blow your stack. If you just sit back and let your spouse take everything without a thought - they'll walk all over you.

I had a fit when I learned from my D3 that my W's friend sleeps over. Told W what happened to your morals? What do yout think you are teaching our daughter ?

Even though my W is angry at me now... I think she may gain some respect that I want what is best for our daughter.

If I didn't say anything, would that mean I don't care anymore?

My W knows I love her, knows I think she is making a terrible mistake. How could I live with myself if I just sat back and didn't say anything ?
_________________________
Me:40 / W:33 / D:3
T:7.5/M:4
D Day: 1/24/08
Legal Separated: 6/12/08
BF who sleeps over: confirmed 11/10/08
Suspect BF pre-dates D Day

http://tinyurl.com/Original-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Second-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Third-thread


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#1678242 - 12/21/08 01:11 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: SingleDad]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Thanks for stopping in and offering support, SingleDad! I really appreciate it. \:\)

I also wonder about whether letting out the full scope of my anger towards him is ever going to be appropriate.

Perhaps there is. Unfortunately, I do not have the wisdom to know the answer to that question. If there is a time for me, I don't believe it is now.

Perhaps I would benefit from the cathartic experience of raging at him, but in the end, there's nothing I can say that he doesn't already know - he's betrayed me; he's forgotten his morals; he's hurt me; he's been selfish in the extreme and in doing so has damaged my life along with his own.

He knows all of that. He's living with it, and he's likely bottling it up inside because I have a hard time seeing him talking to anyone about it.

I completely understand the desire to have to say something. In your case, you have a child together, so that changes the dynamic as well.

I think, though, that we have to trust that our spouses know that we care, that we do not want to walk this path. Believe me, if you've said it once, it's fair to assume your spouse knows. The problem is, they are choosing to walk a different path regardless of that knowledge.

Will they eventually come around? Honestly, we cannot know. In looking through this board, though, it appears that in every case that a couple has reconcilled, it is always because the wayward spouse comes to realize they want to stay on their own.

We can help along that realization through our actions, but in the end, we cannot reason with them to change. We cannot force them into it. We cannot scare them enough or love them enough to make a difference.

And so I think we're all here to become stronger, more balanced people. We are further along the road than our spouses because we are not running. We are confronting our reality and finding a way to continue that is honorable and compassionate and strong. If in our journeys towards this better version of our own humanity we become more appealing to our spouses, it is an added benefit.

I know how hard it is to believe that, but it is a truth we all must struggle to embrace if we are to succeed.

SingleDad, sometimes I do feel like perhaps my decision to not unleash my anger is weakness, that perhaps I am allowing myself to be a doormat. But when those moments come I have to ask myself, in history, in my own life, in the teachings of every major religion, does anger ever reap lasting rewrads?

I believe the answer there is no.

Gandhi chose a path of non-violence, a path that focused on effecting change for his people by turning inwards, and he changed the fate of India. It is the compassion and unconditional love of Jesus that saved our souls. Buddha did not reach enlightenment through anger but through turning to himself.

The list goes on and on. And in smaller ways, if I look at my own life, it is not my indignation or fury that has won me any true prizes. It is always love, compassion, tolerance, patience, and endurance that bear the most fruit.

I've gone on and on. Perhaps I am just trying to justify my own actions, and one day I will change my mind. I guess we all must cross that bridge when we come to it.

God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1678248 - 12/21/08 01:37 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

It has been an interesting weekend thus far. I had a good time on Friday night - went out with some friends and got a chance to bellydance and introduce them to Middle Eastern cuisine and culture.

I did nothing on Saturday, and I am of two minds about that. In one way, I am happy. I had a lazy day of doing nothing at all, and I enjoyed it. I watched some movies and I basically just lounged around in my house without feeling uncomfortable. I haven't really been able to enjoy time at home alone lately - and I used to really love just being here by myself. I think I'm starting to adjust a bit. I ate with a normal appetite. I did not think of him the entire day - just a few times here and there.

On the flipside, I feel guilty because I did nothing. I didn't clean like I'd told myself I would. I didn't exercise. I didn't work on my writing.

Hell, I didn't even shower or brush my teeth (sorry, I know it's gross).

All in all, it was sort of a typical lazy Saturday in my old life. I didn't really accomplish anythign to move me towards my goals.

In fact, in general I haven't done much to move myself towards my goals. I feel exhausted by everything, and I am disappointed in myself. This laziness is a deeply ingrained pattern in my life, and it is one I know needs to be broken. Somehow, making myself get up and do things isn't going so well even though I know they must be done and only I can do them.

This was a problem in my M as well. I was too tired to vacuum, so my H did it. I was too tired to go to the grocery store, so my H did it. I needed my downtime, so my H stepped in to take care of things.

I know I need to break this cycle. Problem is, knowing and doing are two different skills.

Ah well. Today is another day. Hopefully when I report back later, I'll have crossed some tasks off of the list.

H and I have had some minimal email contact this weekend. He emailed me early Saturday morning with the info to pay the insurance online. I emailed him back briefly to ask for the login information. He responded briefly with instructions.

That's been it. I'm annoyed that I corresponded with him, but at least it was in regards to business that needed to be handled.

Now I've got to go and get ready for church. I'm going to services with my dad and then will have lunch with my parents. I'm not looking forward to their questions and demands, but I am trying to remind myself to be patient with them.

My H works and lives in the same general area where my parents live. I'm terrified that one day I'll run into him with OW. I've also noticed that I am developing a real loathing of young waitresses. No matter where I go out to eat, I see them and wonder if OW looks like any of them. I find myself looking on younger women with real contempt - especially if they are thinner than me. Everytime I pass a big grey truck, I'm looking to see if it is my H. It seems like everywhere I go, there is some place that is a reminder of our life.

I have to wonder if he experiences this same sort of haunting. Does he see my ghost in places, in songs, in TV, the way I see his? Does he think of me at all, and if so, what are those thoughts? Does his family speak of me? What do his friends and sisters say about all of this? How much do they know of the A? Is he falling deeper into the A, or are cracks beginning to form?

Does he have regrets? Does he ever feel lonely without me? Does he worry about me? How often does he think of our dog? Does he ever miss sleeping beside me? Does he dream of me the way he used to? Will he miss me on Christmas? Is he happy when he dreams of a future apart - and does he even dream of that future?

I'll never truly know the answers to those questions, and so I do let them know. But occassionally, they do creep in.

It is a grey day today, but hopefully I can generate enough sunniness on the inside to enjoy it nonetheless.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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