How to know when to let go PT2????

[sandi2]

Ya know the only postive that came from my texting that morning was later that day, he texted me a funny joke.

Kristi, I hope you will not see me as the bad guy here and say, "All Sandi ever does is talk negative". But, I can see it takes so very little to get your hopes soaring sky high. That is common with LBS. I am glad that he was able to finally repsond nicely to your TM, but what if he hadn't? It would have brought you down so low and ruined the day for you. You will not allow yourself to give up on the idea that he truly doesn't want the D. And look at how your children got their hopes up just b/c you were laughing at the TM from their Dad. But, what does tomorrow hold? You never know what he may do. Sometimes, I want to take my new sweeties and turn them across my checkered apron (as my grandmother used to say) and spank their behinds b/c that is pursuing when you TM him and YOU KNOW IT IS! This time, he was wasn't ugly, probably b/c he wasn't involved in anything at the moment....but what about next time, he may slice your heart into. You just won't let go, and you set yourself up for more possible pain. Plus you also set the kids up for more hurt, too.

I tell you what this reminded me of. My GS is not coming home for Christmas and his mother, (my daughter) just cannot accept the fact that he is not coming home. I reminded her several times that she needed to get his gift mailed off in time for him to receive it by Christmas. Now, this past Friday, she spent the whole afternoon with her dad and brother shopping. When her dad came home, he was completely empty handed. That kind of ticked me off b/c I have not been able to go shopping and he knows that we do not have everybody's gift. So, anyway, I call her and find out that she still has not sent her son his Christmas gift and in fact...has not even bought it. She is in complete denial. So, as always, I had to be the bad guy.....seems like I always am and I don't enjoy it, but I can't stand to just sit back and watch this happen. So, when I asked her why she had not taken care of it, she just sort of whined and said that she just kept hoping he would show up. Well, I my patient was beginning to run thin and I told her that he was NOT coming home for Christmas and that I did not expect him to come home at all before the wedding next summer. So, she starts crying and hangs up. See what a good job I do with my own kids? That was not what she wanted to hear, but she has laid around for nearly two weeks making herself sicker by the day simply b/c she will not accept reality. So, she needed to hear it said. She does not want him to marry that girl and she was so convinced that he would be back home to stay, until she just can't cope and is living in denial. So, I had to hit her with a 2x4, and of course she did not like it. But, she is going to ruin everyone's Christmas due to her mopping around and acting like he has died. She isn't the first parent that has had to go through this and won't be the last. I had to go through it and look at all the parents who have kids in the war. So, she needs to stop this pity party and look at those around her that are in her life that she is making miserable b/c of her selfishness in wanting to wallow in her self pity. Yes, it is selfishness. She said that she could not be strong and that she had to have that one time to feel sorry for herself. Okay, so she had it, but now it is time to get herself together and try to move forward b/c this behavior of hers is not doing anything but making matters worse.

Anyway, I didn't mean to get off on all of that except that it bothers me the way you are having such a hard time facing reality (just like my D) and how you just can't seem to discipline yourself from contacting your H. Most of the time, you use any little excuse you can find to contact him. This time he was not so bad, but it will be a matter of time before he will get ugly with you. Please stop making the path for him. I want you to have a good Christmas and I don't mean for this to sound like I am scolding you. I just get frustrated when I see my girls doing the very thing they do not need to be doing....which is pursuing. Why do you insist on ruining any chances of drawing him back to you? You are doing the opposite and pushing him farther away.....even if he did seem to be nice this time......it was probably b/c he was bored or something. Pursuing never works! That is exactly what you are doing and when you do.....then you can look back and ask yourself why didn't you following the DB rules. You can ask AmyM, b/c she did all the cute things with flirting and joking over the phone and about anything you could think of, but it did not draw her H closer to her.

So, I hope that you can be stronger during the Christams celebrations and do not find reasons to contact him. If he contacts you....fine, but please sweetie, try to have some control. As you said, you are getting your first glimpses of how he is "not all that" and it gets easier when you can see that! However, you are never going to see it until you stop this. You have to pull away in order to get a better objective view point of what he really is. I am hoping that it won't take you long before you can get your eyes open to see what/who YOU are and that you are much to valuable to waste your time on somebody that doesn't appreciate what he had. I can tell you that OM that I thought was "all that" sure doesn't appeal to me now (thank God!) and I wonder what I ever saw in him in the first place.

Again, I am not scolding.....this is just my way of talking when I get frustrated and don't want to see my girls hurt. And I know it is a matter of time, whether it happens tonight, tomorrow or next week......the jerk he really is, will surface. So, brace yourself as if you are preparing for a storm that may hit you at anytime, anyplace.

I'll check in on ya later. Glad you had a good time playing the other night. You need to get out and enjoy yourself more. Just don't run home and tell him all about it. It is almost like a little girl wanting to tell her daddy what a good job she has done that day. You don't want to tell him about all your improvements. When the time is right, he will know and see for himself.

Don't want you to be upset by this, but I do hope you will learn from it and just resolve to not replay the same thing later, okay?

Take care,
Sandi

[Silver Fox]

Hi Kristi,

I'm afraid Sandi is right. Tread very carefully - remember, as I also have to keep telling myself - NO EXPECTATIONS.

Sandi - you posted an excellent explanation of this very theory a few weeks ago to lovehimso. How can I find it again? I think it would also help Kristi. It was the first time I had ever read one of your posts and I've been following you ever since. It was all about not being the pursuer, making the man come after you, etc. It really woke me up to some things.

Stay strong Kristi!

[Tawnya]

{{{Kristi}}} Wow..you have hit the motherlode when you get Sandi giving you such wonderful words of advice..NOW..trust me, I know they seemed super HARD to hear and they are HARD to swallow, but she is absolutely right..that's why I stopped myself from going to text my hub after reading about yours and how well it went..LOL..cause it could just as easily have been crappy for me, if he answered at all..

Now..I am totally not at the point that Amy and Sandi talk about and so you know I totally understand how you feel. I remember the first time I texted my hub after this all happened and I had decided to send him a text for something..I think it was doing a love dare and I had to just ask him how he was doing and if he needed anything..I sent the text, thinking well he may or may not respond..he responded SO quick and my heart just SOARED..I was so thankful..and don't get me wrong, I was/am thankful he responded.

BUT, now just a month later, I think I would react differently, if I would text at all..because I know that I am worth at least a response, worth more than a response..LOL..I am worth him texting ME first..(of course I have to tell myself this stuff but I'm getting better about believing it)..and someone wrote in a thread once and I TRY to remind myself of this and I want YOU to think about this..about what YOU are worth/should be worth to your spouse. They said:

"Your husband should be willing to crawl thru broken glass to get back to you"

And it's true!

Tawnya

[Amy M]

Kristi...stopping by with some hugs for you! ((((((Kristi))))))

You know, part of what helps with detachment is reading posts like Sandi's over and over and over. Then, one day, you'll just wake up and realize that Sandi's been right on a whole bunch of stuff! She posted all the same things to me. At the time, I didn't want to hear them. I pretended she just didn't know enough about my sitch or my H. Turns out, she knew a whole heck of a lot about a whole lot of stuff!

Over the weekend, my H, who didn't know where I was only that I was out of town "ignoring my real life" (that's what I told him). Sent a stupid text about how much he should pay his babysitter. I was irritated...I mean, he's a business man. When he hires someone to do a job, he knows that you work out the payment deal with the person you are hiring, not a 3rd party right? Then, I realized it was 9:30 his time on Friday night...the TM was likely his way of trying to figure out what I was doing. So, I just didn't respond. That felt good!!!!!!

You keep working on you and spending time doing what Kristi likes to do, and eventually, you'll realize you went all morning without even thinking about texting him. Now, I go most days without even thinking about contacting him.

You'll get there! And, it's a good place. Then, you can start to really DB!!!!

Love you much!
Amy

[Kristi R]

Goodmorning guys.

Well I guess I am really going to need a good smack. I mean I read Sandi's post and it makes sense. It is hurtful because I really thought it was a step in a positive direction. I figured if we are going to get along then I should go with that and keep the good times coming. One reason is because my H keeps saying that the main reason we can not be together is because he doesn't feel we get along. So I figured if there are more postive moments then I would be "proving" him wrong.

I am on vacation this week and he called this morning and said he would stop by the house to take the kids to school so I could go back to sleep if I wanted to. I thought that was really nice. I said thank you very much. He also went to and got me tea at Dunkin Donuts and brought it back before he left for work. We talked a little, he is still set on the D. So I don't have my hopes up for anything. But it is really hard to not want to try and do things with him to show him that things REALLY are not as bad as he seems to think they are.

We even talked about possibly going out to dinner tonight. Our D has another dr appt and he is going to try and me here to take her. He wanted to let me know he was going to buy my mom a Christmas present and a card. Just something small. I don't know if that means I should buy his mom something now too.

I know he is just trying to be friendly. He wants to get along. He says he can't think of any good reasons to stay married, which I think is sad, because there are so many. But he is still stuck in such a neg state..I critized him working soooo much..(I knew work was import, but I did feel 2nd) so I guess the way I came across made him feel that I didn't support him. He just can not move past that and see why I felt the way I did. But oh well. I can't force the issue anymore.

It is really hard to not contact him. I enjoy talking with him when we are not fighting. And as long as we are not talking about the R he has always been open to talking with me. He normally answers all my calls or will call right back. It seems to be the R talks that cause all the frustration, and that is where I don't have a lot of control because we always get right back into that somehow, someway. I guess that is why it is hard to believe he really wants the D. I hear what he says. But I know my H pretty well. He is one stubborn guy. If he makes a decision, whether right or wrong he will stick to it by principal. I don't know where he learned this, and most of the time he does make good decisions, but when he is wrong, he has to do everything he can to prove himself right. I feel like this about the D. He decided this in a very emotional state and ever since he voiced it he HAS to prove it right. Even though he has mentioned several times he doesn't necessarily believe it is the right thing.

I know I should have more confidence in myself and think well if he cares more about a stupid decision and proving himself right over me then to hell with him. But because there are children involved and I really don't think he is thinking that clearly either I have a hard time not trying with every chance I get to prove him wrong.

I get the GAL and PMA and all that stuff for me. And I will continue that because it is making ME feel a lot better about myself. But I am having a hard time getting how not talking, almost having to avoid completely in my circumstances, because I don't see him much and he doesn't live at home anymore, how that is going to help at all. I tend to see that as me accepting the D and making it all the more easier for him to live with his decision. The less we do things together or have contact the easier it is for him to move on as well and not even think about what could/should be. He will just continue to validate his reasons and go with it and wait this out until the papers are signed.

And maybe I am just afraid that I will wake up and not want him anymore. I know that sounds weird, but maybe I am afraid that I will realize I have wasted too much time on somebody that I shouldn't have and that he was right all along.

[marriedCrazy]

I critized him working soooo much..(I knew work was import, but I did feel 2nd) so I guess the way I came across made him feel that I didn't support him. He just can not move past that and see why I felt the way I did. But oh well. I can't force the issue anymore.

Kristi, while you may, very well, have done such criticizing; in the end, your H's excuse that this is the reason he's leaving is BS. Just an excuse sister. Don't believe that this is the main reason.

There's another reason somewhere..you just haven't found it yet.

Keep working on yourself..while he's in the fog, you can't work on your R anyway. So you need to be a better Kristi, OK?

[Kristi R]

MarriedCrazy,


He uses all those excuses. He uses the cricism to say I didn't support him, then that to say I withdrew emotionally. And yes while all that did happen, he just says it caused too much damamge and he doesn't believe he can get over it. Also he did some things himself that he believes I will never get over. Adding the two together. He just says we are broken. When I try to explain from my POV why I critized etc.. he doesn't get it. He only sees it his way so I have given up trying. I have come to the conclusion that he either does get it and will not admitt it or he just doesn't get it.

He really feels that we would just revert back to old ways. Because he is a "logical" thinker he says and he uses the "past performace predicts future behavior" arguement all the time. This is why I aslo believe he can not seperate his work life from his home life. As soon as I think he understands..then he just says.."well why did we ever let it get that way to begin with, and whose to say it wouldn't happen again". I think he is just very afraid. He doesn't want to get hurt..but then again who does. He thinks that the hurt he is feeling now will just go away when the D happens. He has said that... He wanted a great marriage but I think because it didn't turn out like he wanted he feels like a failure and so he needs to walk away and not risk failing again. It is always easier for him to walk away than to deal with emotions. That is why I have fought so hard.

I just don't know if he will ever get out of the fog. I think he would rather D and stay hurt than ever admit he made the wrong decision to walk away and leave. There is too much guilt there and he can not deal with it so he has to justify it so that he feels better about it.

I will be a better me. Thanks.
Especially with the help of everyone here I am on my way.

Hugs.

Kristi

[likingMEagain]

Kristi,

Hugs to you.

You are I are so much alike, and our sitches so similar, it is scary! It's so close that someone might actually get us mixed up!

Just a few things to say right now, cuz I'm kind of in a hurry, but I'll be back later, too.

I really don't think he is thinking that clearly either I have a hard time not trying with every chance I get to prove him wrong.

Don't waste your time trying to "prove" anything to your H, or "reason" with him, or trying to "convince" him of anything. Not only does it not move your forward, it moves you backward. I know this from experience, you're just going to have to trust me. It just irratates the WAS to no end, so don't do it!

But I am having a hard time getting how not talking, almost having to avoid completely in my circumstances, because I don't see him much and he doesn't live at home anymore, how that is going to help at all.

Try doing this, just as an experiment--challenge yourself to not call, text, or otherwise contact, for a week. I KNOW how hard this is, but if you can do this, and take it day by day, even minute by minute, you just might find that he starts calling you! Talk about a 180! What do you have to lose? Getting a "break" from you also means that you take away his "reasons" for constantly thinking that things won't change, because he doesn't have you constantly in his face doing the same things you always have! Plus, I think it would be good for you too. It would give you a much needed confidence boost, and a rest from the rollercoaster of emotions I know you are going through.

I hope that doesn't sound harsh, and I can only say this to you because I have been guilty of the same things, so don't think I mean this in a hurtful way (and I really hope you know that Sandi doesn't either). You can always go back to what you're doing now if it gets too uncomfortable and you think it's the best thing to do. Don't think of it as "forever". Maybe that will help you do it...

Well, Kristi, I hope you enjoy your first day of vacation!

[sandi2]

Kristi sweetie, let's have a little talk here, okay? And please know that I am not scolding you, but it is b/c I can see your stitch from an outside viewpoint without the pain and emotion that you are going through.

But I am having a hard time getting how not talking, almost having to avoid completely in my circumstances, because I don't see him much and he doesn't live at home anymore, how that is going to help at all. I tend to see that as me accepting the D and making it all the more easier for him to live with his decision.

Maybe I misunderstood a post that you had sent before when you said you were ready to drop the rope. Anyway, what you are feeling is perfectly normal b/c you love this man and you are missing his "nearness" and you don't want to let go. It is normal to want to hold him very tight and not let go b/c the thought scares you to death. Do you remember the story about the little girl that wanted a partifular doll for Christmas. She was very poor, as I recall, and to shorten the story, she did get the doll. She loved it so much that she would never lay it aside or put it down. She never let it out of her sight for a second. One night as she was sleeping, she was cudding with the doll as she always did. The next morning when she work up, she discovered to her horror that the doll had melted beneath her body. The little girl had clung the the plastic doll until it could not hold up beneath her weight and body heat. So, that is a story of how if we hold the thing or people that we love too tightly, we will destroy them. That is a lot of what DB is all about. I am not trying to tell you that you will never be able to talk to your H again or have some type of relationship with him in the future.....what I am trying to tell you is what you need to be doing NOW. What you do today will determine what the future will be tomorrow. Yes, it is hard. It will be harder for several days to come.....but if you are persistent....then you will discover that it will get easier. That has been proven over and over again by people right her on this board that never thought they could get past a week without making contact with their S. This time of year is especially hard where M problems are concerned. We tend to place a lot of romance connected with Christmastime and of course everyone thinks about family get-toghethers, but it really has nothing to do with any of that. It is about the birth of Christ. We are the ones that have listen to Hollywood and watched their movies of Christmas "magic" and all the warm and fuzzy movies that make us feel good. I have even found myself hoping for a "Christmas miracle". Don't fall for that stuff. It doesn't work like that. But, the movies sure make it look good.

As far as not taling or ignoring your H......you just need to let him make the first move toward you. What I was trying to tell you is for YOU not to to pick that phone up first. Let him send an email to you, don't you email him first. Don't you send a TM first. That is what detachment is all about. If he is friendly and talks nice, then you can respond friendly.....IF you can do that without getting into a R talk. The problem is, most of the time, it will end up in a R talk and that is not good b/c it ends badly and more hurt and pain is caused. The other night was an exception and that does happen occassionaly, but very rarely. The difference in "dropping the rope" is when you just plain move on with your life and act as if it doesn't matter to you what he does with his. I am not sure you are at that point b/c you have to learn to detach first. Detaching and droping the rope are similar, but droping the rope is more severe in actions.

The less we do things together or have contact the easier it is for him to move on as well and not even think about what could/should be.

You see, that is your "fear" talking to you. If he is doing that, then it means he is detaching from you. But don't you see, the same thing will happen for you when you detach from him. You will be able to move on as well. The problem is that you don't want to and that is understandable.....but listen to me here, please.......YOU DO NOT HAVE TO "WANT" TO DETACH.....BUT YOU MUST DETACH IF THERE IS EVER A CHANCE TO DRAW HIM BACK TO YOU. That is the difference. He wants to detach....but,you don't want to b/c you are afraid of losing him. You have not trusted the DR pinciples and you just have been afraid to follow them in spite of all that people here have told you. The biggest reason for that is b/c you are allowing your heart to dictate to you what to do instead of what the book and what others tell you works. If you listen to your heart, you will lose b/c your heart is broken and it can't think. You don't think with your heart, you think with your brain and that is what one must use in times like this. That is not meant to be offensive, sweetheart, I am just trying to get my point across in my own poor way.

He will just continue to validate his reasons and go with it and wait this out until the papers are signed.

He has to do that in order to convince himself that he is doing the right thing. But, D is not always the end. It has been proven many times that couples often reunite after a D. But, the word divorce scares you. Don't let it.

And maybe I am just afraid that I will wake up and not want him anymore. I know that sounds weird, but maybe I am afraid that I will realize I have wasted too much time on somebody that I shouldn't have and that he was right all along.

Oh Kristi, don't feel that way, please. I know what you are saying.....I really do, b/c I felt a lot of that when I went through my crazy time of an EA. But, like the poem says, it is better to love and have lost, than never to have loved at all. Never feel that loving a person was a waste of your time. Ture, it may end up like you do not want it to, and you may wake up and not want him anymore....but don't let that scare you. Why would waking up and realizing that you did not want him scare you? Instead, see it as being set free and being able to finally move forward. I think that fear has you imprisoned and I am sitting here with tear running down my face b/c it hurts to see so many young women who have many, many years ahead of them to bind themselves in this state of being paralyzed.

I figured if we are going to get along then I should go with that and keep the good times coming.

Yes, I can see that and I would tend to be the same way b/c I am a "fixer". I think you are still wanting to "fix" whatever is wrong in the M. You see, you actually took a chance when you TM him, and it just happened to be the right timing so he didn't come back at you in an ugly response. If he had.....then you would be saying, "Sandi was right and I should never contact him again." But, since he happen to be in a good mood that one time....you cannot let go of that b/c it has your hopes geared up as high as they can get at the moment. But honey it is just a matter of time until he is going to pull the rug out from under you. But the magic word here is "time"....that is what he must have and even if he goes through with the D, who knows how much time he will need? The thing is this.....he may never change his mind regardless of how much time he has......now please listen to me on this point again.....THAT IS WHERE YOU WOULD WASTE YOUR LIFE by waiting on him to come back around. B/c you would need to move forward as if he was never going to be a part of your life again. Oh there will always be that connection b/c of the kids. There will be graduations, weddings, grandchildren being born....there will always be events that will bring you together. However, I have seen with my own eyes how D families can handle this and be civil to each other. I know right now you want more than being civil, but actually that is what he is doing. Can't you see that ((Kristi))? I apologize if that is painful to hear b/c I am not trying to see how much I can hurt you. But this statement you made here is what I hope you will stop:

So I figured if there are more postive moments then I would be "proving" him wrong.

That is the wrong mindset to have. It won't work, Kristi, it will push him farther away b/c you won't "prove" him wrong in his view point.

So I don't have my hopes up for anything.

I know that is what you are telling us, and maybe telling yourself, but your other words have just proven you wrong. It's okay b/c I understand that you are dealing with a broken heart. You are trying very hard. I know that.

We even talked about possibly going out to dinner tonight.

Well that might happen, but I think he was just trying to be nice....maybe b/c it is Christmastime and maybe b/c he feels guilty or even a little lonely. Just please don't get those hopes up or make more out of it than it is.

Just something small. I don't know if that means I should buy his mom something now too.

If you are close to your MIL, then you do what you want to about that. I would keep it small and sweet.....nothing elaborate. Especially, if you know that your MIL is not in favor or what he is wanting to do...then I would probably give her a small gift to show her I still cared about her. This is painful for her too, if she loves you and doesn't want to see a D.

I critized him working soooo much..(I knew work was import, but I did feel 2nd) so I guess the way I came across made him feel that I didn't support him. He just can not move past that and see why I felt the way I did. But oh well. I can't force the issue anymore.

Yeah, the "wife" came out in your didn't it? It is a hard habit to break. But, men and women see things differently and he does think you are being critical and it is not going to change him. Take it from a gal that has been married for 43 years, it does not change them to criticize them! They want admiration and support!

I didn't copy the quote you made about finding it so hard to not contact him and how nice it is when it doesn't lead to a R talk, but that it almost always does. Again, in a lot of ways, I think your heart is just in denial that this is really happening.

He decided this in a very emotional state and ever since he voiced it he HAS to prove it right. Even though he has mentioned several times he doesn't necessarily believe it is the right thing.

That is another argument of why he may have to actually go through with the D before he will change. If he has to prove he is right to save face (if nothing else) then you are right, there is nothing you can do to stop him.

We will continue to be here for you b/c we know this is a very painful time. As you read other threads, you will see how many others are going through the same thing as you are. It is heartbreaking. As I have said before, the more I am here the more I have decided that DB is about survival as much....if not more that busting a divorce. If you can't bust a divorce, you can certainly go to work on yourself a resolve to make the most out of each day of your life. Kristi, that is going to be my New Year's Resolution. I invite you to join me in doing the same thing. I know that my stitch is different from yours. I realize I am in a different stage of my life than you are, but all of us can do this resolution. To do make the very best of each day with what we have to work with. That might not be the best grammer in the world, but it gets the point across. Will you join me in making that New year's Resolution?

I am serious when I say that you and all "my girls" mean so much to me and every one of the posts that I read touches my heart in ways that you have no idea. I never saw myself as being a "mushy" person, but there are times that I want so badly to be able to reach through this computer and hold my girls and let them cry on my shoulder and tell them that they will get stronger and they will be fine with or without a H in their life. You will, sweetie, you will be fine. You have what it takes and we are going to help you in taking those first several baby steps. They are hard and you will fall down occassionaly, but that is why we are here to tell you to get back up and go get to walking again. Okay?

Love ya,
Sandi

[likingMEagain]

Tawnya was right, Kristi! You hit the "motherlode" with Sandi!