"I will say that I never did not love my husband but point blank I treated him badly. Why? Because somewhere along the line he let me get away with it because he didn't want to fight me. I was good at manipulation. But, I have learned my lesson and it was the hard way. "
This is what made me think you cheated--sorry. How do you respond in a non-engaging manner without feeling like you're enabling the other person? I've been trying not to engage her, and just say things like "we're both obviously not communicating well about this, so let's just give each other the benifit of the doubt and not blame one another," but she doesn't accept that. It's like she doesn't want to not fight with me. Were you responding the way you were in order to win your H back, or was it for your own sanity? She starts these arguments with me on a daily basis (this morning it was about how loud I listen to my iPod) and she just keeps at it and at it until she knows she's really hurt me. I often wake up thinking, "today will be a new day" and I will have a good day and do well at work again and carry on, but then she comes along and punches me in the stomach. How do you control your reactions? I guess it's like Puppy said, I just need to do what's right before God and not worry about what she thinks about it.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I would never recommend trying to enlist the help of the OM/potential OM in these situations. You're asking someone who -- if they ARE involved with our spouse in any sort of inappropriate way -- is a LIAR, and you're trying to glean something useful from them?
Confronting OM/OW directly is almost always a mistake. It:
- only elevates their importance
- adds to the "drama" that illicit couples love to thrive on
- is often perceived as weakness by them
- fodder gained from it is not to be believed, at best, and can actually MISLEAD you at worst
- conversely, YOU may reveal things that they will use against you
I guess I'm afraid to do that because I don't have solid evidence that anything has happened. At the least, I know that she had inappropriate feelings for him, but I don't know how much (if at all) he reciprocated those feelings. If I'm wrong, and nothing really happened, my talking to him could be the last nail in the coffin.
You need to do some studing on NON-REACTIVE behavior and techniques. She's button-pushing; you need to learn to not respond, or at least not escalate. The "value-neutral" phrases others are giving you here are a great way to start -- say things like "I'm sorry you feel that way," or "I can see where that might bother you," or "That certainly wasn't my intention."
Puppy, You seem to have a lot of wisdom in these matters. Thanks for sharing. I really do try not to jump into the pit with her, because each time it happens she ends up saying, "see, I admit that I have really hurt you, so why not just divorce me?" She's trying to get me to do the dirty work for her, this way her image in the church is not tarnished. I will try those techniques. CR
Your mistake is thinking that you are enabling her to do something by your words or actions. She is doing what she wants and is trying to steer her belief (by getting negative reactions from you) that this marriage can't work. Your not going to convince her with words.
Your not going to "win" her back.... everyone whose spouses really came back on this board was because the spouses wanted to. Not because they "made"" the spouse see the error of their ways and guilted them back.
The only thing you can try to do is to not push her further away by engaging in her emotions. I told you in my former post how I responded. Reread
You say " "we're both obviously not communicating well about this, so let's just give each other the benifit of the doubt and not blame one another,"
To much talk here reread what to say. Zip your lips.
Initially, I did all this to ""win" my husband back. Isn't that what we are all here for? Eventually as I got on my with my life and started excepting my fate, I started doing it because it hurt less. I mean every time we would discuss the R, it gave him another opportunity to convince himself why it wouldn't work. I put it in my mind the more he heard himself say it the more he would believe it so I didn't want to talk about it with him anymore.
Here is a nugget that someone gave me, and I can't remeber if I read it or not but I wrote it down and it became my mantra. Because, I am a woman who will talk anything to death and felt of course my situation was different and I can explain to my husband why he should feel differently than he does.
WRITE THIS DOWN, Tattoo it on your rear, whatever it takes to understand.
Before you speak, and I suggest you never answer quickly when talking to her, ask yourself:
IS WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY GOING TO GET ME CLOSER TO MY GOAL?
After, really reading what people where telling me here and reading the DB book the answer was 99% NO. So Zip your lip, even if you are right. My H was truly gone or so I thought you could have knocked me over with a feather when he called me in the middle of the night out of the blue. No one could have convinced me he was contemplating coming back. His world seemed to me like Disney World. See kids when you want, recreate when you want, sleep when you want. That's what he wanted me to see, in reality it was the Tower of Terror! But, I wasn't along for the ride.... I got off.... I let him be and was nice and detached. It was hard and I guess I finally got in the mode because it hurt being to close to the situation. It was better to not know at that point. The devil is in the details, ya know.
I totally agree with Puppy regarding the OM. He doesn't give a poop about your family. Your issue isn't with him, it's with her. It won't change anything for the positive.
Here's one more nugget that I started using on him.
"I need to think about what you are saying, can I get back to you on that?" I would say that as a stall tactic and he was always suprised by it but it worked when I wasn't sure what to say.
For instance: His parents reside on a sailboat out of country and they were coming up to see us...(this is during our seperation with no hope of reconcillation") well he called to ask if his parents could stay at the house. Normally, I would have said Yes, because my relationship with them is good, I would get to see him alot, and my kids would get a good visit with them, as we had not seen them in 3 years. But I said "hhmm let me think about that and I'll get back to you"" Now mind you , he had a two bedroom apartment and there was room for them there. So, I thought about and decided no they can't stay here, because it confused me to be around him in a "family" way and I told his mother that and you know what I told him that too later and they both understood. I did what was best for me, which was ultimately best for my kids. I would have been on pins and needles the whole time and wouldn't enjoy the visit. I did offer for them stay here for a couple of the days they were in town but was clear activities could not include H and I together because it was just to hard on me.
I stood up for myself with boundaries. They were hard to enforce as I was scared to death it was going to push him away..Guess what? He was already gone...so I needed to protect my feelings and emotions. I believe he respected me for these actions. Although, at times he didn't like them...and I don't blame him....he was paying for a house he had no access to etc.. etc. I wouldn't have been happy either but I am a now and forever believer that YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Your either in or your out.
Last edited by sandycay; 12/08/0808:46 PM.
M:47 M:18 D16, S19 1st S 1/08-5/08 Reconciled/May 7, 2008 Left again Nov 9, 2009 I Filed: Nov 17, 2009 Final: April 14, 2010 EX walked away from kids too
Pup, your probably right....I am one of those step on my shoes, I punch you in the face guys when it comes to my family, otherwise a real friendly guy!!!
So maybe not confront....but just go say hello my name is WW's husband. I heard alot about you. Just to see what his reaction would be. Put your face on things. But again that is probably to proactive. So I will leave it alone.
Your response to her regarding your Ipod rant should have been to
W: Hey Crafidi, your Ipod is to loud blah blah blah C: Nod your head, smile and say sure" W: It's giving me a headache turn it down C: I can see where that might give you a headache (then either turn it down or go somewhere else in the house if you want to listen to it
Don't engage, validate what she is feeling, right or wrong and move along.
M:47 M:18 D16, S19 1st S 1/08-5/08 Reconciled/May 7, 2008 Left again Nov 9, 2009 I Filed: Nov 17, 2009 Final: April 14, 2010 EX walked away from kids too
Gosh that all makes a tremendous amount of sense. By what you are saying, it would make sense to conclude that, at least this early in the game, marriage counseling will only make things worse. Maybe I should go to counseling with the approach that I just want to better understand how she feels, rather than try to fix the marriage. That being said, I can just sit there and let her vent and nod my head and say some of the things you said. We are in counseling (in fact, our appt. is tomorrow), but I am really second guessing how much that will help. I am really going to try and detach and just say the things you and Puppy are suggesting. It will be hard, no doubt, because she really knows how to push my buttons, but I will give it my best. Thanks again.
