"An affair doesn't have to ruin a marriage". TRUE is my answer & I think my husband may feel the same if he can forgive himself as this is the 2nd one that he's had the pattern - he caved in to a girl on the job when he was feeling insecure about our family's future
What are your thoughts about when Michele says..
Quote: "Most people can survive infidelity and can, in fact, make their marriage stronger once they work through the issues infidelity has brought into their lives."<hr /></blockquote> I know this as a fact, I found out as an adult that my father cheated my mom found out & left & he ended the affairs she forgave him & we kids never even knew
my dad was in a band at the time - mom & him agreed she'd go with him to performances so that way all the floosies knew he was VERY MARRIED he always said after that why settle for cheap hamburger when you've got prime rib at home? as an adult my grandmother told me about "our vacation without Dad" My parents were "til Death do us Part" when my mom died so I know that an affair doesn't have to mean the end of a marriage
Do you know any couples who have overcome their feelings of violation and betrayal, and gone on to have a better marriage? My own Parents
Has your opinion about the chances of a marriage surviving through infidelity changed from what you may have thought before it happened to you? Possibly went from "no way", to "maybe"? I guess because I'd learned from my grandmother that my own parents had survived Infidelity & after having survived once already (the reason my grandmother told me about my parents i guess) I do know that it's not easy but it can be overcome
Most people are much happier in their second marriages because they've learned from their mistakes." False
How many people do you know that believe this to be true? (Not counting anybody in the entertainment industry?! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) Well I don't know many divorced people to start with but hubby's male friends seem to be either younger & never married or his age & older & the ones his age & older seem to be drunkards who have had either 1 bad marriage / divorce or more - 1 guy I do know is in his 50's & is a 3 time loser!
How many of you know people that are in your second, third, or even fourth marriage, who keep making the same "mistakes"? That maybe all they have learned is to get a better pre-nuptual agreement up front?! See above - weird 3 time loser of course doesn't say anything is his fault - they were all "B!*%$s out to get him for his money
What are your thoughts about when Michele says "Unless you understand that "marriage" doesn't make people happy, you will spend the rest of your life trading in marital partners for new ones."? True - you need to be a happy person it's not everyone else's job to make you happy
When she talks about being satisfied with your own life, and being on a path that is satisfying to you as an individual? I really like how she said in the book that if you are not happy in your job maybe you should change jobs rather than planning to change partners
What are your thoughts as this relates to both you, and your partner?
My parents were 'til death do us part' as well as those were around me growing up on the family farm - 2 uncles & my father's parents - so daily i saw examples of couples who lived & loved working it out thru what ever life threw at them - including my great grandmother & great aunt being cared for in home until they died by family members - my uncle lost both his mother & wife the same day one died in hospital & the other died at the home of my other uncle - the examples which I grew up with were couples who althou some appeared to be mismatched had very fulfilling lives & loved each other regardless of what came up, they worked thru their problems because althou divorce was an option to the rest of the world it didn't seem to be part of their vocabulary - the 2 divorces which i knew about in my family were brought forth by the spouses which were married into the family & occurred in the younger generations who didn't live near the farm any longer & seemed to have lost the family connection...
as for hubby's life experience - there doesn't seem to be much connection to family - he's not close to his family, his own mother was a divorced single parent who left him as a young child down south while she came north for a few years before sending for him, she was single for a few years up north raising him & his brother & then remarried a man who had 3 sons the 2 families never did seem to blend & even as adults there is still a us against them attitude with the step brothers - my view as an outsider looking in - even my children joke that they were the ones who taught my FIL in our early years of marriage to be able to hug children anywhere & anytime
- the 1st time that they gave my FIL a hug downtown hartford at 1st nite celebration when it was time to go his expression was definately one of shock & confusion as we were in a public place saying goodbye & he didn't expect the kids to just spontainiously jump into his lap & hug him in the middle of SubWay fastfood restaurant
I think that people are very mistaken on the "& they lived happily ever after" fairytale & look for marriage to be what makes them happy rather than looking at life as being an interesting passage & enjoying what life brings & the joy comes in the sharing life with your family both the good & the bad - for if you don't have any rain then the flowers will never bloom & if you don't have bad times then you will never grow & you will never be able to fully appreciate the good times as really being the good times does that make sense to anyone besides myself?
Stage 3 - Everything Would Be Great If YOU Changed.
Stage 4 - That's Just The Way My Partner Is.
Stage 5 - Together, At Last!
Where do you see your relationship as being at now on the marriage map? Well Pre-Bomb in early 2002 I was in Stages 3 & 4 now after DBing for over a year I'm at stage 4 trying to be patient with hubby in MLC & simply riding the roller coaster with it's daily changes
Stage 2 What have I done! is where hubby is at while he's in Stage 3 Replay of MLC althou at this point he's recouping here at home I've tried to simply "Act As If" all is well & have been doing my best to make him comfortable with out any pressure to feel that he's got to be home for good - which he's not ready for right now
For both you and your partner? Well Pre-Bomb in early 2002 I was in Stages 3 & 4 while i was trying to get my real estate license upgraded dealing with the teen rebellion at home dealing with getting my husbands doctors all on the same page dealing with the docs for my grandmother who wants to stay home as long as possible (she's had 2 episodes of congested heart failure) all i wanted was to move into our own home & i was very frustrated that hubby wasn't getting a move on the process & that hubby wasn't doing all that the docs were saying to get himself into better health
unbeknownst to me hubby was entering MLC & went from stage 1 Passion Prevails as late as August 2002 according to a few people who told me that that wished they made marriages like ours -(these were people from his job who said he spoke of us frequently) into stage 2 What have I done! & at this point also stage 2 & 3 of MLC Anger & Replay in September 2002 when the drinking increased & then he left to go home to mommy in Oct 2002 after he'd gotten the diagnosis of diabetes on top of the chronic Sarcoid which was in full blast since the summer
What stages have you been to already? I left Stage 1 & 2 early in the marriage - actually I hit stage 2 & called the townhall to find out about annulments within the 1st 6 mths then I settled down & got educated by some married couples marriage is something that is worked at & sometimes it's hard! being a realist & having to clean up hubby's messes with the finances I got into Stage 3 & 4 & stayed there for years thru DB I've learned alot & seem to be mostly in Stage 4 at this point I'm not sure if hubby's really noticed that or if he's still worried that I'm in Stage 3
What stages have you spent the most time in, I think that I've spent most of the marriage in stages 3 & 4 From what I've gotten from hubby's talks hubby apparently spent most of our marriage in Stages 1 & 2 & my being in Stage 3 has hurt his feelings
and which ones have you seemed to breeze right through, or maybe even bypassed? I think for myself I spent the least amount of time in Stage 1 went thru Stage 2 quickly for a total of 2 yrs for the 2 stages since then I've been in either Stages 3 or 4 depending on life circumstances I'm totally amazed that hubby was able to tell me in his honest opinion that he was in stage 1 for so many years it's because he left Stage 1 that he hangs out now in MLC Replay stage & Marriage map Stage 2 What Have I done? or something like that visa versa?
How do you feel about the thought of bouncing back and forth between stages? I have seen it in my own marriage I have on occassion bounced back into stages 1 & 2 but mostly hung out in stages 3 & 4 during this crisis I've seen myself bounce from stage 4 & 2 where I've wanted to just run away myself but this site has helped me to realise that running is pointless
About the stages sometimes being "three steps forward, and two steps back"? It's an old saying that my grandmother has told me for years this crisis has shown it to be so true
Does this help to give you hope for where you're at on the map right now?! this site & that advice gives me the strength to see this to the end while my sitch may not be what i want i see couples here in worse sitchs it gives me hope as hubby & i are still connecting the OWhore may have hooks in hubby, but he's never moved in with her the fact that he's still trying to deny her is good the fact that he comes to me for care is good the fact that we still make love is good there are couples living together who aren't making love so in my heart i know that we as a couple no matter what comes out of hubby's MLC Foggy Mouth right now there is still a hope that we'll get to the point where we'll be able to relax a bit in Stage 5 One of theses days
To quote Michele....
Quote: Quoting :The quality and quantity of love you feel for each other are never stagnant. Love is dynamic. So is marriage. The wiser and more mature you become, the more you realize this. The more you realize this, the more time you and your spouse spend hanging out in Stage 5. Together, at last.
Your thoughts on this? I'm treading water in stage 4 waiting for the day when we can celebrate in stage 5 & look back at this MLC as something to laugh about whenever we look at the M&M RollerCoaster dispenser
For me, the possibilities are overwhelming!!!!
Any thoughts, suggestions or advice would be welcome
does that make sense to anyone besides myself? 
