Quote: "Most people can survive infidelity and can, in fact, make their marriage stronger once they work through the issues infidelity has brought into their lives."
Do you know any couples who have overcome their feelings of violation and betrayal, and gone on to have a better marriage?
Has your opinion about the chances of a marriage surviving through infidelity changed from what you may have thought before it happened to you? Possibly went from "no way", to "maybe"?
JJ
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Has your opinion about the chances of a marriage surviving through infidelity changed from what you may have thought before it happened to you? Possibly went from "no way", to "maybe"?
I thought there was some chance but my W believes she is still looking to "is there someone better than." She says that's one reason it happened. I believed there was some chance of reconciling but presently I am detaching from any possibility because she is not receptive at this time. Which leaves me feeling very low from time to time. But the more I pull away from pursuing her, the less concern I have for what she will or will not do. It is her issue, not mine.
Keep in mind that your wife might not really be looking for "someone that is better than you", she may really be in search of a relationship that is better than the one that the two of you have now.
If you were to look at it this way, what kinds of possibilities can you see of making this happen from your end?
If you were to "start with a beginner's mind", where could you begin to look for solutions to showing her that the relationship she's looking for could be a new one with you?
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quote: An affair doesn't have to ruin a marriage".
no an affair doesn't have to ruin a marriage. But it certainly does take something away from it.
Quote: "Most people can survive infidelity and can, in fact, make their marriage stronger once they work through the issues infidelity has brought into their lives."
sure they can and often do creat better stronger marriages once the "issues" have been worked through, BUT (yeah yeah I know that infamous but) the a being the catalyst for the change is often felt as a scar, can lead to resentment etc. of course those feelings can minimize with time but I'd be willing to bet that even when things are wonderful they do have a tendancy to surface.
Quote: Do you know any couples who have overcome their feelings of violation and betrayal, and gone on to have a better marriage?
currently I feel I now have a better marriage than I did before all this crapola. I feel I am dealing with the betrayal feelings etc. however fear still exists for me, I've let go of the resentment since there really is no point in looking at the negative thing that caused a positive change instead of simply enjoying the positive changes.
Quote: Has your opinion about the chances of a marriage surviving through infidelity changed from what you may have thought before it happened to you? Possibly went from "no way", to "maybe"?
unfortunatley not really, the raw realities of marriage and life were not hidden from me so I was and am still aware of what people tolerate in a m. After all at my pre-cana before getting married one of the work book questions was about infideltity...would it mean the end of your m. I answered not neccesarily. funny thing is that h answered yes and he was the one to have the ea and then leave as a result. For him the betrayer, what he had done was more detrimental, he thought it meant the end.
I can tell you now though that it is not something that I would tollerate again for any reason. There will be no exuses, no blaming, no second chances!! h is aware of this as well. I think that it is extremely important when faced with infidelity that the betraying partner understands that though they are forgiven for this indiscretion they will not be forgiven again.
I see no point in trying to say everything LL just said by rewording it. I will just say "ditto" on every point.
All that I would add in addition is that, my H also thought that his A being discovered meant the end. If it is possible, I think he beat himself up over it even more than I did.
I pointed out quite a few examples of people we both know who's marraige had survived after an A. H wasn't aware that they had gone through that, and I wanted him to see examples that there was hope.
What I didn't tell him was that in every case, even in the marraiges that ended up much more strong and stable that before-A, the betrayed spouses have all told me the same thing:
Even though you can find a strange kind of gratitude for the positive changes that occured when they had to piece their marraiges back together....
The feelings of betrayal and violation NEVER really go away. Like survivors of a near-fatal car accident, there are many similarities. I suppose it is Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome to one degree or another, depending on the sitch and how much damage was done.
I've heard those spouses describe that the triggers that set off a wave of emotions get fewer and less intense over time, but that it never REALLY goes away. I think it is realistic to expect that I will probably experience the same thing those people describe. How could something be erased that effects and changes you down to the very core of your being?
I believe that it will get easier as time goes on...fewer flashbacks, fewer nightmares, etc. I believe that learning to live with the process is the deliberatly chosen price I am paying to save my R.
I believe that it will get easier as time goes on...fewer flashbacks, fewer nightmares, etc.
I'm seeing this to be true. Even though it does seem to take a lot of time.
The "triggers" seem to be a kind of wierd thing, too. They seem to come out of nowhere at times. I have found, though, that they come around more often when the general "temperature" of the relationship is "low". When I see things starting to get back to the way they used to be, or maybe in limbo, with no signs of forward movement.
For me, the triggers are a sign to start taking a closer look at some of the "little things" that aren't going quite right in the R, and shift the focus to there. Not always easy to do, but much less painful for me than dwelling on the A.
JJ
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Most people are much happier in their second marriages because they've learned from their mistakes."
How many people do you know that believe this to be true? (Not counting anybody in the entertainment industry?! )
How many of you know people that are in your second, third, or even fourth marriage, who keep making the same "mistakes"? That maybe all they have learned is to get a better pre-nuptual agreement up front?!
What are your thoughts about when Michele says "Unless you understand that "marriage" doesn't make people happy, you will spend the rest of your life trading in marital partners for new ones."?
When she talks about being satisfied with your own life, and being on a path that is satisfying to you as an individual?
What are your thoughts as this relates to both you, and your partner?
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Most people are much happier in their second marriages because they've learned from their mistakes." I am on my second marriage and even though we are going through DR it was by far better than my first. Even now, despite my H EA and MLC, I love him and have been more happy than ever. I have only been DR loyal for about a month, but I think I'm beginning to see some positive responses and I may be able to save this second marriage and avoid discovering a third.
How many people do you know that believe this to be true? (Not counting anybody in the entertainment industry?! ) I have been told that subsequent marriages are more prone to failure and that has always been a little unnerving.
How many of you know people that are in your second, third, or even fourth marriage, who keep making the same "mistakes"? That maybe all they have learned is to get a better pre-nuptual agreement up front?!
My mother is on number three and still has the bad habits, but has found a compliant spouse who ignores her habits.
What are your thoughts about when Michele says "Unless you understand that "marriage" doesn't make people happy, you will spend the rest of your life trading in marital partners for new ones."? I believe she hit the nail on the head. It is a common misconception that the marriage is the happy ending and the rest is pure joy. WRONG. Movies end at the wedding because the marriage is hard work, this may also be why subsequent marriages tend to fil, because people keep looking for the permanent puppy love relationship.
When she talks about being satisfied with your own life, and being on a path that is satisfying to you as an individual? This makes sense, but I'm still working on making myself happy right now. I'll get back to yo on that one
What are your thoughts as this relates to both you, and your partner?
I think that I am trying to learn as much as I can from Michelle and hope that she is right. I have religiously followed the DR book and I am fortunate to have a C who recommended it. After 5 weeks I am starting to see some positive results. There is still no 'I love you' or free kisses, but there is more pleasant conversation and the occasional gentle touch on the shoulder, back, arm or whatever. I am choosing to believe this will work and will not quit.
Quote: Most people are much happier in their second marriages because they've learned from their mistakes."
I truly think that if I got a D and got remarried and faithfully followed DR and everything I have learned through couseling (trying to save this marraige), that I could be a success.
I would rather be a succes with the person I am ALREADY married to though! Unfortunatly he doesn't see it that way!!!
Quote: What are your thoughts about when Michele says "Unless you understand that "marriage" doesn't make people happy, you will spend the rest of your life trading in marital partners for new ones."?
This is true and I keep telling myself that , but I hate when I am out and see a couple gazing into each other's eyes, etc. It makes me miss what I had with my H and wonder if I will ever have it again with him or with soemone else!
Quote: When she talks about being satisfied with your own life, and being on a path that is satisfying to you as an individual?
I know that this is basically what DBing is all about. I know I am happy as I will get as a separated person living in limbo. It is so hard to be happy being alone when you know that the person who used to love you is now an alien!!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
I'm going to have to step outside of the theory, although I completely understand Michele's point, and think it is probably true for most people.
I married the first time at 16 years old. I was completely clueless and definately didn't marry for love. As time went on, all of the signs I should have seen early on became a pattern of him drinking and being abusive. I attempted to make it work, but there was never going to be any happy ending there.
My current H was married twice before, briefly. Despite birth control, he had the misfortune of getting a woman pregnant. She wanted to have the baby Because he was in the military, he was able to provide certain benefits, including free medical care for mother and baby if he married the mom. I knew them at this time (strange story--my first H and I were their next-door neighbors and friends) They definately did not marry for love and the marraige died a natural death.
Second time around, he again, despite birth control, got ANOTHER woman pregnant. Yeah, yeah, I know.... SAME story, he married the woman to provide for the child, marraige died a natural death.
By this time, he'd had enough of the unplanned babies and got "fixed".
He and I remained friends. His wife #1 and I remained friends. I lost track of him for a couple years and ran into him one day out shopping. We exchanged phone numbers and planned to get together to catch up. As we walked away, my son asked me "who was that guy?" I said, "that's an old friend of mine. I can't explain it, but I have the strongest voice inside me saying I'm going to marry that guy!" It was so weird, but 6 months later, we were living together and have raised my two sons and his two sons together.
Basically, it was the first time either of us actually CHOSE to be in a relationship and went into it with full knowledge and intent.
Despite the difficulty we have had the past two years, with him in full-blown MLC and having an affair, I would have to say even now that we are much happier that in previous marraiges. In fact, now that we are addressing some of the cracks that were in the foundation of our relationship, we can both picture ourselves growing old together.
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