Starting a new thread because the old one is about to be locked... Last thread: Last Thread
Taking many of my posts over the last two days and combining them into one because I did alot of streaming thoughts's /events in many threads...
W called me from work. I'm not answering. She only calls when she wants to confront me with something. Normally she would email for casual talk. Prob wants the money for the lawyer or a baby sitter. W sends email and wants to sign on 11/24. Looks like time is runnig out. I replied w/ Puppy's response.
W replies: I understand H. I really do. I just don't think I will be 100% in it (fear of the future) and that's not fair to you. ME: I understand. Those are your feelings and they are valid. I' not trying to argue your feelings. It was just something I had to say. What kind of bothers me is her "it's not fair to you" response. There is no way she can feel like that w/ the way she is acting.
W also responds "I really wish I felt differently". Do you, really? OK, this has just gotten insane...... I think techguy's IC was right on... here is our last exchange..... -------------------------- W: appointment set up for Monday November 24th at 6:00 to sign papers ME: I'm thinking of setting up my own appointment. I want to take the time to go thru everything and ask questions. W: you dont want me there? ME: Nothing more than I wrote. W: that's what we will do that day ME: Sounds like you want me there with you. Why? W: so we both know everything we need to know. ME: Not sure I follow that. I'll let you know what I'm going to do. (W calls, I don't answer) W: call me ME: Sorry, w. I'm not going to do that. W: so now you're not talking to me? what did I do? this is exactly why I decided to go this route. you cant stop hurting me! you just cant.
How was this hurting her? I haven't replied to this. She's just a F*cking manipulator.
W now sends this email about how I hurt her: "trying to talk to you and you dont want to talk to me.... why dont you want to talk about the appointment? there are things that I cant say "correctly" through email."
W calls. Her complaint was it would cost more money to go separately. How is that something that can’t be explained “correctly” thru email?
I'm tired of being manipulated..... W starts exchange again...
W sends another email....
W: you still chose to be the way you have always been. Im the one paying for all of this and you refuse to give me any money, but yet you want to schedule a meeting without me there. this all pertains to me too! you cant keep things from me, just as I havn't from you. you are choosing to be difficult and give me a hard time now. I will call my lawyer and discuss with him private meetings that I WILL NOT pay for. I cant afford what I have already paid for (no help from you even though you said you would pay half). thanks for nothing. ME: I'm allowed to disagree.
All this because I don't want to hold hands and walk into the L's office?
This is some BS. She WILL NEVER change her impression of me. She is acting like a child. why is did she decide yesterday and schedule an appointment for the day I get back in town? W is like this, everything in a hurry. ------------------- I don't think I'm being old A right now. I need to protect myself if I'm signing D papers. It would be foolish not to ask questions. Questions my W doesn't know to ask. Or questions that may hurt her feelings. Or have her try to pressure me into something. It's not right in my opinion. ---------------- Just want to point out that my W is having the behavior control issues. She's now just making snide remarks like "I will think what I want to think because now I can". WTF does that mean? If I disagree, all hell breaks loose. She has anger issues. All her anger, for everything in her life, is directed at me.
Is there any element of creating chaos when there isn't any? W doing that I mean. As you've gotten more and more in control of yourself...I think she finds this threatening. Threatening probably isn't the right word...off balance I guess.
I just see some fight-picking going on with her. I could be wrong, so don't take that to the bank or anything.
A, and LE, that is an interesting question... I don't think there is an easy answer in reference to how we DB and its effect on our W's if they are, indeed, BPD.
However, I think the pertinent thing to consider is that DB'ing is for us as individuals. We need to put ourselves in a better place to live our lives. How that, in turn, affects the behavior of our wives is a collateral effect. We have no control over their actions whether we DB or not. So if do not DB to save our selves, but we stay with these women; we have gained nothing. If we DB, and these women leave us; we have gained ourselves back. If we DB, and these women come around; we have reached our ultimate goal.
Is there any element of creating chaos when there isn't any? W doing that I mean. As you've gotten more and more in control of yourself...I think she finds this threatening. Threatening probably isn't the right word...off balance I guess.
I just see some fight-picking going on with her. I could be wrong, so don't take that to the bank or anything.
She totally picked a fight because she didn't get he way. She's always dramatic. When I disagree w/ her I'm controlling. W just can't accept another POV (w/ me anyway). She bends over backward for her friends/family and they treat her like crap. Then, in turn, she treats me/kids like garbage.
Seeing all these negative traits and it makes it easy to go dark. I be dark until we go sign papers. This is more toward self preservation. I can't do ANYTHING put agree with everything she says or there will be hell to pay.
W sent me a few texts last night trying to start a conversation. I didn't reply. Just done with her BS.
I know my W is no good for my emotional health. I know she needs help. I know I can start a new life easily provided I can stand to watch her suffer. I know the kids will be OK because I'm in their life.
I'm just disapointed and angry w/ her. I'm angry I bit on her attempt to start an arguement. Not sure if it was a test.
Finished up HEALS and it helps I just have too much emotional baggage right now. My impulse to control/protect is trying to consume me but I won't let it.
W sent me a few texts last night trying to start a conversation. I didn't reply. Just done with her BS.
I can feel the frustration she is causing you. I've felt it myself so much from my W. Was she trying to bait you into an argument? By not responding she assumes you are mad and ignoring her, or cell is off or battery dead. What if you had responded with "I am busy and don't have time for text's right now, catch you tomorrow." Just wondering what you think because this sounds like something my W would do.
You mentioned HEALS. I bought the book last evening. Looking forward to finding time to read it.
Last edited by Little Engine; 11/14/0805:40 PM.
M42 S12/D9 T17/M12 Bomb 1 3/22/06 Bomb 2 7/11/08 Bomb 3 7/31/08 W Filed 8/1/08 D granted 12/17/08 D Finalized 1/29/09
A man who compromises his principles never had them in the first place.
I bout the HEALS training program and you can download it. I'm really impatiant right now.
The thing is when I distance, she comes closer. When W doesn't get the reaction she wants, she picks a fight or makes a wild accusation and says something like "you haven't changed". W doesn't think I haven't changed because I'n not giving into her every wish. Some things I just can't do and have to look out for myself. I must have bounderies at this point.
I bout the HEALS training program and you can download it. I'm really impatiant right now.
The thing is when I distance, she comes closer. When W doesn't get the reaction she wants, she picks a fight or makes a wild accusation and says something like "you haven't changed". W doesn't think I haven't changed because I'n not giving into her every wish. Some things I just can't do and have to look out for myself. I must have bounderies at this point.
Any I getting out of whack?
It sounds like you're getting IN whack...if that makes sense. Keep distancing. She's the one now trying to press buttons and get some kind of reaction. Although I'd say that's probably not conscious on her part, or at least not totally. Her brain doesn't know what to do with new A.
Breakaway - Damn you!!! You always give me hope and good perspective. If you don't stop doing that, I won't be able to get pi$$ed. LOL. Thanks for your input. You're a great friend.
I think she gets mad because I'm not escallating with her when she's yelling. She gets mad that I say I'm sorry for getting her mad and turns into a child.
Distance kind of goes against my 180's but my 180's trended toward persuing.
Breakaway - Damn you!!! You always give me hope and good perspective. If you don't stop doing that, I won't be able to get pi$$ed. LOL. Thanks for your input. You're a great friend.
I think she gets mad because I'm not escallating with her when she's yelling. She gets mad that I say I'm sorry for getting her mad and turns into a child.
Distance kind of goes against my 180's but my 180's trended toward persuing.
Distance is so you don't go crazy. And she's not trying to communicate, she's trying to fight. No payoff.
You know..I've had my H YELL at me for being calm. Like the few times (which are becoming more common now) that I don't take the bait and get into a yelling match...he'll say OH SO YOU THINK YOU CAN BE ALL CALM NOW???? And I'll say...you're yelling at me for being calm?? That really makes him mad, LOL.
You know..I've had my H YELL at me for being calm. Like the few times (which are becoming more common now) that I don't take the bait and get into a yelling match...he'll say OH SO YOU THINK YOU CAN BE ALL CALM NOW???? And I'll say...you're yelling at me for being calm?? That really makes him mad, LOL.
Found proof that W had a PA w/ BFFs brother........and he dumped her already (mid August) because he didn't want to commit.... He is still pursing..
Also found out that W found an boyfriend from 1193 that she is trying to hook back up w/. He has been married for 9yrs. W is pursing him.... OM2 already said he loves her.
After reading all the stuff from W's OM X 2......I reached the conclusion that the LL is: control, immature love, lack of commitment, more control, begging, no remorse, pursueing, stupidity, bad grammer... I may have missed some.
After reading all the stuff from W's OM X 2......I reached the conclusion that the LL is: control, immature love, lack of commitment, more control, begging, no remorse, pursueing, stupidity, bad grammer... I may have missed some.
Alright, A, Now if the situation was not as sad as it is, that would be some funny funny stuff. No, even with the situation, that is some funny, funny stuff.
I can see you struggling with this and that is okay. better you unleash your witty sarcasm on us, not her.
SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
Also found out that W found an boyfriend from 1193 that she is trying to hook back up w/.
Wow, your wife is <old>.
Sorry, couldn't resist trying to bring some humor to your day.
So does one of PA's hurt more than the other? Seems like you might have guessed about BFF's brother, plus that one seems to be 'old history' by now. What about old boyfriend? Is that one ongoing?
Try not to burn bridges right now if you can avoid it. This doesn't have to be a deal-breaker unless you want it to be. I truly believe that W's recent escalation behavior's will pass if you keep distancing.
Give yourself the luxury of time to process this. Go dark and process. If you still think it's a deal breaker by Nov 26th, then you have an easy out. But if you don't, you will still have options.
My condolences for your 'violation'. That sucks, my friend..
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
Hey A - so sorry to hear what you are going through. Just caught up on your thread. Is this a dealbreaker for you? If not, be very careful how you handle. Is Puppy around???
Strength and Honor.
Last edited by mulesqb; 11/15/0802:10 PM.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
So does one of PA's hurt more than the other? Seems like you might have guessed about BFF's brother, plus that one seems to be 'old history' by now. What about old boyfriend? Is that one ongoing?
Good question. BFF's brother really hurt because she lied about it. In the past, BFF wants W to hook up with him (about a yr ago) and W sai "I don't even like him". That may have been true at the time but she sure learned to like him.
Two Affairs seems to hurt less...Now as I see it, W is looking to replace me w/ anything she can. She is so empty as a person that she is sick. Did I do this to her? Maybe a little but she obvoiusly has deep deep issues.
I will never confront he w/ the information as it will make it easier on her. When she lied and told me she was 'just talking' to OM1, she felt better about it after she told me.
I am going very dark....and I will sign on 11/24.
This is a deal breaker for me.... that is how I feel right now.
It will be intersting to hear what Puppy has to say.
Two Affairs seems to hurt less...Now as I see it, W is looking to replace me w/ anything she can. She is so empty as a person that she is sick. Did I do this to her? Maybe a little but she obvoiusly has deep deep issues.
Don't forget this A. In the end she is wrecking herself more than she can ever damage you. You've shown incredible strength through this whole process. Hang on to that, we're here for you.
[quote=breakawayDon't forget this A. In the end she is wrecking herself more than she can ever damage you. You've shown incredible strength through this whole process. Hang on to that, we're here for you. [/quote]
Thanks for the support. Why is she doing what she is doing?
[quote=breakawayDon't forget this A. In the end she is wrecking herself more than she can ever damage you. You've shown incredible strength through this whole process. Hang on to that, we're here for you.
Thanks for the support. Why is she doing what she is doing? [/quote]
Well, I wish I could tell you. I don't know, A. SHE doesn't know is probably why you can't figure it out. She's got some real problems. All you can do right now is deal with her actions. I would expect some fireworks if you go completely dark and then sign. I think she will have no clue as to how to handle that. BUT, the only thing you should concern yourself with right now is yourself and the kids. Follow your plan, regardless of whatever craziness she comes up with next. Expect craziness, and then you won't be so shaken up when it happens.
My W is showing some of the same things rite now. She has her "true love" but is also seeking out another guy she knows. Her favorite thing to say of course.....she is strong and can do it all by herself!!! It's to much to think about honestly....so I don't. Do you have anyone you can verbalize this stuff to? Typing here is one thing....actually saying the words to someone helps me a lot....even if that person has no answers to give..it relieves ALOT of weight. I "chat" with my mom about those kinds things about once a week.
H 34 W 31 M 11yrs D 11 D 9
6-1-08 I wanted to fix marriage 6-11-08 I found out about OM
Add another set of prayers going up for you and your family from The Old Dominion. I know how hard this, knowing that the kids are being affected, DESPITE what our spouses are trying to convince themselves.
Reflect, pray, and let God show you your path to take in all of this.
SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
Everyone - Thanks for you prayers. I really need them right now.
W sent me a text last night that she missed our family and really wants to come home but she's scared and that she will always love me. That was out of the blue. I didn't reply. She WANTS ME TO CHASE HER.
Then I get a text today that the kids want to see me before I leave on Monday. I wrote back that today was packed but I was available tonight or tomorrow. W has plans Sunday and is going to a party tonght and she GOT MAD. She punishes me for everything. Well, just when she doesn't get her way. Did the kids really want to see me or did she need a baby sitter. Probably both.
Hell, even if I wanted to reconcile, she is so messed up that I can't even 180. I would have to do a constant 360.
Now she is just firing off insults and I'm not responding....
"You never changed" "I asked u what u were doing today...but u r too busy for us" - Too busy for us? I thought the kids wanted to see me? Or you had nothing else to do.
There are more but why waste my time typing rubbish.
She wants me to chase... ain't gonna happen although that would be a 180.
I need to get away from W and her drama. Within 12 hours she is polar opposites and I'm not interested in it.
I need to work on me. I need to not reward her for her anger and OM1 and OM2. She wants to be friends w/ benefits and I don't want any of that. I'm better than that.
I need to get away from W and her drama. Within 12 hours she is polar opposites and I'm not interested in it.
I need to work on me. I need to not reward her for her anger and OM1 and OM2. She wants to be friends w/ benefits and I don't want any of that. I'm better than that.
It's not that she's hurting me, I'm in a no win sitch. I'm not playing that game.
W fires off this unsolicited beauty. "This is why I want a D. You always hurt me. You just can't stop hurting me." Uh, all I did was not bite on her efforts to argue or me grovel.
This say 2 of 10 days w/ the kids for her. I will talk to the kids but not her while I am gone.
I know this. She will get the D to punish me. Not sure if I want to fight it many more. I've been thinking all day about "what M means to me". I prayed on it twice and still don't have an answer.
dont give up praying about it really. God will give you the answer. and yes you are do deserve better than that. I am proud of you for not playing her game. hugs
M 36 XH 34 3 children If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mark 3:25 "your mood swings are giving me whiplash" twilight ALIVE FREE AND HAPPY 2010
Turns out OM2 is from my hometown and I've been here 32 years. He graduated a year behind me and I don't know him. My brother posed this question, "You going to drop the dime to his H?". I couldn't answer that. I think it's wrong for him to write what he wrote to my W.
I think OM2 would run away from my W if the dime was dropped. I think he's just trying to get laid. He seems either very unstable or a player.
OM2 has been married 9 years. It would be easy to get info on him. Not sure what to do.
Turns out OM2 is from my hometown and I've been here 32 years. He graduated a year behind me and I don't know him. My brother posed this question, "You going to drop the dime to his H?". I couldn't answer that. I think it's wrong for him to write what he wrote to my H.
OM2 has been married 9 years. It would be easy to get info on him. Not sure what to do.
A. Listen to me. Don't do ANYTHING right now. In fact...get the hell out of your house or something. Go shopping (okay that's girl advice, but maybe you should go hang out in the hardware store right now). Go see James Bond. STOP THINKING ABOUT W. For now.
uh oh i think breakaway will hunt you down if you dont mind lol!
prayer prayer prayer
M 36 XH 34 3 children If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mark 3:25 "your mood swings are giving me whiplash" twilight ALIVE FREE AND HAPPY 2010
I'm tearing out my kitchen floor right now. I'm going to tie one on later today.
Needless to say, W is making this horrible. She is sh*tting where she sleeps and doing it in my extended social network. Either she is really neive or dying to get caught.
I'm tearing out my kitchen floor right now. I'm going to tie one on later today.
Needless to say, W is making this horrible. She is sh*tting where she sleeps and doing it in my extended social network. Either she is really neive or dying to get caught.
hey well come see me when your done, I will provide the drinks! I got the stove roaring, and football on the tv and radio!
it is VERY hard when they do it in our network of anykind, my H ow is from my hometown, where most of my family and our friends live. I kno he didnt want it out there, but she sure blabbed, that was stupid.
you can do nothing right now. I know you can!!!
M 36 XH 34 3 children If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mark 3:25 "your mood swings are giving me whiplash" twilight ALIVE FREE AND HAPPY 2010
M 36 XH 34 3 children If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mark 3:25 "your mood swings are giving me whiplash" twilight ALIVE FREE AND HAPPY 2010
If you're going to drink, you have to listen to this song. You might need a hounddog lying around too, I'm not sure. I don't think this is DB...but f**k it.
You know I don't like that you can't delete your posts if you change your mind. I'm kind of regretting my last post, I'm just flippant sometimes with my gallows humor. Sorry if it wasn't appropriate.
ahhhhhhhhh its ok, i actually love that song, and have applied it in my life a few times lol!!
M 36 XH 34 3 children If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mark 3:25 "your mood swings are giving me whiplash" twilight ALIVE FREE AND HAPPY 2010
If you're going to drink, you have to listen to this song. You might need a hounddog lying around too, I'm not sure. I don't think this is DB...but f**k it.
OOOHHHH I forgot about that song! When I turn my phone back on, maybe I will make THAT my new ringback tone!!
SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
She is suffering from immense anxiety. She has done very bad things and has put herself into a very bad situation. She is looking for anything which will soothe her.
So she is escalating, both directions (positive and negative). When the positive (I want to come home) doesn't work right away, then she swings to negative (D stuff).
You need to stay dark. At some point she will collapse from mental exhaustion and the cycle will stop.
My wife had invaded my home and then was hysterically yelling into the answering machine a while back. She would have been threatining D, but already had the process going anyway.
I stayed calm and sure enough... just a few days later she collapsed.
Every situation is different. But if I were a betting man I would wager that your wife will collapse and the crazyness will stop by this Friday at the latest.
I think your degree of darkness should be proportional to her craziness. Right now, be very dark. But if you see even a small bit of rational behavior from her in the next few days then I would give at least a couple of short, calm, balanced text responses. You want to reward rational behavior and punish craziness.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
Tech - I remember your sitch. That's brilliant. What happened after she collapsed?
This behavior isn't intellectual. It's much more 'primal' than that. It takes alot of energy to maintain the level of drama your wife is exhibiting. She's (trying) to have alot of exchanges with you. And for every exchange she makes, you can bet she thinks about stuff dozens or hundreds of times. She's perpetually in an elevated state of emotion. It's literally a chemical thing... she is producing adreniline all the time.
There is a great chart describing his up on Wikipeida. I can't post a jpg, so you'll need to follow this link to view it. The chart shows the cycle. Your wife is in 'resistance' right now, but can't maintain that level forever... sooner or later she will fall into exhaustion.
So at some point she will hit exhaustion. Don't expect some big apology when that happens. That would require a level of intellectual thinking your wife simply doesn't have right now. (I.e. to apologise she would have to be intellectual enough to think through her old behaviors, see her new situation and recognise the error of her ways... too complicated).
When my wife hit exhaustion, she just 'calmed down'. Nothing really more than that. But that calmer state is an <opporitunity> for you to have more civil conversations. And you can 'reward' those civil exchanges, which, over time, will start to show her a new way to behave which is rewarding.
When my wife crashed, she did (begrudgingly) admit that she 'over-reacted'. That was as close as I got to an apology. But end of day, this isn't about apologies for me. I just want to repair the relationship. A new level of more civil behavior is reward in itself, I don't need the apology.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
One other thought. This one is a bit subtle, but I think it's important for you to keep it around in the back of your head.
Just wanted to note that there is a big difference in perspectives here. You just found out about the PA's, so you've experienced a giant level of change over the last few days.
But for wife, nothing has really changed lately. OM1 is 'old history' and OM2 is on-going.
So, net-net, for you everything has changed and for wife nothing has changed in the last few days. This difference in perspective will tend to color your interactions (when you come out of being dark some day).
Basically, if you make a big deal about this someday, wife will likely be confused. To her, this stuff is old history. Just be prepared for that when it comes.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
Tech - Thanks for the info. I always like to understand what is really going on rather than react to her.
Tawnya - Much better. Floor is gone and I'll have a brand new floor when I get home on Friday!!!
Got 3 texts from W today: 1. At noon, W sent text: "Not going to my dad's today". She changes her mind more than she changes her clothes. She wanted me to take the kids so bad yesterday but I had commitments. This text was to make me guess that I should ask for the kids. Again, I have commitments today so it would be difficult.
2. At 2:45 pm: "What time r u leaving tomorrow? Want me and the kids to house sit a little for you?". WOW! WTF. Most think she's trying to do a nice thing. Reality is she is trying to get out of her mothers house for a while.
3. 2:54 pm: "Ok, you ignoring me is really getting old". Impatient? She can't stand I'm dark. Can't stand it.
I haven't responded to any yet. Should I respond to any of them? I was thinking about saying something like: "Thanks for the house sitting offer. I've made arrangements."
This is very difficult. I don't want to see or talk to her. Still numb as all my feelings for her vanished.
She still takes all her anger out on me and I need better than that. I understand it's a trait of WAW but the A's are really bothering me. W is giving them 110% and me nothing. I know that is selfish and I'm being used. Going dark is the best place for me.
Just dropping in to offer some support. If going dark is what is best for you, then it is what is best period. You have to be okay before you can be good for anyone else.
I think the response you mentioned is good because it politely addresses her "complaint" that you are ignoring her while not giving her any more information than she should get.
W sends me a text: "Who is watching the house, do is watching the dog? You don't trust me? Don't want me in the house?"
Trust her??????????????? HELL NO!!!
I used to get half excited about seeing text from W and usually they were because she wanted something. Now I cringe. I know I'll never get a 'how are things going' text or call. Before that would hurt me, now I don't really care. Not even sure how I would handle that.
I used to run to this board every time I heard from W. Now, I don't care too much. I feel I'm detached now. I'm almost rid of the co-depenancy I had w/ W. I don't need her to make me happy. I'm cool w/ me.
I started with about the same feelings about a week ago....I actually don't answer when my W calls and I rarely even talk to her lately ....and we live in the same house! I hear ya with the "cool with me" statement. Same thing with coming here all the time.
I think I will go post in my own thread now!
H 34 W 31 M 11yrs D 11 D 9
6-1-08 I wanted to fix marriage 6-11-08 I found out about OM
{{{A in Ohio}}}} I'm so glad you'll have new floors by Friday..nice when you are having a "challenge" like this to see something fresh and new isn't it?? I think that's why I've cleaned more stuff more often in the past 5 weeks than in many years..deep cleaned carpets, the cars, etc LOL
Tawnya
Me:39 H:40 D18/S12 M20/T21 Bomb 10/11/08 One Two Three Four
Greeting from the south. I traded cold and snowing for sunny and warm. What a good week to travel for business.
Still getting snotty emails from W. Current complaints:
-having to take S5 to the dentist -W having to pay for a sitter Friday night -why I'm ignoring her -not calling the kids even though W said they were too busy this weekend -Daycare issues that I supposedly don't care about.
You name it, it's on me. i go dark and she goes nuts. Sadly, I'm not even DBing. Just don't care.
I still think I'm getting played. Tired of the lies.
Puppy - I went back and read my last few threads. I owe you an apology my friend. You were spot on with your diagnosis.
{{{A}}} You know the interesting thing in a lot of cases is that people really can't see the plank in their eye for looking at our sawdust or what they THINK is our sawdust..it is so much easier to see what you are not doing (in her mind) than dealing with the home sitch without you there and realizing all the things she's not doing all of the time by her choices..
Just my thoughts..
Hope you are enjoying the warm...
Tawnya
Me:39 H:40 D18/S12 M20/T21 Bomb 10/11/08 One Two Three Four
Greatings everyone. Work has been really busy so I won't be able to check on my friends until later tonight.
Lots of upadates to post but I'll try to be brief... W started out the day punishing me for almost everything wrong with her life.... W goes on to say she has to reschedule the appt w/ the lawyer cause she has no money...calls me a bunch of names for not giving her money. Calls me a bunch more names....
Then I get this email: "I left because you didn't care enough to love me when I was there...then you change your mind...well, it's too late. Im sick and tired of trying to make everyone else happy! It's all about me and my kids now. I will do what I have to do to make us happy and that's it!"
I show empathy... then get this email: "A in Ohio, you have no idea how much i want my family back! i want my life back (you and me and the kids). i am lost! and stranded. and dying inside. Im just too afraid that i will be stuck in this spot again and then what? i love you so much, all this is killing me but im so afraid that it will go right back to the way it was. im sick of failing! im sick of trying to make people love and respect me!"
I show empathy again and get this email: "im so lost because I still dont know what to do...what if its a mistake to come back, what if its a mistake to not come back..."
I ask W why she is in a hurry to get a D if she is so confused. I get this email: "because you keep saying how this was the best thing that happened to you, and I keep thinking that things will go right back to the way they were...im super scared"
I clarify what I REALLY said and meant and get this response: "tell me what I should do!" I didn't respond and got this unsolicited email "would you like to go on a date with me?".
Then we have this exchange.... ME: What would be the goal of this "date" W: "no goal. I love you" ME: "How do u feel about all this?" W: "what? you're my husband. you are working on you. you are bettering yourself. I should be there to help because you are making an attempt. it wouldn't be right of me to not give us that chance. but... I want to spend time alone before I just run back. I want to be sure...is that ok?" (Did she read DBing or something?) ME: I appreciate your honesty. W: "my heart is jumping all over the place...my head is spinning! would you mind if I came with the kids on Saturday for a bit?" ME: "Let me think about it. I wasn't expecting all this and need a minute to process".
First, you sound like you are doing really well. That is great!
Second, you clearly handled W's last emotional whirlwind very well. Choosing to remain respectful but going dark letting her get her anger out but not affect you. I am impressed.
Third, I am with MC, why not go on the date and have no expectations and keep it light? See where it goes.
Personally, she would need to show some CONSISTENT improvement in her interactions with you before I would consider it. She obviously has no idea what she wants, why would you expose yourself to yet another disappointment so soon after the last?
"I'm sure I know what I want in terms of our R, when you are sure you share my goal I would be happy to go out. Until then I'm afraid that my answer must be no."
Man up.
H: 38 W: 36 S: 8 S: 5 M: 16 Bomb: 8/25/08 OM: 9/21/08 EA (Possible PA) with co-worker since 5/08 (at least...) Sep: 9/21/08 D Filed 9/23/08 My Situation
I've never posted to you but I think I've read all your stuff. Just wanted you to know that I think you are doing a real good job of staying sane in the midst of all the craziness. It appears that what you are doing is working. Your task is to real in your 110 pound fish using 20lb test. Your doing great being calm, steady and detached.
Sometimes I imagine your wife like in the movie Alien. You wife is writhing around waiting for the evil being inside of her to come out. It seems like at some point she will just pop like a big WAW zit or like the guy in Monty Python and normalacy will return.
Probably doesn't help much but you are actually inspirational to some others around here. Keep fighting the good fight. I check on you every day and am pulling for you.
Me 44 She 46 S13 D9 M18 T23 3 years DB'ing Successfully busted
Found out today that W put things on hold W OM1. Heard that she doesn't think it will go anywhere. W thinks OM is awesome and has a blast w/ him but W believes OM has too many issues. OM mentioned R w/ W was like end of his M (currently married).
W's BFF (OM1's BFF) is super mad. Literally yelling at W over this and talking her in D. Pushing her into D. BFF is toxic.
I had no expections because I felt like I was being played. Now I feel like W is lost.
Found out today that W put things on hold W OM1. Heard that she doesn't think it will go anywhere. W thinks OM is awesome and has a blast w/ him but W believes OM has too many issues. OM mentioned R w/ W was like end of his M (currently married).
Nutfarmer - Either that or I'm DBing descent. At this point, I'm GALing and PMA for me. Even BFF said, "he's saying things you wanted him to say for 6 yrs, well it's too late". What a b*tch. Talk about controlling.
Your right on point. She is treating everyone like garbage and lying to all our faces. She is confused right now.
If the answer is yes, I'll be maybe the lone voice here and say that you should then go for it. I don't mean, play coy and indifferent and ignore all her calls and e-mails. I mean, say yes to the date and go from there. If it doesn't pan out on the date, then what have you lost? If the date is fine, then you see more of each other, but things derail, what have you lost? I'm not saying chase her like crazy; I'm saying that you should guardedly give her a chance to put her money where her mouth is. Let her try to win you back.
Go on this date. Have fun. DO NOT have a deep discussion about your future. If she wants to talk about it, just say, "I'd like to just try to have an enjoyable date with you tonight, like old times, and then we can talk about 'us', if there is an 'us', after that." Make the most of it. Wow her with how awesome you are. And then search your feelings for what you want out of this. Then ask yourself if there is a chance. If she's still interested after your date, tell her straight out, "you have one shot. Show even the slightest interest in OM and I'm done. There is no other chances. There is no explanation. I'm just done."
But that's me. I might have jumped back in too quick with my ex-wife, but almost three years after she made a similar, "can we try again" announcement, we are still together. But it takes work. And if you get to the point of actually trying again....you'll need help. My wife and I are making it work more from her efforts than mine. But I don't know your wife....can she do what it takes to make this work?
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Add me as a second "lone voice." I think that makes perfectly reasonable sense, Phoenix, so long as you include the strong (non-negotiable, actually) caveat that you stated.
Found out today that W put things on hold W OM1. Heard that she doesn't think it will go anywhere. W thinks OM is awesome and has a blast w/ him but W believes OM has too many issues. OM mentioned R w/ W was like end of his M (currently married).
So you must be the back-up plan. Blech.
She needs counseling.
Nut
Yes, she probably does need counseling.
But what she said is NOT the same thing as A being a back up plan. The OM WAS THE BACKUP PLAN. She's waking up that this isn't going to solve her problems, that OM "has issues"...OMG, that is the greatest realization that she can have!! Wait a minute...this guy has issues...I'm just part of his issues...WTF am I doing??
And if BFF is PUSHING her to D...then that will probably push her BACK to A, who isn't doing any pushing. I think someone trying to push her to D could be a big part of what's getting her so messed up in her own head...because it's challenging her "belief" that she should divorce. Now with someone pushing it, she's like..waitwaitwaitwait.
Also, A, your friends and family think W is bad for you and you should get rid of her...does that make them toxic? Maybe her friends really think you won't change. I think they are toxic too BTW, but do you see what I'm saying? I would expect her friends to talk that way, so don't get too worked up about THAT.
Lastly, I agree with Phoenix, even though I told him he can't post on my thread...
Are you strong enough now A in O? By now you should be in the, "what the he77, I've got nothing to lose" mentality. If you can kick her to the curb, if necessary, and never look back, and you are to the point that you can't be hurt badly by her anymore, then you are in the driver's seat, which is where you need to be.
That being said, I'm worried because your wife sounds so wishy-washy and all over the place.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
A--Been away for a couple of days, just catching up.
What do you have to lose by saying yes to the date? If it goes well and you keep it light-hearted, that might negate some of the effects of her toxic friends. You could get your W back and get those people out of her life at the same time. At some point you've got to say, "this is what I have been working towards" and let W back in for a glimpse. Maybe this is the moment.
M42 S12/D9 T17/M12 Bomb 1 3/22/06 Bomb 2 7/11/08 Bomb 3 7/31/08 W Filed 8/1/08 D granted 12/17/08 D Finalized 1/29/09
A man who compromises his principles never had them in the first place.
Phoenix/LE/Breakaway/WhatdidIdo/Puppy/Superstar - You're all amazing peoplel that ask great questions and offer wonderful perspective. I've said it again, but THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING.
Little update to my sitch... W called this morning to tell me her and BFF (broke up). W doesn't know that I know the details. W was vague and said BFF was controlling and manipulative (I said that two yrs ago but just showed empathy).... She is planting the seeds, on her own, to come home. W knows that BFF had to go for us to work.
W kicked OM2 to the curb today. Also found out both were EA, not PA. Strong EA's though.
Excellent points from the board I need to consider.... "If you can kick her to the curb, if necessary, and never look back, and you are to the point that you can't be hurt badly by her anymore, then you are in the driver's seat, which is where you need to be. " Excellent point!
"I'm worried because your wife sounds so wishy-washy and all over the place. " --------She is, there is no doubt. She is hurting and sick.
"She is just going to crush you once again." ----- This is an honest comment. Will she try to do it?
Questions asked.... Do you want her back? Infedility was always a deal breaker to old A. I was insecure and didn't understand W's issues and hurt. My faith is pulling me in both directions right now. New A has to decide. I can't let my ego or selfish pride get in the way. I feel it at times trying to overwhelm me. It makes me grow angry. I'm happy I have an IC that gave me some good tools to help combat it on focus on my goal.
Are you strong enough now A in O? This is the million dollar question. Old A couldn't do it. Don't know if new A is ready.
I will pray on those questions for the next two days. When I get home, it has to be "go time" either way....
{{{A}}} I'm glad you are in the driver's seat on this one and I know you'll make the right decision my friend..look how far your right decisions and choices have gotten you THIS far in the process
Tawnya
Me:39 H:40 D18/S12 M20/T21 Bomb 10/11/08 One Two Three Four
Prayed last night about the sitch. Still don't know if I can man up on this. Decided to outline what it would take for our M to work. Thought that was really productive and helped me emotionally.
Called my brother last night because W was stopping over there to drop some stuff off. My bro said the W had her wedding ring on and she told them we were going to take it slow. So much for baby steps?!?!?!? W and I need to talk about the process and our expectations to make sure we're on the same page.
W called this morning to tell me she was thinking of me and shared her plans over the next two days. WOW, 180 for W. I listened and asked questions where appropriate. Nothing major. W asked when flight came in. I told her and she said, "Would you like for me and the kids to come over Sat morning or can we stay overnight on Friday". WHAT??? B-A-B-Y-S-T-E-P-S! Told W it would be best to come over Sat and we need to discuss our sitch. I told her that I want her to know what my expectations are prior the even attempting this. I also let her know that I want her to give me her expectations as well.
She's diving back head first and I haven't even filled up the pool.
At some point she will collapse from mental exhaustion and the cycle will stop.
Every situation is different. But if I were a betting man I would wager that your wife will collapse and the crazyness will stop by this Friday at the latest.
Well, don't want to blow my horn, but what day is it today? Hmmm... Thursday. Guess I missed by a day or two.
Keep in mind the context when I made the quote. Wife was acting crazy, you were headed for the big D paper signing on Nov 26th and you were 'done'. Pretty bleak times.
Things are never as good as you think, but their typically not as bad as you think either. I'm very happy for you that W has collapsed back with enough rationality to take baby steps.
Now I would suggest some small rewards to her, but your right to enforce babysteps.
Keep it up, your doing great.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
Yes, she's pushing forward hard...but that's okay. Just roll with this. See where things go. Find a really good time to express yourself, but it doesn't have to be right away. You can have fun for a bit with her. See how relaxed it can be and how you feel about you two together before getting all deep.
Your situation sounds so familiar. I was out of town, like you, my wife (XW at the time) stayed at the house to watch the pets, was waiting when I came home, and stayed ever since. It felt super natural...like we didn't miss a beat even though we had been separated for almost a year. Weird. You are right to be cautious and also to express your boundaries and expectations. But it's okay to go with the flow a bit also.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Well, luckily I got enough water in the pool to avoid serious injury...
Tech - You were spot on!
When I got home on Friday, W and kids were at my house sleeping. This wasn't the plan but I'm riding the wave right now. They were all on the sofa asleep and Iron Man was on TV. S6 was absolutely DYING to see it. I kissed W on the forehead and put the kids to bed. I was going to sleep on the love seat (I HATE waking people up when they are sound asleep). I turned back to the living room after tucking in the kids. W was standing in the hallway, all sleepy eyed w/ her arms out awaiting an embrace. W leads w/ ILY and a big hug.
We talk for about 2 hours. Talked about EVERYTHING but I will spare the details. Here is an overview...
- W said she was very scared when she left. That's why OM1 came into the picture. Said he got her mind off of it. -W said they did date but didn't ML. Said the luster wore off quickly and when it did, she was "shattered". She realized what she was losing and gaining anything in return. This led to .... -W wanted OM1 to make guarantees (you know when the R is failing you want to be guaranteed it will be ok). Said she wanted him to commit and he couldn't. W not realized that she was "in trouble" and OM1 was playing her. - W NEVER thought she could come back. Thought that she "ruined "everything". -OM2 sought her out after SIL told him about D. W learned about his sitch and pulled back before it even started.
This jives w/ everything the "eye in the sky" is showing me.
I spoke for about 5 min of the two hours. W really wants to come back but is scared. I told W that I am concerned as well. I also told her there are steps that are absolutely necessary before she moves back. This started the negotiation........
My "needs" 1. W must see IC for 8 weeks prior to moving back in. 2. W must be my equal. This is to help w/ her dependency issues. 3. Must talk for 15 minutes a day. Don't care what we talk about. 4. First sign of trouble, go to MC. 5. Be honest w/ her feelings.
W's needs 1. I have to be upfront w/ my feelings. 2. Let her in. (I've always kept her out of issues w/ my mother) 3. Listen and not judge. Yep, did this ALL THE TIME. 4. Keep IC going when I need to go. Don't be afraid to let her know when I need some help. 5. Give her time to figure things out on her own. 6. Be more involved w/ her family. 7. Help out more around the house.
Our "needs" - Already agree. 1. Banking must remain separate. W will buy groceries and pay utilities. I always complained about the grocery budget and "wasting" energy. Also, when I did the banking W had to "ask" to spend money. I hated that w/ a passion. 2. Found a good sitter for after school care. The current daycare was adding too much anxiety for both of us. 3. We must go on a minimum of 2 dates a month. We each get one night a week to "go do our thing", no questions asked. W asked if I would go with her to "do her thing" sometimes. I laughed because I knew this meant holding shopping bags.
W and kids stayed the entire weekend (until work this morning). W went to a party at my buddies and W was awesome. She always had issues w/ my friends but she was great. I almost cried. Then we hung out w/ the kids and watched movies. Great weekend! I sent her an email this morning thanking her for such a great weekend. W replied, "I was thinking the same thing on the way to work and started crying I was so happy".
Well, your W is not the only one crying this morning. Tears of joy for you both! It is a start and I am so happy for you. Now, revel in the glory for a bit, then it is time to roll up your sleeves and get busy at the business of rebuilding.
I am thrilled for you!
SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
I think this is a VERY good start, and -- in my opinion -- your wife sounds sincere. (I know, I know, everyone's shocked, right? LOL). Her words and actions just "ring true" to me.
Your lists, however, are WAY to "fuzzy" to me. Where is the agreement to no-contact and transparency??? Considering she has JUST come thru multiple OMs, this, to me, would be absolutely "1a" an "1b" on my list, and here's why:
Even IF she is sincere right now (and again, I believe she is), she is WAY too weak, emotionally, to pull this off without a bullet-proof no-contact/transparency plan in place.
Sandi, WDID or other FWAWs/AWAWs can chime in on this one as well, but I think you'd be playing with fire without having this in there, and NOW is the time to do it, as it is your moment of maximum leverage.
I'm sorry to be a "buzz-killer," man, I really am. But I was given this same advice, and I backed off on some of it, and I later regretted it -- BIG time. This is NOT a "negotiation"; you are perfectly within your right to tell her what YOU need in order for her to return.
Puppy - Your right, I wasn't prepared for the negotiation piece.
I left out the honest and transparent part of the talk. W has always had confidence issues and always thought I was hiding stuff. Was always defensive about things because no one trusted her. I WAS hesitant to discuss this but we did talk about it.
W brought up my "date" and how much it hurt her and it pushed her toward OM1 because she thought that it was truly over. W thought that she was easily replaceable. Right then, I wrote down my Yahoo user name/password and also my Blackberry password and gave it to W. W said, "what is this for". I told her, if you ever doubt, just log in and look. W did the same for yahoo but not for phone. I said to W, "This will not work unless we have no secrets". W said that she is done w/ BFF and her brother (OM1). They are both pi$$ed we are working this out. Said that her phone isn't locked and I can look at any time.
Now this doesn't mean things can't be deleted or sneaking can occur.
I feel it's necessary to go back and talk about this based upon Puppy's recomendation.
W came over immediately after work. I made one of her favorite dinners and then we make cupcakes as a family (D7's B-day is this week).
W wasn't feeling well so I picked up a bunch of the slack. I can't begin to count the number of "thank you's" I got. W insisted on cleaning half the house even though she was sick. Again, this women admitted to not cleaning or cooking prior to seperation. Hell, this was the first time she ever made cup cakes.
I played w/ the kids while W layed on the couch. W loves to watch me play and laugh with them. I always catch her gazing and smiling at us.
W leaves for MILs and kids stay at my house. W has them the rest of the week. W sends a text that she forgot something. I let her know that she can pick it up in the morning and wished her a good night. W replied, "I will try... don't want to be here.. :(" I replied that I miss her too. W responds w/ "Dream of me, ILU".
Things seem to be going well. ....I'm still having anger issues w/ EA and OM1... Actully, resentment and hurt are more accurate. This is going to be a long road.
A--Shake off the anger and resentment. When you have those things, you lose your power. Time will take care of the hurt. You've come so far and you don't want those things to get in the way of your progress. Be thankful for what it wasn't-PA with OM#1 and maybe and OM#2 or OM#3. Look at all the good your example is providing for others here. I let anger and resentment take over after OM#1 and PA and you know where I am now. Jame38 is another one who understands that forgiveness is crucial to healing.
I'm proud of you for all the changes you've made to save your family. In six months you have a clearer picture of why all this had to happen. Good for you on the negotiation. I think it all seems reasonable. The anger and resentment won't seem so important maybe. Have a good Thanksgiving.
M42 S12/D9 T17/M12 Bomb 1 3/22/06 Bomb 2 7/11/08 Bomb 3 7/31/08 W Filed 8/1/08 D granted 12/17/08 D Finalized 1/29/09
A man who compromises his principles never had them in the first place.
That really makes him mad, LOL.
