Quote: What areas of your relationship might it be helpful to "take off your blinders", and see things from a different perspective?
I'm guilty of having Blinders when it comes to trying to accomplish goals...
without thinking about it I'm one
who'll just do what needs to be done
& sometimes that leads to total complete focus being on the goal
& forgetting about the people who matter most...
my family...
althou it's for them that i'm throwing myself into what ever project that I'm working on...
althou I've not left or abandoned my family physically
i'm sure that to them especially my husband
it may have appeared that way (abandoned),
because I'll be so exhausted that I'd be bitchy
or fall out & crash for a few hours
only to get up & work some more on the project at hand...
even with his illness I treated it like any other project & do research on it
& be on the phone for 8 hrs a day sometimes
& then when he got home from work I'd try to tell him about what I'd did & found out & who I called
& instead of getting positive feedback from him
he didn't want to deal with it
so I just threw myself more into more research
so that I could get him well again
so he'd be back to being the fun happy guy I use to know
& that just didn't happen
instead he ended up with a diabetes diagnosis
that he couldn't deal with
& I missed the fact that he was having a real hard time with it
& just kept with my "nursing" attitude...
get the work done, keep calm, no matter what...
show no emotion to the patient...
it was my son who pointed out that one day when he was REALLY ILL from possible food poisioning
& was actually scaring me as I was trying to be calm & figure out what was wrong with him
by asking 101 questions
& talking of the work that needed to be done that day...
Son said that he was sitting there thinking that
"I'm going to die on this toilet & she's only talking about what did I eat & what we've got to do today"
he had no idea that inside I was panicing as to
HOW I was going to get him into the car
so I could get him to the proper hospital
(18 yr old - almost 6' tall & I've only got 1 good arm to work with)...
my outside appearance was calm, cool & non-chalant as if this was a common ocurrance...
I showed no sign of the panic which I really was feeling
Hubby most likely felt the same
& that opened up the EA for the OWhore
which lead to the PA after he left to go "back to the womb"
I wish I could turn back the hands of time there,
but can't
I don't know how to turn off the "nursing attitude"
but I wish that hubby could at least
look at things from my stand point...
my "nursing attitude" saved his eye sight back in 1994
when I got on the phone
& BITCHED at the Doc to see us immediately after lunch because hubby DID NOT have PINK EYE!
the eye surgeron who we ended up going to later
in the same day said
"THANK GOD you DID NOT take NO for an answer...
HE WOULD HAVE BLINDED PERMANETLY in that eye!"
The attitude does serve a purpose...
even in our car accident
I was more badly hurt than him but I was trying to get the 1st aide kit & not panicing...
but like Son who asked about my attiude after the crisis was over
He should have said some thing about feeling neglected...
getting meds taken on schedule
& administering 1st aide is not a job which can be done always in the most "caring loving" manner...
when time is of the essence,
orders many times need to be barked out
(Son didn't realise that he was a bit incohertant at the time)
& when a patient isn't following orders
it's not a time for sweetness
but simple matter of fact take these now
because u need them to get well...
maybe for the meds I should've been a bit more understanding but with a sugar reading of almost 600!
well it was not a time for me to be sweet
I had visions of him being dead next to me that nite!
A few nites after that
I woke up & he wasn't moving & was cold...
I thought that he had died!
until I managed to start turning him over
& he finally breathed!
You don't know how badly that freaked me out,
but I didn't tell him about until
a few days before he left
& then in an email afterwards
because I knew that he'd turned a deaf ear to what I said that nite I told him...
I'm trying to see things from his point of view but haven't yet been able to really see it...
he's not logical right now since he's full blown MLC...
I'm still trying to figure out how I can curb the "nursing attitude" but can't figure that one out yet either
Once I did my research on his diseases
there were many things which I no longer got upset with him about
I discovered that they were a result of either the disease or the meds which he was on,
being tired & sleeping so long,
not performing in the bedroom the greatest
(never complained verbally but maybe body language gave me away?)
the moodiness...
also symptoms of Depression & MLC,
which I didn't know to even look for at the time!
Then the increase of drinking & hangging out which only added to the health problems...
but he didn't want to see it that way...
can't go back & change things but how do I NOW go Forward?
I mean I can try to be not so focused on projects when I get doing them
& try to do them when he's not around...
but how to change the nursing attitude?
which I think really ended up hurting his feelings
& I didn't mean to that's for sure!?
Ok-I'm in, I just recommitted to reading DR and DB again and THIS time, taking action (1st time thought reading was going to be good enough!)
How SURE are you about things that are going to happen? I am not sure about anything these days--except that I am sure that I am going to give 150% effort in trying to save my marriage!
How much do you rely on the past, and the present, to predict the future? Especially about the "negative" things?
When it comes to the negative things, I tend to look at the past and present for learning about what not to do. I know that I have been the "mother" in our R--in the beginning it was necessary because he was new into being a recovering addict, but I could never let go of the reigns--even today I try to let go, but H continually does things to put me in that role--I don't think intentionally, but out of habit. If I try to pull out of that role, then I'm the b##ch. I'm trying to find new ways in the present to detach this aspect lovingly--welcome suggestions. I do use the positives from our past and present to predict the future, because I feel we've had a good M and the areas that were problematic can be fixed--so I reflect on the good times from the past, the loving daily goodbye kisses while 1/2 asleep --those keep me going..and then when I see a baby step I cautiously am reminded of what the M could be like.
How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view? What if you were a third-party looking at the events that are going on in your life? How might you see things differently?
If I were an outsider, I'd think--you are an idiot for sticking this out. You deserve better treatment than this. You are nuts for trying all this. Why do you want to be with a man who is with another woman? I'd see all these perspectives---but also hope that I could see that love is unconditional and we don't know why people love other people sometimes..
If you were to read your story on the board like it was someone else's thread, what would you post to yourself? What advice would you give to you? How well would you take that advice?!
I would post that it is not over until you are ready to say it's over. Keep trying what works and stop doing what doesn't. Follow your heart's desire--if that is to save the marriage, then pull out all the stops-use all the tools. Set your boundaries and keep to them. I think I would take this type of advice well--in fact last week I was losing hope and Talitsa replied to my thread saying she saw a lot of hope for my sitch and after she pointed out a few things I began to see what she could see--positive advice helps big time!! It's a lot easier to follow positive advice than the negative! Went to A today for information only--she tells me "he's not the man you thought he was"--DUH-he's been taken over by an alien (for now)..but the man I know and love is still buried deep down there!
If there was no past history to taint your views of the possibilities of things that could happen in the future, what might things look like?
I think this should be a question for H to consider. You see it is only now that I look upon some of our past and see faults in it--I wasn't the one who was unhappy in the M (in hindsight, I wasn't overjoyed--but accepting that there are ups and downs). I think if there wasn't any history to consider there wouldn't be the mothering, co-dependance behavior that seems to be part of the root of our problems--there would be no mother in this M, just equal partners enjoying a mutually satisfying M.
If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?
I know he's not trying to hurt me and he has said it over and over again that he never meant to hurt me. I honestly believe he's in a cross of MLC and addictive behavior--but the drug of choice is a 25 yr old OW--given that I don't think he has had control of this starting--I think it just happened and before he could stop himself it was too late--the temptation was already too strong. But I completely believe him that he never meant to hurt me--but the fact that he can acknowledge that fact and not stop hurting me is hard to take--but that is part of the tunnel and the disease!
What areas of your relationship might it be helpful to "take off your blinders", and see things from a different perspective?
In general, for years I seemed to have blinders on that everything was o.k. But H was unhappy for several years. Also, 4 years ago when we hit speed bump #1 (I'm unhappy, we don't have fun together, you don't make me laugh, I'm not attracted to you physically)--we did MC which helped somewhat, except we failed to do our homework after MC was done--and I had gone on to lose 50 pounds which in hindsight I know back then I thought that would solve all the problems--I wasn't fat anymore--so all would be great. I was wearing blinders, not realizing that we continued to grow apart--I could see we weren't together that much,but acknowleged other reasons for it at the time--more blinders...but still felt we had happy M when speed bump #2 happened last August after buying first home and starting to talk about starting family--(H says not happy, no fun, no laugh etc etc)-we both go into sep.C and work on ourselves, no MC-H didn't want, but said R was better, he had his own issues working on with C, but we were ok. Then this year we hit the pothole--same reasons, but now there is OW who fulfills those needs (affection/attention-laughs-fun-sensual)..so again got hit blind-sided...if I had seen the signs I may have been able to get H to MC before the A started--should have insisted on it last year when things were better just to make sure!!
What does that dot that the teacher drew on the blackboard represent to you?!
My eyes are bad-I can't even see the dot!! Seriously-it would represent endless possibilities....
What would your answer be to the "miracle question"? Your answer to how things COULD be, instead of the way that they are?
We COULD have a super M--one where we put each other first, one of equality, laughter and fun times to share. I would love him in his love language and be sure to show him that daily. We would communicate much more clearly when things bothered us so that there would be nothing left unsaid/undone--no resentments to be harbored.
If you were to start things over from scratch, with a clean slate, what would your relationship be like? What would YOU be doing to help lead it into the right direction?
Hmmm..clean slate--well that would be AWESOME!! I would suggest that we go to MC to find tools of how to build a lasting, satisfying relationship-I would make sure H knew that I loved and desired him, I would work on my sexual inhibitions so that I could love him more freely--I would suggest we have weekly dates--always making a special time for "us", while still having time for our individual time/interests. I would support him in his endeavors as I would expect him to do the same for me. It would be wonderful!!!!!
1. Conflict and anger are signs that your relationship is failing.
True, or false? How do you think your partner would answer?
I say false and I think H would say false too--it's how you deal with it that matters and contributes to the possible failure of R
How have you and your partner dealt with conflict and anger in the past? What is the "typical" thing for both of you to do? What do both of you do to either avoid conflict, or to instigate it? When are the times that you've been able to deal with anger and conflict successfully? When has it worked for them, and when has it worked for you? What were you both doing at the time?
i tend to be pretty easy going and usually avoid conflict and anger. But I do know how to push H's buttons and when he gets angry-the best thing to do is to let him have his space, but I tend to continue to want to talk it out, etc etc--which just escalates the situation even further--a few times to the point where he had to leave to cool down before he would say something he didn't mean..(shortly after moving into our house last year we had a blowout about me wanting everything to be done and perfect when we moved in and he was frustrated because he felt he wasn't meeting my expectations and that i wasn't complmenting him on what he had been doing--he called me a selfish b##ch-which he's never used language on me before and then he left--3 hours later, one STAR WARS movie later he was home, we apologized, made love and went to sleep in each others arms) However, overall, we never really got into huge arguments or heated discussions--we used to have the debate often about me mothering him and my reply was often either "well you didn't have much of a mother to begin with" or "if you'd stop acting like a child then I wouldn't need to mother you"--two very awful statements that just fester on-going resentments for him. I know this now and am diligently working on changing that behavior/attitude!!!!
LL, You said, "As I sat there semi-complaining about things I did take a step back and ask out loud if the things that have happend didn't happen (affair and seperation threat of d etc) would I be happy with the way the r is going now and I couldn't answer or maybe was just afraid to answer what if the answer would still be no? is it even possible to put out the past that completely? so then my question I suppose is how to piece after the initial piecing? when the "pressure" seems to be off the was to "win" you back again is gone and things seem to drift back toward that dangerous comfort zone? what to do with a partner who isn't "active" in the piecing proccess." WOW....you took the words right out of my mouth. I've been tormenting myself with the same questions, doubts, & fears. This week, my H is home "testing the waters" to see what it would be like to stay here w/me since we've been getting along so well the past few weeks. It's just a "trial" as we've had a few "sleep overs" the past month or two that have gone well and we've been "dating" regularly and seeing each other quite a bit on my days off (my work schedule is erratic). Well he has stayed over Mon & Tues nite...and it's like sleeping with your 1st cousin....if ya know what I mean. He's restless, he acts as if he'll turn to stone if his foot touches mine etc....I don't know if it's because he's use to sleeping alone after all these months of separation OR if he's unconciously keeping me at a distance even in his sleep. He's "normal" during other times. He is still very skittish if he thinks I'm about to say anything R oriented (which I don't) and it's dawned on me that he hasn't said "I love you" (as he had begun to do) in the past few days....I am DBing and seeing some really positive "baby steps" but, at the same time I'm seeing regression in other areas from him where he is doing more of "his same"....all of which led me back then to withdraw from him. I'm becoming exhausted. I keep asking myself, why am I still working so hard to hold onto a man that thought nothing of destroying me to get his cheap thrills on blueberry hill? I'm tired of doing all the work. I'm tired of having to treat him w/kid gloves. What if in the end I've wasted even more of my life in the hope that he would wake up. Is there no end to thier selfishness? T2
As I'm reading through everyone's answers and comments about their "differences", I'm seeing lots of good examples of the "see-saw effect", where the more one person does of something, the less the other will do. It seems like this is sooo instilled in human nature, and something that happens without us thinking about it, or even being aware of it!
I'm seeing lots of great groundwork being started here for when we get to step 5, and really putting the techniques to practice! Lots of places to do "180's", to "act-as-if", or to "do nothing".
Be sure to keep these things in mind when we get to that point, and when we're laying out goals here in the near future.
Great job, everybody!!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
The Realtionship IQ Quiz: #4 - "In healthy marriages, spouses have the same definition of what it means to be loving
The first part of this question is easy for me....everyone is different. We come into every relationship (even friendships) with our family history, life's experiences etc upon which our "view" of the world has been built so as individuals we all have our own personal agendas and hierachy of needs priorities. To me, loving means putting someone else first OR at least second (since I've NOW learned that you can't truly love someone else if you don't love yourself). Love means taking into consideration how everything you do will affect those who love you and self monitoring those decisions and choices in order to protect the ones you love from suffering as a result of them. In the past, I felt my H's love through some very simple things....he use to call me "Pal"...he's beginning to again. To me that nickname said to me, "I love you, you're my best friend." I treasured that. I feel loved when I feel that he's making ME a priority in his life, that hasn't been the case for many years...but he's coming back to that in small baby steps. Now the tough part of your question..."How do you think your partner would define "loving"? What would it mean to them?" I honestly can't answer that right now, I don't know anymore, I'm trying to figure it out. In the past I THOUGHT that telling him I loved him, maintaining a beautiful home, being a good mother, being a full contributing partner financially, keeping my appearance up, was showing him I loved him. But over the years as I grew resentful of his "privacey"....I withdrew my emotional and eventually my physical attachment to him...until we'd become virtual strangers in our own home. Now everything's changed...so I don't know anymore what he'd "need" to feel loved or to trust that I can love him in the way he needs.
MAYBE some of the ways that he feels loved haven't changed, just possibly some of the circumstances that you're facing have?
I'm not quite sure where to go with this, but it really drew my attention when you said......
But over the years as I grew resentful of his "privacey"....I withdrew my emotional and eventually my physical attachment to him...until we'd become virtual strangers in our own home.
Your resentments over what he was doing, his privacy, lead to you withdrawing, which lead to the two of you becoming strangers.
As I said, I have no specific thoughts right now, just that this might be something to take a closer look at as we work through these steps.
Maybe working backwards, and regaining the emotional and physical intimacy, which might make him less private, which could lead to you being less resentful? Or any of these things in no specific order?
ANYTHING to make a change in the what's happening. Keep an open mind, and we'll see what kind of solutions we can dig up!!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quoting PhoenixNTraining: However, he really likes it when I look at him with eyes shining happily, hanging on every word.
Cool!! You found something that works!!
Who knows, maybe doing enough of this might lead into him talking YOUR love language!!
"Let's get physical, physical. I wanna get physical, physical. Let me hear your body talk...."
(I've always loved Olivia Newton John, especially at the end of "Grease" when she comes out dressed in her leather's! I think that I'm the only person in the western hemisphere with a vinyl album of hers! Sorry, I digress!)
Anyway, great observation, my dear!!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
A few nites after that
I'm trying to see things from his point of view but haven't yet been able to really see it...
I think that I'm the only person in the western hemisphere with a vinyl album of hers! Sorry, I digress!)