Losing, in a curious way, is winning.

[Bridgestone]

Hi everyone.
thanks for the waves purple & cookie, and for checking in with me Tim & Neil.

We have been to communications counseling two times in the past 10 days. We don't go again for another 10 days.

One of the sessions ended up being MC because of some major drama that occured earlier last week. We were trying to use some of the tools for listening & talking given to us for better communication.

I heard him just fine, he heard me just fine. We found out, we don't have the tools to resolve conflicts in a way that is healthy. Compromise is not a win/win, it is a lose/lose.
both parties feel resentful with a compromise, especially if it is a resolution that is implemented and dealt with daily. Both are reminded that this really isn't what you wanted or needed, it's what you could agree to in the moment without a better option.

H learned a bit more from the counselor about his communication style when 'hearing' my feelings. It took the C about 10 minutes to walk him through how to do that in a way that is effective and meaningful. H was in tears for most of it.

He walked out of that session feeling very depressed and hopeless. In fact the better part of the following week was spent with him actively expressing his doubt of being able to do what the C showed him.

I wanted so badly to say, 'well, if you'd get into IC yourself and work on some of your own issues of control, self-esteem, & anger, maybe it would be easier to be compassionate'.

But I didn't I just listened and validated. Encouraged him to try again and reinforced it was ok to make mistakes in learning to apologize and listen in a caring & compassionate way.

FG asked if I wanted him to be the best I could be or see the best I could be. I want him to see my best, but I also want him to strive for his own 'best'. Me leading him to communications counseling seems to only be pointing out to him the things that he is not doing effectively & some of what has undermined this R for years. Now that he is seeing it, it's like he's shutting down, not doing either the negative (or at least less of it), but also not picking up the tools the C gives us to improve communication. uggg...

I can not change him, he makes his own choices.

I can only change me and use what the C has given us/me to be more effective at interacting with him, clearly, compassionately, and caringly.

I have learned that my questioning (the teacher in me again) is not appropriate in many situations with intimate communication. This is contradictory to my nature & to what I have believed about communicating in the past.

I need to work on that a lot. Especially, my 'why' questions.
What is so natural for understanding students & what they know in a classroom, apparently is not appropriate for understanding people in relationships.

That frustrates me a lot and I'm pondering why it is making me so anxious (to the point of tears & upset tummy) to not be able to (or shouldn't be) asking my "why" questions of H??

That's about it for the update... I am headed for DC in 48 hours for a vacation. And am really looking forward to it.

Peace
Bridge

[Coach]

Bridge, Let me take a stab at this. Use your teaching skills here as well - he's not "getting" it so ask/teach another way.

That frustrates me a lot and I'm pondering why it is making me so anxious (to the point of tears & upset tummy) to not be able to (or shouldn't be) asking my "why" questions of H??

He sees you frustrated, he's let you down already. You ask "why" ? That's now threatening to him. He probaly did what he did to please you - now you are frustrated and upset and want to know why. He sees himself as failing you as a husband. The "why" is now viewed as an attack - men get attacked we defend, and we use the coping mechanisms we have and most likely ineffective.
Instead of asking, Why did you do ________? Try - When you do _______ it makes me feel _________.
Does that make sense?

[Distressed67]

He walked out of that session feeling very depressed and hopeless. In fact the better part of the following week was spent with him actively expressing his doubt of being able to do what the C showed him.

I wanted so badly to say, 'well, if you'd get into IC yourself and work on some of your own issues of control, self-esteem, & anger, maybe it would be easier to be compassionate'.

I agree with this statement completely. My anger clouded my judgement and prevented me from seeing that I was playing a huge role in destroying my M. I belived it was all my W fault for not making me happy and she was to blame for my anger and our M problems.

There is not much you can do here. Not saying what was on your mind and validating his feeling of hopelessness was the right thing to do. Unfortunately all of his low self-esteem, depression and lack of compassion are a cause of his anger. It blocks everything out and prevents you from seeing past your own hurt. Once I learned to control it a whole bunch of possibilities opened up to me. I was able to work on other areas of my life not just my M.

We have discuessed this before. I do not know how to help you open his eyes. You would think leaving him would have done it or going to MC would help but he still seems to be in denial. I would just keep going to MC and your IC and working on the deficiencies in your communication with him. Eventually he may come around, hopefully before he really is hopeless.

Did the book help you out at all, did you like it?

Take care and have a great time in DC. I will be there this weekend also visting my brother and tubing down the Potomac.

Tim

[Bridgestone]

He sees you frustrated, he's let you down already.

I'm not frustrated with him, but with the communication guidelines given by the counselor & the program we are working with, that suggests 'why' questions do just what you say.. threatens, asks for defensive posturing & answers, etc.

I need to learn to say something like... "mmm.. I'm a bit confused, can you explain that more?" or "How did you feel/think that?"

What, where, when, how, who questions are good questions that are to be used carefully once the 'talker' is finished with his/her talking & the listener has summarized it correctly. Then if there is still confusion, you can ask, but not 'why'.

Instead of asking, Why did you do ________? Try - When you do _______ it makes me feel _________.
Does that make sense?

Yeah.. it does it's almost word for word what I have been practicing, except saying 'it MAKES me feel____" is also off limits. No one makes you feel anything. There actions can affect your emotions, but it is your choice to 'feel'.

I have been practicing: I feel ______ when you do ______. I need _________. And then stopping and giving him a chance to respond.

However, that doesn't get my questions answered for 'why' he feels as he does .. as he is not consistant with the above statement. So my 'why' questions usually have been a way to 'figure him out' so I knew what to do or not to do in the future to avoid setting off his temper.

That is what is making me very anxious.. how will I know???

I'm feeling very out of sorts with this new tactic, but am hopeful that with practice it will make a difference & reduce my anxiety.

Thanks for the suggestions!
Peace

[Bridgestone]

Hi Tim,
Yes the book helped me see things through his eyes very well. It gave me some ideas for me (similar to what the communication C has done for me as well).

I have thought about giving it to H to read, but think it would be too pushy & too finger pointing. I just wish he would get into IC ... I keep mentioning my own in passing. He was VERY anti-IC when I first started going last year. Then he was all for it, once he started going, then he backed off when he was referred to an anger management specialist .. he only went 3 times. (sigh) I can not control his actions.

I hope you have a good time on the Potomac.. I usually like those types of vacations.. rivers, mountains, camping, but the kiddos need to see our nations capitol and all it has to offer... so off we go!

Peace
Bridge

[Purple]

So my 'why' questions usually have been a way to 'figure him out' so I knew what to do or not to do in the future to avoid setting off his temper.

That is what is making me very anxious.. how will I know???

Hi Bridge, this jumped out at me. When I said to my counsellor that I didn't want h to be upset or angry, my C said something along the lines of..., 'so what if h gets mad? Why should you [suffocate] or [lose who you are] in order to avoid making h angry? If he gets angry, that's HIS issue. YOUR issue is that you focus so much on him that you lose yourself'.

Therefore, what I think of when I read your bit that I quoted above was....why should Bridge check and change what she says/does if it is done to solely avoid making her h angry. Too bad if he gets angry. As long as you are being sensible and healthy and true to yourself - if he gets angry, then he is not accepting you and your actions.

not sure if I've made sense. Counselling was really heavy yesterday. i just want to go home and curl up in bed and sleep.

[Coach]

I have been practicing: I feel ______ when you do ______. I need _________. And then stopping and giving him a chance to respond.

However, that doesn't get my questions answered for 'why' he feels as he does .. as he is not consistant with the above statement. So my 'why' questions usually have been a way to 'figure him out' so I knew what to do or not to do in the future to avoid setting off his temper

Fill in the blanks: I feel loved when you do ______________.
I need ____________________.
I feel ______________ when you get angry. I need ______________.
I feel ______________ when you don't open up to me. I need _________.

I think that is a great communication tool. Tell him how you need to be loved, appreciated and cherished. If you notice most of us DAM are looking for things to do. Make your needs actions he wants to do. I would love for my W to tell me what she needs from me and how she would like it and then let me do it.

[poet]

Hello Bridge,
You don't know me, but I recently read in one of your threads that you go/have gone to communications counseling with/without your H. Can you please go to my thread and tell me a little more about that. I believe I have a very bad communications problem with my H. I would appreciate all the help I can get.

Poet
p.s. I hope I'm not asking too much. If you don't have time, that's ok. BTW, is this called hijacking? I have heard the term, but now I'm starting to wonder?

[Bridgestone]

Hi Coach.. thanks for the suggestions.. I'll write those down too. I struggle with what to tell him I need.

I have not been able to depend on him for so long that trusting him to meet my needs, when they are stated out loud, is taking time for me and dependability for him.

Thanks again for your words of encouragement!
Peace
Bridge

[Bridgestone]

hi Poet.
I am off for the next few days for a vacation.
I'll check in with more when I get back.

Here's a website to help you understand what we are doing.

http://www.couplecommunication.com/

Good luck!
Bridge