Internet infidelity can be a serious problem, and seems to be becoming more of an issue all the time. I have seen quite a few people discuss this within their own threads, without getting a lot of answers.
I wanted to start this thread so we had a place to go to take a closer look at this issue, and see what we might be able to do about it. To share what has, and hasn't worked for those of us dealing with this issue.
Michele begins talking about this on page 219 of DR.
So, who wants to go first?!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Great idea! My W is is having an EA with a co-worker in Australia. It goes beyond internet as they frequetly talk on the phone. I've had crazy ideas about sending him an email through a email remailer so as to hide the originating location and address it from someone in his company telling him that the human resources department has his number and will come down on him hard if he doesn't stop. Crazy, I know but I also feel with all of my soul that if the OM was out of the picture my W would come running back.
I've also concidered sending my W an email the same way making it look like it was a mistake by the OM. Something that would indicate to her that he was just playing her for a fool.
Unfortunatly, it would be for the wrong reasons. Just thought I get this going. Now I know you all think I'm a psycho but it's hard to deal with when you feel this desperate.
Yup, this internet stuff is a big problem. Just read an issue of Washingtonian magazine (December 2002, I believe) that discusses this.
My W was/is a stay at home mom, homeschooling our 3 boys. I think that she found the internet a place to talk to someone during the day that was her age. And that led to more intimate talk. I believe that it is inevitable that a person will find someone on the net that strikes a chord....because so much of it is unreal. No personal contact. Just putting one's best front, hiding the bad side. But the bond is real. And the addiction too.
This article says that 1 in ten married folks carry on an intimate relationship with someone on the internet. Just think what that does to the M.....
I think that these net relations show the flaws in our R. But they do little to try to fix them. The virtual R seems so good that there is little hope to compete. Even after my W toned down the virtual R, the damage was done. She saw me in a different light that she does not like.
jamesjohn, definitely a good topic to start, i'm interested in seeing what people have to say.
the internet provides us with quite the conundrum, as it's like a continual first date.
you know, on a first date, you brush your teeth twice, chew with your mouth closed, ask interesting questions and provide provacatively interesting answers to questions you're asked...
you are as perfect as you can be, and so are the people you talk to, especially if you (and they) are lonely.
i remember thinking, before I embarked on my own little internet voyage, how SAD it was for people to be tied to their monitors, looking for a connection in this immensely lonely world...
and yes, how sad indeed.
one night 2 1/2 years ago, going to bed, totally depressed with my sitch. my H had been drinking a lot for a lot of years and Al Anon wasn't really making me feel any better. i tried, i really did, to grasp the concept of "detaching with love", but the fights H started over nothing, and the continuous accusations "YOU COULDN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND ME!", followed by going to sleep on the living room floor ~ it was too much. So, I prayed... I prayed and prayed, "Lord, please give me the knowledge of your will for me and the power to carry that out." I prayed long and hard into the night.
I feel asleep and had an intense dream. I woke up the next day and when I got to work, went looking for information on the content of my dream... ON LINE. I found a message board. So, I'm thinking this is God's will, right?
The story's really long, I could type all day.
But, here I am. X-internet-OM, M devastated on both sides not because of the internet, but because it was just much easier to talk to ppl online than it was to talk to my H. People who had brushed their teeth twice...
So, here I am. Still on-line, but on the DB website.
I don't know where I'm going with this, but. The internet is a dangerous combination of reality and fantasy. I mean, the xeom IS real, right? A person with feelings and all that? And I am real, right? I get my feelings hurt and all that?
Sometimes I feel like my head is in a can. Sometimes I feel incapable of dealing with the real world out here because I'm so interested in hearing what the people with super clean teeth have to say.
It's a conundrum...
And with that, I think I'll log off for the day
(and now that i've double-checked what i've written and added the appropriate emoticon here and there... i shall hit "continue".... good day ppl)
Just read MAState's thread....her H is involved in pornography. My W was not (guess it is more of a guy thing). Yet, it seems to me that a woman can attract a man by two means: her looks, and her flattery. The internet lets both loose with tremendous power. More so than we as a society can handle.
I trusted my W so much, even when I knew she was casually talking to folks in the e-group. But the tempation was too much for her. As it is for so many. There is little time limitation for contact that once kept infatuation at bay. This is really letting our adult population run free in the candy shop....and the results are pouring in....
Again, our technology outpaces our capacity to cope.
Here's some wierd, rambling thoughts I'm having as I'm reading through here, so please bear with me!
These thoughts aren't so much to "diagnose" the reasons why these internet situations happen, or to lay blame in ANY direction, but lean more towards getting some ideas about what could be done differently to help curb the beast.
I wonder what kind of role any "intimacy issues" play? If there is a fear of intimacy deep within a person, is it easier to bear your soul to a faceless stranger? (Is that sometimes what we do here?) Do they feel safer, and less exposed to judgement, revealing themselves to someone they don't know? Have they ever tried to reveal themselves this way to their spouse before, or have they been afraid? If they have tried, and been rejected, are they afraid to try again?
How about the fantasy issue? Probably a lot of these situations start out with a person playing out some kind of fantasy, and gets carried away? Do the people that fall trap to internet relationships feel that they can't play the fantasy game with their spouse? Have they ever tried? Do they maybe feel trapped in their role of spouse/parent/provider, etc., and are looking for an escape? If so, have THEY placed themselves in that role, or might they feel that their partner has?
you know, on a first date, you brush your teeth twice, chew with your mouth closed, ask interesting questions and provide provacatively interesting answers to questions you're asked...
I LOVE this analogy! So true!
That's all for now, more later. Gotta run, and go brush my teeth again!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
The most insidious aspect of the internet use is that it is anonymous, the person involved is often embarrassed by their behavior (especially if pornography is involved) and it becomes so hidden that by the time the partner finds out, the damage to the relationship has been done. No real person can ever compete with a fantasy who is "perfect" and so the real relationship begins to fall apart without giving the partner any opportunity to rectify anything that is wrong. My H and I had what appeared on the surface to be a warm, loving, sexual relationship. We went to dinners together, went on wonderful vacations as a family, went away on weekends as a couple for our anniversary and other occasions and always said "I love you". I accidently found out that he was going to the "adult friendfinder" site, became upset and confronted him. He swore it was just a fantasy, he loved me and it would stop. Two months later I found directions to a women's house. Again, he said he loved me, he was under stress, he never followed through with it and that he was highly embarrassed by his behavior. There were suspicous cell phone calls and other "red flags" but I tried to have trust in him and brush them aside. Then I found temporary internet files on the computer hard drive and realized the internet stuff hadn't stopped. I broke into his hotmail account by changing the password and was appalled at what I saw. There were dozens of emails with a sexual content going back two years. He talked about being in a "passionless" marriage and how he had been "celibate" for four years. Complete lies. From the content of the emails, it was obvious he crossed the line into phone conversations and again I confronted him. He became very defensive and said everything was my fault and that he is very frustrated with me. But why keep me in the dark for two years when I repeatedly asked him if he was only staying with me out of obligation? He constantly reassured me that he loved me. Then I got the phone call from a woman who had an affair with my H after they met through the internet. My H says he hated the person he had become, he broke off the relationship and therefore, she became vindictive. She claims she broke it off because she realized my husband needed help. She moved her whole family (she is married as well) to our hometown from out of state to be near my husband. They sent each other love letters (she sent them to me) before they ever met. This woman told me she was annoyed because my husband described himself as having an "athletic build" and she said she was shocked when she met him and told him to lose weight. What do people on the internet expect? Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny too? Ironically, my husband's being slightly overweight has never bothered me. Now my husband and I are both in individual counseling and later, we plan to go to couples counseling. I do love him and want the relationship to work for ourselves and for our two children (ages 15 and 10) but how can I ever learn to trust again? How do I tell the lies from the truth? As soon as this fantasy internet thing ended, it is as if our relationship ended as well. He no longer tells me he loves me and is very aloof. Now he says he needs to go to counseling to find out where he is going and find out what is the "right thing to do". He thinks I only want to stay in our marriage for the "security". Now he says he hasn't been happy in our marriage for ten years-ten years!? Why didn't anyone give me a clue? Is this typical? Does the real relationship go "poof" as soon as the fantasy one ends? I am so confused. Now I feel as if I was the one having the fantasy relationship all along.
My W is involved in a PA with a guy 500 miles away. She denies it is physical but knowing she has booked a flight to he BF town... Anyway, W met him online after our problems started. Ihave since found that the problem is the result of our 14 month old son. I became a very serious person when he was conceived. I have since realized this. My W discovered the internet in Jan. She met her BF by just looking up profiles. I do not know when but the affair turned to phone calls then to actually her making a trip (or 2) to Chicago. this is about halfway. She has denied PA, but has told me they talk. That is an understatement she has gone through at least 1000 minutes of phone cards. I know the relationship has become a PA. As I said above she has booked a flight to visit him in a couple of weeks. Even though she has BF, she still prowls the internet chat rooms and instant messaging. She has become addicted. I have witnessed her online not 15 minutes after coming home. I am not at home but our S is. I know the affair will not last but her addictiion may affect our son. I have to find a way to get her to counselling. She refuses. I cannot compete with her BF or the internet. I am a loving husband who has made mistakes, her BF's are perfect. I cannot and should not have to compete. I can only be there for her when the fog clears.
I am finding internet addiction horrible to deal with and my husband and I are at an impasse. Last December, I confronted my husband with evidence of his obsessive interest in cybersex, moved my money to a separate account and consulted an attorney. Initially, it had the desired effect by waking him up to what a serious threat this was to our marriage and he agreed to go for counseling. Shortly after, he said he wanted to "come clean" and ended a physical affair that started out as an online relationship. To make a long story short, the OW got angry that my husband ended the affair, called me and told me horrible things which devastated me even more. It was at this point that my husband admitted he is sick and I believe he finally realized how much he hurt me and the children. (They know something horrible happened but don't know what it is and I think this is a source of anxiety for them).
Well, my husband and I have both been in therapy since April (I started in January). We are outwardly friendly to each other and even do things together as a family. But nothing I do seems to work. I intially told him I loved him and wanted to make our marriage work. He said he didn't know what he wanted and only wanted to do the "right thing" which didn't include saving our marriage. So I tried doing a 180. I am now doing my own thing, going out with friends, doing things with the children, and I'm actually enjoying myself.
But my heart is broken because, ever since the affair with the OW ended, my husband can't bring himself to say he loves me, even if I tell him that I love him (I stopped saying ILU after getting no response). We sleep in the same bed but no longer make love. I have tried to reach out to him but he ignores me. I know the cybersex has continued because he now takes the laptop into the bathroom and complains of stomach problems for being in there constantly. I act concerned and tell him he should see a doctor because he never had this many stomach problems before-(just to let him know that I have noticed this is out of the ordinary).
I have been told that therapy for a sex addict is a waste of time if they continue to conceal their problem which is something most of them do. I had confronted my husband about the cybersex on two other occasions prior to December and each time he told me how sorry he was, how much he loved me and how it would stop. He only concealed it better and lied and lied to cover up. He later told me that he lied because he was embarrassed and ashamed of what he was doing and the person he had become.
I really give credit to the people who stick it out for years in troubled relationships. I am not that strong. This is tearing me apart and will make it impossible for me to function. I am giving it until September to see if there is some improvement then I think it is time to throw in the towel. I really believe this is a true addiction because these people are often slapped in the face with the consequences of their actions. They risk losing their jobs and their families and still can't stop. My husband also told me that all of the people on line were just as "fat and ugly" as he is. He isn't fat and ugly and I have told him so but that is how he sees himself. The internet is a place where a person with low self esteem can be anyone different from who they are.
If anyone has any other ideas on what to do, I would really appreciate it. Nothing I do seems to work and we are only growing farther and farther apart.
If there is really an internet, cybersex, or sexual addiction going on, ignoring it is the worst possible thing. It's like supplying heroin to a addict heroin or giving alcohol to an alcoholic. It allows them to delude themselves into thinking that everything is okay as long as no none finds out. The sickness thrives on secrecy and only escalates. If infidelity is involved, they would rather expose the unsuspecting spouse to STDs and AIDS than be honest with their partner. Also the behavior could get dangerous if a spouse finds out about the infidelity and becomes vindictive. The sex addict is exposing his/her family to danger.
I'll tell you what I am dealing with now. The psycho OW now claims my husband has been pursuing her all the while we have been going for individual therapy. My husband wants to start couples therapy and claims that she keeps e-mailing him. He claims she keeps pestering him about one last meeting and a "hug" before they part. I told him he was full of crap and if he wants to make this work he has to avoid all contact with her and that means no answering e-mails. Also, he has to start by being honest which he has never been. It's only when I shove the evidence in his face that he owns up to it. The OW just sent me another e-mail that her husband is threatening to come to our house to straighten things out and it won't be "pleasant." In her previous e-mail she said he was divorcing her so why should he care about what anyone does at this point. Also, I brought my daughter home from school yesterday and my neighbor informed me that she called the police because someone was snooping around our house. Is this related to the OW or her husband? Which pathological lier do I believe, my husband or the OW? When do I call the police?
I have been married 20 years and we have two wonderful children that I love very much. I thought I loved my husband but this is a sickness and I won't make myself or my children vulnerable to his problems. Do people ever recover from sexual addictions? Do they fall off the wagon? Help! Lisa
How in the world did I ever miss this thread? Must be because I hang out too much in Surviving the Big D and MLC forums.
A major component of internet addictions/EA/porn, etc. is the fact (as pointed out by Xeno who has a discussion of this going with me and Sad_in_PA), is that it can be carried out with little or no detection.
In my case... sadly, it got "uncovered" after a long time. I have no clue how long it had been going on. I found cache files on our home PC, then it was the H (now ex) coming home with laptops... and I thought the hardware, laptops, etc. were normal for him... he is a technical guru supporting network, web implementation/servers, that sort of thing. For a long time, he was able to excuse it off as "work."
Well... I could believe that. I work in a similar realm. I was in a previous life a technical support person and knew what that was all about. And I make my living off of computers and the internet as a technical writer/researcher with the firm I work for publishing mapping data.
So... it can be very easy to disguise and hide this problem.
And as was pointed out, it leads down a dangerous path. From the history I can reconstruct, my ex hooked up with his OW through adultfriendfinders or some similar site. Then, it lead to more than swapping porn and suggestive emails, it led to personal meets, promiscuity, threesomes/couple swaps... you name it.
I had a hard time believing there was such a thing as a sex addiction or internet addiction. I always thought you could be addicted to substances... booze, pills... but behavior? But, the more I read, the more I learned. The more I yap on this board and elsewhere, the more I learn.
I'm sorry to see that the subject is so lightly handled as "EAs" within DR/DB. It is a complicated problem... and if it remains at the "EA" stage, I'm sure it would be much easier to overcome. But the secrecy and ability to hide the problem makes it so difficult to combat. As pointed out to me, it is a problem that isn't discussed and is hushed up (as I've noted in my situation as well). The problem really hasn't come to light until recently as well.
Normal DB techniques do NOT work with addicts from what I can tell. At advanced stages of an addiction or if the behavior is ongoing... we become blindsided because often times the spouse will learn to slowly adapt to these new behaviors. I certainly did... I honesty had myself convinced the ex was "working" for a long time.
I had to divest myself of a sham of an M because it was way too hard to deal with my ex where he was emotionally and mentally. He became cruel if faced with the loss of his OW (she supports him in this behavior... is still married but shacked up with my ex)... he walked away from him home and family for this...he went into financial disasters for this... and he was rewarded in a way for bad behavior by having an OW "there" for him. Facing me and the kids would only reinforce to him a "loss" of a "lifestyle" that was too enticing.
That being said... as having gone through this and still trying straighten my head out from all of this... I have more questions than answers... this type of infidelity has a strong addictive component and it certainly shatters trust in a way that no other marriage problem can. I hope this discussion becomes a bit more active here... And am I any better by hanging out on the DB bulletin board at midnight?
Hi, I don't know if anyone is still checking this thread, but I'd like to post my situation/story and see what people have to say.
My wife had an internet e-mailing type affair with a person she "met" on a message board for a singer. They started out innocently, but then it became more and more frequent e-mails. I wasn't aware of it, just how much time she spent on the computer. It wasn't just me being ignored, it was her kids too. I nagged her...bad move. I appealed to her sense to spend less time on the internet. I told her about how internet affairs can happen if she spent too much time online and I was worried that would happen. She said she knew it was a problem, she loved me too, and she wasn't a cheater. Turned out she had at least given her heart away to this person. I got an accidental copy of an e-mail she sent this person and it had all this "I'll love you forever" mush, etc. The kicker was the person had a girls e-mail name. My wife believed it was a man (she wanted it to be) because she isn't a lesbian or bi. When I found out I told her to break it off. She did for about a week. During that time she was depressed and moody and told me she didn't love me like she used to and she wanted to separate. Things improved somewhat, but I found out after buying the e-blaster that her happiness was due to continuing to e-mail this person. She couldn't wait to move out so she could talk on the phone to her.
I did e-mail the person. She was a woman (I have since heard her voice on the phone...she's a woman). I told this person she/he was welcome to my wife. I didn't know the kind of person who would toss their marriage away and risk their kids happiness for the sake of someone they never met. I gave the person our home phone number and said call...talk to each other in person, meet. See if you have something in common once you meet in person.
The OW said she was done with this. It was a fantasy. She was straight and would leave my W alone. She has too. My wife is once again in depression and pursuing this person. I've seen the notes, etc. She's called her and left a message. So the obscession is so strong that she just wants to continue what they had, even if nothing comes out of it. Or maybe she isn't considering if she can be a lesbian for this online love. In any regard, she doesn't feel she loves me anymore. She still uses the internet and the musicians website. It seems almost as though she's "trolling" for another potential fish to fill her emotional needs. I can't do it because she rejects me.
She's moving out now. I hope she learns to control this compulsion. She doesn't think she has a problem though. It's just that she hates being with me. Or so she says.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
