Last night I decided I had had enough with this hostility.
I picked up my S's last evening. W and I have both been standoffish with each other, saying very little.
On the drive back to my apartment, S7 started speaking spontaneously about his mother, speculating about her future plans, about "moving away" and, again, about having an older brother. I kept telling S7 that it was best we not discuss these things, but tried to get him to talk about something else. We kept coming back to his mother.
I managed to get my sons off to sleep and then re-read MIL's nasty-gram. I then decided I was going to call W. This was totally a backslide as far as DB'ing goes, as this was an R talk that I initiated.
I told W that I wanted to talk to her about this letter her mother sent, the sentiments to which she had concurred. I confirmed with W that this was indeed what her thoughts regarding me were. Again, she said she wasn't as strident about these enough to have worded it as vehemently as her mom, but she agreed with everything said.
I then told her I wanted to appeal with what is left of the woman I thought I married, and to tell her that the attitude that I am getting in this email is very disturbing, and it represents an environment to which my S's are being exposed that is not healthy for them or their R with their father.
W claimed, again, that she never says anything to our S's that would detract from me or my R with our S's.
I told her it was not what was said but the attitude that I was most concerned with. I told her "Actions speak louder than words, as you like to keep telling me." Besides, even if one could trust W to show some discretion, there was no way she could vouch for her mother. MIL's letter bespoke of a hostility towards me that is unfounded and not in her place to levy against me, not while she's living under my roof and not while she is being placed in a child-rearing role over our S's.
W denied any untoward behavior from her mother, that she was far better than daycare (I disagree) and that W has made it perfectly clear to her mother that there would never be anything said to our S's that would harm their relationship with their father.
W said that neither she nor MIL would ever expose S7 and S3 to "adult matters". She then tried to turn the argument back on me, with accusations that I was the one who was continuing to talk to S7 about "adult matters". I denied that -- family matters are not necessarily "adult matters", just because it might make W uncomfortable. I said that S7 was continuing to speak to me spontaneously about things that could only have come from her (or MIL), and the tip of the iceberg I see is alarming.
W continues to deny that she has any plans, that I am totally wrong, and that I cannot predict the future or how things will turn out. Every time she has said this, I know this to be mere supplication, an attempt to lower my suspicions to buy her time -- time for what? for her to carry out her plans that she says she doesn't have. She then took my pause to consider her words as (correctly) my disbelief, "But you don't believe me, ... and you never will."
No, I don't believe her, not this alien, not anymore. I always have given her the full benefit of a doubt all these years, and where has that gotten me now? I told her I am observing her tone, her attitude and her actions.
She started to tell me how she thought it was going to go down, that we would get the Separation Agreement and then in six months complete this process.
I got W to spell this out, "completing the process", and at last she said the D word. I told her she was being evasive, as if she didn't want to actually say what her objective really is. W said, "I just thought you didn't need to have me say it; that you know where this leads."
I told W that she needed to say it. I then said, "I still don't like D; I don't believe in it. But I won't fight it -- not that there is anything I could do even if I wanted."
W then seemed a slightly surprised, but only a little. She responded something along the lines of satisfaction.
I then spoke out of hurt, "And you call me 'cold and unfeeling'."
W: "I'm just done."
Me:"You're just stuck."
Like mother, like daughter.
This conversation contained a lot more than this, but this post is already too long and so I will wrap it up. The convo. included having her admit she's planning on leaving this town and relocating away from the metro area, and was investigating other school systems for our S's -- to which I reminded her that moving our S's was nother decision alone. She's got plans and machinations in mind, alright, she just isn't being very open about them.
All-in-all, I tried to set some boundaries with W. I basically told W that I expect her and MIL to show a bit more discretion in how they act around my S's. And she continues to blame me for everything. She is going to continue to say one thing, but disrespect me and do another. I have at least stated my case.
Wrote a response to MIL. I am pondering whether to send it.
I realize that you have been through quite a bit in the last weeks with regards to <uncle> and <aunt>, so I can let quite a bit of what you have said go. (I too have lost an uncle this past week.)
But seeing how this is also the same sentiments that I have been getting from W to one degree or another in the last year, I am sensing your own personal demons are to blame for much of the toxic environment that has plagued my family in the last year. I suggest you re-read and reconsider what you have written and really take an inward look.
I know my faults, my weaknesses. I know the mistakes I've made. I know what a marriage is and is not -- unfortunately only more-so now than six months ago.
And I know where you are coming from, all too well. I have been as patient and understanding of your troubles and foibles as any person can be. I have pitied the pain you've endured in your life, even when you have contributed to it. But no injury you suffer ever justifies your own trespasses against another. When you bring your prejudices and bitterness into my home and foment your self-fulfilling predictions for your own selfish reasons, that is where you cross the line. You demonstrate a failure to understand and learn from your own mistakes, especially with regards to marriage. You show a glaring lack of understanding of, or an arrogant unwillingness to acknowledge, what a marriage is, beyond your own self-serving, jaded misconceptions. One would think you would have gained enough experience to figure that out by now.
You have every right to say and think what you want in your own station, but you have no legal or moral right to do so in our household.
Bottom line: You have interfered with my marriage, my family and our chances at reconciliation.
Instead, I will turn this back around on you, and ask you to cease and desist from interfering with my family, my wife and my children. You have proven you cannot offer wise or even neutral counsel to anyone in my family, and that your own bitterness and unhappiness has both contributed to and enabled reckless and dangerous behaviors by my wife.
In your own words, "it is best to separate and save the children from the angry words, actions and hate." I suggest you recuse yourself for the peace of my children, my family.
First and foremost, I believe in communication. I totally disagree with any assertion that silence between spouses is better than talking. So you spoke up to the wife. What's she going to do, divorce you? she's doing that anyway. Good. State your case, be a man. Sounds like you were fair and logical in the discussion. I think you did a great job with it. Keep it up. Stand your ground. Don't let her walk all over you. It won't make her like you better. Silence won't make her turn around and say she loves you. Silence will only convince her that she can do what she wants, you are afraid to object.
As for MIL. I'd like to see your response be more specific about where she has crossed boundaries. You talk about her toxic attitude. i have no doubt this is something she is quite proud of. So simply naming it, won't make her see what is wrong with it. I think you have to show her specifically what it is she is doing and how it affects the boys.
hey nocode, I am glad you called W and talked to her about things. Of course, they never tell us the truth or their plans. Its amazing she thinks a D will allow her to just up and move the kids.
Have you sent that letter yet? What about what sara said, more examples, more reasons why you believe she is harming your family.
Yes, I did think some on Sara's suggestions -- I actually had a longer draft before this one, and thought it too long and maybe a little too heavy-handed. But Sara got me to thinking that if I don't risk really shaking things up with MIL and W, our road to D is going to happen regardless -- nothing ventured nothing gained.
So I have added the following:
... We are all imperfect and make mistakes; there is no sin in making honest mistakes, unless we fail to truly learn from them. You demonstrate a failure to understand and learn from your own mistakes, especially with regards to marriage. You show a glaring lack of understanding of, or an arrogant unwillingness to acknowledge, what a marriage is, beyond your own self-serving, jaded misconceptions. One would think you would have gained enough experience to figure that out by now. And yet you presume to have the wisdom to be able to judge other people and their relationships?
...
I have heard your words about marriage and about divorce. I have heard for myself your cynicism and contempt for matrimony, and how you try to justify divorce as a positive solution in any marriage. You are not friendly to marriage by any stretch, and are certainly no friend to my marriage to your daughter. I have allowed you into our household not once but twice now. And you have betrayed my good faith and undermined my authority in my own household. You have acted not only as W's spy, revealing to her details of my time with my sons in her absence, but you went further and bore false testimony. No, it was not enough to just report the facts to my wayward wife, but you had to make stuff up as well (and to take credit for things I did around the house).
Your character assassination of me is beyond the pale.
And more and more you've let your opinion be known how you feel about your daughter's marriage to me. In fact, I have my sources and I do know how you have been talking behind my back to the relations on W's side even before I knew what was going down back in June. You have salted the earth and poisoned the well for my ability to recover my relationship with our family long before I recognized your treachery.
I have also heard your condescending attitude about men in general, and husbands in particular. You want to believe that all men are alike and are out to hurt women, that they're stupid, helpless, and only good for being a woman's hand servant. You talk about "partnerships" in marriage, but that's not what you really expect. You've got some serious problems, lady, and it alarms me that my myopic, self-centered wife thinks you are competent enough for raising two small boys. I am seriously worried about what long term effects their being constantly exposed to your biases and prejudices is going to have on them.
Case in point: You have time and again gotten into petty little arguments with S7, a 7-year old little boy. You have frequently gotten your nose out of joint arguing with a child about silly, pointless stuff -- as if you yourself were but an immature, petulant little child. W herself complained bitterly about it at one time, but apparently has since turned a blind eye towards it, all because you now excuse and cheerlead her own peccadilloes. Well, I saw another example of this just the other day, yet again, and it's still happening, sad to say.
As for cheerleading your daughter's sins, I know you've blessed and encouraged her to leave me and even to take up with this other man. That's called adultery and you have blessed it. She's still married to me, for God's sake!
I know it must give you great satisfaction to have your formerly conscientious, God-fearing daughter turn astray and follow you down your same path of heartache and oblivion. Misery loves company? I guess you must think it vindicates you and the poor choices you've made in life that your daughter can be just as flawed as yourself, and that she can no longer hold that over your head. You just don't learn from your mistakes, do you? No, you embrace them, arrogantly display them, and blame every one else for what went wrong. Now you're coaching your daughter into the same hopelessly weak and unrepentant mindset.
You have covered for W when she's been painfully wayward, and then had the absolute gall to tell me -- when I rightfully got upset with your helping to cover her betrayal -- that I had "a bad attitude." That is priceless -- just how do you expect a spouse is supposed to take his partner's misbehavior and betrayal?!! Furthermore, how is any rational, moral being supposed to take someone who should be a loving and responsible mother condone and encourage their daughter's sins against her own family. You couldn't even manage to stay neutral, for crying out loud. ...
How do you think she will take this letter? Will she show it to W? Do you care if she sees it? Its definately accusing her of many things, but the things ring true. MIL sounds like a bitter woman, is she an unhappy person in general?
Yes, MIL will undoubtedly tell W, and how! MIL will blow a gasket and step up her pace to have me ousted for good.
MIL has tried to pass herself off in the last year or so as being a "happy" person -- it's all show. W now tries to cover for MIL too in that regard, by trying to convince me that MIL is doing a good job raising our S's while she goes off to do whatever.
I had a very informative discussion with MIL the week before I moved out. I let her do all the talking -- giving her all the rope she needed to hang herself. She smugly tried to lecture me about marriage and what I had done so horribly wrong to screw everything up. She excused her daughter's feelings and tried to calmly tell me that I should accept her decisions. MIL gave me her spiel about how she thinks a marriage should be, and how a husband should be willing to come home after a hard day's of work and relieve the wife of any household duties, out of "love and kindness." She thinks a husband should bow and scrape and do anything it takes to show his wife how much he loves her. I kid you not.
The whole time I'm listening to MIL fully lay out her warped sense of marital bliss, I am thinking that this woman is off her rocker. I bit my tongue so hard that I might allow her to continue this blather to completion. Afterwards, I knew where I stood in her eyes -- and that MIL was (is) an accessory to the crime against my family.
You need to step back from this. That letter is from start to finish a rant and a condemnation of her. It will not reflect well on you in other people's eyes. You do not want that passed around the family table or shown to the judge. You want to take the high road and show that you have been a good person and trying to good all along, while she has misjudged you. That's all. Stay away from condemnation. It will not win you friends or influence people!
I would be happy to help you write a letter. Send the original from her to me at: purpleheiz at aol.com. I'll send you back something like what I think you might say.
