I just wanted to pop on quick and tell you how sorry I am. She obviously doesn't see the hurt that she is inflicting on your boys, and is truly selfish.
What she is doing is just so very wrong. My thoughts are with you.
I hope you find some comfort in your boys love.
Merry christmas.
(((hugs)))
tal
me: 37 H: 44 Married for 18 years this june S7 S3 porn issues, and much more... since 7/06
Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.
Thanks, Tal, Andy, everyone. I really appreciate everyone here, and I wish we could all meet, have a DB'er jamboree.
Christmas Eve was pretty good with my S's. The boys and I went to a mid-afternoon Christmas service for children at our church. Both S6 and S3 were sort of bored and fidgety compared to previous times. But then I noticed a lot of the other children in the congregation were very much the same way for some reason.
Last night, after I dropped the boys off at the house, I went back to my apartment. I tried to work out in the gym, do some laundry and cleaning, and then showered and got ready to leave out. W had left a voicemail that she had left the garage door open as planned, and that she would be up very late doing Nursing paperwork.
So about 10 PM I headed back to the house with the car loaded with a bicycle and other gifts. I tried to phone ahead several times to let the W know I was on my way, and to let her know I had not labeled the gifts I had already gift-wrapped, so it would be hard to know which gift was for who. But I never got a hold of W.
I dropped the gifts off in the garage, checking to see if she left the door into the house itself was unlocked -- it was locked alright. I have a key, but decided that the sound of the door being unlocked would set our dog off. I didn't need or want to do that, as it might wake the whole household.
I drove away with my heart in my throat, and gave one last try on the mobile phone as I got to the end of our street. Nothing. Oh, well, let W try to figure it out on her own. I then decided to put it out of my mind and continue on to the 11 PM Christmas Communion service back at our church.
I can't tell you how comforting the Christmas service was -- it was packed, surprisingly. It was very heart-warming, even though part of me was still wishing my bride had been with me.
When the service was over, I noted that W had left another voicemail while I had been in the service. She had gotten my earlier message and was indeed a little confused as to which present belonged to who. It was now after midnight, Christmas Morning, but I took a chance that she was still up doing her paperwork, since her message was left only about a half hour earlier. I called her, but apparently she had fallen asleep and I woke her. Still, she thanked me for calling back and for then giving her a description of the presents so she could identify the intended recipients for each. She had tried to stay awake to get her paperwork out of the way, but she was too sleepy -- and she knew our sons, being early risers, would be up before the crack of dawn, especially on Christmas Day.
I then told W I'd let her go back to sleep, and then she replied, "Okay, good night. I'll see you tomorrow."
Absent-mindedly, I replied the same, "Good Night. See you tomorrow." And then we hung up -- and only in that instant did it strike me, tomorrow! W had actually indicated that I was expected to be there in the morning. Up until those last words, she had made no indication whatsoever that I was in any way welcome to show up on Christmas. But her words just then were the first real indication she was not intending to shut me out entirely.
Shocked/relieved I started to call W right back to ask, "Really? What time?" But I decided it made no sense to wake her again.
I got up at 7 AM. W left a message around 7:20 AM, saying that our S's were, miraculously, still asleep, but that I could come over as soon as I was able -- but she would videotape the present opening if they got started before I arrived in any event. Again, confirmation of a small Christmas miracle.
So I got to spend a few hours this morning with my S's. And while they did wake up and opened their gifts in short haste right before I got there, the two of them were thrilled to be able to show me what all they had received. It was very wonderful, and I was very thankful to be able to share a little time with them. MIL fixed a light breakfast which I shared in. And MIL and W even thanked me for the gifts that the boys had gotten for them.
But some time before noon, it became evident that I was beginning to overstay my welcome. My W apologized that neither her or MIL had planned to prepare a Christmas dinner for lunch -- MIL's ham was intended for this evening. So I got the hint and made my exit. I guess I was there for nearly four hours, which is not bad considering I was prepared for nothing at all.
I know the whole point of me being there this morning was purely for the sake of my S's. I have no illusions about that. But I will take what I can get, and I am so thankful that the Lord made it possible for me to have a little time today with what is left of my family.
To everyone here, I hope that your Christmas was indeed merry and may your holidays bright.
I was thinking of you this morning. Thinking how every parent should be with their kids on Christmas. I know that isn't possible in reality, but I too, am grateful you were able to see your boys. And I am happy that your W realized how important it was to you and them.
Unfortunately, I just had my heart ripped right out once again.
After calling my W's cellphone to wish our S's a good night, W began talking about today from her perspective. This was a very disturbing R talk. My W said many things to me that I found deeply hurtful (to put it mildly). She said my presence today in our house was very painful for her, "like finger nails on a chalkboard." While she perceived that I didn't care how I affected her (I was oblivious to this) and enjoyed myself with my sons, she was suffering in my presence.
She said she took a Zanax (sp?) to help with her anxiety. She said she feels the same way whenever she is around me and feels the same way in church. She said for that reason she cannot go to church at the same time I am there, and that we should arrange to not be in our church at the same time -- or else she should find another church to go to.
At points during this convo she began to sob.
I am in silent alarm for most of this. I am feeling anguish, anger, grief and sorrow, and shock and disbelief, even horror. All I can reply at times is, "I am so very sorry you feel this way." To which she would refrain, "I am sorry -- this is why we will never be together again. It's too painful." And then she would sob more.
I also told W that I never had any intention to make her feel this way, and apologized that I seemed so horrible a person in her eyes. W said she was sorry she felt this way, that she's felt this way for most of our time together. (whatever.) I replied, at one point, maybe she thought it would have been better for her if I had died in the car accident I was involved in in 2006. W said that our S's need their father. I told W that she did not sound so sure of that.
I asked W what would ease this "anxiety" she has with me. W insisted that she needs us to separate our finances and sign the Separation Agreement (SA) so she can relax, find some peace, because she just cannot trust me. She cannot trust me. I got her to elaborate, and she says that she hears S6 frequently talk about Tennessee and how I want to move there (I had only considered it at one time this past summer.) She says she keeps thinking I am going to run off to another state with our S's, and she cannot bear the thought of me taking them away from her.
She has mentioned this fear a couple of times in the past, and it just astounds me. How do you affirm your WAS' feelings in the DB way when their feelings are so outrageous and hurtful? One cannot rationalize with this insane talk, nor can one affirm it in any way, and yet it begs for a response. I told her that I was not the one to whom trustworthiness is at a lack, and that my word was my bond. I stand by my obligations, so in that her fears were without basis (yes, this is anti-DB, but what else can I say?) I also said that I know that removing my S's from their mother would only harm them more than her, and would thus hurt myself. I told W that I hoped she knew that and felt the same herself (she said she did.) Even if I wanted to harm W, taking our S's from her would be foolish -- that would be parental kidnapping.
And then W started crying about how if I loved my S's then I would have been there early enough this morning to see their gift opening this morning, but I didn't.
My jaw fell in my lap and I was exasperated beyond words. She complained that I could have been there in time this morning, but she figured I was too tired from being at the church until the wee hours of the morning. She said I might as well not even have shown up at all this morning if I was going to be late. But it just showed that I had not changed at all.
I managed to reply that I had no idea I was even welcome to so much as show up on Christmas Day ... until 12:08 AM this morning.
W protested this saying she told me long ago about the holiday arrangements, but obviously I was continuing to ignore her words, still to this day. She claimed we had discussed this at length. I told her this was not so, that I have been paying particular attention to any and all discussion of holidays since before Halloween, at the least.
The conversation devolved from there, as you can easily guess. My W is adamant that she told me I had been welcome on Christmas Day and that I was effectively calling her a liar. She said I was again making her feel like she was small, "about as big as a pea", and demeaning her when I had so little regard for her as to listen to what she said. She said that I was too arrogant and "perfect" to even consider that I might be wrong.
I told W that I was far from "perfect", especially in the time leading up to the bomb ("our falling out") but since then I have paid particular attention to my conversations with her and what she has said. I told her I never said she was a liar, but she had to be "mistaken".
(Side note: This is not the first time that W has gotten our conversations wrong. I now journal our conversations, as few as they have become, quite extensively. While I know I have gotten her words mixed up before in the past, I have documented now several occasion where she has failed to recall things correctly. But heaven forbid if I ever call her on these discrepancies. I really think W talks to so many other people -- her mother, her sister, her friends and family, her OM -- that she forgets what she says to who, especially me.)
W says this is just more of the same, that our problems with communication are too great and that I don't respect her enough to listen. In the past I would have to agree with her, because I really did have a problem with listening and comprehending what she was saying during the depths of my depression. But that is no longer the case.
Now I am in shock and seeing the insanity of this situation -- and that I am, at last, seeing that I really am fighting a lost cause. Nothing. Absolutely nothing I have said or done, or will do ... will ever change anything. Not with her.
So, I said, "That is why we are separated. We are just not communicating. I know what has been said between us." W agreed and echoed we need to be separated -- that she was sorry but she just cannot stand being with me. She said the best thing would be for us to sign the SA, complete the split of our finances, and speak as little to each other as possible aside from about our children.
W then begged to end the conversation to attend S3 and put him to bed. I let her go and calmly bid her good night.
I started to cry after that. It was not supposed to be this way. I still do love her.
I am just so devastated that she continues to have this animosity and contempt for me, that she feels that I am so abhorrent to her, and she sees me as being so horrid a person. As little interaction as I have with her, she still continues to perceive of me as some monster, and that my very presence is a burden on her. I am anguished that this is having a negative effect on my S's, that her perceptions of me affect their own perceptions -- and that they too are coming to believe that we are all better off if Mommy gets what she wants, even if the family is split. I hear what she is saying, and I know it is really her guilt that makes her ill. When she thinks that I am threatening to steal our S's away from her, she could only contemplate that if she herself had considered or was considering the same action herself. It is all my fault in her eyes.
Folks, today I am finally facing just how wide the gulf between W and I really is -- and how little progress we have made. We are so far from even being able to co-parent our S's effectively, divorced or not, I am beginning to lose hope.
Yes, thanks again, Sara. I do see the strings of W's manipulations. I also see what her motives are, whether she is actually conscious of them or not.
I suspect, if I can say that I think I know my W to at least some degree, is that her anger and hostility towards me, her abhorrence of me, all stems from her overriding desire to want to leave me at all cost.
To be more precise, I suspect that W is "saving herself" for the OM, that they have decided to lay low in their A until W can D me. But the strain on W is so great and unbearable, to be deprived of what she, in her mind, believes she is entitled to, that she harbors so much frustration, anger and depression -- and she sees me as the cause for this "suffering".
Basically, I am this evil, horrible obstacle to the bliss she thinks she can have with another person. I am the enemy.
All she can think about now is getting rid of me. She still has to survive another 6 months before she can file, but she is sooo impatient. I fear she is going to get more and more nasty as this progresses -- and I really fear what message this is sending to my 2 S's.
I can't fight this. There is nothing I can do. Part of me wishes she would just get on with her PA so she can just shut up and quit threatening my relationship with our S's. Let her deal with her guilt on her own. Let her stain her own soul if that's what she's so hellbent on doing, but I need to think about my S's now, first and foremost. I cannot save her; it's neither in my role nor in my capacity.
No Code... time to go dark. She wants space, give it to her.
If you read any of those "relationship gurus" websites, they all say the same thing... if someone wants space, give it to them. Dont initiate contact AT ALL unless its something you NEED to speak to her about regarding S's.
Even if you dont speak to her for months, its what you need to do. I remember a few years ago when my W and I first separated, she wanted a D and I backed off. We didnt speak for months... then one day, out of the blue, she called me and asked how I was doing. I was SHOCKED.
The point is, she needs time to work all this crap out in her head and she cant do that while you are around.
Show her you are confident enough to honor her wishes, you WILL survive and you dont need her to be happy in your life.
When you do speak to her about your sons, sound happy and dont ask her any questions about her life. Trust me, thats the path I am on now and just recently she started texting me again. Nothing major but thats how it started last time.
You really need to detach big time No Code, truly detach. The WAS almost always come around when you are at the point that you TRULY dont care if they come back or not. Its so weird how that works.
Hang in there man.
H4C
Hurtin: 32 WAW: 30 D: 8 Bomb: 10/05 Sep: 12/05 Back together 8/07 Bomb (OM): 11/07 Filed for D (me): 12/07
I have tried to go dark -- as dark as is possible given how I am trying to be a father to our S's. I will just have to insist on never speaking to W, to ignore her chitchat and not be lead into any more R talks, no matter what. I have to prepare for her frequent refrain of accusing me of failing to communicate whenever I don't follow into her minefields -- I just have to smile and ignore her, at all costs, regardless of the repercussions, because the alternative is far worse.
I give up. Silent running is now the mode with her.
Last night before going to bed I wrote up a letter to W. I have no plans to give this to her, but I think it summarizes my own feelings about us right now.
"Why did you make me fall in love with you?!!
Why was it so important to get me to put my heart on the line for you, to marry you, and alter my whole life for you?
If you never really loved me, then why?!!! Was it your ego, again? Was it your self-esteem? The same reason you have decided to cheat on me? To now dismiss my love for you once you thought I no longer gave you what you wanted? Now that you can get that "fix" from someone else? That boost to your ego, to your self-esteem?
Why?
Did you ever really love me? Are you even capable? Or is it that you can never really get past these self-esteem problems? These mountainous insecurities? That you are too fearful for your own sensitive ego, such that you can never truly risk giving yourself to someone else, for fear that they too will fail you?
Is this why I have always been tested by you? Is this why you are always doubting me? Persistently? Because you made me responsible for overcoming your insecurities? With no help from you?
Is this why you have lost respect for me? Because no one can ever measure up, not for long, because no one can overcome your own personal problems with your fragile self-esteem? Because you cannot allow yourself to trust anyone else? Because you don't trust yourself? Because you cannot believe in your own self worth? So even I, your husband, am suspect?
Is that why you feel the need to control others?
Is this why this seems a never ending battle? That because you refuse to recognize and account for this one weakness of character, I would forever be trying to prove myself to you? And forever trying to prove your worth both to me and to yourself?
And because I too am not perfect, and I do fall, you want to throw in the towel? Because I can fail and have failed to sustain my one purpose in your eyes, which is to affirm your self-worth no matter what?
But you did. You got me to fall in love with you. I can remember the very moment it happened. Can you? Do you really know what was going on in your own heart at that time? Was it really love on your part? Or was it the fulfilling of a need to have your own self-worth affirmed?
Was it Love ... or the idea of being in love?
Yes, you did get me to love you -- and I still continue to do so, despite all the pain and anguish it has meant. Though I sometimes really wish it were not so."
I fear I now know the answer to these questions. W will never answer them herself, but it doesn't matter.
