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Ok, wow. Your wife. How do you do it? Can you ship me some calm and patience? Wait, keep it, you need it.

It must be textbook WAS syndrome, because my H at first feared I would pack the kids up, sell the house, keep the money and the kids and never be seen again. I also told him that would benefit no one, and be horrible for the kids, so I would never do it. No matter how much *I* want to run away at times, I'm a staying for the kids. The cold and hateful thing? Where does she get that? What does she want?

Unfortunately you have no other choice but to continue the calm and cool path. Its so hard.

I think they do have an anti DB book somewhere.....

I wonder the motive to tell SIL all of that? Laying the groundwork, to make it look like "This is what I have to deal with every day. No wonder I am stressed and trying to get out. NoCode is crazy!". OhioMark might have to chime in on this one, he gets that too at times.

LL44 #1244988 10/27/07 10:02 PM
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Hello, all,

Get your 2x4's ready.

I've now had a couple of days now to reflect on the latest events on this wild ride. On Wednesday we (the W and I) had a counseling session with a psychologist at a (nationally recognized) center for childhood development. I sought this place out on a referral because of our S6, who has Aspergers. It turns out this organization does not really deal with Aspergers, or rather they are not equipped to focus on that condition, but they do help children and their families try to cope with behavioral problems.

W met for the first time with the therapist (T) last month, and until she found out that W and I were separated, she had reservations as to whether they could help us. Only once she realized that we were separated and the marriage was in jeopardy, were they interested in helping us.

Well, this week we met again with the objective of going over the issues that were leading to the familial strife impacting S6's day-to-day behaviors. The therapist explained again that her role was to not side with either parent, but to act as an advocate on behalf of our S6's interests.

My W leveled another set of accusations against me in front of another person. Again she took the opportunity to rake me over the coals in front of a stranger, and make me out to be the one who is impossible to live with. She did this with S6's teachers and briefly in the first session with this therapist. This time she again got to vent her dissatisfaction with me. The difference this time is that she was again on the tact of getting other people to try to admonish me for opening up to S6, just as she had done with S6's teacher a couple of weeks earlier. She was again berating me for effectively calling her a liar in front of our son and trying to get him to take sides in our argument. W again accused me of trying to put our 2 S's and our family between us, in a matter she considered to be "adult business."

Disturbingly, T agreed with W that the M was something that was coming to an end, and given the arguments between we parents, the separation was a necessity to reduce exposure to our S's. (This alarmed me because this was way too early in our conversation for T to come to this conclusion -- which leads me to question whether T is too much an advocate for divorce herself. That would not be helpful.)

The T agreed with W's basic complaint that what I did might be harmful to S6, not for the exact reason W felt, but because it did put S6 into the confusing predicament of having to decide whether one parent was truthful or not. T said "S6 needs his mother," as if I had to be told that. She said S6 is likely acting out because he feels now that his mother is not being truthful. I conceded the point because I would not want to do anything that would ultimately harm our S's. But I also said that this was trying to choose between the lesser of two evils or wrongs against our S.

Unlike before, I did not zip my lip this time when W tried to get the other person to take her side and gang up on me. I calmly stated my case that this was indeed a difference of opinion, and if I contradicted W's words to our S's, that is not my fault. I had not called W a liar -- I merely told my S, who was parroting her slant on the "facts", that they were just not true. If that led S6 to conclude that Mommy was lying, I was sorry.

But I stated that I also felt it important to not hide the full truth from our S's either, since when, not if, they find out the truth one day, S6 is not going to care that he was "only 6 1/2 years old" -- he's only going to care that his parents split up the family and hid the truth from him. I was not prepared to sacrifice my future relationship with my S just because W wants to play this off as some joint decision between the two of us when it most certainly is not.

I started to break down in tears at this point; it took me several moments to re-gather my composure to be able to continue. I feel that my relationship with my S's is all I have left. I don't want to jeopardize their trust in me -- just as my own father had done years ago -- but if it was in their best interest I would sacrifice that, and I would continue to be complicit in this cover-up if that was truly best for our 2 S's.

The T wanted to get to the bottom of why I felt this was a threat to my future relationship with my S's and their trust in me. Ultimately she got out of me that since I had been the one to actually sacrifice to leave our home to satisfy W's demand for a separation, I feared they would some day blame me for being the one who actually physically left. I also feel the truth is important, and my S's will feel that way too -- I am not the one who wants this separation or D. Despite what W pretends, the OM is a factor in this, in that W has no incentive to fix the M/R.

W kept trying to say to me -- and T -- that what I said to our S's was not true. That I had no way of knowing what the future would hold, so how could I make such "ridiculous" predictions. (On the other hand she also said that our arguments were proof to her that she could never live with me ever again.)

I replied that I was merely using W's own words and actions. W stated for me immediately after the bomb exactly how she expected things to go down: We would be separated for a year, we would then divorce and go our separate ways. She also had a chance to be happy with OM. That's what she said then. Since then, although I have tried what little I could on my behalf, she has done absolutely nothing herself to change this course, so how could she say it could turn out any differently?

In fact in her own dealings with our S's W has been sending mixed messages, which I stated to T. She has been introducing the concept of an older brother, a blended family and a new life out in the country, including a new tree house. W again tried to rebut this, saying I was mistaken and that S6 had gotten confused about their conversations, but I reminded her that she had said as much to me herself.

We ended our session about that point. The T left it up to me to decide how and when to proceed. She said that she did not feel she could help S6 directly at this time, not until this situation with his parents could settle down. But for now she felt she could best help S6 by trying to talk to the two of us. I am to schedule the next session with her when we are ready.

I am not sure I feel this is going to be helpful or not, not anymore. I am not too sure I want to have an avenue for W to beat me up over our failed R (with my insurance footing the bill, no less) when it won't have any positive effect on our M. On the other hand, if it would truly help S6, then I am willing to consider it. I just don't know at this point.

Later that afternoon, W had to call me at work. She mentioned some other business and then rather than let the conversation end she asked me, "So what did you think of our conversation with the T?"

I was silent for a moment, then said, "What do you mean?"
W said, "You do understand what she was saying, that putting S6 and S2 between us is harmful, right?" She said this in a gloating, provocative, "Nyah, nyah, in your face" manner.

I got a bit upset that she was taking such delight in being able to deride me. I told her that I had already apologized over and over for any harm I might have caused, but her continuing to dredge up these ill feelings were just so very hurtful. She launched again into another R talk and history revision. She was saying at one point (again) that I killed the M and that she was done and that I could not/would not accept that our M was over. I stopped her and said, "No, that's where you're wrong. I agree with you that this M is over. That M is dead and I don't ever want to go back to that." I really wanted to tell her I would never go back into a M with this person she has become, because it's too d*mn painful.

I come away from this thinking that I am so much better off when I don't see or talk to her. I know that this is not proper detachment; in fact it's really withdrawal. And much of me wants to withdraw again -- only part of me realizes that that is what got me in this situation in the first place, withdrawing from my wife, my family, my life. I want to retire to my cave, hide in my shell, to lick my wounds. But for the sake of my S's, for the sake of my soul, I swore to God I would not. I have to endure this. Some how.


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
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Boy your wife is a piece of work. I am so sorry for the pain you are in.

I am curious did the T say anything to your wife about the affair she is having that broke up the family? How did your wife respond when you told the T about her affair?

She sounds like a real lunatic. I think you did good in holding your composure. It speaks volumes to the kind of father you are that you are willing to help your children. (((((hugs)))))) to you.

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Thanks, TTHO,

W replies to T the same as she does with me or anyone else on the subject of OM. Whenever I allude to W's infidelity, she always dismisses it, passes it off, saying that the OM was not a factor in W deciding to leave me. W says she can never live with me ever again because of me, not OM.

W tries very carefully to never acknowledge the OM. I think her mother and maybe her legal counsel have advised her to no longer say too much on that. She never ever admits wrong now (that's her mother's playbook.) She continues to only say that OM is her "friend".

Still, one doesn't typically plan ocean front weekend getaways, buy mobile phones and put someone on your cellular "family" plan if they're only just a "friend".


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,643
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Your wife. Your wife. Oh your wife. I think she gets the award from DB for the person to rewrite the most history, and to place the most blame on one person. How frustrating is it when she dismisses OM but yet is planning a future with him. Oh that makes me sooo mad for you.

The fact that she is using your love as a father against you is just pure evil. Of course, you don't want to do anything to hurt your sons. And for the record, you did the absolute right thing when you straightened the facts out for your son. I think you are right, that you might have to continue these painful sessions with your W, for your son's sake. If you can eek even one helpful thing out for his benefit, it will be worth it.

My hat off to you. You amaze me.

LL44 #1245933 10/29/07 03:23 AM
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Thanks so much for the kind words, Lwb. But I cannot in all honesty downplay the results of what happened when I tried to level with my S, unintensional or not.

S6 did indeed state to his teacher that his mother had lied. While I had not called W a liar in front of my S, that is indeed the conclusion he drew. He's not stupid, and while he may be too young to fully understand the subtleties of differing facts and opinions, he has drawn his own conclusions. He wants and needs to believe his mother is being forthright and honest with him, but my differing views have indeed cast her words and deeds as being in stark contrast. I see now that I need to refrain from giving hardly any information to him if I don't want to jeopardize his relationship with his mother, which would be to his detriment (I am less concerned with hers.)

I know what's at stake here, even if my W doesn't. I know personally what it is like to lose one's trust in their parent. I was fresh out of college when my own parents divorced -- and yet it was still very painful. Only recently, after nearly twenty years, have I come to the point of being able to fully reconcile with my own father. I cannot bear the thought of breaking the trust I value with my own S's, especially when I have done nothing to warrant such a loss.

My wife's own account with my S's was already in jeopardy before I ever opened up to S6, but she is too intoxicated with this A right now to see the hurt coming her way in the future. As her husband and friend, my instinct would be spare her, to help her avoid that pain, but she has decided to remove me from that responsibility. So I cannot be accountable for how the seeds of her own screw-ups will one day wreck her relationship with our S's, even if I wanted to. It might sound cold and selfish, but I feel I have to think of my own relationship with our S's -- they don't need to lose both of us.

The pitty is that the woman I once married was so very differentfrom this. I am still continually shocked to this day when I compare the differences between how W was previously and how she is today. It is so chilling.

Last edited by NoCodeBlues; 10/29/07 03:24 AM.

Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,580
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I got an email from my brother's W last night. My nieces have been talking again (their interstate internet grapevine), and we now know when the wedding will be for my oldest nephew, W's sister's son: December 1.

The significance in this is that I have been playing wait and see with my W, to see if she will ever volunteer any information about her sister's family. W knows I love her sister and family as if they were my own, and yet she has obviously intimidated them into minimizing contact with me and my side of the family. (My wonderful nieces are pretty much rogue and defiant of W's wishes.)

I know blood is thicker than water, and my SIL has tried to minimize communication with me, especially since W would be upset with her if she did talk to me. I told my SIL that I understood, and advised her to do nothing to raise W's ire. W holds a grudge like the worst case I've ever seen, and my SIL knows this better than anybody -- so she has to be cautious.

I know my W is going to take my S's with her to go to the wedding. I am curious to see how she plays this, as it will be a serious acid test for how the rest of our lives will be handled.

(1) Will I get an invitation to the wedding myself. (I am not counting on it.)

(2) Will W tell me when the wedding will be?

(3) When will W ask me to take our S's on a trip, thereby giving up my weekend with them (December 1st is on a Saturday.)

(4) Will she even tell me what the trip is for? Or whether it is out-of-state or not?

(5) Will W, after traveling over 800 miles to Mississippi for this wedding, have the decency, to allow my mother, who lives only 42 miles away from my SIL's family, to see her grandsons? Or even allow them to talk to her?

(6) And assuming with some certainty that I will not be welcome at the wedding, will the OM be there? Will the OM get to travel down there to be with her and my S's?


So far all W has acknowledged to me is that our nephew has gotten engaged, and nothing more. If W plays according to her current modus operandi in recent months, she will keep me in the dark right up to the very last second, and thus give me no chance to plan my own trip. Then she'll say, "Aww, too bad; I'm sorry you won't be there. You nephew would really have liked to have you at his wedding. But we all know that your job is so important to you." Blah, blah, blah. (W has done this on so many occasions of late -- especially with parent-teacher meetings. And then she has the gall to complain to me that I never participate in important family matters!)

Unfortunately for W, I am fully awake now and paying very close attention to what is going on. And I am ever wary of her continual tests she sets me up for, to fail.

The test is on her now.


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,643
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WOW!! I can't wait to hear what her plans for this and how it unfolds. Bottom line, though, we are losing out on things and people that we love.

I totally know what you mean about being 'in the dark' about your inlaw's and family. I miss the updates, and I am sure this will be happening to me in some way soon.

Must be in the handbook to hold grudges. My H is a pro.

Last edited by lwb; 10/30/07 01:15 AM.
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Had a good time with my S's this Halloween evening. Up until the night before last S6 wanted to go as Lightning McQueen from his favorite movie, Cars. But he changed his mind at the last minute and decided to be Batman. W knew I had a plan to do something special one Halloween when the boys were old enough and in the right frame of mind, so she asked whether this would be a good year to carry out my idea -- I had thought that one Halloween S6 could go as Batman, S2 would go as Robin and I would rent a tuxedo and go as Alfred (as their escort while Trick-or-Treating.)

With S6 changing his mind at the last minute, I had no chance of getting a tux before tonight, which made my plan unlikely. However I happened to find the perfect Teen-Titans Robin costume for S2, and so I decided I would wear a trench coat and go as Commissioner Gordon. I told W I had a new plan, but she warned me that now S2 was in love with the puppy dog costume that S6 had worn when he was that age. I told W we'd let S2 decide for himself, and I had the Robin costume in case he was in favor. I also bought some silver-gray hair paint to turn myself into Gotham's commissioner.

I also took a lantern/flashlight and put a paper bat symbol on its lens, to turn it into a miniature bat signal.

When I drove up to our house, I disccovered that W had worked hard this afternoon to turn our Radio Flyer wagon into the Batmobile. She did such a good job, I was so surprised and delighted. S6 was beaming too, having helped her.

At one point, before we were to go out into the neighborhood, I went into the bathroom to spray my hair with the silver hair-paint. When I came out W said that I didn't look any different. I started to laugh, but then I realized that W wasn't joking. My natural hair color, while shot through with some gray, is still (mostly) dark brown. So I have to think that W was being a little snide and trying to get a rise out of me. I shrugged it off.

We had a great time, the boys and I. My S's looked absolutely cool and adorable at the same time in their outfits. I used some super-hold hair gel on S2's hair to make his "spikey" like Robin's. S2 was so cute! W stayed behind to hand out candy while my S's and I went around the neighborhood with friends and neighbors, and then it was over, all so soon. Another Halloween over.

I thanked W for all her efforts, for helping to pull this off. She really did so much to help out in getting this fun Halloween plan worked out -- I really was not expecting that. I know I shouldn't read to much into it, but it was something my W would have done many years ago.

However, I started to give her a hug in thanks as she was walking by, but she moved out of my reach before I could close the distance. She's still avoiding contact with me. Oh well...

Last edited by NoCodeBlues; 11/01/07 02:58 AM.

Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,643
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Posts: 5,643
That is so great your W was so into Halloween and did what she *should* do as a mother, make it wonderful for her kids. That makes me happy. Sorry about the possible 'dig' about your hair, but you handled it well. They have to lash out every once in awhile to remind us they are aliens.

Its ok if she is avoiding contact with you, just the fact that she did so much last night is wonderful. Maybe in time.......

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