OK, not wanting to go to prison is a decent excuse. Sorry you don't have the normal level of freedom of choice. You two are in a terrible slump and Retrouvaille would make a huge difference.
I think grad school is a good idea if she can do it. She needs to get active and involved in something to blow through the depression.
well, it's not really active per se. She does enjoy hanging out with her friends which is part of the thing I hate about her. We DO have fun together if she'd ever take down that damn wall. Which brings me to another thing I hate - the fact that she told me she was a tomboy and didn't believe in girly stuff like big weddings and then searches online for dresses (for her imaginary wedding to OM). Not that I mind her being girly or not being girly - I guess it just feels like I've been lied to. Like the alien is taking off the wife skin and revealing itself. I don't know.
Not really important cuz it doesn't change what I have to do about me but it does frustrate me if I dwell... so on we go!
Last edited by lester; 09/28/0704:31 PM.
H 30 (me) W 28 Married 9 yrs 2 children EA found out on 7/5/07 ILYBNILWY 8/25/07 The unexamined life is not worth living -Socrates
A real man buys the pizza, shares with his family, plays with his kids, and does the dishes afterward.
A boy goes off to play pool with his friends rather than face the situation at home (and yes, it is okay to play with your friends but for the right reasons).
Bravo.
Quote:
being inundated with how weak it is to keep house as a man.
I do housework my friend. Real men do housework! Never think otherwise. I cook too, how cool is that!
About the dream: The hard part will be the OM. That is tough. But remember your tools are assertiveness and courage. If you even bring up the OM it will be viewed as an attack by her. It may drive her into his arms. But if you let it build inside you, that is not good either b/c that leads to depression or "poor me" attitudes.
You will instead focus on the M and the R. OM is of no consequence. Who is the real man here lester? You who is fighting for your family or some low life scum who is trying to destroy it? That trash is not worth your sweat.
Your job now is to reinvent your M, not focus on Mr. Scum.
Let me speculate a little. You all married very young, and now have two young kids. Kids are wonderful but there is pressure. You mentioned Iraq so I guess military, and then the job pressure and being apart. Yes, she is burned out. She most likely feels that she has held the whole R together all this time all by herself. My former W felt the same way. They give up. They lose that attraction for us. They look around and say "what have I been missing? My friends are young and attractive too and they are having a great time!"
Then Mr. Wonderful (aka Mr Scum) comes along. W feels like one of her other young single friends: party time rather than diaper time. And I bet Mr. Wonderful has all the lines to stroke her non-existant ego and low self-esteem. You and I both know he is scum and is *interested* just to get into her pants. She only sees the attention that she has been missing with you (her thinking). Life would be so wonderful she thinks.
So be careful. Show her how wonderful YOU are rather than trying to explain how Mr Wonderful is really Mr. Scum. Attacking Mr. Scum will backfire. THAT she has to figure out on her own. She will figure it out b/c that low-life will dump her one day. That day she will crash - look around - and see her port in the storm and her rock. You.
frank_D's story applies here - how he went through a PA that his W was flaunting in his face. (Disclaimer: I don't think there is the OM in my stitch, but you never know).
Again, great post. I will lay off you awhile. I smell a success story here.
Oh it may not be relevant or not but to add to the story he is also married. I had a whole thread on whether or not to talk to his wife. I decided against it for now. Maybe in the future or maybe if she files but I don't what purpose it would serve now other than an ah haa got ya back type thing.
H 30 (me) W 28 Married 9 yrs 2 children EA found out on 7/5/07 ILYBNILWY 8/25/07 The unexamined life is not worth living -Socrates
I do feel better thinking more like a man. My goal with doing pool was just to blow off steam not really hide per se. I am flexible and spending time with my kids is just as therapeutic, probably more so. I had a babysitter planned too, so I wouldn't be dumping on her. I do hope for success although somewhat fearful for what that means -- I mean I hope she GROWS some too. I do see little changes in me accumulating but from what I posted you only know what she thinks she's been missing. There's hurt here too. I actually thought about divorcing her at year 2, and year 5 of the marriage. I didn't of course because I have morals and the willingness to try to get through it to the other side. That's a story for another day though...
Last edited by lester; 09/28/0706:41 PM.
H 30 (me) W 28 Married 9 yrs 2 children EA found out on 7/5/07 ILYBNILWY 8/25/07 The unexamined life is not worth living -Socrates
You've commented on the question of when to do Retrouvaille. Having been there myself, I would say the sooner the better. It cannot be too soon to go to Retrouvaille. On the other hand it can be too late.
They do not accept couples with an active affair. That's why Lester should do it before she really strays. While she's on the fence. Once she decides she's in love with OM and would rather lose Lester than OM it is too late. At least until that phase passes. When OM is gone again, then it would be time for Retrouvaille also.
I understand your desire to strengthen Lester's power within the marriage. I agree he needs to give her more direction, not vice versa. But that has no bearing at Retrouvaille. They focus totally on communication and correct problems there. Everything is 50/50. Same amount of time to think, write and discuss issues. Equal weight to both points of view. That by itself would be strengthening Lester's side since right now we only hear her.
Sara, I have not been to Retrouvaille so you may be correct.
My concern, as was Frank's I believe, was that insisting on Retrouvaille right now may be rejected as being pressure and controlling. Lester just trying to get his way.
Plus Lester told his W: "I wish I knew how to help but I know you don't like therapists."
Success with MC things depend on two people. Both should want to go. I have read where people have left Retrouvaille early b/c it is intense and one partner only went to keep peace or to *show* they were trying.
But again I have not been, so enough said. Is there a screening process of some kind to let you know if it is right for you?
Plus we were scheduled and she showed less interest than MC. I mean she may do it to keep the peace. But I don't know how much she'd get out of it if she was "forced to go".
H 30 (me) W 28 Married 9 yrs 2 children EA found out on 7/5/07 ILYBNILWY 8/25/07 The unexamined life is not worth living -Socrates
It is a self-screening process. If you think you can benefit from Retrouvaille, then you should go. They send a confirmation letter to the couple in advance asking you to attend with an open mind and a willing heart. Some people balk at that statement and fear going. I wondered myself if I belonged there. In fact, my mind and heart opened while I was there. In some places they ask both spouses to sign the letter. We didn't have to do that. They also tell you in the letter that you should have no active affairs or drug addictions. That is the selection process.
Most people think Retrouvaille is like counseling. It isn't. It is a private weekend for the couple with no group discussions. There are no therapists. There are presentations by 3 couples who tell their personal struggles, reconciliation and healing. Then they teach you the dialogue discussion technique and you practice it.
When people say it is intense, they are referring to the thought they put into writing about themselves. There is no pressure. You simply write about your own feelings and discuss them with your spouse. It is a very low pressure environment. There is time to wander the grounds and be alone, or to be with your spouse.
I have heard that story before of people leaving. But I don't know where it came from. No one left when I went, and I've asked people from other weekends if anyone walked out, and they said no.
Since they teach communication, the weekend can only help people. Whether or not you stay married, good communication is a plus. I've never heard anyone say, "the problem was we understood each other too well. So we couldn't get along."
