Gone Dancin's Dilemma, 3

[Not Much Left]

GD
Excellent!

[Gone Dancin']

waw, Kat, CVA -- thanks for the cheers!

I know that it wasn't a huge deal by any means, but it was an improvement nonetheless. For it to really start meaning something is to see it happen more and more. Once just doesn't cut it.

Getting ready to put the "last stand talk" second draft together. I compiled all of the notes throughout my thread, so it is just a matter of mixing and matching. Post will be coming soon.

GD

[Gone Dancin']

Hey everyone,

Finally came up with a draft #2 for the "last stand talk." Thanks for those of you who read through it and provide opinions. The talk will hopefully take place at my house when she comes to pick up the kids in the evening on Sunday the 29th (6 days from today).

DRAFT #2

"Hey, I was wondering if I could talk to you about a few things before you leave.

As the D date gets closer, I've been doing a lot of thinking. First, I want to apologize for filing for D in the first place. It wasn't something that I wanted, but something I did out of spite more than anything. At the time I was still struggling with myself a lot -- in particular issues like my anger and my need to be in control of everything around me. I know that at the time of filing, I also made some poor choices like asking for Primary Physical custody of the kids, and also not showing support or empathy as you struggled with your vision while trying to find my atty's office to sign the papers. I should've had compassion and genuine concern for you, and it is obvious that I didn't. Again, my inability to deal with my anger clouded my better judgement and I failed to be there for you yet again, as I have failed to do many times in the past.

Throughout our M, I consistently failed to meet your needs. I did what I thought you needed, rather than really looking at or asking you what you needed to make you happy. If I wouldn't have been so selfish, I would've seen the kinds of things that you valued and that were important to you. Heck, I actually saw things that were important to you but waved them off simply because they weren't important to me. I put myself and my needs on a higher pedestal and priority, rather than try to be equals with you like married couples should be. I didn't allow us to work together, to make decisions together, to grow together, and I should've never taken on that liberty. I took both you and our M for granted, and forced us to live a lifestyle that I thought was "right," yet neither of us truly wanted. I allowed my own insecurities to steer me in wrong directions, and I'm sorry that I wasn't strong enough at the time to love and value you for you, and me for me.

These mistakes, along with many others, are all things that I'm sincerely sorry for and will always regret. However, I've finally gotten to a place where I can own all of my mistakes, short-comings, etc, and let them go. For the first time, I've come to understand what it means to forgive and to truly follow through with it. It doesn't mean to forget, because that is nearly impossible to do. What it does mean is accepting past failures, mistakes, and choices that were wrong, but understanding that these things happen and recognizing that no good can come from dwelling on them. A person can't productively move on with their future while lingering in this past. For me to be the kind of person I want to be, this is something that I've had to learn. We both made mistakes throughout our M and R, and once I was able to face my role in the breakdown and failure of our M, I actually found that it was much easier to forgive you than it was to forgive myself.

Something else I wanted to address was my poor attempt at unfiling for D, and what I mean by that is the fact that I didn't talk to you about it, but instead sent the request through our atty's. Talk about sincere, huh?! How could I have ever expected you to respond favorably to such a request that was made in such a way? You know, the fact that I filed and got this ball rolling in the first place has been something that I've struggled with for a while now. I know that this is likely something that you wanted and may still want, but it isn't something that I'm ready to follow through with at this time. If you're not 100% sure that it is something you want at this time either, then I would like to postpone it. We can still keep the mediation agreement on file, maybe even file for Legal Separation. Postponing the D doesn't mean that there are any expectations. It just means that there is more time to consider things. When I forced you to make a choice shortly after Xmas to either get back together or D, I didn't realize how much space and time you needed to sort things out in your mind and heart. I was grasping for control again, because not having any was so new to me and I didn't know how to handle it. Unfortunately, I didn't see your feelings and needs at the time as having much validity, and if I could go back I would never have forced that conversation and would've given you as much time and space as you needed. I finally understand the things I did to push you away from me and cause you to resent me. I was a horrible husband a lot of the time, and you deserved better then and deserve better now.

I've been working really hard on myself and making changes that I know need to be made for me so I can be a better person. No matter what happens between us, I will continue to make those changes and make them to stay, and will be better because of them. I've said it before and I'll say it again right now: going through what we've gone through for the last 8 months was the best thing that has happened to me, and not because I've lost you, but because I've found me and the kind of person I want to be.

I guess I say all of this so I can get it off of my chest one last time and let you know where my heart is, but also because I'm not ready to follow through with the D yet. I understand it very well may be what you want, and if so then I won't stand in your way. I just struggle with the fact that I started this D process for the wrong reasons and now can't do anything about it. Would you be willing to put the D on hold for now?"



Okay, so that's the talk, draft #2. Obviously it is considerably longer than draft #1, and I don't know how I can possibly put it all out there without memorizing it or printing it off and reading it (which I believe wouldn't seem as sincere and spontaneous -- or from the heart as much). In the event that she says no, I'm going to come up with a follow up talk that accepts that and then mentions possible reconciliation down the road post-D, if circumstances and timing lend to such a possibility.

Opinions, suggestions, constructive criticism, etc, on draft #2? Thanks for everyone's assistance in this!

GD

[C_K]

GD

My opinion ( and its just that an opinion )

I have only had a quick read through and have some comments.

I think it is way too long for a start , there is no way you are going to get through that without having your W sidetrack the conversation.
I would also take out this sort of stuff

I was a horrible husband a lot of the time, and you deserved better then and deserve better now.

Anything like this will just remind her of why she left and what a good idea it was. It is quite pursuing as well and may have the opposite effect of what you are after.

I know you have put your heart into this letter , however think something much shorter would be better or even just a simple statement such as;

W I am not ready to do this , I am sorry I started it , how about we postpone the D for a few months?

Remember your actions have spoken much more for you than a words will at this stage.

Dave

[NikB]

Dave - that was my very first impression too. Way too long, and gives W no room to really express herself either. I think this is a GREAT letter to write to yourself, but not to share with W right now - at least not all of it.

I think something simple and more to the point would be best, too. She's going to get overwhelmed after about 3 sentences of this, honestly... and I agree it may remind her why she left. Or get her thinking defensively, reasoning with herself why she was right to go.

Also speaking as someone who tends to write stuff here, practice it, re-write it, practice more... sometimes it's better to just have the top couple of points in your head, exactly as you want to say them, and forget the rest (cause most likely, you're going to forget anyway when the time comes!).

If it helps here were the key points I got from it, and how I might say them:

- (stolen from Dave because I think it's good): W I am not ready to do this , I am sorry I started it , how about we postpone the D for now? (I'd say now instead of "a few months"... leaves it more open)

- I've been working really hard on myself and making changes that I know needed to be made so I can be a better person. It's been hard, but going through what we've gone through for the last 8 months has really helped me to find myself and the kind of person I want to be.

The rest of it... if I really step back and try to look at it from a WAS perspective... I just wouldn't share it right now. I can provide some details if you want (based on recent conversations / interactions with my stepmom and sister in law, both of whom are WAWs at the moment). But I didn't want to go into that unless you really want to hear it.

[SunnySeason]

Hey GD,

Sunny here, finally coming up for air Nomo dropped in on Still & me & the activity level has been much like the tempo of the posts.....non-stop.

Have been keeping up w/you though & want to say it sounds like a big positive. She is regaining some of the connection you two had. Anytime there is a giggle, it's a big step in the right direction.

You handled that whole sitch extremely well, especially adding on the P/U so she wouldn't have to stress about it.

We'll be catching up w/you in a while.

Cupcake

[Gone Dancin']

Thanks Dave, Nikki, and Sunny!

Dave & Nikki,

Quote:
I was a horrible husband a lot of the time, and you deserved better then and deserve better now.

Anything like this will just remind her of why she left and what a good idea it was. It is quite pursuing as well and may have the opposite effect of what you are after.

I'm sure you're right, and I debated on whether or not to include these kinds of statements about the bad times in the M. However, I was coming from the POV of waw1978 in that it would be good to apologize for my role in the breakdown of the M. I also think the two of you are right in that it's way too long and would be overwhelming for her to hear (and for me to remember). I'm just not sure how to evoke the emotions in her to actually agree with postponing the D. I mean, this is the "last stand talk" -- I don't know how effective a few sentences will be in convincing her or at least getting her to consider it. This is my last chance before D day. Is making it that short and sweet good enough? I do, however, like the combination of Dave's statement and your additions to it, Nikki, and think that it could be pretty effective in getting my major points across. I just don't want to risk leaving out something that would be important for her to hear (i.e. that she might want/need to hear), but at the same time I don't want to risk overdoing it (which I agree I've done). It's just a double edged sword.

Nikki,

The rest of it... if I really step back and try to look at it from a WAS perspective... I just wouldn't share it right now. I can provide some details if you want (based on recent conversations / interactions with my stepmom and sister in law, both of whom are WAWs at the moment). But I didn't want to go into that unless you really want to hear it.

I would like to hear it if you're willing to go into it. Any WAW perspective is helpful.

Sunny,

I'm so bummed that I'm missing out on all of the fun!
Glad you are all having a blast though! Still in suspense regarding last Friday...

Have been keeping up w/you though & want to say it sounds like a big positive. She is regaining some of the connection you two had. Anytime there is a giggle, it's a big step in the right direction.

I suppose so, but I'm trying not to get too hopeful. After all, she is living with OM now. It did meet one of my goals, but I don't think I can count it unless it happens more than once every 8 months (preferably every couple weeks or so). Oh well, beggers can't be choosers so I'll take what I can get. Thanks for the PMA!

GD

[christarn]

GD...I am the WAW...and hearing my H take some ownership would be appreciated at this point...but agreeing with the others I wouldn't over due it, "horrible husband" may be a little drastic! I think you are deffinetly on the right track...what did your DB coach say...did you run your rough draft past him/her...keep up the good work!!

[Gone Dancin']

christarn,

Thanks for the feedback! Appt w/ DB coach is tomorrow at 1:00 Mountain Time, and I'll run it by her then. I'd like to get as much feedback as possible from DBers here first though so I can tell her what many people on the BB are thinking.

Can you tell me what besides the "horrible husband" talk is overdoing it? What would suggest I do to shorten it up without sacrificing the important points?

Thanks again!

GD

[Heimlich]

GD,

I'll chime in as well with the Greek chorus here. Too long. Though I'd be interested in hearing what others think of giving her the letter after you hit the high points. Anyone?

For the spoken part:

(stolen from Dave because I think it's good): W I am not ready to do this , I am sorry I started it , how about we postpone the D for now? (I'd say now instead of "a few months"... leaves it more open)

- I've been working really hard on myself and making changes that I know needed to be made so I can be a better person. It's been hard, but going through what we've gone through for the last 8 months has really helped me to find myself and the kind of person I want to be.

I'd put in that you understand how controlling you were in the past and that the D proceedings were a way for you to maintain control. I'd go light on the "I'm changing" and definately not remind her that you were a "horrbile husband." Nicht gut.

Take responsibility for your anger and control issues. Weave that into Nikki's point about the last 8 months have been instrumental/important/key (can't think of the right word) to really discover who you are and be the man you want to be.

My sense is that you've got 4 minutes or so before she tunes you out. I hope I'm wrong, and if I am and this starts a discussion, I think you'll be ready to carry on and support your points in detail.

BD