Scott - it's amazing you can let go of that anger. I doubt I would be able to step up to that. if my H had had an A I don't think I could be friendly to him ... but I'd like to think I could be. Scott - I admire you can so that, it's very Buddist - letting go of everything you fear to lose. Wow. I admire that.
Now - when you seeing your lady friend next? Let's hear about some of the good in your life.
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married)Sept05 Seperated Sept/Oct 05 Oct 06 - H recomitted July 11 - I am now a WAW.
Rob, I will simply ask this one question of you because it is fairly obvious that you and I differ on this subject matter.
We can certainly agree to disagree.
Originally Posted By: sofaraway
Do you believe that the loving detachment should continue on if theh spouse is continuing the relationship with the individual that they had an affair with?
Well, that's a tough one, alright. Let me give a couple answers - both of which are couched in the language of what I would WANT to be able to do.
First, if W was still with the OM, and I saw that she was happy and moving on to a 'good place' - then yes, I would do my best to let her go with loving detachment.
Second, if W was still with the OM, but I perceived that the affair was the result of her MLC pain, unhappiness and confusion - then yes, I would try to maintain an attitude of loving detachment while working on myself and hoping that she eventually returned from the mothership.
I'm not saying that either of these is easy, or promising that I could get there - but that would be my goal.
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
Sorry, but I disagree with your definition of unconditional love.
Unconditional love is a concept that means showing love towards someone regardless of his or her actions or beliefs.
Quote:
In fact, unconditional love means that you are not afraid to treat her the way she deserves to be treated for her choices.
This sounds more like CONDITIONAL love to me. "In conditional love: love is 'earned' on the basis of conscious or unconscious conditions being met by the lover, whereas in unconditional love, love is 'given freely' to the love one 'no matter what'
Quote:
You know what, I wonder about your self esteem sometimes
I don't see anything wrong with Scott's self esteem just because he wants to be there for his wife. I think he has shown great strength of character to treat his wife the way he does with everything that she has put him through.
I don't expect for you to agree with me, because you never do, but you should turn the mirror back on yourself. I think some of these things are issues of your own and not Scott's.
M: 29 H: 27 Married: 6/22/02 Bomb: 6/12/06 H moved out: 6/16/06 Signed D papers: 1/8/07 D final: 5/14/07
Scott, I am late to this discussion. I will keep this short and simple.... Whatever you did or however you acted was no reason for your W to go have an affair. . Plain and simple. The WAS's say " WE" pushed them to it. I call BULLSH!t. My STBX got very needy and jealous a few years back cause I worked alot. Did I start to dislike him... YES!... Did I want to leave him.. I thought about it. Did the idea of running into some other guys arms ever cross my mind cause he was being emotionally abusive?? NO! DID I choose to stay in my marriage and voice to him what I felt. YES... I made a choice to do the right thing unlike our WAS's. Scott you are a wonderful man. Smart, funny, handsome, caring, sweet, kind, gasey Please dont sell yourself short. ok. done. caring on...
luv ya !!!
Last edited by shoeprincess; 06/22/0703:45 AM.
found out about affair 8/06 H moves out Nov/06 D final 8/07 X re marries OW 5/08 _________________________ Courage does not always roar, sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day saying... " I will try again tomorrow". -- Mary Anne Radmacher
Sorry, but I disagree with your definition of unconditional love.
Unconditional love is a concept that means showing love towards someone regardless of his or her actions or beliefs.
Quote:
In fact, unconditional love means that you are not afraid to treat her the way she deserves to be treated for her choices.
This sounds more like CONDITIONAL love to me. "In conditional love: love is 'earned' on the basis of conscious or unconscious conditions being met by the lover, whereas in unconditional love, love is 'given freely' to the love one 'no matter what'
Quote:
You know what, I wonder about your self esteem sometimes
I don't see anything wrong with Scott's self esteem just because he wants to be there for his wife. I think he has shown great strength of character to treat his wife the way he does with everything that she has put him through.
I don't expect for you to agree with me, because you never do, but you should turn the mirror back on yourself. I think some of these things are issues of your own and not Scott's.
You right, I won't agree with you at all and am quite surprised you had the cahonas to post back at me, I'm shocked by you. Of course the shot about turning it back on myself was uncalled for, but I expect no less from you Kristy as you still resent my honesty with you. SO.. anyway.....
You completely missed the point Kristy, as usual because you get defensive anytime anyone differs from you. Unconditional love does mean that you accept their faults, it also means that you love them enough to be honest and real with them. If you are mad, you express anger (in an acceptable form, not yelling or screaming), if you are sad, you tell them, if you are happy, you tell them. My point to Scott on this, which HE completely got was that unconditional love does not mean that you sacrifice your own well being. If you had bothered to really read Kristy you would have seen that.
Secondly, Swashy and I have a very close relationship. He knows damn well that he has some self esteem issues when it comes to his wife and being without her. Again, you stick your fuckingg nose in where you do not understand and tell me to point it back on me. Wrong again kristy, my self esteem is just fine. I won't even go into yours because we all know where it stands now don't we.
The one thing that you should know after all these months is that Swashy and I have a very special relationship. That relationship is built on trust and honesty with one another. We both depend on one another to bring to light the way that we feel about each others posts. If Swashy had issue with my posts he would have told me so. He didnt, you did. Again sticking your nose where it does not belong. Shocker.
I kind of thought that you and I had an understanding to not post to one another and I have respected that. I would appreciate if you would do the same for me as we so obviously do not process thought the same way. I don't really give a sh^t if you dispute my opinions, but don't turn it back on me and not expect me to respond. You haven't earned the right to analyze me Kristy.......fair enough.....
Now back to Swashy........sorry for the interuption bud, and you can yell at me for this post later........
Do you believe that the loving detachment should continue on if theh spouse is continuing the relationship with the individual that they had an affair with?
O.K. I want to chime in on this one because I am going through this right now as well.
As far as lovingly detatching I think it is the best way to go in every and all sitch's no matter what is going on especially if there are kids involved. I say this for the following reasons.
1) The kids need to see that their parents can always settle their difference and get along. The differences need to be put aside when their are kids involved because they have already dealt with enough sh!t as it is and if there parents go through the rest of their lives hating each other they will learn from our examples that it is alright to hate when some one wrongs you.
2) Lovingly detatching helps you deal with the problem at hand in a more rational manner. Why always continue to fight about the same old crap. Yes the STBXW and I have our differeing opinions on our morals and my sitch is far different than anyone's that I have read on here but in the same sense I deal with the same sh!t as everyone else. I CHOSE TO TRY AND HANDLE IT IN A FIRM BUT LOVINGLY MANNER. And for that it confuses people on here and they get the assumption that I am going to reconcile with my W.
Is it easy to lovingly detatch? Hell No. Is it the right thing to do? I do not know I guess to each his own, but in my opinion which might not mean much to many people anymore. I feel that is the person that I want to be and the person I want I want my kids to grow up and say hey I want to be like that guy. He went through all of this crap and was able to come out on top and save his future by gaining control and letting go of the anger and resent ment when it did not seem possible.
Now I am not saying I am friends with my STBXW or am I an enemy either. I am more indifferent than anything else.
Just my 2 cents.
Ben 32 STBXW 29 3 kids (D1,S4,SD8) (1 dog 5months) Status: Fighting for the Kids.
"The only thing we know about future developments is that they will develope."
Now that my rant is out of the way, and I apologize again for it being on your thread, lets get back to you a bit.
First off, for everyone to see right off the bat, I support you no matter what you decide to do, you know this.
Here's my thing, I just don't want to watch you hurt at all because you choose this method. So in accepting your choice to be "unconditionally loving" I want to know what you are going to work on for yourself in order to protect you from some of the personal hurts that go along with that. Because they do come buddy, I know you will accept them, but what are you doing to make that a process that you know ahead of time?
Rob is right, this choice that you have made is a very difficult one and requires incredible strength. Have yours ready, and have people that you can turn to to help prop you up as you fall a bit. You know I will always be there for you.....
Anyway, I will miss you my friend. I will miss our daily talks something fierce while I am gone. I hope that the next ten days are peaceful and quiet for you buddy.
Ben, good post, and I think you understood what I was trying to say about accountability as well. You have been a master lately at this stuff.
Ok...first off, lets talk about this little spat. Knock it off! Ian, I think you took what was some constructive critisism as an insult because of the source and used that as an opporunity to go off. And I do agree with Kristy's definition - not Ian's and Ian and I have talked about that. What it comes down to is, if I was in a committed R with her and she wanted my advice, etc...then yes I would have the responsibility to raise these issues. However, we are not and she does not...so it does no good to raise them. Anything I suggest she would just run in the opposite direction anyway...so it only harms her more.
Rob and Jen...thank you! Jen...my "friend's" friend that we went out with has actually invited to dinner tomorrow night...interesting. Rob, I guess the one difference is that I'm not doing this to save my M anymore. I'm doing this for me. I need to prove to myself (thank you Cori!) that I can meet obsticales in life with love instead of anger. This is for me. I will not allow her poor choices hurt me anymore. She can make all the poor choices she wants. The more she makes the more it makes me realize that I do not want to spend my life with her...but I refuse to be angry with her for her poor choices...those are her's to make.
And Ian asked the question he asked because she IS with him and will be with him. "I will not leave you for him" was just another lie. She may tell herself that she is leaving me because of issues in our M...but the fact is, he is still the carrot waiting on the other side. And it may work out for them. I believe in my W enough that I am fairly certain that he is probably a good guy. Immoral for messing around with an M woman and ripping my kids lives apart...but I'm sure he treats her well. Will they have issues? Of course, all Rs have issues. The shame I see is that at least we know our issues...she'll have to learn new issues with him and risk failing again. What will happen if and when they do have issues and she decides to stray again. Will he stand by her and treat her with unconditional love...odds are no. But that is for her to learn.
I just need to focus on doing what is right for me right now and that is to stay this loving, caring guy that I have fought so hard to become. Her choices sting...no doubt. But I need to stay strong and let it go. (in my opinion that is only something that someone with a very strong self-esteem could do!...IAN!)
SO....last night was my Ds dance recital. SO DAMN CUTE! I was very, very proud of her. Her parents backed out for some reason...could be because they didn't want to face my parents...maybe. Anyway...I had so much fun watching her. I actually started to cry during her 2nd performance...I love that little girl so much.
But we had a good night as a family...it was fun. One thing that struck me. On her way there...she got lost. She called me. I was on the phone with Ty and didn't realize she was trying to reach me. I looked down and had 4 missed calls...quickly called her and she was lost....running late and freaking out. I tried to calm her down, find out where she was and tell her how to get there. The recital was in a town 15 minutes north of us...pretty snotty town....well she started going off on "I hate this town. I hate the people in this town. All driving their huge SUVs" I just laughed at it...it was kind of funny. But then I looked back on it and thought...just one more instance where she has to find someone else to blame. There was nobody else to blame...she left the directions at home and she got lost...so she blamed the whole town! It's all about ownership. LOL. I do hope that she can learn that lesson someday and stop playing the victim.
Great post Ben..thank you! Very well said. Again...I will be her friend and treat her in a friendly manner...but we can't be friends until she treats me as a friend.
Ian buddy...I know you are there for me 110% and will alwasy respect my decisions as what are right for ME. I also know that you will always make sure I look at every decision from every possible angle to make sure I am doing just that. You're a wonderful friend and I will also miss you tremendously over the next 10 days. PLEASE enjoy your trip, have fun and do for YOU!
Please dont sell yourself short. 