Stillme's Chapters Continue

[stillme]

Geez, can't believe I have to start another thread already! Here's a link to the previous one (Stillme's Last Chapter?): http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1070715&page=2&nt=8&fpart=1 and a

BRIEF Recap:

IDLY Bomb: end/Oct.'06
D Bomb: end/Nov.'06
H was to move out Jan.07, but Dbing begun 1/5/07 &
H stayed in home (as friendly roommate w/occasional benefits).
In mid-March '07, b/c of disagreement/control issues re: my getting a FT legal sec'y job (H's want) vs. (my pref) pursuing Pilates instructor career, I told H he needed to move out & he left that wkend (moving into an apt across the street).
Since that time, H has been consistently angry & ugly, or avoids/ignores me (with a FEW minor breaks for 'nice' interactions).
H's anger is financially-based.
To date No D Papers have been filed

**************************************************************

So, I told my C today about H's anger which DB Coach believes is from H's financial stresses which he feels I am not only not validating but the cause behind. She agreed. When I gave examples of what I said/what H said in some recent negative interactions, she said she sees me doing alot of "stating" (ex., "H, if you leave the lawnmower [where I can get to it], I can/will mow [instead of him]" & even, when I THOUGHT I was wording it well! "H, I know you said you were going in to work today, but I thought I'd call to see if you wanted to keep S w/you b/c he'd rather not go shopping w/us") and this is a form of attempting to control him. She's right!!! And, okay, this is "just the way I am" and certainly not (usually) meant in an aggressive/controlling waiy - but, at least in this sitch, it's not the best way to go as it only fuels H's anger - obviously. Who knew??!

So, instead of Stating, she wants me to put question marks after almost every thing I say (or at least every new subject, or first few sentences of our interactions). "H, would you like to keep S today?" or "H, should I try & mow the lawn while you're away?" - There's less opp. for him to have an ugly response, and may SHOW (duh! more DBing) that I'm trying to work WITH him on this sitch instead of AGAINST him.

When C & I talked about H's financial stress issues, she wants me to Question H along the lines of, "What can I do to help the sitch [financially] for right now?" "What is something that can help us (yes, US!) financially?" and, after I crunch some numbers, give him some info & figures re: my P.career projections (as 'positives' rather than the 'negative unknowns' he only has to work w/).

A few things she said to be cautious about:
(1) If H is as "all about getting HIS 50% of the kids' time per month" is may be b/c he is looking to have the child support become a non-issue. She says (tho I don't remember reading this in my research) that if we each have the kids for 50% of the mo., there is no child support paid by either party to the other, & being Primary Caretaker has its benefits (not the least of which is $). (Something to ask L about on Mon.); and

(2) Do not tell H if/when I decide I don't want to live in the house until I (at least) talk to my L. She talked about how my 'giving up' the house w/o a S Agreemnt or b/f D may be looked on negatively by the Courts; that if I (as kids' Primary Caretaker) don't want the house, it must be sold & the proceeds divided; & mentioned more than once about single-mom apt-living is not the safest place & "locks me in" for a long time ($ down the drain basically) . . . I don't know about all of that either, but it's best to check it out w/L b/f going public w/any decisions I may make.

So, I'm crunching numbers. . .Working on getting as many new clients as I can in the next wk or 2, so I can (hopefully) have some really good positives to show for myself in the financial dept., take some of the weight off H (He even this morning said, "Do you want me to pay this?", holding up the cable/phone bill he'd just opened; and I'd said "Yes" thinking 'well, yeah, that's waht you said you were going to do. Why are you asking me?') Okay, I'm looking at it diff. now. (In my favor, I did pay my cc bill yest. instead of leaving it for H. . .) Am I selfish or what? I was (was!) so concerned w when/if H would stop the checks to my account for food/gas/etc & say I would have to be resp to pay x + y + whatever as well . . .

OT, is this what you meant by your post? I took it that you meant I shouldn't have felt entitled to $uppport after D. . .

So, lots of thinking today/tonight.

[ItsKat]

Sounds like you have some good thoughts and plans going on.

Can I ask why you don't want to stay in the house? I know that in my case, I am not particularily attached to my house, but I know H doesn't want it. If I can handle it financially, I will keep it. The thought of the upkeep by myself sort of scares me, but that kind of thing can get figured out. The main thing that makes me want to keep the house is to keep as little upheaval in the kids lives as possible. I was just curious why you didn't want to keep yours.

[Nomopo]

Hello still:

So that's what a "Brief Recap" looks like.

In mid-March '07, b/c of disagreement/control issues re: my getting a FT legal sec'y job (H's want) vs. (my pref) pursuing Pilates instructor career, I told H he needed to move out & he left that wkend (moving into an apt across the street).

I don't remember that. Why did you ask him to leave the house? Any details you could cut & paste here again? I'm curious about that.

Since that time, H has been consistently angry & ugly, or avoids/ignores me (with a FEW minor breaks for 'nice' interactions).
H's anger is financially-based.

Is his anger also about being "asked to leave the house"? I mean the connection to the financial stress is obvious, but maybe the "being asked to leave" is more important. Just thinking out loud. What would it take for him to move back in (assuming he wanted to)? Do you think he would feel the need to be invited back (not that you could/shoul)? Or do oyu think he would be comfortable just telling you I am moving back in or I want to move back in?

When I gave examples of what I said/what H said in some recent negative interactions, she said she sees me doing alot of "stating" (ex., "H, if you leave the lawnmower [where I can get to it], I can/will mow [instead of him]" & even, when I THOUGHT I was wording it well! "H, I know you said you were going in to work today, but I thought I'd call to see if you wanted to keep S w/you b/c he'd rather not go shopping w/us") and this is a form of attempting to control him. She's right!!! And, okay, this is "just the way I am" and certainly not (usually) meant in an aggressive/controlling waiy - but, at least in this sitch, it's not the best way to go as it only fuels H's anger - obviously. Who knew??!

Not me.

So, instead of Stating, she wants me to put question marks after almost every thing I say (or at least every new subject, or first few sentences of our interactions). "H, would you like to keep S today?" or "H, should I try & mow the lawn while you're away?" - There's less opp. for him to have an ugly response, and may SHOW (duh! more DBing) that I'm trying to work WITH him on this sitch instead of AGAINST him.

I like it.

When C & I talked about H's financial stress issues, she wants me to Question H along the lines of, "What can I do to help the sitch [financially] for right now?" "What is something that can help us (yes, US!) financially?" and, after I crunch some numbers, give him some info & figures re: my P.career projections (as 'positives' rather than the 'negative unknowns' he only has to work w/).

I like this too.

I though she gave you solid advice on the two things to be cautious about.

So, I'm crunching numbers. . .Working on getting as many new clients as I can in the next wk or 2, so I can (hopefully) have some really good positives to show for myself in the financial dept., take some of the weight off H

btw, I'd like to order 57 private P sessions for the weekend of 8/11, and I will prepay.

Nomopo

[oldtimer]

No, I wasn't talking about alimony.

It was more the tone in the discussion you described in that other post more than anything else. The sense that the man is the paycheck, that you are entitled to the paycheck, and your financial input is optional in some way. I'm not saying that's how you feel, but that is how it sounded. I think that yes, you are getting at some of the stuff I was hearing.

But, please talk to your L first before you take ANY action that affects your financial sitch.

DBwise, I think it is a TERRIFIC idea to show H a pilates biz plan with projections. That is really stepping up and showing that you are willing to share in the financial burden. But legally, I don't know if it would hurt your alimony if H's L had your financial projections.

What about some other things? Can you cancel cable? Where else can you save money? Can you find $100 a month to save and ask H what he thinks of those ideas?

Imagine you told H: "H, I just can't handle things at home, I'm losing it. There are so many activities, the housecleaning, plus X,Y,Z. There is a lot of heavy lifting, there are repairs that only you can make, I'm really overwhelmed. My quality of life sucks, I can't do this alone. I really need some help with some of this. I want other things now that the kids are a bit older, I want to be able to spend maybe 10% of my time on this Pilates thing. It means a lot to me."

How validated would you feel if H said: "Gee honey, I can understand why that would be stressful, you've always been such a great housekeeper. It must be hard to feel overwhelmed. But no, I really can't take out the trash. Maybe I'll work on some of those repairs next year."

And then the next day you say: "H, you walked in the door, got mud all over the carpet, and threw your clothes all over the place. Do you want me to clean up after you?"

H replies: "Yes" while looking at you like you are crazy. You are the SAHM after all.

You see?

[SunnySeason]

Wow Still,

Just read new post & it's right along the lines of what I was wanting to talk about.

S-teenager is after me to get off so he can complete HW, so I'll get back to you tomorrow,

Sunny

[stillme]

Nomo: I don't remember that. Why did you ask him to leave the house? Any details you could cut & paste here again? I'm curious about that. ... Is his anger also about being "asked to leave the house"? I mean the connection to the financial stress is obvious, but maybe the "being asked to leave" is more important.

Nomo, wkend b/f Thanksgiv. H dropped the D bomb & said he was moving out & filing after the holidays. Xmas morn. I told H he needed to move out the day after his mom left (she was visiting 12/8-1/5) b/c I was crazy-emotional then [holidays, crying, angry, hiding from his mom/H -who was camped out on the couch from his knee surgery 12/5...]. From xmas nite thru 1/4 H initiated long heart-to-hearts, some very pos for our sitch, but always ending in him saying he was still "done" & moving out. DBing began 1/5 &, after a pos family-interaction wkend, H propsed that, if I 'let' him stay in the house for a few months, for financial reasons [he could 'chunk down' my Yukon, save for rental costs (He had used almost all oru savings on a boat just b/f Bomb), etc.] - altho I think even at that time he wasn't ready to really let go...

Jan./Feb I assumed I'd get work as a legal sec'y (the only thing I'd ever done) - bought $400 in office clothes (which H didn't bat an eye at), redid my resume, looked into jobs. . . and came on wall after wall. At the same time, gym was asking me to sub Pilates & to become the P.Personal Trainer there until they were ready to dev. a class for me (I had gotten cert.last Sept [pre-bomb] thinking it would be a good suppl-the-fam-income-get-me-out-of-the-house-alt.-to-FT-job-etc]. So....when I shared w/H (remember: we were 'friends' then) my excitement about P., he shut down the friendship & we couldn't go a day w/o fighting over the sitch. (He has since said he believes I 'blew' the 1 interview I went on b/c I NEVER didn't get a legal sec'y job when i wanted it...It doesn't matter that the firm has still not filled the pos...). So, friends were telling me H was cake-eating, I felt H had been using me & now trying to control me, we were both stressed & arguing in front of the kids...& I told him it wasn't working out & he needed to leave. (He did say he had been planning to move out after S's b'day 4/2 anyway...)

We had another heart-to-heart the night before he left, and I posted that it seemed to have let some light shine on our sitch. He borrowed my car; I gave him the coffeemaker, towels, pics of the kids for his apt; He even returned the next morn. & we talked like normal (I posted: What couple chats the morn after the H moves out?!) But by Mon. he was ugly, and has stayed that way since.

Nomo: What would it take for him to move back in (assuming he wanted to)? Do you think he would feel the need to be invited back (not that you could/shoul)? Or do oyu think he would be comfortable just telling you I am moving back in or I want to move back in?

I really think he NEEDS to be on his own. He'd been looking forward to it since at least last July (H admits to deciding on the D back then), and there were 2 times during our heart-to-hearts that he brought it up as a not-necessarily-bad thing, including "The only thing I can think of that may help is if we S for a while & really think about if it's [D] what has to happen."

Nomo: btw, I'd like to order 57 private P sessions for the weekend of 8/11, and I will prepay.

You nut!

[stillme]

Kat, about why I don't want to keep the house. . . mostly financial (the mtg+equity loan + homeowners dues is close to $2K/mo, and I can see myself being 'house-rich-dollar-poor very quickly, esp. after whatever period of alimony is over), plus the cleaning, maintenance, upkeep - if something major happens/needs repair/replace, I'm sunk, . . . the lawn (the time alone! 1 stoopid tree in the front yard keeps threatening to die, and to replace it [a must in our dev.] is $500 alone) . . .besides the fact that I never liked the house in the first place (we considered it an 'apt' house & something that we would upgrade when we had settled a bit) plus the memories (for me) and unrealized plans/dreams . . .

Yes, the kids love their neighborhood friends but I really don't consider them moving to another place w/me an upheaval or neg. change - after all we upheaved them just 2 yrs ago when we moved from TX to FL. I don't see much diff in this instance, esp if it's handled as NOT a neg thing.

I'm not enamoured w/the kids' school & had actually been considering putting them in my church's private Christian school (to be completed next yr) anyway, so tho I'd really not have to change schools, again, they'd do it anyway if it was what was best for them or the fam. W/H's apt where it is, the kids will still go to their same school no matter where I lived (tho I wouldn't move out of town).

Plus, if H takes it over, the kids can keep "their" house, rooms, neighborhood, school, etc. He's the handyman, he makes lots more $ than I ever will so the $$ doesn't frighten him as it does me, he needs the garage (boat, hobbies, car-guy stuff) & he hates change.

So, lots of reasons NOT to keep the house. I'm still not 100% there, tho.

[stillme]

Okay, still working thru responses. . . Thanks everyone for your input, and questions appreciated. Got less than 10 min. b/f I need to leave to teach a class [last-min. sub. Yay!], then more blood work [seems my thryoid is wonky], but I'll be back late-aft. to check on y'all!

OT, I am coming to believe I am one of those know-it-all people who really, uh, don't. I almost always 'listen w/o hearing' Ex., when C was sitting in front of me saying those things about asking Q's Re: helping the finacnial/stress sitch, I was listening but thinking "But H is the one who set up this financial stress sitch! But why should I make it easy for him? But why should I make it harder for me? But H is only gonna say Get a legal sec'y job!" But I listened & didn't disagree or argue and, by the time I got home (hrs later), w/o even knowing I had really been thinking about it, I had made a 180 & couldn't wait to post my revelation! Duh, me!

So, thanks for putting the initial thoughts out there for me. I can read them diff now, and see what you meant really. Actually when C first started talking about 'validating H's financial stress' I thought of your post.

I will talk to L b/f any decisions or showing H the P.projections/plans, but I will certainly prepare them - at least for myself for right now.

Shoot - gotta run. There's more to respond to. Some good ques. there - plus when I read that 'hypotehtical' you wrote, my first thought was "WHAT???!!!" (didn't get the irony. No smiley face, I guess.)

AKKK! I'm gone! bbl

[Nomopo]

Thanks for the detail on H's moving out. One more question.

So....when I shared w/H (remember: we were 'friends' then) my excitement about P., he shut down the friendship & we couldn't go a day w/o fighting over the sitch.

[. . .]

we were both stressed & arguing in front of the kids...& I told him it wasn't working out & he needed to leave.

How much time between these two pieces?

Nomopo

[SunnySeason]

Before I get to the "money" stuff & thoughts I've had on that, I want to urge you to proceed w/ caution on the house/schooling, etc.

Definitely talk to a L before making any moves. My trip thru family courts 8 yrs ago before my XH became one of my best friends taught me a lot;

1)The parent who stays in the family home has an advantage. Whether it's the mother/father makes no diff. It's all about the kids, period, & they're looking out for their interests only.

2)Your H has prob been counseled to keep a daily log of time spent & any interactions around that w/you. If you haven't already been doing this, best to start immed. By appearances, his wanting to make sure he doesn't lose any hrs from his 50%, it looks like he's setting precedence & will have no problem making the case for as little child support as possible.

3)If your H moves into the family home & has the kids going to their school, living in their home, etc. You might be the one who pays him ch. support. It could also be that if you wanted to send them to new school, you would have to get his agreement & then have to pay for it.

I'm not an attny, so don't really know all, just wanting to give you a heads up, so to speak, before you make any moves. A flight attendant I know ended up having to work more to pay ch. support to the H who left her for his secretary while they lived in the family home w/ her in an apt.

My XH tried to get me to sign a paper at one time for something else (SS?) that stated he was the primary care taker of our son & I only had him 1/3 of the time. I told him I was sorry, but I couldn't help him out by signing something that wasn't true. When we ended up in court (he moved to Hawaii & tried to keep S after his 4 week visit), I was more than glad I never signed.

Just things to keep in mind & perhaps try to "think out of the box" at options other than giving up home.

Best,
Sunny

[L21959]

Stillme and Sunny --
I must say that, while I'm finding these posts very important food for thought for me, and probably quite relevant to the future of my sitch, all this talk about Ls and being prepared for what Hs may be planning to do has reduced me to tears just now!

I'm not trying to be naive here; it's just my gut reaction today to how easily any of our sitches could turn quite ugly. And it's really tearing me up.

How does one gear up for this part? So much of DBing involves working on our own emotional/personal issues to make ourselves better, stronger, more open and honest people...and then there's this other piece that may well come to pass, where we may have to be cold and hard and selfish (not in a bad way, just how it is) That whole part scares the h$ll out of me...

Just thinking out loud in response to some good, hard reality.

L

[confuseddude]

Stillme and Sunny --
I must say that, while I'm finding these posts very important food for thought for me, and probably quite relevant to the future of my sitch, all this talk about Ls and being prepared for what Hs may be planning to do has reduced me to tears just now!

I'm not trying to be naive here; it's just my gut reaction today to how easily any of our sitches could turn quite ugly. And it's really tearing me up.

How does one gear up for this part? So much of DBing involves working on our own emotional/personal issues to make ourselves better, stronger, more open and honest people...and then there's this other piece that may well come to pass, where we may have to be cold and hard and selfish (not in a bad way, just how it is) That whole part scares the h$ll out of me...

Just thinking out loud in response to some good, hard reality.

L

L, it doesn't have to turn that way...all sitches are different. Mine certainly did not turn nasty.

[stillme]

How much time between these two pieces [seriously considering P.career & moving out]?

Tues. Feb.27 was morning mtg w/gym mgr + afternoon/interview for l/s job. Every day H would ask if I'd heard from the lawfirm (I never heard back from them; & I told H that they were not even 100% wanting to replace the pos. but wanted to at least interview me to have on file for future ref). On Fri. 3/2 when I said 'no/not yet' again & started talking about the P.avenue, he shut me down & went into This is What You Need To Do! mode. Ugly phone convo. (he was on his way to airport) and every day when he returned. Could not get away from the talks, and they were stressing all of us out. I think I told him he needed to move out on Thurs. 3/8. He was traveling that wkend & moved out Fri.3/16.

[Nomopo]

Okay, thanks. So six days after the financial blow-up and marked change in his attitude/behavior to generally UGLY man is when you told him he had to move out. I guess I was just wondering if some of his anger was not about finances at all, but about you "kicking" him out. I was fishing and its probably nothing at all. And don't get me wrong because I know you didn't "kick" him out per se. He had been saying for a long time that he was done, moving out, getting a D, etc., etc., etc. But you DID tell him over the holdiays he had to move out when his mom left (again, even though he dropped the bomb, and said he wanted to move out and get D), and then you did tell him to leave 3/8. I wonder if subconsciously (or maybe consciously, but probably subconsciously) he resents that. And even though it was six days later, maybe it has fueled his fire.

Don't get me wrong still. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't have done it. It sounds unbearable the way it was going, and he probably absolutely NEEDS his separation time. But putting aside any consideration of what you did and why, how do you think he feels about the fact that you told him to get out? Do you think he cares at all about it? Do you think maybe you called a bluff, and it hurt/angered him? He certainly can't admit it was a bluff, or that he was hurt or angered by you following through on his suggestion that he was moving out.

If this is a source of his anger (and my only basis for that at this point is how I would feel/have felt, not any of the facts you've given me), then there will have to be some diffusing of it at some point for progress.

I'm probably over thinking it, but it's either that or do some real work.

Nomopo

[L21959]

Nomopo --

Who gets hit with the DB billable hours


Stillme -- your ability to take in and synthesize OT and your C's comments and really work through them puts me in awe!!

L

[SunnySeason]

I'm with ya L, who needs the DB coaches when you can have these two helping sort out our sitch's,
along with their own

I bow to you,

Sunny

[Nomopo]

L, my partners get hit with loss of billable hours.

Sunny, quit including me in those sorts of comments. you and still are co-queens. End of discussion. I cannot wait to come to San Diego, BTW!

[stillme]

Okay, finally home. Girl's in the bath; boy's around here somewhere. . .and I've got a few min.

From OT: DBwise, I think it is a TERRIFIC idea to show H a pilates biz plan with projections. That is really stepping up and showing that you are willing to share in the financial burden. But legally, I don't know if it would hurt your alimony if H's L had your financial projections.

What about some other things? Can you cancel cable? Where else can you save money? Can you find $100 a month to save and ask H what he thinks of those ideas?

Working on the financials & should have something def. to show to L on Mon. w/poss (on her ok) of sharing w/H.

Am looking into saving/cutting into the utilities, etc. Have got mixed signals from H about this in the past (few mo.) tho, but I'm trying to think of how to best do it. Have a few ideas & will have a plan about that by Mon. also.

[NDDT]

Stillme......I am playing around with financials too. I think in my case it will be possible to keep my house, but I got some lifestyle changes to do too. I dont have alot to say right now, am in kinda crappy place, (in my head that is)

later take care

[stillme]

Well, did my financials, checked H's "50%" kid-sharing record (not!), did the checkbook, lots of paperwork and it's all not too bad.

Had a bit of a low this morn. when I saw kids off on the trip to GA for jj tournament. Before we left, I realized S was under the impression I was riding up w/them & friends to see him compete. I was caught flat-footed a bit b/c, well, how do I say I wasn't invited or wanted? Just put it off w/talk of the phone calls & video that would be made. . .But it got worse when I was standing outside the car they'd just been strapped into w/the W (my friend) who was going & I got teary. SHE asked why I wasn't coming if I wanted to, and it just sounded so pitiful that my children's father didn't want me along on "his" wkend to an event my own S was competing in - that it would be too awkward or whatever - that he didn't want to have me in the same car driving home w/him & kids for 7 hrs. Well, it WOULD be diff - but maybe not - and geez! Have we been reduced to that then? I guess so, and it made me sad. Had a small pity party, but am much better now and

Oh hell my friends are at the door. Gonna go eat & see Knocked up! bye!

[Reincarnated]

Sorry to hear you had to see the kids off; I purposely left before my kids had to go, because I couldn't see the car off. Its ok to let those feelings come through, sometimes, though.

Oh, and about Knocked Up--better than going out to GET knocked up (was the first thing that popped into my head).

Don't be surprised if the kids and/or the friend mention this to H--sometimes it is better for them to hear their pig-headedness from others for a change, instead of us.

I'm going to think about keeping a time journal for the kids, myself--think its a good idea.

Keep your head up--what else are you planning for the weekend? D and I are getting nails done tomorrow morning, then off to buy her a bedroom set I saw. :0)

{{{J}}}

[ItsKat]

(((stillme)))
Sorry it was rough seeing the kids off. I just hate all the different hurts we have to experience as a result of S or D.

And, yeah, I thought you were going out to get Knocked Up tonight too at first.

[Nomopo]

Sorry about the rough spot still. Hope you had fun tonight.

Sunny, quit including me in those sorts of comments.

You weren't including me. It was still and OT. I'm humiliated.

[stillme]

Thanks for the hugs, all. As you can see, it's way late but I'm up checking in w/y'all b/f I can sleep. lol.

Knocked Up was hugely funny - I recommend it to everyone! The guys in the audience (who prolly were there - at a 'chick flick' - pretty reluctantly at first) laughed the loudest!! And it was seriously funny thruout the whole thing. It's got the ('girl' stuff) R angles, but also shows Men at their, uh, unique Guy-ness selves. Funny, but also very touching, too (in a not-sappy way), b/c it's about, well, being pregnant & giving birth. Made me, o/c, compare it to H&me w/our first pregnancy/birth and, thruout, I'd think "J would laugh his butt off at that!" or "That reminds me of what H said/did during [ultrasound, baby-shopping, birth...]"

LOL about me getting Knocked Up. I really don't think immaculate conceptions occur much knowadays, so I think I'm safe.

My friend [who is driving to GA w/her husband/kids] had my kids call me 3 times today! God bless her heart.

As for the rest of the wkend, my BFF from Tampa is driving in in the a.m., but we don't have any def. plans yet. That eve., my friend A is supposed to be meeting another friend & a guy she wants A to meet for dinner, and A wants me & BFF to join them. We'll see. Sun. I have no plans yet.

Good news, tho, on the P.front since we ran into friend/A's co-worker & her family at dinner tonight & she & her daughter want me to give P.lessons in their home!

[Nomopo]

Hey still - we're night owls, but I'm cashing it in.

[stillme]

In my pity party morning yest. I had the (pitiful) thought that it's been exactly 5 mo. + 5 days since the last time H asked me how I was - and that was pretty quickly followed w/the thought that it's been even longer than that (definately pre-Bomb! 3 mo. earlier) that I'd asked HIM that question. So. . . lots of reflection on that whole subject and. . .

This morn. D calls from GA (from H's phone; yest. all calls were from friend's cell) & as we talk I hear H in the background (He & D were getting b'fast), so I know he's hearing her side of the convo. I ask D about the hotel (The girl wants to live in the Grand Floridian "when we have more money" & she's all about living large!) & talk positively when she says she wants to come home to see me; asked her to draw me a pic of the hotel or the pool area or her having fun, etc. Finally, when she asks if I wanted to talk to H, I said "Sure!" and, first thing I say is (cheerful) "Hi! How's it going?" (Ok, not quite Hallmark, but much better than our standard flat "Hey"s, lol) and, surprise, surprise, we talked nicely & casually for maybe 5 min., with even a tiny lol from H when I expressed surprise when H said [friend/jj instructor] was stressing & he said "You obviously don't know N very well, lol." So, a good interaction & Yay, me.

Am doing more paperwork (Pilates stuff), listenign to music, catching up on some Newcomers & waiting for my BFF to arrive. Oh, and started printing out the Chapters of Stillme's life, lol. However this ends, I will want to reflect on what was said & done & not forget to remember the important stuff in life.

Cheers, friends. I'll catch y'all later!

PS - Hey, Dre---uh, Nomo, just so we're even, it's not Julie, Jennifer or Juicy(?!). . .but lots of people DREAM of me.

[Nomopo]

J,

I wouldve never guessed that one, but it fits!

Nomopo

PS - did you think you had to put it in all caps for me to "get it"? Short bus, huh?

PSS - shouldn't you be signing G instead of J?

[Nomopo]

J,

I wouldve never guessed that one, but it fits!

Nomopo

PS - did you think you had to put it in all caps for me to "get it"? Short bus, huh?

[stillme]

PS - did you think you had to put it in all caps for me to "get it"? Short bus, huh?

You may not have noticed, but I tend to rush to Overkill on the written word accents, expressions & adjectives.

And, no, "G" if I was in a bottle; "J" if that's my name.

[SunnySeason]

Morning Still,

Loved the difference it made just by changing your greeting to H. Amazing @ how it matters, & how quickly H changed his tone, isn't it?

All the progress in the financial department & especially in your tweaking the presentation of it to H is too wonderful. Funny how it's sometimes hard for us to see how differently an interaction can go just by changing to ending w/ a ?. I'm going to give this a try too.

Cheers to you & have a great wkend w/BFF!

PS)BTW, I did mean you Drenomo (DB KIng), so nomo need to be
PSS)It's not Julie or Juicy(?!) for me either...but people do CALL me

[Nomopo]

Blondie?

[SunnySeason]

Yes,
But not what they say when they wonder who they can talk to...567-5309IIIII9.

And no, it's not one of those #'s

[Nomopo]

Got it!!

[Nomopo]

Still:

Donde esta usted?


Senor Nomopo

[stillme]

Oh, I've been around . . . but laying low pretty much.

Journaling ~

Sat. spent the day/eve w/BFF.

Sun kids called around 10am, said H was still in bed (They got home from GA about 2am). When I was about to hang up w/S, he said H wanted to talk to me & H (in his deep groggiest/sleepiest mumbling voice) apologized for not bringing the kids to me to go to church as usual. I said I understood, and that I'd slept in late myself & was going to the late-service at 11. I don't remember if/wht else was said, but it wasn't unpleasant.

Around 2pm I called H to see what time he'd planned on returning to the kids to me tomorrow/Mon. He said "About 9, I guess, okay?" and I said - well, actually I ASKED him, lol! "Would it work out for you if you kept them until noon? I have an appointment at 10." & H said "Sure" then went on a bit about why & what he has to do for work but that it could be started later in the day. He also talked in more detail about the j.j. tournament & said he'd be stopping by the house at some point that day to get [something, I didn't catch what] for the kids "If that's okay" and, o/c, I said "That's fine." (They came w/i the next hour & a half, while I was at church.)

At about 7pm, kids called again as they & H were driving back from Tampa/beach. This call was noticably diff (to me) b/c not ony had H never had the kids call me on "his" days b/f, but he was coaching them to tell me things. I could hear him say "Tell mommy what you did for the first time." and "WHO helped you make a sand castle?" (when D, for some reason, said she had to make a sand castle all by herself). He also did it when S was talking to me. And then H told me about another disciplining incident "just so you know". When I mentioned to my friend (A, whose house I was at at the time of the call) about the 'checking in' phone calls H is having the kids make to me, & H's need to tell me about frustrations/disciplining the kids, she said that H had taken note of these behaviors when I'd done them in the past (I had always been about fostering H's R w/the kids when he traveled) &, for whatever reason, NOW decided he needed to do it himself as a 'good' parent.

Oh, did I mention that he called a total of 3 times from the tournament?! First time wa when he had D call me while she & H were at b'fast & then he spoke w/me for a few min. The 2nd time he had S call me after he'd competed (He won his first round, but lost the second & seemed very pleased w/himself.) & then H got on the phone, and he was all out of breath. I asked why & he said he'd just competed himself (I didn't know he was going to - He hasn't even taken class since his knee surgery in Dec.) & was winded, but instead of jumping off the phone w/me, he stayed on & described his competition rounds & some other tournament info. Then, some time after the tournament ended, H called (not the kids!) to say when they'd be starting the drive home, how the kids had behaved (S had frustrated him, & he wanted me to know how & what he'd done about it) & some other light stuff. I kept it very casual & friendly.

Since this is really the first time H has had the kids call me on "his" days (tho he'd never taken them so far away b/f), I'm wondering if the friend/wife who drove the kids there (and who saw me upset about not going, too) may have said something to him. . .

Anyway, I'm off to my first appt w/a L in an hour - just to set the stage (if/when H has me served) & to find out my options/rights/etc. Haven't been sleeping well at all the past few nights (plus I've woken w/a huge OUCH! crick/knot in my neck!) & am really pretty frightened from a financial standpoint. So, wish me luck

[Reincarnated]

J, the phone calls, no matter who or what put the idea in his head, sound very good! No one told him what to say or how to act while on the phone, and it all sounded pleasant :0)

About the L--it is a scary thing to get this part done, but you are doing the right thing. No matter what we may think, you have to protect yourself and your kids. We were already caught off guard once with the bomb; but this is too important to get blindsided by. Now, remember what the Ls are paid to do--some of it will seem overly harsh, but that is the way they are, what they get paid for. Get the info and rights you need to know, and take the rest with a grain of salt.

I'll be thinking about you today,
D

[stillme]

Tell me again why I haven't given up yet? What kind of person doesn't accept that a wall is a wall, and keeps hitting her head against it - thinking eventually she'll make a dent in the wall and not in her head?

Funny thing is that, tho I am heartily tired of this whole thing, I still cannot/willnot/am not ready to throw up my hands say, "Fine!" & walk away. Does that make me determined to save my R/M, or just plain stubborn myself?!

[Warning: Nomo, you'll want to bring out your slap-the-shet-outa-him hand again.)

Asked H today when he brought the kids to me & as he was opening his mail: "Can I ask you something?" and, pressing on despite his guarded "yeah", "What can I do to help the financial stress of the sitch?" His response: "What the hell is that supposed to mean?" "I mean, I know it's stressful, supporting 2 households, and I'm asking if there something I can do to ease it for right now." He huffs, squints, purses his lips, starts to say something in a angry-whisper then goes & closes D's nearby door (she was in there playing) & says, "You ask that NOW? You really think what you do NOW can make a diff?! You KNOW what you should be doing, but I'm not going to even say it b/c you won't do it." And so it goes for another 10 min or so (w/me remaining calm) & him saying things like (sarcastic), "You know I stress about money. I always have. And I will do whtever I need to. You don't worry about it." & "You want to take $100 in bills? Go ahead, but that won't be a drop in the bucket." (& goes on to tick off the amounts that he pays ea month). . . "I've been trying to get you for years to do what you should be doing." (We'd always talked about 'When D goes to K...' but I'd also been telling him for years that I don't want to go back to a FT legal secy position, tied to a desk, begging for time off to spend w/the family, putting the kids in daycare...), "I WON'T sell my boat. I won't do it." & "You want to save me money? Wash the damm dishes." (when I put my coffee cup in it) "You know how many times I've used my dishwasher? NONE!" I said, "Okay. I can do that." & he goes into (calmer) how I can get a less exp. internet service, and cut back on the tv cable ("cuz, really, how mich do the kids watch Noggin?") [Note: When he first moved out I said I was going to go back to the Basic Cable - HE was the one who "needed" the extended plan - and he told me not to b/c it included a few kid channels!), I can take over the (my) cellphone bill (this and the internet cable plans were tied into his work plans & didn't think I could change them). He'd already (2 wks ago in a 'nice' moment) thanked me for doing whatever I was doing to lower the elec. bill [w/him out of the house, I don't have to keep it like an icebox anymore!] So, there are things I can - and will - do, but not likely to either reduce his stress (He's right; he does like to stress) or have him consider me/the sitch any diff.

Before this convo. H made a statement about taking S to jj class this eve (It's "my" day), &, when I said I like to go watch him at class, he said in a I'm-not-trying-to-step-on-your-toes voice that he was going to be there anyway b/c he now helps coach/spot the boys' class; something about wanting to save [me] gas/money by driving there (but, o/c, did not say we could all drive there together, heaven forbid); and that it would actually save him time (not having to come by here after work & b/f jj class). So, we'll all be there togehter at 5. Yippee.

So, very tiring, very, very much the same angry position. Nothing I do is good, or good enough, or makes him even wobble his position on his high horse.

When he was done w/the convo (lol), he started walking down the hall to the door, stops & looks back at me w/the ol' squinty-eyed look & says "Do you have any OTHER questions for me?" "Umm, no." "Good!" He needs the last word but, lol, sorry I couldn't give it to him & said a cheery singsong like "Byyyyyeee!" (the "you big di*k" was an Understood - and I don't care if it's not DB-proper! He is one.)

[Reincarnated]

He11, Nomo is going to have to line up behind me to slap that man! wtf?

You did what you wanted to do, held your head high and took a risk. Even with the spew, don't think he won't notice you reaching out. I think that is what really gets them going, btw--how the LBS does not fit so neatly into their definition of what they left behind, how they HAD to go. By continuing to be who you are, a decent caring person, you make their head want to expode. How can he leave someone who is acting like you do? It doesn't make sense, and that pisses them off.

I know its been so hard with the treatment you have been getting. Only you can decide when enough is enough. But you should feel proud of yourself for risking this; all of us here can see it for what it is, and you know the intentions in your heart. But he subconsciously does, too.

{{{J}}}

[confuseddude]

wow...stillme...I'm speechless. why do you think he is so angry? I apologize if it has been addressed before. I know I got discouraged when I was met with negative memories, thoughts thrown my way by my XW. I tried to let them slide thinking the wall she has built up will have to come down if I keep chipping away a little at a time. Still waiting, but who knows.

[Nomopo]

still:

Well damn. You know what though. As I think about it a little, I would say it's unbelievablebut it isn't. If you had emailed us right before the convo and said here's what I am going to do/say (which, by the way, is what we all thought you should do/say because we discussed it here at length), then those of us who really thought about it and were honest would more likely than not have predicted this reaction. Don't you agree? We would have said, put your raincoat on because the spew is gonna come. Nonetheless, he is really something.

I guess beyond that I feel about like Donna:

Even with the spew, don't think he won't notice you reaching out. I think that is what really gets them going, btw--how the LBS does not fit so neatly into their definition of what they left behind, how they HAD to go. By continuing to be who you are, a decent caring person, you make their head want to expode.

I think you handled it perfectly, by the way. And at a minimum, you gave him something to think about. At the core of all this DBing, that's what this is about. Sowing seeds of doubt (at least while we are fighting the good fight). Now, just try to let it go and move forward (low profile, preferably dark) for the next few days.

Hang in there, and lots of hugs -- (((((J)))))

Nomopo

PS -- And I was so happy about your weekend reports. But, maybe it's two steps forward and (in your case) 1.9 steps back.

[stillme]

Cincy, he's angry b/c (in his thinking)
~I caused him to fall out of love w/me b/c I didn't love him
~I ruined his M, and am forcing him to do something he swore would never happen: D me
~I am the reason he will be living apart from his kids at least 50% of the time - but mostly
~I will be taking $ out of his pocket that I don't deserve (b/c of the aforementioned Bad Acts), and not only that, but
~I have failed & refused to keep to our "original agreement" that, when D started K, I would "go back to work" so we could afford - whatever he has been thinking of. In his mind, despite my saying otherwise for at least the past 3 yrs, that meant going back to a FT legal sec'y position. He has in his mind that I could earn X amount and now, if I'm not doing that & earning my 'potential', HE will have to pay me more than he 'should' or whta I actually deserve (again, going back to the aforementioned Failings of Mine). I am taking money out of his own pocket (or, as he says, out of the mouths of his children)
In his mind, it's all about the Money, when in actuality (according ot both my own C & DB Coach Laurie), he HAS TO make it all about the money to support his Position (that I'm Evil & hate-worthy & that he has no choice but to D one such as I) so as not to allow any thoughts of, possibly, HIS own failings or unwise or unworthy actions pre- or post-Bomb.

Yeah, that's a bit of venting, but mostly accurate. I'm tired of thinking - and there's thunderstorm starting - so I'll be off for a while. Will check in later tonight.

[confuseddude]

ok...got it...

[L21959]

Stillme --

I talked about that same topic with C today...how long to keep going with this... And for me, it still comes down to two major things;

1) My kids deserve both of us, anytime they want/need us, forever... (H will talk about how he can't bear the thought of not being with them; i can't bear the thought of them not being able to be with us). This is a primary motivating factor at this point;

2) Deep, deep down there is so much good, so much of our life and our story together that it's worth not giving up...

So for now, I'm still in there pitching... and i gather so are you.

Nothing deep; just wanted to give you a (( )) and say, hang in there...

L

[Reincarnated]

L--
That is EXACTLY what I am holding onto at this point!! Well said.
J, good vent. Sometimes it helps to write it out again; makes our subconscious stop beating ourselves up.

[SunnySeason]

Hi Still,

I'd like to say something helpful & positive. Can't b/c I'm off in the gutter w/you right now, & can't get it up for the good push.

You could just replace some of the words & your H is mine, just a tad less angry. Geez, what a bark though!

Back to watching the TIVO'd Sopranos & other shows I've missed for the last 6 wks. to do something different since I don't watch TV.

I'll be back later to check up on you & I do think you handled it well. Nomo's right, he is if anything, predictable.

Hang in there Sweetpea & remember(I'll be reminding myself), it's just a rough set of waves that's holding us under temporarily.

Best,
Sunny

[ItsKat]

(((still)))

You are the Queen Receiver of the Alien Spew. Probably not a title you ever wanted, but oh well. I think Nomopo is right in that this reaction should have been expected. You come to him asking how you can help, he comes back with every spewish reason you have caused all the trouble here. I am sorry you have to deal with this so often. You are a saint for not taking a frying pan to his head.

As for why you don't give up, I ask myself that a lot in my own sitch. But here is the thing for me-- I don't ever want to look back on this and be able to say that I didn't do everything I could have done to keep this marriage from ending. If I get so angry and hurt that I decide to file, then I didn't do everything I could have done. If I give into all of my hurt, angry emotions and lash out at H everytime I interact with him, then I didn't do everything I could have done. I am going to have to live with myself for the rest of my life and my kids are always going to be my kids. I wouldn't want to live with the guilt that I didn't do everything possible to keep my kids' family together.

Just 'cause you might need and extra one....(((still)))

[Nomopo]

Great post IK.

[stillme]

[deep breath] Okay, I'm back. Really. Literally & figuratively.

Yup, H's a Spewer of the First Order. It's actually (in an out-of-body kind of way) kind of interesting to hear what kind of garbage will come out of him next. Amazing. But - weirdly - yeah, predictable and - OMG! - understandable. (Did I just SAY that????)

Just as I think (now) that he's give up on our M; he won't try to fix it; won't look at his own actions/inactions as possibly wrong choices; and I don't believe *much* of wht he says (And, yeah, I know the term is "Nothing" H says, but I'm thinking there's some grains of truth or, better word?, honesty in that Spew) -- H, for longer than I know, felt I had given up on our M; I wouldn't try to fix [what he was telling me was wrong w/me]; I wouldn't look at my own actions/inactions, only pointing back at HIS; and he now KNOWS me as a liar (that whole "going back to work when D starts K" thing). . .So, yeah, understandable -- but still cr@ppy.

THANKS SO MUCH for all the {{{Hugs}}} and kind words. Y'all mean so much to me - and my sanity. Kat, your post was right-on exactly right! Thank you. And Sunny, I'm sending {{hugs}} back at ya. I'm sorry you're down in the dregs w/me right now. But ya know? As much as we are reeling from our H's anger & self-rigteous spew, the acid doesn't just affect us - & our H's must be - they've GOT to be - getting eaten alive by it themselves. I can hold out; can H?

[Reincarnated]

Glad to have you back :0)

And you are right--imagine the energy he has to put into being that angry all of the time. He must be exhausted!!

Woah, flashback:

I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say to me bounces off and sticks to you!!

Sorry, elementary teacher Donna showed up for a second!

Hang in, J...

[Nomopo]

Welcome back kid. That was a short trip!

[stillme]

And, oh yeah, I had the mtg w/L this morning! lol Here's a few legal highlights:

L was very nice, very thorough, gave me alot of info (most of it general to FL law or cases in gen'l) & talked very fast. Towards the end of our hour's time (She said the usual consult is 20 min.!) when I said something about the Fat Lady still being on the stage, she said she was happy to hear that and hopes I do whatever I can to salvage the "marital R" (which I liked, instead of just "M") & she even gave me the card of a C who has saved M's even after she (L) has filed the papers & are in the midst of the D. This C would even call my H & ask him to meet w/her to talk about what went wrong in our R (not, initially, anything about 'working on' the M). I tried not to waste the hour laughing - but I do have her card. I also told L about DB/Michelle/Solution-Based Therapy & she wrote the website down & seemed really excited to check it out.

Not to get into all the legalities, but L put my mind at ease more about how I think H may be thinking he can nullify child support by having the kids 50% of the time. (Note to anyone/everyone re this: It's 50% - or 146 NIGHTS - in the year. Doesn't matter if H p/u kids at 6am & returns them at 10pm. If they sleep at mom's, it doesn't count towards H's 146. She's represented H's who are all about this 'loophole' to get out of ch support and, while most H's like the idea/benefits of 50% time-share, it rarely happens o/c b/c of men's work schedules & the busy-ness of chidlren's lives. Judges know this, and rarely grant 50/50 joint custody any more b/c, at some point, they know it's going to crumble & the W (usually) will end up caring for the kids way more than 50% w/little or no increase in the $upport she needs to do so.

L recommends Mediation if at all poss. (She quoted some figure$ on Court trial D - ouch!!) & we talked some about the 'new' trend of Collaborative D - Tho she hasn't been certified as a CD L - yet, she can recommend some L's who are. Also, the first Mediation hrg will not be set b/f about 50-60 days after D is filed, and will prob take 3-5 mo. after that depending on the issues & time needed to compile (mostly financial) info & bring in experts on whatever issues as well to finalize. So, she encouraged me to keep 'working' on the M.

As "only" being M'd 12 yrs (next mo.), I am in the low end of the gray area according to the norm for FL divorce judge rulings (0-10yrs = Judges are not inclined to award alimony; 15+ yrs = Definate alimony), w/an All Or Nothing ruling option. We talked a bit about the specifics of my job issues. She also confirmed what I'd found out about legal sec'y positions/pay in our county - and H is in for a rude awakening.

She said to NOT make any decisions regarding the house YET. Do NOT in any way make it appear the house is as my "exclusive use" (don't change locks, take back the garage door opener...) b/c H's L (if smart) will argue that H is entitled to back mtg reimbursement from me durign our S.

She sees no prob. we me paying certain household bills; and encourages it if it will lessen tension in the R (to allow, at some point, reasonable efforts at negotiations btwn us).

Insted of "Custody", the (PC) terms are "Legal Decision makers", which are (in almost all/any circumstances) awarded to a H/W 50/50, and "Primary Residence" w/most judges saying that children reside primarily (more than 50% of the time) w/the mom (esp for children in the 'nurturing years').

Okay, that's all my notes and I can't remember anything more right now. She did say it is oftentimes advantageous to file for D myself rather than waiting around for H, but I repeated that I was ok w/the status quo - for now.

------------------

Saw H at jj class. I was definately DIM. I gave him a letter he got in the mail today (from his job, but shaped like an invitation) & when S asked what it was H seemed to be talking to me when he said it was a gift cert thank-you for something or other. I actually turned away to gather up D's things in prep for leaving, so I missed most of it. I also put 3 checks (facedown) in front of him w/a pen w/a (impersonal) "Would you sign these?". He says "What are they?", turns them over, sees they are from the ins. co. & says "Oh, the reimbursement for - " (and never says "C", lol), signs & I said "thank you" & that was that.

D, bless her heart, made comments (to me) about being so happy that H & I were in the same place together. I made sure to avoid even looking at him when he was on the mat w/the kids, tho I did overhear that he won Silver at the tournament, and he may/may not have seen the new goodlooking dad talking to me while his D & I pretended my D was a cat laying on my lap.

[SuperDad]

Stillme,
I just want to thank you for posting all of your experiences. It is such a help to see how you are taking all of this and still DBing your heart out.

I really was ready to completely give up a few days ago, but seeing how strong you are has given me hope that I can also be so strong during our separation.

(((Stillme)))

[oldtimer]

StillMe,

Did you agree together to postpone your return to full-time work?

[stillme]

It was not about postponing my return to fulltime work - I never disagreed that it should happen when D started K - but rather how much/what type of work I would do when I did return. WE did agree it was important I stay at home w/the kids when they were young, and did agree on the time of "when D started K" (Aug '06) as the return date.

[ItsKat]

Still-

Sounds like you found a great L. I am glad you set that meeting up and got some good info.

Sounding great, girl!

[ItsKat]

Here's an idea. Why don't you tell H that he needs to get a different job and that you are going to tell him what kind of job he needs to get. Being a former kindergarten teacher, I think that would be a great job for your H. He will feel right at home with all of the tantrum throwing that goes on there.

[stillme]

Some more details. . .

We have never really FOUGHT about the job issue. Ours were always the "We-don't-have-s*x-often-enough/You-don't-spend-any-time-with-me" type. For, literally, years! O/C I didn't 'hear' that he was saying anything other than we didn't do this certain action enough; and he didn't hear that I needed to know he thought me worth his time. . . When H dropped the Bomb, HIS friends wold tell me "You know what J wants, don't you?" and it had nothing to do w/getting a job, or making more money. While I know that it's a big part of his stressful life right now, he's definately re-writing history about the whole issue, and concentrating on THAT instead of anything else.
It's like arguing w/a child.

He wants me to go back to work in Aug. Ok. I'm thinking, literally, AUGUST: D starts school on August X. . .I can go on interviews while both kids are at school. . .I can look for the "perfect TW [one of my old bosses] job" as H would describe it & can take my time (as H has repeatedly encouraged!) until I find one that suits me/us best. It ws NOT all about the money!

However, b/c of the OTHER [no s*x/love] issues, he shuts down emotionally and is gone from me/the M/the kids even more than before. H decides he's "done", decides that D is the answer, - & this is in JULY! Tells me in Oct. IDLY; tells me in Nov. I'm leaving after the holidays.

H is close to making 3digits. He has stock options that, if purchased b/f the co. goes public this yr, will net him close to $100K and, w/i 5 yrs, will make him, as he says, a paper millionaire. There is a bigger picture here, and - not that it isn't stressful & tight right now - it could not have been solved if I'd gotten a FT legal sec'y job this yr, last yr, or 5 yrs ago.

[Reincarnated]

'nuff said.

I wonder if WAS really hear the kids at all when they bring up things like your D did--I tend to think not, by and large. Selective hearing.

Your L sounded very good, and you got the info you needed. Glad you waited on the house decision, and the locks. My L actually steered me away from mediation, because if it comes to a stalemate, Ls from both sides need to be "released" and you have to start all over again--more $$. Mine also encouraged me to file first, file now, but I am still holding that option waaaay in the wings. Got the paperwork, though, and am still plugging away at the financials.

I was glad to hear about the custody / nights per year thing--I will have to check that with my state, too.

Hope that you rest easy after getting the info.

[C_K]

Looks like you got a great Lawyer , are you going to give the C a try?

I liked the bit about arguing with a child , my W would resort to childish behaviour rather than discuss the truth .
Remember when dealing with the WAS , believe none of what they say and 1/2 of what they do .

Take care

[stillme]

A (pathetic) part of me was thinking "Oh, this new C would be GREAT to see w/H [if/when...] b/c H surely won't want to see BS [MY current C] & will want a start-from-scratch C."

So, no I won't be calling her, I don't think. At least not right now. I hate the thought of starting all over again, telling the whole Sorry Story again, bringing a new C up to speed & rehashing all the (bleh) issues. I like my current C; she's given me some really good insights & suggestions (tho they have yet to work on my stubborn H, lol).

L did say that H's just LOVE this (new) C; and they seem to really connect w/her. . .L said that C spent very little time delving back into childhood/parent-child issues& described C's approach to counselling as very Solution-Based (tho not using those words herself). Maybe. . . someday. . .

Take care yourself.
It's past midnight. I'm off to bed.
'night.

[Nomopo]

As for why you don't give up, I ask myself that a lot in my own sitch. But here is the thing for me-- I don't ever want to look back on this and be able to say that I didn't do everything I could have done to keep this marriage from ending. If I get so angry and hurt that I decide to file, then I didn't do everything I could have done. If I give into all of my hurt, angry emotions and lash out at H everytime I interact with him, then I didn't do everything I could have done. I am going to have to live with myself for the rest of my life and my kids are always going to be my kids. I wouldn't want to live with the guilt that I didn't do everything possible to keep my kids' family together.

I know i said this before, but I love this post IK. I'm going to steal this for my plan, ok?

And, yeah, I know the term is "Nothing" H says, but I'm thinking there's some grains of truth or, better word?, honesty in that Spew)

It's not that alien spew isn't partially true or somewhat honest. Heck it might be all true. It might be all false. The point is, what the WAS says is unreliable. You can't tell what they mean and what they don't. Yeah, you're right, you can pick out some parts as their "truth," and some parts as just so absurd they have to know it. But the point is, all in all it's so unreliable that the only rule you can logically apply is "don't believe anything you hear, . . . ."

BTW, I think you can spell out "cr@ppy." That's not even really a cuss word.

Thanks for sharing the L info. Very useful for all of us. You made her sound nice, but she is a L, right???

So hubby won a Silver at his jj tourney, huh? I'm curious, is he a big man? And more importantly, which knee is the fragi . . . I mean, rehabilitated knee? I hope it's the left, because I am right handed and it's harder for me to get my limited edition, autographed Tonya Harding TH6000 lead pipe all the way around to the right knee.

Why don't you tell H that he needs to get a different job and that you are going to tell him what kind of job he needs to get.

I like the fire Kat!

There is a bigger picture here, and - not that it isn't stressful & tight right now - it could not have been solved if I'd gotten a FT legal sec'y job this yr, last yr, or 5 yrs ago.

Bingo. Money may be making him really mad now, but there is some revisionist history going on. (And I guess the whole "kicking" him out, really was off base. I was just noodling out loud, really. He is so so so EMOTIONAL for a WAS (mine just seems dead/detached/automatic), I couldn't understand it. Still can't really.

BTW, paper millionaires can become "real" millionaires after enough time passes and if things break right.

[Nomopo]

C sounds great. Hope y'all get to use her. G'night, and sweet dreams.

Nomopo

[Reincarnated]

Nomo, when you say you hope things break right, were you referring to your Tonya Harding limited edition again?

Thanks for the giggle! My H is pretty big, 6'2", about 240...used to wrestle in high school. Has a bad right wrist and lower back, in case it comes down to it ;0)

[stillme]

Well, heck, there you go posting & I can't go to sleep w/o answering tonight! Besides you made me lol! So --

It's not that alien spew isn't partially true or somewhat honest. Heck it might be all true. It might be all false. The point is, what the WAS says is unreliable. You can't tell what they mean and what they don't. Yeah, you're right, you can pick out some parts as their "truth," and some parts as just so absurd they have to know it. But the point is, all in all it's so unreliable that the only rule you can logically apply is "don't believe anything you hear, . . . ." Yeah, true.

BTW, I think you can spell out "cr@ppy." That's not even really a cuss word. In our house a slipped-in "crap" IS mommy's potty mouth word & the kids call me on it. Funny how I didn't even catch that I did that.

Thanks for sharing the L info. Very useful for all of us. You made her sound nice, but she is a L, right???[/color] What do you mean? Some of my best friends ARE L's! And, if it weren't for the dang long hours & no life thing, I'd prolly like being a L myself. (Recently remembered that a career-day whatchacallit [what you'd be good at] test [yeah, it's really late & I'm really tired, lol] - APTITUDE - test said I'd be a good JUDGE. LOL! Skip right past Go. . .

[color:#33CC00]So hubby won a Silver at his jj tourney, huh? I'm curious, is he a big man? And more importantly, which knee is the fragi . . . I mean, rehabilitated knee? I hope it's the left, because I am right handed and it's harder for me to get my limited edition, autographed Tonya Harding TH6000 lead pipe all the way around to the right knee. 6'2" hard-body 195/205 (down to about 180 tho I'm thinking), but you're in luck. It IS his left knee! Ya want to know Mean? When he was laid up on the couch just days after surgery & 2 wks post Bomb, ice packs & pain meds at his side, I had visions of stealing away w/all his Morphine & Codeine AND the remote AND his cellphone! Yep, Evil. That's me.

[stillme]

Oops, posted too soon.

Originally Posted By: stillme
There is a bigger picture here, and - not that it isn't stressful & tight right now - it could not have been solved if I'd gotten a FT legal sec'y job this yr, last yr, or 5 yrs ago.

Bingo. Money may be making him really mad now, but there is some revisionist history going on. (And I guess the whole "kicking" him out, really was off base. I was just noodling out loud, really. He is so so so EMOTIONAL for a WAS (mine just seems dead/detached/automatic), I couldn't understand it. Still can't really.[/quote] Yep, again. He's using the money issue to support his D-decision position. I think he's also been listening to some ugliness from a (newly D'd) friend and from his own bro whose W (last I heard) was filing for D (Now, SHE's probably gone the Evil route re: money). And I forgot to respond about the 'moving out' possibility of why H's angry. Maybe. . . to a SANE person, but it really didn't fit w/H. Like I said, he WANTED/NEEDED to move out on his own (never lived by himself before really; felt he gave up his single yrs to be M'd, blah blah) & was quite friendly still just before & just after move-out day. About the emotions - my H was stone-cold unemotional for the first prolly almost 60 days. He said his piece, told me his decision & walked out of the room when I cried. So, he's gone from heart-to-heart crying (him, too) talks, to friendly/buddies w/ occasional benefits, to hard-core anger about money. What's next?

BTW, paper millionaires can become "real" millionaires after enough time passes and if things break right. Yeah, I'm wondering if this is a factor in his decision-firmness as well. Will have to make sure all bases regarding this is covered . . .if & when.

'kay. I cross-eyed & I AM going to bed now. Got 3 classes to teach tomorrow & need my energy/beauty sleep.

[Nomopo]

My H is pretty big, 6'2", about 240...used to wrestle in high school. Has a bad right wrist and lower back, in case it comes down to it ;0)

Ahhh, the classic overuse wrist injury, huh? I had a wrestler rommmate in college, and I found the way to handle those guys is to hit in hard over the head when they ain't looking. Did I mention I fight dirty?

still: I could so see you as a Judge. Judge J or Judge Still - both have nice rings. And are you saying I don't have a life? I'm here aren't I?

6'2" hard-body 195/205 (down to about 180 tho I'm thinking), but you're in luck. It IS his left knee!

Hard body. Sheesh. Like a give a rat's @ss about that. Is his skull thicker than the average man's? Oh yeah, it probably is.

Ya want to know Mean? When he was laid up on the couch just days after surgery & 2 wks post Bomb, ice packs & pain meds at his side, I had visions of stealing away w/all his Morphine & Codeine AND the remote AND his cellphone! Yep, Evil. That's me.

LOVE IT!!!!

So, he's gone from heart-to-heart crying (him, too) talks, to friendly/buddies w/ occasional benefits, to hard-core anger about money. What's next?

Not sure if it is next, but eventually I would say he will get to crying like a baby begging you to (a) take him back and (b) call off that mean man from Texas who keeps kicking him in the @ss.

Nomopo!

[stillme]

[SunnySeason]

Thanks for morning booast guys, but really Nomo, now that you have all this freedom, I just know you're gunna go crazy w/ posting & get zero zzzzzzzzzzz's! Pace yourself...we need you!

A thought I had @ 2 am. & Nomo had @ no telling....The WAS, in this case Still's hard skulled H, doesn't ever expect you to lose interest in them. Kinda like the mentality w/ a teenager thinking they're immortal. That's why it's such a shock to their system if you give any indication you are, you're starting to, or ta da.....interested in someone else! This is an insider secret from a reformed, recovering WAW!

So, my prediction is the begging for you back.

Better run to school,

Sunny

[Nomopo]

Still: What are these "occsasional benefits" you speak of? I don't get it. (Get it!?!? )

The WAS doesn't ever expect you to lose interest in them. Kinda like the mentality w/ a teenager thinking they're immortal. That's why it's such a shock to their system if you give any indication you are, you're starting to, or ta da.....interested in someone else! This is an insider secret from a reformed, recovering WAW!

I love this stuff Sunny. Keep it coming. I think I really have to go there. It may just push my W out altogether, but what have I got to lose? The hard part is, it doesn't feel right to me. I am committed, so that is part of it, and it's scary not knowing how she'll react.

Nomopo

PS -- Sunny, where is your thread?

[stillme]

Love your Insider Secrets, Sunny! I've been hearing the ol' You need to make him see/think he's losing you to someone else line for months now (from well-meaning friends - even H's friends!, family etc) but, like you N, just can't seem to "go there" with it. Certainly not mentally, and even hard physically (like w/even the noticing men, or looking at them as anything more than (sorry-ugh huh?) friends. It's very alien. Ha!

I've even had the crazy idea of asking this studly dad at D's ballet to pretend-interest in me (I wouldn't be seriously interested in him cuz he was the last guy my friend A dated b/f her 'bf problem guy', and, well, I know some inside info that makes me go 'ewww', lol.) Hmm, maybe I should look for a 1-800 Gigilo-for-Hire number?

[Nomopo]

I play your Gig, I mean BF if you'll come to Texas to play my GF!

[L21959]

And we all remember how well that turned out in "Looking for Mr. Goodbar!"

L

[Nomopo]

Didn't see them movie, but I'm guessing it was bad.

[Reincarnated]

Kindergarten teacher goes out and lives in the fast lane at night, dates a gigilo (Richard Gere), and ends up raped and murdered by a homosexual who hates being one. Very uplifting.

[L21959]

Oops...
Guess that movie reference dates me as a "closer-to-50-than-40" type! But you're just a youngster Donna...

L

[Nomopo]

Yeah, not uplifting. Forget I suggested it. I thought maybe the Gig part could qualify as GALing.

[sunshine74]

Stillme:

Hi. Could you possibly look at my thread when you have time. I need some advice regarding H. Don't know really what to do, thought maybe you could tell me what you think.

Thanks,
Sunshine74

P.S. Don't know how to link it here...but its under "need some sunshine"

[Nomopo]

You really did stay away all day. How'd you do that???

[stillme]

Dang busy GALing. lol!

Taught a 9:30 P.class, then home to clean a little, do a little paper/computer work (Tried to change the Sprint bill, but it's in H's name & he has it pass-coded, so i need his permission...) Made lunch for the kids, made cookies w/D, H came over to say 'bye' to the kids (Miami thru, I think, Fri.) I stayed busy w/the cookies but, funny, when both kids were w/him at the door, he CALLS OUT (to me?!) "Okay, bye!" and either 'I'll talk to you soon' or 'I'll see you soon' or something - don't know, cuz I was still stuck on the IS HE TALKING TO ME?! bit. I think it was just the ghost of a How It Used To Be, and I think he realized it even as he said it. But weird, nonetheless.

After a(nother) thunderstorm, we went out to do errands - bank, grocery, ballet studio . . . Picked up lunch for my friend A & brought it to her office (in thanks for a favor). Yippee, me: The ballet studio owner wants me to do 4 1-hr Pilates workshops on one day during Dance Workshop wk in Aug! She also wants me to teach a Summer class and, depending on coordinating both our schedules, continue at least once a wk after dance resume late-Aug!!! Also got a call from someone I'd met last wk who wants to set up a class of 4 in her home for, to start, 4 wks! My private P.session chick said she's been working on her 2 friends to do sessions w/me (both are dr's) &, now that private-session chick is getting complimented on "losing weight" (altho Not - it's toning & tightening mostly), they're trying to work out a schedule w/me. . . Whoo-the-heck-hooo, huh?

Oh, ran home w/salad for me at 4; took a 1/2-hr semi-nap on the couch while kids watched some home-design show (yeah, they're weird), then to the gym to teach private-session chick at 6 & sub a 7:30 class. Then to Asian Bistro or some such to meet up w/friend (A) who (th3e favor) had picked up my kids from the gym earlier & was at dinner w/them there.

Finally home, put the kids to be at nearly 10pm and here I am (w/a few cookies), to get my DB fix.

Oh, friend (A) wants me to be her personal assistant (Seems I'm a bit more organized than she, lol) - What a great chick.

[SuperDad]

Wow still, that is a heck of a day! Pass me some of that energy and PMA. I will need it if I am to make my insane Wed. workout schedule (starts at 5 am!). Guess I should get some sleep.
SD

[Reincarnated]

Wow--you had a great day, and some great news. Yay, you :0)

Its good to get away from here sometimes, isn't it?

Hope you get a good night's sleep....and many more days like today!

[Nomopo]

Does sound like a great day J. Keep up the PMA!

[shoeprincess]

great energy! Like was said above

keep up the PMA!!!

[stillme]

Gee, it's lonely back there on pg 3 . . . So, enough about y'all, let's talk about me!

Seriously, tho - Still (yay) Detached & Dim (helped by H being away again), way BUSY GALing & focusing on me.

A few noteworthy things to post tho:

Took kids to their (3rd) C session. As we drive there, I say "We're going to see Miss B. She wants to see what y'all have been thinking & feeling lately & whether your head & your stomach are the same or different. [At the end of first visit, kids giggled as C poked D's stomach & tapped S's head & said they'd been having problems [headaches, stomachaches].) You want to think about what you can talk about w/her?" D said, "I don't know" and S said, "Yeah, I don't know either." (right!) So, they spend the first 45 min. w/her alone, nd then S calls me into the office & C says they'd been talking & she coaches D to tell me what she's (D) been saying. . . D wants me to call her during the day when she's w/H so that, when it's time for bed, she's not missing me too much & can then go to sleep. (Note: C - privately - said it's important [at least to MY D] that the calls be made in the day & NOT right b/f bedtime as that would only reinforce her missing me at that time. Good note, I thought.) I had purposely NOT been calling at night for this very reason, tho it didn't prevent D from crying sometimes and (b/c, well, for obvious reasons) she didn't feel able to tell H that she missed me and/or wanted/needed to talk to me, and she had only 1 time called me crying. (Don't know
if H encouraged her to call, or S [the caretaker] did [he was hugging her when she called; H was making smoothies]. I was SO trying to not 'get in the way' of H's time w/the kids . . . And I had always told them they could call me any time if they wanted to or if they needed to. . . But they never did (and this was why the calls last wkend [GA trip] were significant. I think it's part of H's feelings but I need to think more of the kids.

So - just that morning when D was telling me about missing me & wanting to come home from GA early, I remembered a book we had read earlier in the year called The Kissing Hand where, on the first day of K, Mama Racoon places a kiss in the center of Little Racoon's hand (then folds up his fingers into a fist) and Little Racoon could open that hand & press the kiss to his cheek to feel his Mama's love any time he wanted. We had done that for K, but we did that again the other morning (2 kisses, 2 hands!) for anytime we are apart from each other.

Anyway, this just shows another instance where the kids can't/won't/don't have the words to tell me what they want/need or are feeling/thinking. . .and another reason supporting C'ing for the kids - whether my H (or your S) thinks the kids are "just fine".

Kids & C also talked about them keeping 1 special lovey or cuddly (D's pink baby blanket & S's stuffed white seal - This from a 9-yr old boy!) to take back & forth w/them when they are at H's or at 'home'.

I have an appt w/C next Wed & expect to talk in more detail about the kids then. Tho I did give her to short & sweet version of H's reaction to my 'ease the financial stress' offer. She just clicks her tongue & shakes her head, and I think: "Yeah, I know. Tell me about it!"

[ItsKat]

Hey, still.

Thanks for sharing about the kids C session. I am glad you are keeping up with that despite your H's discouragement. It is really sad how our kids are going through such turmoil, but they don't have the maturity to express exactly what it is they are going through. It must be so frustrating for them.

I read the Kissing Hand every year on the first day when I taught kindergarten. I will have to dig that one out for S4. Thanks for the reminder.

[SunnySeason]

Welp, I can always count on Stillsweetpea to start things out by making me smile.

I seriously don't know how you have time to fit your own sitch in, & address so many others, so well

I haven't gotten to the separation from the kids yet (this wkend I guess), but will keep all in mind, including the Kissing Hand.

Lot's of good ideas, you're a wonderful mom Still!

ttfn,

Sunny

[L21959]

Still --

Great post...and the info about the kids is good advice for any age. I especially like your C's advice about being in touch away from bedtime...when we get to that point, i think that's going to be big with S11.

Early on in this round, my H mentioned being willing to go to C together to talk about how to answer questions kids will likely have (this whole thing kills me even more because we've put them through this once before...) But nothing since then; S17 has recently started some C to work on food/anxiety issues,so I'm hoping he's developing a relationship with a C to work with, but I think S11 will want/need help too. Your insights really reinforce that...thank you.

I'm going to post in the next few days some things i've been doing to SHOW H what i think of him...i'll ask you to stop by when I do. in the meantime, thanks for your support!

L

[Nomopo]

it didn't prevent D from crying sometimes and (b/c, well, for obvious reasons) she didn't feel able to tell H that she missed me and/or wanted/needed to talk to me

Man, this really made me remember what our CP said about kids not being ready/able/comfortable creating space and opportunity for the kids to talk, exoress feeling and fears, etc. I really need to keep my focus on that. I don't expect my W (or most WAS) to do that, because that opens the kids up to saying, or suggests, that the kids are having problems/difficulties as a result of the S (or as my W might say, puts problems in their heads that were never there).

Kissing hand, we love that book.

Thanks for the update and info still,
Nomopo

[stillme]

Welp, I can always count on Stillsweetpea to start things out by making me smile.

Sunny, are you calling me names?

[JustDontKnow]

How about sweetme? That one seems to match too.

[stillme]

I know, N. It's been 3 mo now since H moved out, and he has NEVER by one word indicted that the kids are anyting but "just fine" w/the sitch. Last wk he told me D was asking if he or I would be marrying someone else, and that she seemed excited to think about maybe getting a stepsister. . .He thinks its a Positive that "the kids never tell me they are unhappy" or "they act fine" w/him. When D told me she'd cried at H's apt & he held her, put her into his bed & lay down w/her until she fell asleep, she told me she "forgot" she could call me if she was sad or missing me and - even to ME - couldn't/wouldn't say anything other than she was said b/c she was missing her comforter. . . Oh, yeah, they are doing fine - and H is going to do his dambest to convince (and be convinced of) it.

So now we have a crisis b/c D's pink baby blanket is AWOL! Last I remember, she took it w/her when we were on the road Monday (I think). OMG!!

So, I'm just popping in to read (lurk) for now. Got an impromptu slumber-party going on w/S & 2 boys (other 2 friends left about 40 min ago) and, since about 5 calls to D's friends couldn't produce a girl to come sleep over, I am D's BFF for tonight. She's taken a bubble bath in my tub, wants to have a pillow fight & then read her new library books b/f going to sleep - Oh, and I have to sleep on the trundle bed in her room tonight just like a "real" friend would. lol

And, oh yeah, H called earlier to talk to the kids and ask me if it was ok if he didn't p/u the kids (his wkend thru Tues) until late afternoon tomorrow. We talked, pretty businesslike but not unfriendly, and he ended it w/ "Okay, then, I'll p/u the kids tomorrow. . . Later". (I guess the "dude" was implied - .)

Ok. Pillow-fight time.
Will be back later.

[Nomopo]

Hang in there Still. And give D a hug for me.

Hey! I am working on my Plan! (it's really a modified list. )

[stillme]

No, no. I meant this (from Sunny): "Welp, I can always count on..."

Nomo, your Plan wouldn/t be, uh, short by any chance would it?

[Nomopo]

It's about 3 pp. right now. 10 point font. It's really more of a summary of DR, with my personal; stuff (goals, strategies mixed in). I want to be able to review it frequently. I also feel better when I have my hands around a solid, well thought out, complete plan.

Actually, I am a little nervous to put it out there. What do you think?

[L21959]

Are you kidding???? (only slightly joking...) You have quite the bunch of groupies you know (wink, wink...it's really the couple of glasses of wine talking from my fun evening with friends, you know! BUt what the heck!)

Seriously, as you can tell from your own thread and from comments on others', a lot of us feel that you have a lot to offer by way of your own analysis and comments...count me as one who much appreciates your contributions.

SO post away mr. nomopo.....

L

[Nomopo]

mmmmm . . wine sounds good right now. Where's home again? Oklahoma is popping in my head. Is that right?

[L21959]

I'm living on Tulsa time....

[L21959]

I'm livin' on Tulsa time as a matter of fact....

[Nomopo]

That's what I thought. An okie! But I nice one, I suppose.

[L21959]

Oops...double posting on Still's thread while she's off engaging in some crazy chick pillow fight....oh yea, the other "chick" is 6!

[L21959]

Oh, living here for 20 years does in no way make me an Okie...my kids, perhaps. But in truth, I'm a Virginian, born and bred...H (who's from the upper midwest originally) has always teased me about my inordinate pride in my origins...

[Nomopo]

Whew! I feel better.

[stillme]

Well, heck, I thought you were saying you felt better that you'd finally published your manu- uh PLAN! Went all the way thru your thread to catch up, and - nope - you're just chatting away on my thread. So, if y'all are done talking, let me post some more about Me.

Found out @ Dr. appt today Ive got an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism) which means my thyroid isn't producing enough thyroid hormones, causing a general & progressive 'slowing down' of my body's functions. I don't think most of the Symptoms really apply (except particularly the 'feeling tired' one, but, hmmm, that could be caused by, oh, Other Things, lol) but what was interesting was that one of the SYMPTOMS of Hypothyroidism is Depression and, conversely, one of the symptoms of Depression is a messed-up thyroid (hypo- or hyper-)! Can't win, I guess. So, I get a Rx filled tomorrow; we mess w/the dosage to get it right; and pop a pill for the rest of my life. As the dr. said: It's not good news; but it's not bad news either.

We also talked about why I didn't take the anti-D's prescribed by his partner's - and he agreed w/me about my reasons (not feeling depressed) & feelings about meds in gen'l. (He did agree that, in general, our bodies/minds will resolve a depressive state all on their own [depression from a death gradually fades; depression from losing a job - same thing - esp. if we -- Hey, sound familiar? -- get out & DO things, act as if we want to get better, stop focusing on [the death, the lost job, etc.]) and, while in the deepest part of the depression, meds are useful to 'even out' the emotions & allow us to function w/o feeling overwhelmed by thoughts, emotions. I told him that if I'd been offered a A/D rx in Jan., I would have filled a candy jar w/the things & been quite happy. Now - not so much.


Sooooo, N:

It's about 3 pp. right now. 10 point font. It's really more of a summary of DR, with my personal; stuff (goals, strategies mixed in). I want to be able to review it frequently. I also feel better when I have my hands around a solid, well thought out, complete plan.
Actually, I am a little nervous to put it out there. What do you think?

I think it will be amazing & insightful & very very useful to everyone, not the least of which is you. (Gee, am I focused on myself a bit TOO much, ya think?) Seriously, I would love to form a plan around my sitch. Sometimes I just can't see my own forest. . . ya know?

And I think you have been extremely helpful & giving of your time, thoughts & insights of others' sitchs in your analysis-posts, esp. the last few days. Cheers to you [*glass raised*]. You'll be the DB-Hero! (Shoot, should we just start a dang Fan Club for ourselves?)

[Reincarnated]

I think we already have ;0)

Still, hope the sleepover goes great! And the info from the C about the kids was very insightful. My H does the same thing about saying the kids are "doing fine." Says I am coddling them.

Last night, both S & D asked to sleep in my bed with me again (at separate times). I coaxed them into their own rooms. The night before, S came in about 9:30 and said he couldn't sleep (went into my bed), and D showed up sometime in the overnight with a bad dream.
Last night, S shows up sometime in the overnight--he had wet his bed! The boy is about to turn 12!!! He hasn't had an accident in YEARS!! But they are just fine, right?
H saw him in the bed with me again this morning and asked what was up--I told him, but I don't think it registered. When S went to bed tonight, he laid out a sleeping bag on his floor--H asked him why, and made the poor kid tell him again! Even with the bed stripped, he doesn't want to sleep there until I can get a new mattress pad (in the plans for tomorrow).

Sorry to highjack a bit (I'm going to copy this to my thread, too, before I forget).

Hope that your little ones rest well tonight.

[Nomopo]

Good Morning!!! PMA is great today!!!!! You???

[stillme]

PMA's great!

Killin' time b/f girlie & I go to the mall. She wants some girl-pajama pants like I wore last night, and S needs more shorts. (Seems the ones he has all end up at daddy's house, so I'm gonna stock up.) Actually waiting for a guy I just 'met' in WalMart to come by. I overheard him (in the F'Day card aisle) on his cell saying he was gonna buy a VCR for someone; and I said that I had one sitting in the garage (obsolete since we bought the kids a tv/dvd/vcr combo thing last yr). So for $25, it's win-win. (And part of my 180's by being more outgoing & not ignoring the rest of the world.)

Took 2 boys home at 11, chatted w/their mom for a while. Oh, before that 2 of the moms of D's friends who we'd called for sleepover last night called back, and now D has 2 'dates' for next wk - plus I spent a while on the phone w/one mom b/c it turns out she is D'd & she had an interesting take on the S-thing: When she got to a WAW stage, she told her H she needed to S for a while to think about the M/R. She was thinking it was a good thing (After all, her parents had S'd for 6 mo. when she was 10yr old, they realized they wanted to work on the M, did, and have stayed M ever since!), but her H got angry, ASSumed it could only end in D, filed first &, bingo, it was over in just a few months. She still regrets it, and says there were things she never got to say to him. Interesting.

Oh, kids got black wooden picture frames (a 3-framed one & a single 5x7) for H, plus cute cards. We came home, put things away, wrapped the presents, had lunch and now S is at a friend's & as soon as WM guy comes for the VCR, D & I are off to the mall. H (Did I say he called yest.?) is working until at least mid-aft. & will p/u kids then. Hopefully, I'll have time to run to cellphone store & cable place to revise our plans . . . If not then, then Mon. Oh, also got to go fill that rx.

Plans to have lunch/play/swim w/(another)friend & her 2 boys got cancelled last min., but that turns out okay. Her 3yr old launched from the bed into the closet & tore a gash in his leg on the metal floor door-track piece. But now this friend & I are going out to lunch etc tomorrow w/a friend of hers sans kids (whoo-hoo!) after the in-house jiu jitsu tournament the boys will do from 9-noon.

Yeah, PMA is up, and another busy day.

[Nomopo]

PMA may be up, but I'm exhausted just reading about your days.

Actually waiting for a guy I just 'met' in WalMart to come by.

Don't forget that you are still committed (and I don't mean like in an instituion).

she had an interesting take on the S-thing: When she got to a WAW stage, she told her H she needed to S for a while to think about the M/R. She was thinking it was a good thing (After all, her parents had S'd for 6 mo. when she was 10yr old, they realized they wanted to work on the M, did, and have stayed M ever since!), but her H got angry, ASSumed it could only end in D, filed first &, bingo, it was over in just a few months. She still regrets it, and says there were things she never got to say to him. Interesting.

Very interesting. Wouldn't it just be easier if they would tell us what they were thinking. But, seriously, that should give us all hope. Not that our WASs are necessarily thinking like that, but they could be. Thanks for sharing.

Nomopo

[stillme]

[big sigh] Can't wait until bedtime. I'm (to use my British friend's word) fashed.

WalMart guy came by for VCR - Turns out he was buying it for a handicapped friend. Made me feel even better I spoke up. He was very chatty - talked about moving back to area after being in NC (I think), asked what Pilates was (saw my car sign), said he did Akido (ph) (martial arts), asked if I knew a massage therapist in my 'line of work' & would I call him if I came up w/a name . . . After he left, I had a lightbulb moment & thought: "Was that. . .?!" - Guess my M-blinders are still firmly in place. LOL. I did not even notice if he wore a ring or not. I swear! And, as my Dominican BFF's mom would say "No es feo." (ph) So, yeah, I'm still committed, N. No worries.

Did the mall w/D - Bumped into acquaintance mom/kids I haven't seen in 6-7 mo., got caught up, exchanged cards. She wants to get a Pilates class going w/her friends/coworkers at the country club/med.facility she works at! Yay!. Dropped of the rx, got the cable taken care of, then the cellphone place, ran to ballet studio to p/u D's recital book, back to the pharmacy. While waiting there, I get a call from someone who saw my car/Pilates sign and SHE wants to take private sessions! Yay, again! Finally got home. H called just after 5pm saying he still had about 2 hrs work & could I feed the kids; made supper (tacos & leftovers), cleaned the kitchen, & now S is watching Angels in the Outfield (he likes the 'classics') & D is sitting on her swimgset pretending to make calls on my cell "like a teenager" (do they have an eye-rolling smiley face?) & waving at me thru my office window. Friend A called & asked if I wanted to meet at our fav. Scandanavian bakery/rest. w/another friend for dinner. When I told her I'd already eaten & still had the kids, she said to bring them over to swim if H was going to be much later, but I'm not budging. I hear my bed calling me early tonight. (Oh, yeah, I did end up sleeping in D's room last night - she even gave me her "Princess bed" & she took the trundle. But stil . . .)

So, journaling re: the kids -
While we were driving, I brought up D's request that I call ehr when she was w/H - asking if she wnted me to call EVERY day she was away. She said, "If you WANT to." Me: "I thought you told Miss.B you wanted me to call you. I just want to know if you want me to call you every day or only some days." "I don't know. I don't miss you every day." "Okay, how about this. If I see you that day - at home or at jiu jitsu or something - I won't call you; or if you call ME, I won't call you - but if I don't see you or talk to you, then I'll call in the afternoon, okay?" "Okay. If you want to." (Try reasoning w/a 6yr old.) Then, about 15 min. later, after she had talked about pets (H has said both she & S could get pets when he has his new house.) D asked, "Mom when are you & dad going to be living together again?" Said H&I don't act mad at each other on the phone anymore, and besides her friend's mom & dad got D'd & now they love each other again & are back together. (Actually, they were S'd for over a yr, and recently got back together - moving to Alaska to get away from family influences.) So we talked and I tried to ride the fine line btwn giving her false hope (sheesh), saying anything that might put H in a bad light, & reassuring her that H & I were working on being nicer to each other (1/2 a white lie) w/o taking it any further. Very tricky, but I think it went okay. Funny how she didn't seem to want to talk at all when I brought up the phone calls/at H's apt thing, but then had all kinds of questions about M & S & why we don't get along. . . Whew! Makes me wonder how H would have (has?) handled that same convo.

So, I'm off for a while. Hope everyone's doign well.

[Nomopo]

Great post J. And good journaling. Your P business is booming! And you did a good job with D's questions. It is a very fine line, but you handled with skill.

Nomopo

[SuperDad]

J,
You are the queen of everything! (and Nomo is the king) I am taking so many mental notes for when the kids find out that we are separating. Thanks so much for posting so many details, I have no idea how you find the time.

Have a great weekend,
SD

[stillme]

You are the queen of everything!

SD, how did you know?! When I'm messing w/the kids (a/o trying to make a Mommy-point) I make them call me "Mother, Queen of the Universe". LOL. D does it; S not so much, but it always gets a laugh out of them.

I have no idea how you find the time.

I type fast; and I don't sleep. Actually, I'm finally back to sleeping pretty much thru the night most nights. Feel like a newborn AND it's new parents all at the same time!

Okay, more stuff re: kids & H:

H came by about 8pm to p/u the kids. Now HE looks fashed! (He drove 4.5hrs up from Miami & went straight in to [local] wk.) I'd been debating w/not to talk to him about what the C had said about the kid stuff - Was it pressure? Whould he see it as Control that I've taken them to see her again? Did I want to deal w/another Talk? Would it be more of making him out to be the Bad Guy? How should I word it so it doesn't go bad (as 98% of our convos lately have)? ???

In the end, D brought it up by waving her pink blanket (YAY - it was found yesterday!!), saying how she was sad that it was lost for 2 days, & that it has to come "to your apt & then back to mommy's house" w/her. H just said, "Oh, okay, baby." and when D skipped off to outside, I told H the kids had seen the C the other day - He interrupted: "Again??" I said "Yes" and started to tell him about how I was called in the office after 45 min. & the C encouraged D to tell me wht D had said to C (that D missed me when she was at H's apt, etc.) In the middle of my sentece, H squints his eyes looking over my head and says (not loudly but w/emphasis like a bad taste in his mouth) "Did you PAINT D's room?!" I stop probably mid-word, tilt my head to the side, pause and say simply/calmly "No." After a pause, H says, "I'm sorry. Go on." and I continue. I tried not to be confrontational or blaming, but H still said (and this is all calm-voiced and pretty quietly) "Do the kids say they miss ME when they are w/you?" "No, not unless you're traveling for a while -", H (interrupting) "Do you know how that makes me feel?! Me: "- but then you're good about calling them when you're away." H: "Do you ask them if they want to call me? Me: Yes, you know there've been lots of times I call & say 'The kids were just missing you', or 'the kids wanted to say good morning' or 'S or D just said or did something...". He said that he made it a point to call when he was away, and felt guilty when he wasn't able to do it EVERY nigth he was away. (I was thinking: We're not even talking about the same thing, and he's turned it around to all about HIM again.) I told him I was talking about the kids missing me on the days they were w/him & that I'd been not calling b/c I didn't want to get in the way of HIS time w/them but I realize that it wasn't a good thing for them at all. That that I learned that D cried at night for me or she couldn't sleep, but that I wasn't even called & I didn't even know about it until C told me. He said something about how HE was doing the best he could. . .I said "I know, but D wants me to call when she's w/you, so that's what I'm going to do." Also said that the calls would be during the day, & explained why. He nodded, said "Okay".

I also told him about the C helping the kids choose a special thing to take to his apt & back, and that for D it was her pink blanket and S would have his white seal here and a blanket H had bought him at the apt. H said, "Yeah. The Softest Blanket In The World" (like it was a title, or how S described it.) S brought it home once. It's a huge brown chenille-y thing, and VERY soft. So, the convo was not bad; & hopefully good.

Oh, when H asked if the kids had talked about anything else w/C I said how, tho D wouldn't usually talk when I asked her a ques. about how she was feeling or the sitch in gen'l, she'd bring up out-of-the-blue questions like - and I told him she'd asked today about when he & I were going to be living together again & I told him that she said (her friend) A's parents were D'd and now they love each other & live togehter again. He wanted to know what I told her, and I said that I tried to be vague but talked about how we needed to be apart b/c we weren't being nice to each other & we needed to figure out how to be nice again. I said "I don't know what you told them [kids] about why you're not living here, so I didn't know how to answer except that way." He said "I haven't told them anything. They can't understand, so there's no reason to try to explain it to them." I said "Okay." and I think that was the end of that talk.

On the financial side of things: H dropped his check onto the counter & I saw that it was $100 less than normal. (Remember he said, during my ease-the-financial-stress offer something about me taking on $100 of the bills, or him paying $100 less, and "You want to do that? Fine! But know it's a drop in the bucket. . .!!!" He saw me glance at it on the counter. Thinks he's waiting for me to say something about the figure? See if I was serious about my 'offer'/willingness to help/180??

Ok, think there was more I wanted to journal, but can't think of it now. . . Maybe it'll come to me.

[Nomopo]

Please go see Sunny now! I'm on blackberry, and I'm worried about her.

Thanks,
Andy

[ItsKat]

Still-

All I can say right now is that your H is a piece of work.

OK, I can also say that I am always impressed with how well you handle such a piece of work.

[stillme]

OK, I'm now LOLing about this:

In the middle of my sentece, H squints his eyes looking over my head and says (not loudly but w/emphasis like a bad taste in his mouth) "Did you PAINT D's room?!"

OBVIOUSLY, my many & varied GAL & 180's have been noted & now H has no idea what to expect next! He wouldn't have put it past me to paint D's bedroom b/c - even tho he hasn't said Word One about 99% of them, he has NOTICED
-the new curtains & the rod I hung (w/help) over the bare living room sliding glass doors (He said it made the room look smaller; I said it looked cozy, lol)
-the chandelier I hung in the Master Bath (I'd bought it a few yrs ago; he didn't like it & we fussed about that stupid thing until I couldn't stand the sight of it. THEN he hung it.) Now it's up in MY bath.
-the flowers I planted in our bare-since-we-moved-here front garden (HE had to be involved in the planning/execution, but never had the time)
-my new red lipstick, trendy clothes, sexy look & happy w/myself attitiude
-my so-very-busy life; I'm hardly ever home (or usually coming or going when he calls/comes by). Does he wonder what I get up to w/friend (A) [the 34yr old beautiful, together SINGLE chick I introduced to him once]
-the various pictures, framed photos of me/kids, vases of flowers, furniture moved around, beach lounger on the patio (working on the tan I've never had) things done w/o his opinion, input or by-your-leave!

Yeah, he's gotta be thinking: What will she do next?