Is it too late after doing EVERYTHING wrong?

[NotAgainPlease]

Well as far as my H is concerned we are divorced. We finalized our agreement and tells people I am his EX-W. H has been seeing the OW again. He told me today to just quit we are NEVER going to get back together and H will never love me again. I know do believe him. It's a little hard not to. H wants to be friends but that's. I really am very sad because I have lost my friend.
No more sex either. I could tell in his voice before he told me that H was back with OW. I was mean & short with me.
I think its time to give up and move on. I love him terribly but "you can't make a heart love somebody" George Strait.
I am not good at this whole thing and I have been pushing him form away for 5 months. I wish I would have been stronger. All I can do now is go dark? I really have no hope though. Not a good attitude to have. How many people does this DGing really work to get back your spouse?

[Nomopo]

Sorry to hear that. If you don't want to give up, don't. But it does sound like a LRT (what you call going dark) is what toi do if you still want to try. I'd review that in DR if I were you, and there is a forum on it here with info and resources. I wouldn't put any stock in what he says. He may be telling the truth, but there is plenty of evidence of WAS's saying things that later turn out to be untrue. Even severe thigs like you described.

I now do believe him. It's a little hard not to.

It may be hard, but just don't think about it. You cannot control him or what he says. What sre you going to do now. The LRT would be (1) back off, stay away (eg, going dark sort of but I might be open if he does come around or call) and (2) Getting a Life. That will be best for you regardless of whether it saves your M and it will give you the best (only?) shot at saving your M. So why not. Focus on the part about how it is for you and helping you, and just be open to a reconciliation if he ever comes back.

I think its time to give up and move on.

That is your right.

I love him terribly but "you can't make a heart love somebody" George Strait.

That's true. You can't. Doesn't mean you can't be the person you want to be, and that he won't change his mind. He might and he might not. Focus on you.

I am not good at this whole thing and I have been pushing him form away for 5 months. I wish I would have been stronger.

You are right where all the rest of us are. Don't beat yourself up. And if you don't quit, then pick yourself up and keep moving forward Dbing.

I really have no hope though. Not a good attitude to have.

You can't fail if you don't give up. As long as you're trying you haven't failed, right? Agreed, you need a PMA (but what you feel is normal).

How many people does this DGing really work to get back your spouse?

I have no idea. Go read some of the success stories. Maybe they will give you a reason to try.

I am so sorry.

Hugs,
Nomopo

[NotAgainPlease]

Nomopo,

Thank you for your support. I guess since I have been through this before I am discouraged. I didn't know about DBing then. I know I need to keep going especially for my beautiful kids. It's just so hard when he is so hateful to me. I am working on GAL.
We just got in an argument because he says the kids are learning to be like pigs because I am.. Nice. I told him he could help. H didn't want to talk about it and I said since I had full custody and H left I guess it is my way.

I think I am just in a really bad mood now- PMS :(. Lovely Northern CA 100* last two days doesn't help. Along with our "non divorce" D being final.
I also feel its going to be tough to do LRT with the kids but I am going to try. Maybe it's so hard for me because that's what he wants. I will never know unless I try. Tomorrows a new day and I'm going there or bust!
Thanks again,
S

[Soxfan2008]

LRT with kids isn't all that hard or different than without.

When H comes to pick up the kids be in another room, or be doing laundry or dishes-- if he talks just say short sweet responses- even yes or no and nothing else. If you drop them off, let them walk to the door themselves, when they are with you, then you do things without H and you don't call to invite him along, if H asks you to do things, say you have plans then go out and do something. Don't elaborate on your plans, just have something to do.

When H had the kids and he called me, I didn't answer. I let it go to voicemail. If my child called (they have their own phones) I answered.

Of course it's what he wants- or thinks it is. MY H the same. He moved out, I took his name off all the utilites and I had him taken off my car insurance- and I had the company call him to tell him! I gave him the choice of paying me every month to stay on my health plan or me taking him off, I called my retirement and got info, I found out how to change my name back to my maiden name, I found out how to have him waive his rights to part of my retirement... He started talking about the divorce and I made sure to tell him to add part of what I found out.... He wanted it, so he was going to get it- 100%. NO waivering... no let's do lunch tomorrow. Heck no. You want a divorce buddy, you're gonna get it and know how it feels to be without me. Plus you're gonna get to watch me go out and have fun on my own when you have the kids!! I packed up all his stuff and when he came to get the kids he had a box to take too. Then I bought new furniture and rearranged the house!

He asks you to a movie, say nope- already saw it it- you'll like it. Dinner? already ate.

[NotAgainPlease]

Sox,

Thank you so much for the support. I'm starting today! H will be picking up the kids for Father's day weekend. I knw if is me that has been holding back on this for fear. You'd think iI'd learn but I don't. It's time to do it because it may be too late but if I continue the pathe I have been on it will be over forever. Unfotunetly the kids are 7 (twins) they don't have their own phone yet. But I can have them LM and call back.
How is your sitch working out? Are any of your techniques.
working?
I have read Micheles book at least 5 times its time to impliment the information!!

S

[Nomopo]

You can do a LRT the Dark way or you can do a LRT without going Dark. And you can do it with lots of shades of Gray in between. Just be aware there are different approaches. You will find stories where going Dark doesn't work and may backfire. And, of course, there are stories where it is exactly what the doctor ordered. I just want to make sure you are thinking about what will likely be most effective for you.

And, yes, "its time to impliment the information!!" Do you keep a solutions journal? For example, you should really record all the details about your argument today and study it. Your H was being an @ss, but when you said "since I had full custody and H left I guess it is my way," did that bring yu closer to your goal or father away. Did it create a positive memory/moment for H or a negative? I don't know the answers, but study it! Learn from it! I would suggest that maybe your emotions took over, and you lost sight of your plan, your goals of changing your behavior so that your H feels closer to you. And by the way, "your being right" and "his being wrong" has got nothing to do with it. We're interested in results; not blame.

Make sense?

Nomopo

[NotAgainPlease]

Nomopo,

You Im are so right. I made a bad choice and it will not bring me closer to my goal. I am starting a journal and writing thing down.

Here is my latest issue. I'm really not sure what to do. I really think my H wants to be friends and talk at times, even though he is starting it up again with OW. He wants to talk about the kids and non meaningfull stuff. I feel my brain is mush. As many times I've read DR you'd think I'd know but NO! I don't know if I should try and be friends and risk me blowing up or just stop talking to him all together. H really tries hard to be friendly with me even when we have a blow out. H keeps telling me he wants us to get along. The devil on my shoulder says screw you I don't want to be your friend if I can't be your wife. But I really haven't given that chance. H says we can talk about anything but OR or OW. Which is what I'm supposed top do.
Maybe I should do a little of both friendly and talk but not always be available to talk. That's hard when he hasn't wanted to really talk and now he does I don't want to stop. I have been pretty successful about ending the conversation first.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you

[Nomopo]

Hi NAP! Good post. Good food for thought. Glad to see you are analyzing. It's the SSS! Let me offer some thoughts, if you don't mind.

I am starting a journal and writing thing down.

I think this is excellent. It has really helped me. I told someone else today that I do two things. I journal in excrutiating detail almost all of my contact with W. (Check out my threads and look for my posts where I say journaling to get a sense for one way to do it.) This allows me to collect the data of our interactions while it is fresh in my head. I can then analyze it (at that time or much later) to see what works with my W to bring us closer, to create good feelings/positive experiences and what doesn't. I also built a Solutions Journal based on pp. 102-03 of DR. This is where I record difficult or other noteworthy exchanges with W, and note what worked and what didn't.

I really think my H wants to be friends and talk at times, even though he is starting it up again with OW. He wants to talk about the kids and non meaningfull stuff.

Forget the part about OW. You can't do anything about that. I know if conjures up emotions, but get past those because emotions are going to help you bust this divorce. Now, ignoring that last clause, do you realize how GREAT this is? Your H, a WAS, wants to be friends and talk at times!!! And he wans to talk about your kids and meaningless stuff! BTW, it isn't really meaningless. Talk about the garden, the news, a TV show, whatever, and you and your H are connecting - building postive experiences! That's what this is all about. Re-read Michele's article about Time Together. YOUR H IS ASKING YOU FOR TIME TOGETHER!!! This is very positive, don't you think?

I feel my brain is mush.

Clear your head, re-charge your batteries, and seize this opportunity. It can't be that hard to have light, fun, non-R talks with him, can it?

I don't know if I should try and be friends and risk me blowing up or just stop talking to him all together.

I think the answer is clear, but you just need to manage your emotions. Prepare yourself to do that. You know that while he decides, you aren't going to get your needs met. Accept that. Put them on the back burner. And you know this is going to take a long time (patience) and that he needs space so you won't have any R talks. Given all that, yes you can be his friend and connect emotionally by talking about light stuff. Focus on the problem free times you had togther before - wasn't it like this?

H really tries hard to be friendly with me even when we have a blow out. H keeps telling me he wants us to get along.

More positives! Smell the roses girl!

The devil on my shoulder says screw you I don't want to be your friend if I can't be your wife.

Do you know what this is? This is your emotions taking on a life of themselves. You are hurt, angry, bitter (at some level). We all are. And now those emotions are interfering with your implementation of strategies to save your M. You have a chance to try to be friendly with him. Try it, see if it works for a few weeks. Monitor results. Think about what "first signs" you'll be looking for. The SCARY thing is, you need to seize this opportunity now because we could all face a time where our WAS doesn't want to be friends, and then the window will be shut. Just ask some of the other posters on here.

One other thing, and don't let your angry, hurt, sad, bitter emotions answer this question. Imagine yourself down the road, a few years after a divorce from H. It's over. What kind of relationship would you like to have with the father of your kids? A hostile, non-friendly one, where you still resent him for the mistakes he made? Or would you rather (1) have forgiven him for his mistakes so you can be happy, (2) have him be happy and (3) be friends with him so you can both be the best parents to your kids. Who wants to waste time and energy not being friends with someone? Who wants to waste life on that? We all have to get control of our emotions! It is very hard, but one of the (if not the) most important things for us to do.

But I really haven't given that chance.

Good for you. Being honest with yourself. So, you don't know if this button will work. Push it for a while and see. You can always change strategies later if it doesn't work.

H says we can talk about anything but OR or OW.

Fine. What do you want to discuss about it anyway? You know all you need to know on that. You can't control him or her on this issue, so let it go? If and when there is something about OR or OW he wants to tell you or discuss, he'll bring it up. (At that point, just listen. Really.)

Maybe I should do a little of both friendly and talk but not always be available to talk. That's hard when he hasn't wanted to really talk and now he does I don't want to stop. I have been pretty successful about ending the conversation first.

Good that you let conversations end (eg, don't work to lengthen or prolong them). But, beyond that, how would you not be available to talk? Tell him something like, "oh, can we wait until this show is over" or "can I finish this article/chapter first"? Just wondering how you would do that without it making it look like you were distancing.

Hope it helps,
Nomopo

[NotAgainPlease]

Nomo,

You always have such encouraging posts for me. Thank you so much. I will be implementing the great info you give.
I was just confused about his being friends. If I wasn't so stubborn and listened to his clues I would be a lot farther??
H was moving and I said I felt bad the I was in a nice house and he was living in a trailer. I said he could stay in a room here but I know you'd rather die first. H said I'm not ready to do that yet. H has said that on several occasions in the past 5 mos. I just usually don't think much about it since he says he will NEVER come back later.. So I try not to think of either of them.
I am just going to be his friend if it kills me and be mysterious as well. Not always available or stay on the phone too long. The one thing I have to stop doing is doing for him. I am always volunteering to do things for him but most are rejected. Some aren't but I think I need to stop that but still be friendly.
H came over this AM for a few minutes and picked up a trailer and even unloaded the hay for me. Looking back on the last 5 months H really has tried to be nice. I have been so hurt and angry I have been a real B**ch. It has felt better to be like that then be nice. I was confused by H being nice, in my head what does it mean, what is H thinking, I need to stop and go with the flow. Most of the time I am my worst enemy. No more! I am going down a new path and what ever happens happens. But I know will do my best this time.
When I heard he was back with the OW I really wasn't jealous of her I was more upset about losing H friendship. I know if nothing else comes out of this I don't want to lose that for myself and especially my kids.
Thanks again and Happy Fathers Day!
S

[NotAgainPlease]

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