Is it too late after doing EVERYTHING wrong?

[NotAgainPlease]

Hi,
I am new here. My H left in January after several big fights during Christmas & January. We have been married for 8 years in July and together 12 years. We have 2 children age 7 boy/girl twins. My husband is 11 years younger than me.

H left and I did everything wrong and continued it until about a week ago. Begging,pleading, lecturing, kids etc. H had an emotional affair 3 years ago for about 2 mos. We went to Mexico in Oct and had a great time. First (extended)time away without kids since they were born. I have bad PMS and I usually start a fight about the same stupid thing every month. About 2-3 times a year we threaten divorce. After out fight in January he left and I thought he would be back the next day. He always did. Boy was I wrong. He moved out and has been gone since. He was having another emotional affair with one of my friends who new he was thinking about leaving. She was going through a divorce herself. They were commiserating??? Three months after leaving he met some one who he was dating but denied it the whole time. He left his phone at my house and I found texts saying he loved her. The whole time he was telling me he didn't love me bla bla bla and wanted a divorce. We have been fighting ugly for the past 5 months with some good times mixed in. While he was with OW he was still coming to me for sex because he said he would not sleep with her until we were married????? When he has been drinking he would tell me you don't know that we cant work it out and he loved me. The next day he would say I shouldn't believe hem when drinking. He has since broken it off with OW. Said it was too much drama because of me.
H filed for divorce 1 month ago. We were also going to counseling where he was lying about OW. He said it didn't matter we were only there to learn how to communicate for the kids not to get back together. Which he says will NEVER happen.
We are currently working on an agreement to stop the divorce for 3 years for financial reasons. H seems to be more willing now that OW is gone.
We do things together as a family at times with the kids. This is so hard for them and I hate to see it.

I have read DB 5 times and ready to go but is it too late?

I was married in my 20's for 5 years 13 years together and my husband left me for someone else. This is my H first marriage. I desperately want this one to work. Sorry this is so long.
Thank you,
Sally

[Nomopo]

Hi Sally. Welcome, and I'm glad you found this site. A big hug to you from Texas. There are great people and there is great support here. Also, I'm very sorry about your sitch and sorry you have to be here.

is it too late?

There is absolutely no way to know that. I think there is hope in your story, and I heard positives in what you said. But, there is lot to be worried about as well, and my guess is it will take longer than you would like and a lot of patience on your part.

But don't ask if it is too late? It might be, but it might not be. Ask instead what YOU want. Focus on what you can do and you can control, and start implementing your DB plan.

Keep posting,
Nomopo

[NotAgainPlease]

Nomopo,

Thank you for your response. I plan on going forward. I have been positive, happy and nice to my H. Which is a big turnaround from before. I plan to continue it. I am a little confused about if I should be in contact with him or try to distance myself from H. He comes over often to see kids. I used to stay around now I try to stay away. From day one he has asked for space and to live him alone. He says I just can't do it. As for IT it means talking about R as well.
Patience is probably the hardest thing I need to learn!

[Nomopo]

I am a little confused about if I should be in contact with him or try to distance myself from H.

My instincts are that you should not initiate any contact unless there is something you HAVE to discuss (e.g., kids exchange, other kid issue, maybe a financial issue), but be sure you HAVE to discuss it. You don't have to go out of your way to avoid being near him when he comes over, just be relaxed, doing your thing, pleasant. Have a PMA and start becoming the person you want to be. If he is going to be attracted to you again, it will be to that person, not someone lonely, hurting, clingy, pursuing, desperate, cold/mean/nasty, etc.

Patience is probably the hardest thing I need to learn!

True for all of us.

Also, do you have Divorce Remedy? I can't remember. If not, get and read it now. [Edit; reviewed your initial post, and see you have read the book. Ok. JenJam's list is just a summary reminder.]

Below is an excerpt of a post that JenJam gave another newcomer a few weeks ago. I think it is an excellent summary of the DB principles.

Good luck,and keep posting,
Nomopo

Excerpt of JenJam post to sadsadwife, on "The inevitable separation" thread.

I will suggest getting "The Divorce Remedy" and reading it cover to cover. I've posted in below as well (and I don't want to appear big headed here!!!) what worked for me as a start for you - it's mostly a rehash of the DR book anyway, just to keep you going until you get the book.

Hope to see you back soon - take care of yourself
=============================================

OK, also wanted to post what worked for me - most of it will be a rehash of DR, but I thought I'd put it here as a real world example.
JenJam's Top Ten DB Tips:

1. Don't panic. No-one ever made a great decision when in panic. You WILL panic, it's natural, but take NO ACTION when you are in that state. You have to do whatever it takes to calm down before you can tackle ANYTHING.

2. Don't depair. No-one ever got divorced in a week. Divorce, although too easy these days still take time. you DO have time to turn things about.

3. You first step is not to rebuild your R. Of course it's your ultimate aim but it's not going to happen first. Your very first step is to put the seed of doubt in WAS's mind. They have been unhappy and they consider D to be the answer. It's your job to show them that maybe there is an alternative. And I stress show. There is little you can do to talk them out of this beyond sympathising with their unhappiness and saying that IF D will make them happy then you won't stand in their way. If they are receptive to that, you could go further and say something like "we have had many good times together. Please think about this and make sure it really will make you happy. It's a lot to throw away".

4. Once you have said this back off and let them consider it. They need time. Your next step is GAL - no begging, crying or anger AT ALL. Your task is now part 2 of sowing the seeds of doubt about D - SHOWING WAS that things can be different. Now is the time to step back, put aside your ego and all thoughts of how unfair it all is (that just leads to bitterness, which is poison to a M) and REALLY look at yourself and decide if you are worthy of being WAS's spouse. I agree a M breakdown is rarely one sided but at this juncture it's more useful to look at your contribution. Look at yourself. Under a microscope. Decide if you've changed - are you happy with yourself, for you? Make changes. Now is the time for 180's. This stage also takes a long time too.

5. Time, time, time - it really IS on your side. The situation will not resolve as quickly as you hope. Don't compare your situation in terms of time with others'. It's very tempting to say "well, their situation is similar to mine and it took them 6 months so it will take me 6 months". Each situation is unique and needs its own timeframe.

6. Set your goals and decide on your first signs. This part took me a couple of months to really "get". I had to REALLY read chapter 6 of DR from "I'm discouraged" then go and review my goals before I saw any results.

7. Develop a duck's back - water slides off it. Patience + lack of panic = success.

8. Set goals for yourself as well as the R. Decide on what you want to achieve for you alone and reward your success. I know this sounds like step 4 again but it's more a case of making the changes rather than lamenting how awful you are. (I felt awful about myself for some time - bad and guilty. I did me no favours whatsoever, ended up with me feeling resentment. Much better to look forward than back - as Michelle says, look for solutions and take action)

9. Keep in mind that your actions could be frightening to WAS - you are not reacting in the way they wanted. They had this D all mapped out in their head and it's not panning out the way they thought. This has the added benefit that it leads them to think "if this isn't going the way I planned then maybe it isn't right", but it will take them a LONG TIME to come to this conclusion, to let go of their D comfort blanket. You can help them by being consistent with the positive changes. If you revert back to the you they find unacceptable then they feel perfectly justified in continuing with the D.

10. This is going to be tough on you. In the ideal world, couples in crisis would sit down together and negotiate together and accept that change was possible. In reality, you are very unlikely to resolve your problem in this way, almost certianly not in the early stages. You are not giong to have the luxury of a spouse who will listen to you and accept what you say.
You are going to be in extreme pain. You have to find something to soothe this. To have your WAS would work like a shot, but you ain't going to get this in a hurry. Do whatever it takes to comfort yourself - write a diary, see friends, go places, take the kids out if you have them, take exercise - anything. Your aim is to find something which makes you say "well, the rest of my life may be turning to sh*t but at least this part of it's OK". It acts as a time out for you and relieves the stress.

OK - as I said this is what worked for me - if you're reading this then maybe it's different for you. If you're readin this and thinknig your own sitch is impossible think of this - would you give yourself false hope right now? Chances are you wouldn't. So why give yourself false despair? There are layers in a M crisis and you don't get the benefit of seeing them all at once.

[NotAgainPlease]

Thank you again for putting so much effort into your replies. It is much appreciated. I have been trying to look busy when my H comes to see the kids. We live on 3 acres and have 4 horses so there is always something I can do. When we have phone contact I really try to make sure I am the first to say goodbye. I can see (hear) that it is noticed. Sometimes there is silence and some times he keeps talking. I let him talk if he wants then try to stop the call if I can. I am trying to be very careful about the conversation to be about the kids or house issues.
My kids try to get me to go with them to what ever event they are doing with my H, like movies or whatever. I used to go because he said it was fine. I know say no thank you I have plans.
My H recently told me that if he met me again he would not date me. I am not what he wants in a person. I guess it took him 12 years to figure this out. H said he has been unhappy for the last 6 years. I guess since the kids were born. He can't stand the mess in the house with clutter and stuff for the kids. That is why he left he said. I just can't keep the house decluttered and it has sent him over the edge. Our counselor tried to get more out of that but he said that was it, he didn't love me any more and we have nothing in common. ????
I know in my heart we can reslove our issues but he doesn't see it. I just have to hang in there and keep workint the system.

Thanks again,
S

[Nomopo]

My H recently told me that if he met me again he would not date me. I am not what he wants in a person. I guess it took him 12 years to figure this out.

Please do not "believe anything they say." You know this rule, right? Look, it might be true. But it might not. The point is, there is some stuff going on with your WAS and you simply cannot accept what he says as gospel truth. You also can't assume it is false. Just don't worry about it. Let it slide off your back. In one ear, out the other. (I KNOW its hurts. I have heard VERY HURTFUL things. Just let it go, and ignore it the best you can. It is not worth the energy/effort.)

H said he has been unhappy for the last 6 years. I guess since the kids were born.

Again, you CANNOT put stock in what they say. My W started therapy saying she was unhappy for two years, in later sessions it became three, then four, then six then eight!!! We'd been married nine, for crying out loud. It is revisionist history. They are trying to justify to themselves what they are feeling and what they are doing.

He can't stand the mess in the house with clutter and stuff for the kids. That is why he left he said. I just can't keep the house decluttered and it has sent him over the edge.

I don't really know what to make of that. It blows my mind. I guess I am going to be a little un-PC here or insensitive to him, but . . . why the hell doesn't he de-clutter it then? Or get a maid? Or a personal assistant? I work a full-time job as a partner in a national law firm and I'm the one in my house who keeps it de-cluttered, so I don't care how hard his job is. But the point I am trying to make to you is even if this is something you need to work on and be better at (maybe it is), this is also something he has an "issue" with and I hope you do not just blame yourself and beat yourself up on this. Maybe you could have done something better, maybe there is a lesson for you to learn, but this is the silliest reason to get a D that I have ever heard. I'm sorry.

Our counselor tried to get more out of that but he said that was it, he didn't love me any more and we have nothing in common. ????

I assume the "he" is your H, right? Again, believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see.

I know in my heart we can reslove our issues but he doesn't see it.

And he probably won't for a long time, if ever. But he might.

I just have to hang in there and keep working the system.

Yep.

Nomopo

[NotAgainPlease]

I agree with the length of time my H was unhappy. I laughed when you said your W made it longer and longer. My H too.

I do know the saying about only believing nothing of what you hear. I have been trying to do that.



As far as my H cleaning or decluttering I AGREE!!! So did the C. He said it was my stuff and he didn't need to and he tried to get me to do it for years.... We used to have a housekeeper but wne I had my kids I let her go (dumb me) because I felt guilty becasue I was staying home. I should have kept her, twins aren't that easy :). My husband works away from the house and I work from home. Big mistake because he feels I should be able to take care of the kids, house, animals and be a Realtor...I wish I was really Super Woman. This has been one of the on going fights.

S

[NotAgainPlease]

I don't want to make it sound that my H was all to blame for our problems. I have not been happy all the time either. We chose to bring our children into this world and believe they deserve to be happy and in a complete family. We should try whatever it takes to make our marraige happy. H doesn't think you should have to work hard at it. He should just have sparks all the time when he is with me. I am not always the easiest person to live with either. I can nag!
We used to do a lot more things together before kids. Since we have had them we rarely do things alone. I am sure that is true with most. We should have made a better effort to do this and maybe we wouldn't be in this sitch?? But we are and just have to proceed.

[Nomopo]

I don't want to make it sound that my H was all to blame for our problems.

Nor do I. That would be a huge mistake. I still want to shake your Husband and say "what are you thinking?" Anyway, I think I am pretty well past the blame game, and that is important. If you haven't read it (or don't remember it), see: Michele's article

[NotAgainPlease]

Yes, I have. That is me & my H. He feels it's all my problem and I won't change. He has no faith in that he says he has tried to get me to do it for years...I have to admit I probably am the woman who hits her H with whatever is bugging her that day as soon as he walks in the door. All I can do is do what Michele says and change myself and hopefully he will see and follow. I just need to stick to my plan and hope he see it if not I'll be better for H #3 :). I wish I would have learned it after H1.. Oh well I know now.