Quote: We have become a culture that is dependent on drugs to alter everything about ourselves that we do not want to change on our own.
So true! And the worst thing about it is that it can go both ways. If we accept that low desire is a "sexual dysfunction" that needs a chemical "fix", then maybe HIGH desire is ALSO a "sexual dysfunction" that ALSO needs a chemical "fix". Where does it end? So for instance, if HD points this out to his W, and by implication says that there is "something wrong" with her that needs to be "fixed", then she is QUITE justified in turning it around and suggesting that maybe there's something wrong with HIM that needs fixing. How about them apples?
Whereas if we accept that low desire is a NORMAL and NATURAL part of the dynamics and harmonics of a NORMAL long-term committed relationship, something that can be EXPECTED to occur, and that the "fix" for it is working through issues with the RELATIONSHIP, it takes on a completely different aspect. If Schnarch is right, and I think he REALLY is, then what a message of hope - EVERYONE has it within them to find the happiness they desire, without spending goodles of money on drugs! Of course, the pharmacutical industry doesn't want to hear something like that...
I sure appreciate how Team SSM has banded together to help each other. I wonder how you'll respond when she says that the reason you are "buying into" the male view of the world (that women are here to satisfy men's urges) is because you are "unenlightened."
Quote: I wonder how you'll respond when she says that the reason you are "buying into" the male view of the world (that women are here to satisfy men's urges) is because you are "unenlightened."
With pity for the poor thing, of course! Am I right that that is the ONE THING that would just drive her INSANE??
Quote: Men are SUPPOSED to be horny. it has to be really tough on both partners when they're not. Locker room talk, TV, everything tells men that the should be horny all the time. You couldn't help but feel that there was something wrong with you if you weren't.
And a W with a ND/LDH couldn't help but question herself. ALL men want sex. Ergo, MY H must want sex. He doesn't. Do it MUST be that he doesn't want sex with me. Wow. Wildebube
You know what's really hard? Watching TV and a commercial comes on that sexy, romantic, etc. --- you get the idea. I find it hard to believe that nothing turns my husband on. There's never a comment (as one would expect) about this or that woman looking nice/sexy/hot, etc. I've never seen him oogle another woman, either. It's almost as if he's a eunuch.
I don't consider myself to be HD. I consider myself to be Normal Desire. Once every other week would be great.
In the beginning, sex was good and once or twice a week. Over time, it has dwindled to nothing. And yes, I'm enabling him to continue in this way because I no longer force the issue. Or even mention it.
I don't think that makes me bad. I don't think it means that I don't care enough for my marriage to try and work things out. Especially after trying and being rejected so many times in the past.
As much as I would LOVE it if H was horny at any time (!), it ain't gonna happen.
Hairdog, That is elementary, my friend. I would respond by telling her that I am not buying into the notion that I am here for men's pleasure--it is MY pleasure I am seeking.
And it is! She is most likely the type of person who sees easily and quickly through bullsh*t and she will know within minutes of the discussion that I don't pander to my man or put his needs above my own. Sex is as much about my own pleasure (and seeking it out and placing a demand on HIM, something that is prolly right up her alley) as his. It has been that way throughout all of my sexual relationships. I don't ever remember having a relationship with someone where the sexual part felt all about "them" and was something that I was doing out of obligation. What a weird and foreign thought that would be to me!
So that would be my response to her. That the truly unenlightened woman is the one who rejects her own sexuality, simply to punish men for the sins of their fathers.
Quote: HEY everyone...here's a link to that drug that supposedly increases female sex drive.
Interesting article. I know men have Viagra, but that only solves part of the problem. In order for it to work, the male has to actually have desire for the female.
I know that H's Ex did a number on him, but I'm not exactly sure what it was. I have a sneaking suspicion that she may have verbally emasculated him and I have absolutely no idea how to counter it other than showing my desire for him and assuring him that he and his lovemaking are terrific. Unfortunately, none of this has worked.
Sometimes I wish a pixie would come by at night and sprinkle "Horny Dust" on him.
Since this is sort of turning into a thread on the parameters of human desire, I couldn't help but say that the major sex studies (Kinsey mainly) and their derivative studies seem to show that
1) Lesbian couples have far less frequent orgasmic sex than gay men.
2) Heterosexual couples are in the middle.
Which has been interpreted broadly (by feminists and fundamentalists alike) as: men generally have more sex drive than women.
That being said, it is clear that the two curves (for men and women) overlap. A very low drive male could easily have less drive than a moderately high drive female. But still, the cultural stereotype is probably based in something.
I cite the fact that several of the women here have posted some successes in arousing their LDH's, just this week, whereas there seem to be quite a few men who have gone for years unable to arouse their seemingly unarousable wives.
I teach a course in gender & sexuality, albeit only once every couple of years. Still, my perception is that there really and truly are asexual or naturally celibate people - a category of folk that perhaps needs its own advocacy group. It is probably as hard, in our culture, to "come out" as a totally non-sexual person as it is in some subcultures to come out as gay.
Some of you are married to natural celibates, I think. I find there are more women in this group (there are various criteria for figuring this out, but being revulsed by sex in all its forms would be an extreme version).
Anyway, I am a relatively high drive female. I never knew this about myself, and I'm not indiscriminate. Only a very particular male turns me on (I'm so monogamous). But, like Honeypot, I'm married to someone who is lower drive than me. Women like honeypot and I DO exist.
My beloved H, however, is quasi-aware of this, and while he doesn't always calculate the frequency of sex properly, it seems he is in fact interested in making sure I'm not too unhappy. As an aside, his libido waxes and wanes, and one big factor is WORK. When he is devalued at work his SD wanes. So I am not saying drive is COMPLETELY biological. It's obviously also psychological.
But I can easily see how a woman with lower drive, whose husband ALWAYS has higher drive - no matter what she might experience - would believe that no HDW's exist at all. It's just too counter to her own experience.
I hate to be really picky and specific, but I'm wondering how many of these LDW's had a dry spell (perhaps after pregnancy - during pregnancy, many women are very horny, afterward, the same women are often LD for awhile) - and their husbands were not able to respond quickly/well enough (from their pov). Downward spiral from there?
