HIgh Levels of Acceptance

[psluke]

That's the way it looks from the outside also!!!!!!!

Awesome!!!!!!!! Wonderful!!!! Fantabulous!!!!

My personal take on the thing with OW is if you felt you could ask him he probably couldn't tell you, as he probably doesn't really know himself. I'm guessing you know but hoping you follow me here.

[minnie1]

Hi Sage,

it's also that I wrote a post for someone in Infidelity that had me revisiting so much stuff -- and just reminded me how I still wish I understood more about what happened, and why.

I read it and it was very powerful. I felt/feel so many of the things that you described.

So...what the heck is my psyche trying to say?

My ASSumption -- that there WAS in fact no practical, rational reason for the time period when h was involved with ow. That the stuff he said to me then, his behavior toward me, towards us, in the midst of the EA was akin to him leaving over blue cheese...just as weird and senseless and irrational.

Excellent interpretation! I believe that this is the medium by which we receive so many of our messages and answers about what ails us. I have had three very powerful dreams in the past that have all had messages or roadmaps for me to follow.

I'm not saying that h didn't have some valid beefs about our r but so much of what was said, his reactions to me during that time were off the charts.

This is what I'm feeling as well. I just posted something on my thread that brought this feelings back for me. So, it is senseless, needless, irrational, off the charts, etc....but how can they (or at least my H) hurt me this way? continue to behave in a way that he KNOWS is hurtful? and I know this is an ASSumption but how can they NOT know that infidelity is wrong and hurtful to the LBS???

Sorry for the hijack.

Anyway...I'm putting my psyche's message in the positive category

Excellent! You know, blue cheese would be the last cheese he would eat and OW would be the last choice he would make...he has YOU!

Have a great day!
Minnie

[sage]

Excellent! You know, blue cheese would be the last cheese he would eat and OW would be the last choice he would make...he has YOU!

LOL! I hadn't even made that leap! From now on, former ow will be affectionately known as the BLUE CHEESE

[sage]

WOOOOOHOOOOOO!

Gotta post 'cause I'm busting with PRIDE!

h just got his grades from his FIRST year of law school. You know -- the thing that he has been busting his butt over for the last year, showing amazing determination and commitment and smarts and grit and focus and ...

ALL grades WELL above average including an (drumroll!) A in one of his classes. To set the stage..it's likely that h's A was the ONLY one given out in his section.



Looking like he's in the top 10% of his class for certain...likely even higher!

Hooray, hooray, hooray!

Sage

PS h told me I looked cute AND sexy this AM. I'll take that combined with the above as one GIANT positive!

[nitaf]

Congrats Sage. His grade reflects your support. H always said that I was never supportive enuff. I thought I was, but I guess not in the right way.
I know your h is so happy to see u so proud!



Nitaf

[minnie1]

Hi Sage,

I agree with Nitaf, your's H success is in part due to your support and own success (db)...SO...Congratulations to both of you!!!

Minnie

[mockers2]

Second time to try to post this!
Sage - just a few thoughts about the "why did this happen?" train of thought. I had read that it was important to really nail down why the affair occurred. This is something I resisted doing, out of fear of bringing up all that pain. Here are two quotes from the witty, wise and wonderful Ellie and JJ that have really helped me refocus and spend less energy on wondering and agonizing over why:

You are making the pretty big ASSumption that he KNOWS why he did it! LOL!!!

Maybe a better tack to take is simply to start talking about what directions you both would like your new R to be going. You know the answer to why the affair started - because isn't it the same for almost every spouse here? He got depressed and/or freaked out about growing older, the OP was available (and/or scheming and manipulative), and the WAS was feeling unloved and unappreciated at home. The excitement of the affair gave them a dopamine rush that temporarily relieved their depression or anxiety and they mistook it for love. Same old same old story - you'd THINK people would be more imaginative, wouldn't you???

Ellie

And

I'm in agreement with kml here. Sometimes, rehashing the past "stuff", the reasons "why", keeps the thoughts and memories of the A alive. We want that bugger dead, cremated, and ashes scattered to the wind!

It's usually much better to move forward, and keep doing the "what works" to keep things going in the right direction, so it doesn't happen again. Communication is key, so that you are BOTH able to ask for what you want.

I, too, don't want to know all the details. I know more than I want to already.

Also, as kml says too, it would be the same old same old story. He's probably not even sure exactly why! It's rarely ever any one big thing.

I think that it was in the KLA tapes where Michele quoted someone as saying, "If you don't have an affair with your partner, someone else will". Concentrate on having an affair with him, and eventually the thoughts of the "why's" will become clearer, and less important, to you.

JMHO!!

--------------------
JJ

Also wanted to say that from here your M looks absolutely wonderfully alive and thriving. You and your H are working so hard, and reaping the benefits. Congratulations, and thank you for offering such teriffic inspiration.

I know that you are in high demand, both here on the bb, and in your life. If you get a chance, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on my thread. I am feelig stuck, to borrow one of your terms....

Thank you again ~ M

[Acorn]

Hey Sage,

You sound great

Now, tell me, WTF does it matter why it happened? Neither of you are the same person anymore. The same conditions wouldn't cause it to happen again unless you go back to being those people.

Maybe more productive: does he know how he FELT when it happened (even if he doesn't know why..)? Is anything going on NOW that brings up similar feelings? That is what matters, avoiding creating similar feelings, though now they'd likely be from different causes because u 2 are so different, is the positive project to focus on to keep you marriage alive, healthy, and forward looking

Hanging on to the why is hanging onto the vestiges of victim mode. You are not the victim. You chose to stay, you chose to work things out, AND you have suceeded. Let it go. Keeping the training wheels on too long keeps you from learning how to ride. (you KNOW i had to do at least one goofy analogy)

Ciao doll,
Acorn

[sage]

Acorn! How are you?

Maybe more productive: does he know how he FELT when it happened (even if he doesn't know why..)? Is anything going on NOW that brings up similar feelings? That is what matters, avoiding creating similar feelings, though now they'd likely be from different causes because u 2 are so different, is the positive project to focus on to keep you marriage alive, healthy, and forward looking

Sigh. So darned smart and wise of you! I love how you captured this idea (which had not occurred to me in the slightest...). How to get at the knowledge, though? Ask him?

Hanging on to the why is hanging onto the vestiges of victim mode. You are not the victim. You chose to stay, you chose to work things out, AND you have suceeded. Let it go. Keeping the training wheels on too long keeps you from learning how to ride. (you KNOW i had to do at least one goofy analogy)

Tightrope, training wheels, all "storytelling" which is a tremendous way to communicate and get your message across.

Thanks for the visit!

Sage

[sage]

Morning all...
this post is likely to be even more self-indulgent than usual 'cause I'm gonna talk some more about my dreams.

I mentioned the "blue cheese" dream already. the next night I had a dream in which I was moving home with my mom and didn't seem particularly upset about it (note that this is how I KNEW it was a dream since mom and I do NOT get along and cannot live together!). I walked into the house and she was upstairs in her room. I went to see her. From downstairs someone called out to us. It turned out to be a butcher delivery person. they had two items for us (neither of which sounded like meat but also neither of which raised my eyebrows in the dream). My mother said "I think you need to get this one". I looked at her quizically and then said "OK, but I think this makes us even". I walked downstairs and handed over $42.

My younger sister was there when I got downstairs. Turned out that she was moving home too (and again, didn't seem dismayed!). She said that she hadn't told me she was moving home because she didn't want me to feel crowded. My mother called down to her..."I put the berries in the fridge".

*************
OK. Well, I realized (after way too much thought! Get a hobby!) that the butcher reference was actually VERY clever! In my post to PJ the other day about infidelity I said something like "My h did have some valid beefs about our m...."

So...the butcher reference is clearly referring to that...and the statement of "I think we're even now" after I make restitution is, I guess, about really feeling as though we've paid enough for what happened? TBH, I'm not sure if my "Mom" in the dream is really her (because we do have a very strained relationship for lots of reasons -- including but not limited to her own affair with a married man) or if she's supposed to be h.

Could be both, I suppose...and maybe the message is universally true for me that we've all "paid enough".

Don't have a clue about the berries and my sister!

********
h and I had a date last night after his class. the place we wanted to go to was too crowded so we had pizza and beer someplace else! About halfway through dinner I sensed this bizarre shift in him...almost as though he had retreated...I felt this standoffishness...a bristley feeling...all of a sudden I felt really afraid and in need of self-protection. It was SO WEIRD! I retreated a bit internally and kind of put up an emotional force field. I was definitely perplexed!

We got home (separate cars) and h said "Did I do something to make you mad?" I said "no way" and gave him a big kiss and we were ok from then on (yah, ok, why didn't I say something about sensing that he was pulling away? partly because that kind of conversation tends to sound contolling to h, and partly because all of a sudden it occurred to me that maybe he HADN'T pulled away but that I HAD first).

Anyway...it was a good lesson for me that even a subtle shift in my mindset and attitude is totally perceptible to h AND that my feeling of FEAR gets transmitted as anger.

I dreamt last night about a FF friend of h. I'm not sure if they're still friends or not but about 5 years ago she was a big thorn in my side. We went thru a phase where I was very uncomfortable with their R -- dinner at their apartment alone, etc. I handled it poorly, came off as a jealous shrew, etc. TBH, though, I still don't entirely know if their r. had any makings of an EA. All I know is that it was a very difficult time in our m. (and there are times when it feels like a precursor to actual ow)...

anyway, I dreamt that she and my h were out and that she came over to my mom's house first (alone). I asked her if they had slept together and she said "of course. He doesn't want to have sex with you. But he always has it with me." My reaction was angry and sad, of course but I said "yah, but he always comes home to me. He doesn't really want you."

*************
Goodness...what the heck is up with my psyche? Three days in a row of bizarre dreams? Something's just underneath the surface!

Anyway, driving into work this AM I was dwelling on the dream and also my fear based reaction of last night. I was torquing myself up over FF#1 and OW...thinking "this is a cycle. Why can't he find the love he needs in our m. won't this happen again? can't he just love me and appreciate me and our m?"

Then -- aha moment -- how about turning that last statement into an "I" statement? Can't I just love him and appreciate him and our m?

Duh.

Love him. Appreciate him. Value him. Value our m. Stop turning over the rocks looking for bugs. Heck....sit ON the rock! It's cozy and comfortable there!

What a doofus.

Sage