Good points, all of you, on this friendship topic. And if I may, I would like to throw my two cents into this.......
Friendship is really important to me. I have many aquaintances, but few I consider friends. There are terms such as true friends, or best friends and so forth, but for me, I really don't distinguish. Being friends is something sacred to me.
With that, I do hope that one day I can be friends with my XW, but for now, I consdier her an aquaintance. Why you may ask? Well, I will tell you all.
There is a condition when I enter a friendship with someone, a certain silent but understood dynamic. It is along the lines of the give and take sitch. If I enter a friendship with someone, I will give and give and give, and ask for nothing in return, but do have the understanding that if I ever need anything and become a taker, I can turn to this person and will receive help in any form.
An aquaintance to me is someone who I know and I will give and give, but have the understanding that any giving may not necessarily make me feel as if I can rely on the same thing coming back to me.
As I write this, it sounds pretty selfish. Expecting something in return for any deed that I do. But what I ask in return can not be quantified or measured. Its a feeling.
With that said, I feel that my XW is an aquaintance right now.
I may be a tad restrictive, select, or whatever it needs to be labeled, if at all. But my point is, I value a friendship more than anything. If I can't have a friendship with someone, then really, that person does not deserve much of my time. I will not deny that person time, but time will be limited.
Friendships take time. Friendships need to develop. But most importantly, friendships start in the heart. And up until recently, i haven't allowed anyone to enter my heart for fear of loss. My heart is open now and I am developing some good friendships. I just hope one day I can have that friendship with my XW.
Triple J
Things were different then. All is different now. I tried to explain, somehow..........
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
8-26 I send her an email about an address she has for one of my friends that just had a baby. Errands type email stuff.
8-27 Her birthday. I sent her a card addressed to her maiden name. I wrote "I hope you have a wonderful 33rd year, I hope all your wishes come true, not just with work because there are so many more important things in life. I hope you find peace, love, and happiness. Farewell - Seattle.
By this time I'm on the east coast for a little weekend getaway. Had an AMAZING TIME by the way.
When I returned Sunday 8-29, I saw this email she sent on her birthday Friday 8-27 "hi there i will get you the address tomorrow. have a good weekend!"
8-29 Sunday, I saw an email she sent this day, not Saturday like she said she would above. "hi here is their address but this may be an old one it is from before we were married. hope you are well.
thought i would have heard from you on my birthday...
let me know where you are at with the paper work.
it was nice to meet up with you and not discuss anything awful!
and poor laura had a really big baby...also do you mean the XXXX for poker? interesting..take care"
another email a few hours later "i hate email this is my third f#$%ing try to get this info to you. this may be old it is from before we were married
hope you are well, i was surprised not to hear from you on my b-day.
poker-fun was it at XXXX? and poor laura big baby!
please let me know where you are at with the paperwork. it was nice to ge together and not discuss anything awful!
thanks
call me this week please
8-30 I got home and she left me a voicemail. Unusual for her to leave a message here, she knows its better to call my cell. "Hi, its me, I emailed you, um, I don't know, just look at my email, and call me back, I haven't heard from you in awhile and I was worried, I will talk to you soon hopefully, thanks bye."
Her tone was real apprehensive and she sounded worried. The last part she sounded real tentative and she sounded sincerely worried and hopeful to talk to me.
I just agreed to see her last week. She didn't even clarify what about, I thought we had things to talk about as always. We spent over an hour at coffee chit chatting about bs. I came away ticked off, but I didn't say anything. She knows I have the papers and only been a week, she's been sitting on them for months now.
For 10 months I had to call her a week in advance just to communicate with her. I couldn't see the dog, nothing. Throughout this time she tried to avoid seeing me or communicating with me at all, and the longer the better. Now just one week later she is "worried"? WTF for? Why is it so important I call her on her birthday? Didn't she get the card? Pretty sure she did since I haven't seen it returned.
I'm tempted to confront her and set boundaries about friendship, tell her what is acceptable to me, tell her what I think but I'm not sure this is the right route.
After all, I've done this in the past with no real results. The other alternative I can think of is to just tell her how busy I was, how much fun I've been having, bring her up to speed on the status of the papers and I sent her a card on her birthday. I'm thinking of writing an email so I don't have to talk to her. I feel bad she has asked me to call her a couple times, but I don't want to talk to her.
Any thoughts, suggestions, pointing out things I've missed, etc. would be much appreciated. Hope you all are well, I'll try to catch up with you all.
Quote: I'm tempted to confront her and set boundaries about friendship, tell her what is acceptable to me, tell her what I think but I'm not sure this is the right route.
No, it's not.
Quote: The other alternative I can think of is to just tell her how busy I was, how much fun I've been having, bring her up to speed on the status of the papers and I sent her a card on her birthday. I'm thinking of writing an email so I don't have to talk to her.
Sounds like a good approach. I like that you were out of town having fun on her birthday, AND that you sent her a card. Maybe the "farewell" on your card freaked her out - could she have thought you were suicidal? Or more likely, it is just hitting her that you have dropped the rope. Emailing her is probably the best approach, because you can sound cheerful and not reveal anything emotionally - also, it makes it clear that she will have to TRY HARDER if she wants you back.
Triple J - I couldn't have outlined my feelings on friendship any better right now. My time and myself is all I have to give, and they are valuable and important and I don't have much to spare. I'm certainly not going to keep giving them to her.
Ellie - Thank you for posting and your thoughts. It confirms what I was thinking. You are right, she will have to try harder and A LOT harder if she wants my friendship. Not that I'm bitter or holding it hostage, just that it is important to me and its obviously not as important to her. She apparently feels I'll always be there and want to be her friend. I'm not going to keep enabling this sickness. It is not good for me.
I am going to email her, for many reasons but also for what you helped point out. I'm not in an emotional state where I even want to talk with her.
Thank you both, I think my blood pressure has lowered.
Well, I'm certainly glad your blood pressure lowered coz I certainly felt it boiling in your post. And with good cause!
Not sure where she is coming from but if I had to guess, she is probably in a mode that she is now driven by the papers and moving forward. For some reason, I have come to the conclusion that for some of the WAS, this is like graduating from school and putting it all behind them and forging ahead in the world. Follow me, my STBXH hasn't really pushed me about the papers. He brings them up occasionally and then we review and then we sit and so forth. It's another cycle. He mentioned that once the papers are done, we have a better chance at being friends. Why? My guess is that it's a page in the history book. That chapter is closed and if they want to start a new one (w/you) they can try to or they can start in a whole other direction.
An older friend of mine that was separated from his W for a few years and then got back w/her says they still go to counseling after 10 yrs. Just recently his W told him she wants to buy new wedding rings. He asked why and she told him so they could symbolize the start of their NEW relationship. Kind of makes sense here. Maybe that's what some of the WAS think. (just surmising??)
Anyway, I think your W is curious about where you are, why you haven't called her since your date etc... It's almost like the stories here where she is seeing where your heart and head are concerning her. She is starting to open up to you and you are not receiving it how she wants you to. You're not PURSUING her! Now, I'm not saying you should but it's the reversal thing. She's probably still in shock about some things but part of her wants to end it so she can try and start fresh w/you.
Hope this makes sense, Seattle. I know where you're coming from but I think that they are still in this alien world and slowly starting to analyze what we've been saying and doing for some time now. It's coming to closure and realizing the reality of it.
I'd stay clear of discussions and keep it to email. If she wants more, she can do it and seek you out. YOU GO MR! Take care Tootles......................
Triple J's definition of friendship doesn't sound selfish to me -- it sounds very, very reasonable. It is a feeling, a big picture, not a scorecard... a knowledge of what friends add to your life or whether they are draining your energy away. I think he summed that up beautifully.
You've worked damn hard here, Seattle. You've grown as a person. You've learned a whole lot and showed tremendous strength and vulnerability. It's really amazing.
I've been through the contact thing recently too as you know. And I've experienced a lot of what you describe-- the actions, the feelings. Sometimes parts of this path are just hard, especially finally learning to trust in ourselves. Frankly, I've learned a lot from the way you've handled yourself, and I know others have too.
You're entitled to vent a bit if you need to... to put some focus on what's essential for you... and to find and walk whatever path will bring you the most peace going forward. Because clearly forward is where you've been headed for some time now.
Wishing you all the good things you deserve and sunny days ahead.
What the heck is going on with you? Is it almost time to don the spandex again?
Bringing your thread back to life... just because I miss you.
Betsey
p.s. I told your other Seattle compatriot that I was going to share my love on the BB today. I think I've just about fulfilled that mission. Now I'm gonna puke...
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Take care Tootles...................... 
