Things have been so up and down the last 2 days. Thurs. I was hoping my W would come home right after her training. She told me in a very sort phone conversation she didn't know when she would be home, but would call me. Well I got no cal, no return to my call and she got home after 10.
When she got here I was nice like I usually am, but it soed hurt that she didn't call to let me know what was up. I ended up not going to bible study since I thought she might come home. She did snuggle up nicely with me last night, and she did say she missed me a lot. She even complained about being alone in the hotel and eating alone. That felt good, but underneath it all I kept thinking she would have come right home if she missed me or at least called. She ended up going to the bar with her friend who visited her the night before up at her hotel (and spent the night). She even was complaining that she didn't get up early enought to shower.
Well this morning was really nice, we had breakfast together and talked a bunch. She got ready to go to get her oil changed, and she even walked around undressed like she used to. It was also funny she noticed a new picture frame I got thats in my office, I showed it to her (she was naked) its a love frame with a picture I took of her a week or two ago. SHe love it and thought it was really nice. She hugged me and we were a bit affectionate. It made me really happy. We did plan to go out tonight and she said she would be home at 4:00.
Well here I sit now at 10:00 at night. She isn't home, hasn't called, and didn't return my call at 6:00. What really bums me out about this was that tonight we set up as a result of MC asking what we could do to improve our M by a point. I said spending time together on a weekend night when I have more time free. She agreed, and we set tonight as that time. I am so hurt and disappointed by this. The worst part is it is really feeding my fear of not wanting to be with her. I mean I am thinking I am going to be the WAS soon. I don't understand how she can go from being so loving with me when she is with me, and then wreck it all but standing me up and not letting me know whats going on.
I spoke with my C about it this morning (about last night). I told her about my fears and how its hurting my feelings for my W. My C said that I should be careful of not putting everything I need (respect, love, affection, ect..). My C said I have to let her know some of this stuff like boundries I need, before I get to the point I walk out. I know I would do this, but I really fear my W not accepting it and working with me to make it better.
We decided that I need to be careful but to discuss it. I plan to approach it in MC monday and come at it from a trust perspective. Saying "I need help with something I have no control over. I know you want me to trust you. My trust was severly damage by your actions before you moved in. When you stand me up, not return my calls, not let me know whats going on, and not keeping your word, you continue to errode my trust in you. IF you want me to trust you again, that can only be gained by you doing things that build my trust in you again. I feel right now you are not doing a very good job at that, and there is nothing I can do to trust you more. Trust is not given, its earned."
Thats where my thinking is now. I don't want to go into the depth of my fears of not wanting to be with her. My sincere hope is that the further we get down this road the more she will be the loving W I married. I just fear that it won't.
Tonight when she comes home is gong to be really telling. I am going to do my best to be loving like I always have, but I know I won't be able to not say "I am hurt and disappointed you didn't go out with me" I just have to say my feeling, I can't keep hiding them. I am not going to get angry, but I have to tell her this.
Tomorrow is going to be a day that will be pivotal in our R. Its our 5 year aniversary. I have been going this long, holding off any decisions about what I am going to do. My C and I talked about it and I told her I probably will continue to do what I have been (DBing). IF it goes terribly, like she stands me up again or doesn't spend more than just dinner with me, I don't know if I will be able to go on.
Everyone, I need help and direction. Its probably just the Aniversary, but when she does this stuff I feel like I am falling out of love for her and possibly don't want her in my life. This really scares me. I do know i will be fine, and I don't NEED her in my live, but I just would like to be with her. Help give me some insight.
PS I know I haven't been at this long, and there are real positive things going on, its just so hard to see when every positive step forward comes with a step back.
God Bless You,
Reuben
Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
Well here is a quick update to last nights fiasco. My W came home around 11:30. She came in and kissed me and was nice. She offered some of her nachos and burrito to share so I got up to spend a bit of time with her.
I asked if she was OK and she said yes. She then asked if I was ok, and I said I guess so. She asked why. I said don't you know why. She didn't know (and she seemed genuine). I reminded her about our date to go out tonight. She was stunned, and said she completely forgot. I said didn't you think about me at all today. She said yes. I asked wouldn't you at least call me sometime throughout the day to check in? She made an excuse about her cell phone being in her vehicle and couldn't get to it.
She then said she felt terrible and stupid. She said she went to a bar and got f'ed up. I asked when that was and she said about 3 pm to 5pm, and then met up with friends. She said she felt as if I was angry. I sain I'm not (I had been calm and didn't really say anything to give her that explination). I told her this, and she agreed. I think she just felt thats how I should have reacted.
She then noticed her flowers and presents for V-Day and our Aniversary. She said those where the most beautiful flower she has ever gotten. She then snuggled up with me on the couch and kissed me. We went to bed and snuggled more til we fell asleep.
This morning was good, she again was really nice and we snuggled some more. We had a nice breakfast together and she continued to swoon over her flowers. We talked about what we would do today and I think she is actually going to spend it mostly with me which is good.
It just troubles me that she would totally forget me and not call. Even more so is the fact that it was because she was out drinking and it was so early. She seems to be jeckle and hide. When with me she is really great, but out alone and having fun its like I don't exsist. She still is leading two lives it seems, and I am really fearful of her drinking. (I have talked about this in my previous thread)
I will have to think about this, I think it needs to be addressed. I don't plan to bring it up one on one, but maybe in MC monday. I think she may have a problem that she isn't aware of which is alcohol.
Any words of advice would be great, I am nervious about bringing it up as our R is still in a fragile place.
God Bless You,
Reuben
Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
C~ I think you are handling things very well. Her "previous life" that included the parting and staying out is still a Habit to her. Slowly she is seeing that there is a safe alternative.
She needs time to wean herself from that. You are correct in letting her know that it bothers you. But you didn't freak on her. You are setting expectations and she is learning this new way of life.
I see momentum changing and she is still very receptive to the new life. It will not happen over night, just like the rest of this process.
The beauty of booze is that if used properly it can become a great alibi for the abuser, as well as a great crutch for them to lean on. Booze (in all it's forms) is a great way to throw off ones inhibitions and live the perverse life that the drinker doesn't have the courage to live while sober. Booze becomes the venue they use to give themselves permission to be losers. T2
I'll tell you what Cruise I will GLADLY trade places with you. You are doing fine. Don't forget your DBing skills and KEEP improving on them. You are in a GREAT place... For right now concern yourself with getting your M back on track and full steam any other issues can be handled at a later time.
Be patient... you are so fortunate and see the blessing in that. Sure she is still acting a little flighty if you will, but you are at least HERE instead of in the newcomers section with ZERO positive potential in sight. Please be happy in knowing that people in my position just hate people in your position. I think they call us player haters... LOL
You are very fortunate. Keep enjoying it. Keep in mind what expectations did you have when you two first started dating? NONE... you were hopeful but not expecting. STAY that way... and let nature take it's course.
Water, Thanks so much for the reply. I do have to keep in mind she needs to ween off of it. I guess my fears keep me from seeing this all of the time.
T2, I really appreciate this insight. I see this in my W especially using it as an alibi. This gave me a lot to think about, but I don't think I am going to address yet. I am going to talk with my MC about it individually first, as Monday my W double booked counseling and I will have 1/2 with MC by myself before W joins us.
FeelSoLost, I now how you feel. I couldn't read piecing when I was in newcomers because I didn't see much hope. I know my complaints and frustrations must drive you and others crazy. I do know things are going in a great direction, but even when you get to this place there are still things to deal with. But its good because your DBing for the R and not just to get your Spouse back.
Update for today:
Valentines day was good and was also our 5 year anniversary. We had a nice breakfast together and we were nice and affectionate with each other. What amazes me through all of this is that we talk much easier with each other. Maybe its just us avoiding the difficult stuff, who knows but its good.
We opened gifts in the afternoon. She got me some nice drawing stuff. I really appreciate it because she said she wants us to draw TOGETHER! I don't know how she read my mind but I have been thinking about this.
She opened her card and two gifts. She was really touched by my card and what I wrote. Then she opened her V-day gift which was two Orange County Chopper tank tops, and OCC undies. She loved them and has been wanting some for a long time. Then she open her Anniversary Gift which was a antique oriental jewelry box. She love this also, and got teary eyed, and so did I. She went right away to put her jewelry in it. Then she tried on her tanks and undies to see if they fit. We were hugging and kissing and flirting with each other when she says to me "wanna have a quickie".
I was so surprised. I of course said yes. In my mind I didn't want a quickie, but didn't say anything. Well we ML for a long time. It was wonderful and we both talked about how much we missed it. Our sex life has been one of the best things in our past R, and now I feel like its going to be the icing on the cake as we reconnect. The look in her eyes while ML really made me feel so connected with her again.
We then went to dinner (nearly missing our reservation because of the recreations). I took her to our favorite restaurant.
The really hard thing for me was on the way to dinner we pasted the restaurant where her GF works. My W said that her GF wanted to go out after work with her and was thinking of going. My heart just sank. I told her that is I would be disappointed and hurt if she did. She was like whats the big deal. I then said its not like every day is our 5 year wedding anniversary and we also had talked about watching a movie together later. She replied with well we will have many more anniversaries (I did take this as a good sign, but didn't help my feelings). I then asked how she would feel if I said I planned to go out with my buddies instead of spending my Anniversary with my W. She said he understood and would think about it. I said the decisions up to you but it would have the consequence of me being really hurt and sad. She then reached over to caress my head, to which I instinctively pulled away.
She then said I was acting really strange. I said I just feel that our anniversary is important and my W should be spending it with her H. She then said she probably wouldn't go. I said if you want to go do so. We then went into the restaurant. After sitting down I apologized for getting all weird, but I just needed to let her know how I felt. She understood and said its OK.
We had a wonderful time after that. Great conversation, holding hands while the violins played. I told her how much I loved her and she responded with the same. She talked about how much more open I am and she feels like she isn't as open. I said I could see that, but as we got closer and connected more she probably would. She said she feels like I am way ahead of her with it, and I said I could see that but that if we work together we will catch up together. Later on during the dinner she told me she would be with me tonight, and I thanked her.
There was much more to it, but if I had to describe it...if you saw us together last night you would have thought we were newly married. And I feel that is how we are both approaching it.
We went home, and I ran out quick for to rent a movie. When I came home my W had many candles lit in the living room, including our wedding candle. I said it looks nice and asked about our wedding candle. She said we should have been lighting every year, but we will start now. (I didn't ask about it further, but I think that really is a sign that she is committed to work with me on this)
Last night I also approached her about what I would like for my Birthday which is later in the month. I told her about Retrouvaille, and that there was one in March locally. I said I would like my B-day gift to be for us to go to this. This morning I gave her some materials on it. She read them and asked if its what I wanted for my B-day. I said yes and that I think it will really help us. She said OK, and actually thought it would be a great idea too. She said to fill it out, and she would write the check and we could send in next week
This request was something I really wanted, and I kinda think was a test in a way. The fact she wants to do it (even though its my b-day gift) is a really positive step. I have heard so many good things about it, and feel a dedicated weekend for us to work on our R and M will benefit us greatly.
Last good bit of news is that she said she wants to start going back to church with me during lent. I mentioned about ash wed. and since she is in Madison for training she said I could come up and visit and stay with her each WED to help her load up in the morning, and we could go to ash wed. mass together. This will be the last thing on my list that she will have done that I said would first indicate we are starting to go in the right directions.
If you haven't already made a list like this per the DR book, I really suggest it. It will help clarify what things you will be looking for your Spouse to do it indicate things are moving toward reconciliation.
I'm in a good place. I know I didn't handle the talk of my W going out like a true DB'er would. I did take from it that my W does truly care for my feelings (her reaching out to me physically to reassure me). I think it also continued to open her eyes to what is really important which is our M. There was a passing discussion about her having fun to get out before she was in the nursing home. I said yeah I think thats good, but don't forget who is going to be there for you when you get there. Your H is the one who will be there through it all with you. She agreed and I think she understood. This was right as we got into the restaurant and before she said she was going to stay with me.
Thank you all for the support. I keep praying that everyone here can see the blessings I have, and that God will help me get through my fears by keeping the positive things going. He is helping me through this by having all of you here to reassure me and point out how my W is really starting to come around.
God bless you all, and thank you.
God Bless You,
Reuben
Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
I just caught up. WOW!! I highly recommend Retrouvaille. H and I went in 1/03. I obviously got more out of it than H, but it's great to know we can always go to CORE meetings if/when H wants to.
I don't have any experience with the drinking/bar scene. Glad to see others giving you good advice. As far as the lateness, I can relate. I think at some point you have to make that a boundary. I think your little talk about that got your point across which is great!!
Last night was very interesting. My W went out to be with an old friend and said she would let me know the plans, and call to let me know about dinner. Well again she didn't call.
I left her a message around dinner time and asked her to call me when she got it so I knew if I should eat alone. After about a 1/2 hr, I made dinner myself. I agian made what we talked about making together rather than a bachelor meal. I sat down again to eat alone.
Well as I was cleaning up and just about to put the leftovers away my W came home. She said it smelled so good when she walked in, and I heated up a plate for her. I sat and talked to her while she ate. I told her I wished she would have called me.
She then went on to tell me her friend didn't get back to her until late, and that she was hanging out in the bar waiting for her call. She again said she got drunk, and that she was talking to other bar partons she knew. She said she felt emberassed to call me. And said she stopped by a guy friends place to watch movies.
I said I wish you would have called me to let me know what was up because I worry when she doesn't. She said she didn't because she didn't want to worry me. I said I am going to worry whether you call or you don't, so its better to call. She agreed, and said at least I am telling you now. I said I did appreciate her opening up.
She said there is nothing to worry about. I said well tell me this, what would be your reaction if I told you I was out in the afternoon, got drunk, and forgot our date like you did on Friday, and now hear about you getting drunk and forgetting to call me. She said "I would think you have a drinking problem, or that I wasn't important to you." I said yes you are right I think both of those things. She told me both are not true, she doesn't have a drinking problem and she thinks I am important. I said well what do you think the problem is then. She said she doesn't know. She said that well I guess now you will tell everything in MC tomorrow (she said this like a kid would say about someone taddling). I said well I think you need to work through it and maybe you could talk with your C individually tomorrow about it. She said she would think about it.
I then probably went a bit far and told her that her not calling is not helping me trust her. She said "oh great". I reasurred her that I trusted her a lot more than when she was not living here, and she is doing things that help my trust like telling me about what she did during the day. I said but I feel when you don't call that the gains you make in trust with me are taken back by you not calling or standing me up. I said I feel that you would want me to trust you. She said she did. I said I have no control over my trust for you, I would fix it or work on it myself, but I can't. She acknowledged that she has to gain my trust again.
The conversation was calm. While eating I had all of her attention, and when we were talking while doing things she assured me several times that she is listening. These are very good things and I can tell our communication is getting better.
We relaxed and watched some TV, and even flirted a bit and reminiced about how much fun we had V-day. Then we went to bed and my W snuggled up to me and even took my suggestion of sleep near nothing on to help her not get so hot (her MS troubles her in bed when she gets to hot) this was a nice bonus.
This morning was nice as well, she made me breakfast, talked about plans for today, and what we would do together tonight. Even to get her a new bra as her favorite was getting old. She even agreed to my suggestion of a trip to VS and to pick up a new sexy for her to wear.
What really amaxed me the most is our discussion on the drinking. It seems whenever she lets me down as they say, she acknowledges it owns up to it, and even says it makes her feel bad. I don't even really say things to make her feel this way other than sharing my feelings.
I think the guilt of her actions is setting in on her, and is struggling with also her desire to open up to me. I feel she has been hiding this for a while, and maybe even lead to the seperation. I worry the alcohol has a hold on her. I also get the sense of her opening up about it may even be a way to ask for help. She denies there is a problem, and I didn't even ask about it. She brought it up when I asked how she felt if the roles were reversed. I think this is a major step, and hopefully will work to were she owns up to it and maybe even asks me for help.
I am going to pray for God to help her find the courage to ask for help with her temptations. Any prayers from all of you would be appreciated.
Any thoughts on this from others dealing with a spouse you suspected or comfirmed had a drinking problem? What was there way they asked for help or sought it out? Our friendship and relationship are good when we are together, even better than it has been for a long time. Its just when she is away and when I believe she is drinking that she slips away from the R. Advise from all of you would be great.
God Bless You,
Reuben
Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
Oh can I relate to the "drinking" stuff. My H is like your W, when he stops off for a couple he's lost to me and to time. The majority of time he has more than a few, he drinks until he's drunk or "full" as he likes to refer to it. My H has been drinking heavily about the last year and half, meaning at least once a week. And he drinks till he's drunk!
For some reason I pretty much "feel" when he's going to stop for a few or if the urge is going to hit him to stop for a few. Must be an intuition thing. For the most part, he doesn't call to tell me he's stopping either. He works construction and drinking tends to be entertainment for the majority of these guys.
I think deep down he knows he has a problem, I've mentioned it to him before. His mother is an alcoholic, also. My H is also dealing with MLC and a lot of other issues or should I say avoiding the fact that he's getting older!
When he does get like this I detach from him, it's about him, not me. I don't know if there's a lot that can be done by us, I think the drinker has to hit rock bottom or have some kind of "bomb" in order for them to see that they have a drinking problem.
I've done the waiting thing, too. I don't anymore. Maybe you should pull a 180 on her, don't be waiting there for her when she decides to stop off and not show up at home, just a thought.
Does your W drive while she's drunk? This is what scares me the most, not so much that my H will run off the road and hit tree or fall asleep BUT that some innocent person will be hurt or killed!!
Reuben, I think everything is still going fine but maybe it cant hurt for you to go out once in a while too. It just seems like you are always home to notice her being out. Other than that, it seems she is sincere bout making things work but she doesnt want to lose her new social life, even thought its unhealthy considering there is drinking involved.
I can relate because in the beggining of my break, she would make it seem like everything is ok but would sometimes me over for her new friends and that killed me so much. And eventually, my jealousy over her friends caused a bigger rift between us.
It took time but she seems to be hanging out with that crowd less, except for a few but she isnt replacing that time with me yet. I think you are lucky because things are happening much quicker in your case so be happy for that and please be patient and try to keep busy and dont try to make too many plans with her because when she is late or forgets, it causes too much stress on you. Go slower. Eventually Im sure you will be able to count on her every night!
Id appreciate any input you may have on my recent updates. Thanks and Good luck!
Anything worth having is worth working HARD for!
Making a New Move
You are doing fine. Don't forget your DBing skills and KEEP improving on them. You are in a GREAT place... For right now concern yourself with getting your M back on track and full steam any other issues can be handled at a later time. 
for a long time. It was wonderful and we both talked about how much we missed it. Our sex life has been one of the best things in our past R, and now I feel like its going to be the icing on the cake as we reconnect. The look in her eyes while ML really made me feel so connected with her again.