Thank you!!, sjohns6, for posting this. There is so much wisdom in your words, just like DnJ's, you guys are pillars, teachers. So thankful for you speaking truth even when it is hard to hear.
I am moving along slowly, I wish I'd have the time to read more, post more but I'm always so darn busy making this family run. H is not doing much to help with that anymore. He's living the life right now, spending money on himself for the most part. I asked him if he could please make the September mortgage payment since he's now back to work, and like I mentioned, makes twice what I make. He got upset, told me he would give me half! Now this is the same man who told me over and over that he did not want his wife to ever have to work! I'm already in over my head with everything. This is NOT the man I married and spent 26+ years of my life with. I've been paying all of our bills for over a year now because he's had surgery, I'm in debt. I thought things would get better now that he's back to work but who am I kidding?!
My daughter and I have been talking, between her and I we can make the house/family run should he decide to bail out completely. Unfortunately, that is something I have to prepare for.
The other night someone came to pick him up and he did not come home until the next morning. He was still drunk and did not go to work, slept all day. I did not get any explanation from him other than he got wasted with a coworker and crashed at his house, and him rolling his eyes saying "No, I do not have a girlfriend!" I did not get any sleep that night, had to go to work at 4.30 in the morning. He never picked up his phone or texted back when all I wanted him to do is tell us that he was okay. Nobody had any idea that he had even left but he couldn't drive his car because he had been drinking. I mean, how inconsiderate can someone be to worry your family like that. I guess he really meant it when he said "Now it's time for ME!"
Honestly, I would encourage him to leave if he is really that unhappy here, and he knows it because I've told him he's free to go, free to get a divorce. I am not holding him back and I wouldn't make any demands for anything. That's not who I am. My take is, if you don't want to be here then go somewhere where you do want to be. Simple as that. I would miss him, and I do still love him dearly but this version of him is not the version I would want to be with anyway.
Keep going everyone, time is on our side, it really does heal all wounds, as they say. If nothing else, we will find ourselves through all of this. Thank you MLC, for (brutally) teaching us self worth.
Oh, I sure know how you feel about him getting drunk with a coworker and not coming home till morning. My W did that a time or 2. I don't think I ever posted about that specifically because it was in the early days before I found this site. She had me absolutely crazy with anxiety. I am so sorry you have to deal with all of this. And the finances on top of that. It is all really too much. I think about how I am now vs how I was before. I realize that I am so much more patient with things now. When your feet are held to the fire, then don't get burned on the hot pavement anymore. The silver lining is that we learn, we grow, we get stronger, we get better. All while our MLCers are twisting in the wind acting happy while feeling worse than I would ever want to feel. I know how it feels to inflict pain on people I love. I've never done it on purpose, but it feels terrible. I can't imagine what it feels like to rip the lives apart of the people I care for the most. I can still look in the mirror. I can still sleep at night (or can sleep at night again I should say). I did not want to be on this journey, but I am glad at very least to be on this side of it instead of the other. I like who I am becoming. I kind of wonder if our MLCers will ever be able to truly love themselves again.
Keep your head up. You are the prize, you are worth it. There may come a time for you and H to come back around, but it isn't now and there isn't anything you can do to speed it along. Just focus on being the person that anyone would be a fool to leave. You already are, but become more of that!
Thank you sj, those words can only come from someone who is much further along in this process than I am right now. I am still very much attached and struggling to detach. This is something I really need to work on immensely. I hate getting sucked into his tornado and losing my footing.
I do need some advice today.. H had calmed down quite a bit for the past weeks and things were bearable. He must be cycling because yesterday he had the worst drunken rage that I have ever witnessed in him. I was shaken by it, it was like he was possessed by evil. There were no immediate triggers, everything was calm. He was in his man cave drinking, I saw him starting out with the usual, which is beer, then he added two different types of whiskey which he never drank before the MLC hit. It didn't take long before he came up and started yelling, cussing and throwing insults around. Luckily, my granddaughter was sound asleep and my son was in his room playing games online so he had his headset on. Every bad feeling just poured out of him in anger, apparently we were all responsible for his anguish, and of course he listed stupid things that did not mean anything. I was laying in my bed watching tv and my mouth popped open, he was so incredibly mean. Finally, I couldn't help it but started crying uncontrollably. My daughter came upstairs and H slammed the bedroom door in her face. She yelled I want to see my mom! So she rushed in and hugged me and let him have it, how much he was causing me pain and he was destroying the family because he couldn't face his own demons. She said a lot of the things that he really needs to hear but it wasn't at a time where he would be receptive to that in any way, of course. If that ever should happen.
I am leaving it up to God because I really believe He is the only one who can reach him now. I pray for him daily.
So back to my question. I am not sure how to handle this. I do know that I can't keep tolerating behavior like this, it's not healthy for anyone and I don't want the kids/granddaughter around this stuff. This morning H was acting normal as if nothing had happened. I don't know if he even remembers his episodes. I snuck out of the house and started walking to work, something I do quite often, it's only a 20 minute walk. It was nice and cool for a change, had been really hot and humid lately. Then he called me, asked where I was and why I didn't wake him up so he could take me to work. I told him I felt like walking and didn't want to wake him. So anyway, how should I handle this?? Do I sit him down for a talk? I really don't want to poke a sleeping bear. I know he's not going to like it but I feel that he needs, and I need, boundaries.
How and when should I start this conversation and how do I word things in the least provocative way possible?
That is a tough spot to be in. I am not sure what advice to give, to be honest. Living with someone going through this is very difficult. I think what the hardest part for me was that my home was my little safety bubble from the rest of the world. The world is full of all kinds of conflict and drama, but at home it was our respite from it all. Then when MLC set in, that safety bubble was deflated. I started to constantly walk on eggshells around her. Not only was I having to learn to deal with the situation around me and how it was affecting us, but I also lost my safe place. I can not begin to describe how negatively this affected me.
I can tell you how I dealt with it, although I am not sure that my approach would work for everyone's situation. It actually didn't even have the affect I intended, but it was the first step towards being able to detach myself from the situation.
My BD started with W telling me about her EA with her coworker. This immediately led in to her going to happy hour after work with coworkers and staying out until late and coming home drunk (on weekdays no less). All while I was at home watching our children. There were a couple times that she didn't come home till morning and did not answer calls or texts. I was riddled with anxiety and depression was beginning to set in. It took EVERYTHING I had to maintain normalcy for our kids. After a few months she decided to move out for a few months for a trial separation. That lasted about 3 months and then she moved back in without much discussion. I knew this was not good (her moving back in without a discussion between us), but I was so down and out that it didn't matter to me. I just wanted her home. She calmed down a little, but she was still ice cold towards me. Then after about a year of walking on eggshells everyday and my emotional health basically being non-existent, she started going out again in the evening. That isn't to say she had completely stopped, but the regularity started picking back up again. I finally got to a point to where I just couldn't take it anymore. One night I sat her down and told her that we could not do this anymore. It was very bad for our family. I told her that it seemed like she was behaving in a way to try and get me to leave. I told her that I was not going to leave. That this is my family. Our family. This is the life that we have worked years to build and that I loved her. I loved our family and I was committed to it. I told her that she either needed to try and make things work between us, or she needed to leave...because I wasn't going to leave. And, she left. She didn't do it immediately. She began looking for a place, and after about 2 months, she moved out. And in that 2 months, I guess because she had a plan of escape, she was nicer. For me it was gut-wrenching. Because she hadn't been talking about it, I almost thought that she had changed her mind and was working on being nicer. But, in the background, she was just looking for a place. Her moving out was very hard. I won't go in to all the detail about that, but I can say that AFTER she moved out I realized how bad off I had gotten. After a week or so my anxiety lifted a bit. I think it was because I was able to come home to a safe place again. I was no longer walking on eggshells at least while home. That isn't to say that I was peachy after that, but I can say that is when my healing ACTAULLY began.
I think you are right about needing boundaries. I feel like that is much harder to enforce when he is living at home, but rage drinking and yelling while the little ones are home is not good. I mean it isn't good whether little ones are around or not, but a deal breaker if they are. I know that would be a hard conversation to have, but you can't live in fear and you have to be an advocate for the kids. I know you don't want to poke the bear, I know I never did either. But there comes a breaking point and I think that setting those boundaries sooner than later would serve you best. He needs to know that his behavior is not acceptable. He may be mad at the world, but he can't take it out on you and the kids and despite what is going through that foggy head of his, it isn't your fault and you don't deserve it.
Unfortunately I am not sure if there is really a good time. Someone going through MLC is going to have a hairpin trigger so even if you wait for a time that he is more reasonable, he might get defensive anyways. What you might do is plan a time to talk. Maybe try to pick a time where kids aren't around and schedule it with him. Think about the things you want to say. Maybe write them down so that you know that you cover everything. Try to be straightforward with it. Maybe try not to have it turn into a relationship talk. There may be time for that at another time, but this conversation is about setting boundaries. It will be hard enough for him to have a rational response, so best to keep it on topic and try not to get baited by him. You need boundaries, and that is for yours and the kids protection. You've got this!!
I didn't read all of your thread. My only advise right now is to only have conversations when he is sober. Do not interact when he has been drinking. Leave the house if he becomes drunk and irational.
HUGS
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Thank you sj, I have yet to have that talk with him but I know we need to have it. Everything has been calm again since that night, I don't know what got into him to act that way. He gets unpleasant when he drinks but never to that extent, really. At least it doesn't happen often. Maybe it was the mixing of different drinks, or maybe he felt exceptionally down before he started drinking, I don't know.
Ready2Change, thanks for your post. I never have a conversation with him when he's drinking, I go to my room and leave him alone. That usually works but not always. Again, it depends on what's going through his mind at the time.
When he comes to bed and I'm still somewhat awake I try to pretend I'm asleep. Then I hear him talking to himself. He is mostly expressing anger at God for what He did to him (his perception) so he curses at Him. It gets pretty ugly but I know that God can handle it, in fact, I'd rather have him talk to God than anyone else that way.
L4H I am so so sorry to read this situation. I must say I have lived it too a few months ago. I know EXACTLY what you are going through. My H too has turned to alcohol and started around the time his work stress got bad. It was his crutch, bad day start drinking and drinking and drinking. He always used to enjoy a drink but always in control in the past, and always a fun person. I would say around 6-9 months before BD was when the angry drunk started to show. After BD H stayed home and I tried desperately to save my marriage. I was 110% all in effort. He was about zero. His behaviour stayed the same, the same cycle of work, stress, anger, turn to alcohol and drink sometimes get angry sometimes not, then pass out. Cycle repeats. There was no effort on him to work on himself or the marriage. He literally was stuck. And I was sucked in for the ride. I copped the abuse, the kids even saw it at times. He would wake up and profusely apologise and couldn’t remember, the. Vow to stop drinking g kept saying he needed to stop( but never did). Thank goodness he made his own call to move out about 3 months later. He had tried to stop drinking and went about 8 or 9 days. I was taking D to a musical and he offered to pick us up because he wasn’t drinking. He told me to have a great night and enjoy a beverage while I watched the show and he was going to get some non alcoholic beer. When he picked us up he was acting a little erratic ( not drunk but these days I can tell the moment he has a drink because it is almost like it hits him hard). I asked him about if he had a drink and sure enough he had, admitted it and then got so angry at me ( as if I poured the damn thing down his throat). This was very early on in my piece and I wasn’t great at DB I shouldn’t have said a thing. Safe to say the next morning he woke up and said he’s moving out. Always after a big drinking episode is when he seems to make his decisions and goes with it. I can see now he was just so so ashamed of himself, and still is because he wants to stop but can’t or won’t put in the work because it’s in the “too hard basket”. He moved out in March and he kept coming and going I kept trying to save my marriage or so I thought but instead let him do as he pleased and walk all over me. We would watch movies and play games with the kids and enjoy a wine but of course he has no off switch so it would escalate at least weekly. Almost like clockwork, the booze starts flowing in my space he starts to get sloppy then angry, the smallest thing I would say or do he would absolutely launch at me and storm out then apologise the next day. Some days were worse than others. One day in particular I had reminded him to not forget his washing by the front door and copped an absolute ear bashing of how he shouldn’t be the one who moved out blah blah. He went to one AA meeting ( purely to tick a box) said it was amazing and felt inspired and wanted to return but never did. I just continued to let H unleash his tirade on me. When he’s sober he’s normal and loving and sort of wants help or seems to be crying for help but once work gets him the stress gets him the roller coaster goes i to free fall and the alcohol sets in, it’s anyone’s guess what version we cop. I just got to a point where I had enough. It takes a lot of guts to set boundaries. Believe me I too sat back and copped the abuse and even had D14 have to tell him off for his treatment of people. It’s almost like I know I had to bite my tongue to save myself from those cruel words. Some were so cruel I never thought this man could say it.
What I do know though and I’m sorry for my long post but I am hoping to paint the picture where I am coming from. What I do know is you will detach when he is out. And he may need to be out of that house and your space when he is drinking. I think the longer they sit in limbo and comfort zone the slower their progress through is. It’s like they just get stuck living in their cycle. There’s no real reason to face it. They have everything they want, they can do whatever they want without us their W saying anything because we are trying to navigate this peacefully and they know we won’t push back. I didn’t detach until H moved out. It took a few weeks but it got easier to let go. It was also nice to not have that negativity and drinking around. It was bad of me to allow him to come over for family stuff and continue drinking. I copped a few months of bad times there too as he came and went and still drank and got angry and hurtful, but I started to lift my boundaries. Multiple times I stopped him drinking around me and he would overstep a few times but now he doesn’t and he knows to not drink around me or the kids or our house. He can go and do his destructive behaviour but as far as I’m concerned we don’t want to witness it. It’s going to be the hardest thing you do but you need to set some boundaries. Does he have a man cave or somewhere he can go to “drink”? Could you lock the house on those days so he can’t barge in and use you as his punching bag? Maybe he could go to a friends for those days? It’s a hard situation. Like I said for me the times I started to detach was when he was gone or when I started to get the courage to lift boundaries. Now my H has chucked a hissy fit and decided he’s moving to the other side of the world and abandoning everything 🤷🏼♀️. To me, that’s the Lowest move a man can make but it’s his reality to live. Alcohol is the worst thing for them. They numb their brain and emotions. Unless they stop drinking the fog will never lift. When they stop and it starts to lift they are flooded with feelings and thoughts so intense their brains can’t handle it so they slip and drink again to calm themselves. They really need to hit their rock bottom and start their own work, and unless alcohol goes they will never heal. It’s sad, it’s so destructive. Just remember we didn’t break them we can’t fix them, we can’t nice them back to us. You bring your H punching bag is not doing you or him any favours. Maybe the only way your H can get through this MLC this time around is completely on his own and without your help to get him through it. I didn’t have to make the move to kick my H out because he left but I think I would have eventually. I did however put up some strong boundaries around drinking around me when I continued to be used as a punching bag on a weekly basis. He never remembered the words the next day either Like amnesia. They are so similar, maybe the two of them can hang out 😀😉 Good luck and pull on your inner strength because it’s there
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
Thank you, P. I agree with everything you say. Alcohol, if abused, can do so much evil, turn loved ones into monsters we don't recognize.
H has had a problem with alcohol since before we even met. He used to drink beer exclusively, and he can drink a lot of it! But he was never a mean or abusive drinker just highly annoying, and he would never miss work the next day or anything like that. Alcohol and depression (like MLC) do not get along well, those two together are trouble. Alcohol is a depressant so mix that with, well, depression and you get a double whammy. For H it opens a door within and all ugly gets unleashed. Inhibitions are lowered while intoxicated so things come out that would not come out while being sober. H never apologizes for anything the next morning, he either doesn't remember or he's too ashamed. He acts like nothing ever happened at all. Really weird. Like your H he is his normal self when sober. Not loving though, I wouldn't go that far. He's kind when in a decent mood but generally somewhat cold.
It is definitely a fact that nothing we could ever do will have any effect on the outcome of this. We can make the ride a little smoother by being non-reactive (very hard to do without turning yourself into a doormat) but from what I have witnessed it does not make a difference in the way they handle things right now. They are all about THEMSELVES and what THEY want, period. If we stand in the way we just get tossed aside. They have no concern for us right now, not at all.
I know it's not ideal to have him living at home, I think I would like it if he wasn't, it would take the pressure off and give me more room to breathe and concentrate on what I have to do for myself and my kids. I could ask him to leave but he most likely wouldn't, and there is nothing I could do about that because the house belongs to his family. We do pay the mortgage and the home will go to the 3 children, H and his two siblings. We would, or H would have to buy them out if both his dad and mom were to pass in the near future. That is hopefully a long time away. But yes, that is the situation. H and his dad had a pow-wow about the will last year, H is the oldest so he will be in charge. He recently said to me "blood only" like I was some kind of gold digger or something. I don't want a dime and he knows that I'm not like that, at least he should.
Gotta cut this short, didn't realize what time it was and I do have to pick up my granddaughter. Talk to you soon.
I’m In full agreeance about the alcohol mixed with depression( especially when MLC usually have depression whether it be diagnosed or undiagnosed). My H too used to drink before I met him, beer. And yes loved the taste he would say, and always say. Would never ever in the 20 years react the way he does now. The MLC monster comes out with the drinking, the anger, the pent up resentment and frustration, the verbal abuse and saying the most horrible things he would never have said in the past even after a drink. I find now, it hits him harder, as in he gets slurrier and silly and lacks that control to pace himself. I can always see it in his eyes his mannerisms now. He hardly ever remembers what he says when he’s had a lot but always knows it’s bad. He always senses he’s said or done something bad. The shame must eat them up. He is always so ashamed but has buried that too. The single best thing they could ever do is to stop drinking but they won’t it’s their crutch as they navigate this. My H went to one AA meeting and said it was amazing and wonderful and wants to go again etc. never did. The shame of saying he even went to Aa was enough he didn’t want anyone to find out ever. He drinks vodka now too( he’s smart he does it because he thinks he doesn’t smell like he’s been drinking but I can pinpoint it a mile away just from his mannerisms) plus I have found it stashed in water bottles. I don’t care anymore it’s not my problem because he’s not doing it around me or the kids. I am no longer his drunk punching bag and that’s the best thing. I do miss the happy go lucky social drinker he used to be. He was far more fun to be around compared to the angry depressed one now. It really consumes them and is their coping mechanism. They get that itch anytime they have a bad day, or a fleeting emotion that they have to deal with.
I’m sorry you’re in a situation where you can’t leave or kick him out. I think you need to lift those boundaries about him being around you when drinking. He needs to do it on his own away from everyone
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
Hi P., I think your hubby and mine would have a ball together, drinking beer, vodka, whiskey and what not and complain about us, the ones who've caused them so much pain, blah, blah, blah.
It blows my mind every day thinking about it, how they go to such great lengths to protect themselves from casting blame onto themselves for what they are going through. It is beyond sad to see it when all they have to do is take a good hard look inside.
After BD in March of this year I poured my heart out, went on about the last "episode" of MLC he had prior to this time around. I guess I thought he would actually have some common sense and remember that we've been here, done this already! Nope, the nightmare was starting all over again. Now I know that he never had truly come out of it at all. 10 years and no clue. It was like the 10 years had not happened and he disappeared back into the MLC tunnel to resume what he had started but not finished. All his recent personal setbacks are most likely to blame for this, threw him right back in there. Anyway, so during that talk we had he held my hand and said he did not want to hurt me. I was fighting the tears and said to him to please not shut me out again, we can do this together. He responded by saying that he's been feeling awful, didn't know what was wrong with him and he would have to do some "soul searching". That was the last sane thing he said to me since. I watched him fall and could not do a thing to prevent it.
He's running like the rest of our men/women going through this. Running and not looking back. That inner pain must be so horrendous, more than us LBS's could ever imagine. If they could just bring themselves to stop and think for a bit to look at this from a rational point of view. Go to therapy, really dig into themselves and emerge a new person, fight those inner demons and cast them out. But that would be too hard... too painful, too much to bear.... so they take the easy way out, blame everyone else, mainly us, and leave us in the dust, beaten down and bleeding. And they just walk on... This thing has Satan written all over it.
They are no longer serving God, it's the other guy for now.
You're right about the alcohol being their crutch, it enables them to behave badly and not feel bad about it. And it numbs the pain so they can actually feel good again, at least for a little while. It's so obvious to us, but they don't realize that they are going in circles with no way out. They need to reach rock bottom, the breaking point. I don't know if H ever will, he has so much pride. He would have to admit to himself that he has weaknesses like everyone else.
Honestly, my only hope for him is God.
He's been working on his six pack. Will not take him long to get there, he's always been a fit guy, his doctor always compliments him. You are 57 and you have the body of a 25 year old! Why doesn't that make him happy?? Last week I walked into my daughter's room and she was busy getting his ears pierced! Excuse me?! He had them pierced back in the day but they had mostly closed up. Now he has 3 studs up one ear and 2 up the other. Wow! Wonder what that young old man is going to do next....
