For those who are still intimate with a Wayward spouse, how did you deal with that?
Mine is not ww (that I know of), but for us we were still intimate a few times after BD. As long as you’re still keeping your expectations at zero, if you are comfortable with it and it meets your needs....maybe it is okay? Others have said if you know he’s involved with others you should not be intimate with him due to possible diseases etc. I feel like my H is the same way, once we’re intimate or we engage each other in a good way, the next moment or the next day he pulls away. I don’t take offense anymore, I honestly think H is just very confused.
Originally Posted by HesAble
My D9 is watching a TV show where a kid is sad that his parents are getting a divorce. She is now commenting on how sad it is that this kid is experiencing this and asks me, "Mom, this boy's parents are getting a divorce. Isn't that so sad?" All I could say was "yes, it is sad, dear." Sigh. I haven't a drink in a while but tonight might be a good night for a pre-bedtime glass of wine.
Shortly after BD one night I was reading a book to them before bed and bam! In my face was the part where one of the characters was a boy who was struggling with his parents’ divorce and he was describing his anger, frustration and all that. I had to hold back my tears. Now that S10 and S8 both know...so far they seem ok. As long as you remain the constant in your children’s lives, I believe they will be okay. We the LBSs have to be that much more for our children. Good luck!!
H is very confused too. I guess I shouldn't take any of his actions personally either, but it is just so tough. I do miss the old H but understand from this forum that, if we are able to reconcile, it will likely be a "new marriage" with a new H.
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
The thing that I struggle with is whether I should be intimate at all with him when he goes right back to his emotional distancing in the basement right after the deed is done. For those who are still intimate with a Wayward spouse, how did you deal with that?
IMHO, when it's the wife who is wayward and is having an affair (or conducting inappropriate behavior with OM) .......the LBH should not be intimate with her. Heck, I don't think he should even show any physical affection, b/c her waywardness is due to her lack of respect for him as a man. WW's will often use sex to manipulate the H, or use the H as the substitute sex tool while she fantasizes about OM. So, if she knows that her H knows about the OM, she will see her H wanting intimacy and affection as weakness. It doesn't make her think more of the LBH.....it builds the wall of disrespect even higher. The only thing a WW respects is strength. If her H wants to be intimate with her, knowing she has betrayed him and currently cheating........she will see him as being weak and see herself as being in a position of power, so to speak. It's unhealthy, and hard to recover from that level of disrespect. The goal of the LBH should be to, first, get his W's RESPECT for him as a man, before he engages in physical affection with her. Just b/c she offers it, doesn't mean rip! She is simply using him. I know that some men will read this and laugh, maybe joke with the other guys that they aren't going to turn down sex. But that's the thing........the WW manipulates him through sex, and if he can't turn her away when she is horribly betraying him, then she will see him as a pathetic excuse for a man. Even though some LBH's on the board may suggest it's okay just as long as they have no expectation...... I shake my head and think, HA! LBH's are fooling themselves. Don't have sex with someone who detests you.........especially if it is your WW.
Once the WW ends her affair and stops all contact with the OM and agrees to her H's conditions regarding reconciliation.........THEN he can have sex with her. I want to believe the same can be said about either spouse who has cheated, but realistically, I just think it's easier to get a wayward H back, than a WW.......b/c it isn't easy for a husband to get back lost respect. It's certainly not impossible, and that's why I try to share what I've learned from the WW side of the street. If there has been no infidelity, then I think it is a lot easier for a LBW to draw her H back, due to how men are wired.
It's a little complicated for me to put into words, but I believe men & women think & respond differently, b/c their makeup is not the same. Yes, they may see eye-to-eye, like the same things, and share the same moral and spiritual beliefs, etc..........but I'm not referring to those type of things. I mean how they respond to emotional type of things. Like, men may hear the same scenario as a woman, but they will respond differently due to how they are wired. They are two different creatures/beings. Certain behavior in men will stimulate a positive, even desirable response in women. However, it won't necessarily be the same actions/behavior that brings positive/desirable responses from men. Make sense? In order for a wife to feel desire for her husband, she has to feel respect for him as a man. (That's a little something God put in the woman after man messed up a good thing in the garden. ;)) I'm not saying it's not important for the H to respect the W, but I don't think it has the impact on his sexual love/desire, to the degree it has on the W. After marriage, traditionally, the H is placed as the leader over his family. Traditionally, he is the main provider and protector over his family. It's like he is the president and the W is vice-president. Even if they agree about most everything, if there is a disagreement, someone has to have the final say. If the W habitually calls the shots, then she will eventually lose respect for the H, and that will affect her level of desire. You see, the W has to accept that he is the president in their house, and whenever she tries to change that order.......there will be issues. I don't want anyone having a heart attack when they read this post.....or misunderstand what I'm trying to say about the W respecting her H. (This is why I said it's complicated for me to put into words.)
During the life span of the woman, she will have high drive, low drive, and no drive. I have read that men are capable of departmentalizing everything in their life, and sex happens to be one of those things. IMHO, it's very different for most women, b/c our emotions/feelings are attached to everything.......and it is never more obvious than when it comes to making love. For example, it's difficult for a wife to have sex when she can hear her small child in the next room, (it's even worse if the child is not so small and might hear the parents having sex). All the while her H is telling her to relax, the kids are fine......yada, yada. See what I mean? They are different creatures. If there is a problem between the H & W, he'll want to have sex to make up, while she needs to make up in order to desire sex.
(Oh me..........how did I get way over on this track? This is not exactly answering your question.)
If your primary love language is physical touch, then it seems logical that you desire to have that intimacy with your H. There is nothing wrong with you experiencing that need, b/c you still love him. But if you desire the physical connection b/c your self esteem is suffering and you want him to show that he still cares for you, or show some level of kindness, validation, admiration, tenderness, or whatever.........then I would have to wonder how healthy it could be for you. Someone else on the board might be more helpful. I admit I have too much pride when it comes to being intimate..........and I was the wayward in my MR. You and I come from opposite sides, so it is somewhat difficult for me to emotionally feel how a spouse wants to be intimate when their sorry spouse has been cheating.......and when their spouse has voluntarily moved out of the MBR. If there is another woman in the picture, then I couldn't. I have told some LB Wives to not withhold sex, when cheating was not involved. That's why I went into such a lengthen attempt to explain how I see the different approach with genders (which I don't think I've gotten around to talking about the LBW's approach).
I want to make sure that I'm not misunderstood and sound as if I'm saying it's fine to be intimate with a cheating spouse (regardless of the gender). IMHO, physical cheating defiles the marital bed, and the cheater needs to do more than just show up for sex, if a healthy reconciliation is in the near future. The fact that he returns to his separate bedroom after having sex with you........must feel like the biggest slap in your face. So, I am earnestly asking you........what are you seeking by having sex with him, again?
I'm sorry I made a mess out of this post. I would delete it, but I've invested too much time. Maybe I can finish it one day.
BTW, I really like that glimpse of you being all spunky.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi2, thanks for your post. You asked what I am seeking by being intimate with him. Well, for one thing, although touch is not my love language necessarily, I enjoy being intimate with him and it meets my needs. When I go weeks without sex, I become irritable and grumpy. Sad but true.
Second, physical touch is his love language. He has always had a HD and I feel like I rejected him way too much before BD. I was always tired from working all day then dealing with kids and chores, so I often shrugged him off when he showed interest in sex late at night. Part of me feels like showing interest in sex when he initiates may be part of my 180. I try not to have expectations but I don't want to push him farther away by rejecting him now as I did pre-BD. Also, it may sound silly but he doesn't seem as angry when we have been intimate. Living with an angry person even when they are in the basement is extra stressful. Dealing with the marital problems is enough without adding in a huge dose of anger.
So...part of the reason I do it is selfish and the other part is probably just foolish and wishful.
Last edited by HesAble; 01/09/2004:15 AM.
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
The thing that I struggle with is whether I should be intimate at all with him when he goes right back to his emotional distancing in the basement right after the deed is done. For those who are still intimate with a Wayward spouse, how did you deal with that?
IMHO, when it's the wife who is wayward and is having an affair (or conducting inappropriate behavior with OM) .......the LBH should not be intimate with her. Heck, I don't think he should even show any physical affection, b/c her waywardness is due to her lack of respect for him as a man. WW's will often use sex to manipulate the H, or use the H as the substitute sex tool while she fantasizes about OM. So, if she knows that her H knows about the OM, she will see her H wanting intimacy and affection as weakness. It doesn't make her think more of the LBH.....it builds the wall of disrespect even higher. The only thing a WW respects is strength. If her H wants to be intimate with her, knowing she has betrayed him and currently cheating........she will see him as being weak and see herself as being in a position of power, so to speak. It's unhealthy, and hard to recover from that level of disrespect. The goal of the LBH should be to, first, get his W's RESPECT for him as a man, before he engages in physical affection with her. Just b/c she offers it, doesn't mean rip! She is simply using him. I know that some men will read this and laugh, maybe joke with the other guys that they aren't going to turn down sex. But that's the thing........the WW manipulates him through sex, and if he can't turn her away when she is horribly betraying him, then she will see him as a pathetic excuse for a man. Even though some LBH's on the board may suggest it's okay just as long as they have no expectation...... I shake my head and think, HA! LBH's are fooling themselves. Don't have sex with someone who detests you.........especially if it is your WW.
Once the WW ends her affair and stops all contact with the OM and agrees to her H's conditions regarding reconciliation.........THEN he can have sex with her. I want to believe the same can be said about either spouse who has cheated, but realistically, I just think it's easier to get a wayward H back, than a WW.......b/c it isn't easy for a husband to get back lost respect. It's certainly not impossible, and that's why I try to share what I've learned from the WW side of the street. If there has been no infidelity, then I think it is a lot easier for a LBW to draw her H back, due to how men are wired.
It's a little complicated for me to put into words, but I believe men & women think & respond differently, b/c their makeup is not the same. Yes, they may see eye-to-eye, like the same things, and share the same moral and spiritual beliefs, etc..........but I'm not referring to those type of things. I mean how they respond to emotional type of things. Like, men may hear the same scenario as a woman, but they will respond differently due to how they are wired. They are two different creatures/beings. Certain behavior in men will stimulate a positive, even desirable response in women. However, it won't necessarily be the same actions/behavior that brings positive/desirable responses from men. Make sense? In order for a wife to feel desire for her husband, she has to feel respect for him as a man. (That's a little something God put in the woman after man messed up a good thing in the garden. ;)) I'm not saying it's not important for the H to respect the W, but I don't think it has the impact on his sexual love/desire, to the degree it has on the W. After marriage, traditionally, the H is placed as the leader over his family. Traditionally, he is the main provider and protector over his family. It's like he is the president and the W is vice-president. Even if they agree about most everything, if there is a disagreement, someone has to have the final say. If the W habitually calls the shots, then she will eventually lose respect for the H, and that will affect her level of desire. You see, the W has to accept that he is the president in their house, and whenever she tries to change that order.......there will be issues. I don't want anyone having a heart attack when they read this post.....or misunderstand what I'm trying to say about the W respecting her H. (This is why I said it's complicated for me to put into words.)
During the life span of the woman, she will have high drive, low drive, and no drive. I have read that men are capable of departmentalizing everything in their life, and sex happens to be one of those things. IMHO, it's very different for most women, b/c our emotions/feelings are attached to everything.......and it is never more obvious than when it comes to making love. For example, it's difficult for a wife to have sex when she can hear her small child in the next room, (it's even worse if the child is not so small and might hear the parents having sex). All the while her H is telling her to relax, the kids are fine......yada, yada. See what I mean? They are different creatures. If there is a problem between the H & W, he'll want to have sex to make up, while she needs to make up in order to desire sex.
(Oh me..........how did I get way over on this track? This is not exactly answering your question.)
If your primary love language is physical touch, then it seems logical that you desire to have that intimacy with your H. There is nothing wrong with you experiencing that need, b/c you still love him. But if you desire the physical connection b/c your self esteem is suffering and you want him to show that he still cares for you, or show some level of kindness, validation, admiration, tenderness, or whatever.........then I would have to wonder how healthy it could be for you. Someone else on the board might be more helpful. I admit I have too much pride when it comes to being intimate..........and I was the wayward in my MR. You and I come from opposite sides, so it is somewhat difficult for me to emotionally feel how a spouse wants to be intimate when their sorry spouse has been cheating.......and when their spouse has voluntarily moved out of the MBR. If there is another woman in the picture, then I couldn't. I have told some LB Wives to not withhold sex, when cheating was not involved. That's why I went into such a lengthen attempt to explain how I see the different approach with genders (which I don't think I've gotten around to talking about the LBW's approach).
I want to make sure that I'm not misunderstood and sound as if I'm saying it's fine to be intimate with a cheating spouse (regardless of the gender). IMHO, physical cheating defiles the marital bed, and the cheater needs to do more than just show up for sex, if a healthy reconciliation is in the near future. The fact that he returns to his separate bedroom after having sex with you........must feel like the biggest slap in your face. So, I am earnestly asking you........what are you seeking by having sex with him, again?
I'm sorry I made a mess out of this post. I would delete it, but I've invested too much time. Maybe I can finish it one day.
BTW, I really like that glimpse of you being all spunky.
This is great! I had to sign in just so I could reply. I would love for you to make a LBW post with suggestions. Men and women are sooo different. When I was in the thick of my sitch I always questioned whether certain things applied to me as most posters are LBH. Thanks again and I love everything you post!
I don't have any advice offerings. My BD was a year and a half ago. We reconciled at the end of 2018. I haven't read your whole sitch, only the beginning and the end of this thread. The beginning sounds very similar to mine minus the infidelity. He is also a very angry/negative person etc.
He immediately moved out post BD. We occasionally ML until I read some advice that it was definitely bad and it started making me feel worse when I did. He was angry but I was clear I would not be his friend with benefits. Probably month 4-5 post BD he started showing clear signs of more than temp checking, he asked me why I wasn't chasing him and did I still love him, do I even care anymore etc. Then one day out of the blue, mid month 5-ish, I get a text that just said "I love you!". A week later he asked to take me on a date, a week later he begged to take me on a date. I finally agreed. (I sent him a letter with all my requirements blah, blah)
Anyhow, when he asked to reconcile he stated he thought I was the reason for his unhappiness and he realized that all the problems he had were still there. That he should have loved me more, taken me on more dates. I'm just posting that there is hope. I don't think the ML changed my situation either way, idk. The grass wasn't greener.
Things are still really hard as I changed so much during that time and he is really struggling to be different. The things you mentioned such as household chores and general respect and love are still missing. Focus on you and whatever happens will be the best outcome either way.
Also, he was super annoyed and made comments throughout our separation about my GAL activities. He was really bothered that I didn't sit at home and actually started having a life outside of my house chores and kids.
I don't have any advice offerings. My BD was a year and a half ago. We reconciled at the end of 2018. I haven't read your whole sitch, only the beginning and the end of this thread. The beginning sounds very similar to mine minus the infidelity. He is also a very angry/negative person etc.
He immediately moved out post BD. We occasionally ML until I read some advice that it was definitely bad and it started making me feel worse when I did. He was angry but I was clear I would not be his friend with benefits. Probably month 4-5 post BD he started showing clear signs of more than temp checking, he asked me why I wasn't chasing him and did I still love him, do I even care anymore etc. Then one day out of the blue, mid month 5-ish, I get a text that just said "I love you!". A week later he asked to take me on a date, a week later he begged to take me on a date. I finally agreed. (I sent him a letter with all my requirements blah, blah)
Anyhow, when he asked to reconcile he stated he thought I was the reason for his unhappiness and he realized that all the problems he had were still there. That he should have loved me more, taken me on more dates. I'm just posting that there is hope. I don't think the ML changed my situation either way, idk. The grass wasn't greener.
Things are still really hard as I changed so much during that time and he is really struggling to be different. The things you mentioned such as household chores and general respect and love are still missing. Focus on you and whatever happens will be the best outcome either way.
Also, he was super annoyed and made comments throughout our separation about my GAL activities. He was really bothered that I didn't sit at home and actually started having a life outside of my house chores and kids.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It is always good to read about folks who were able to get through this. I am just doing my best not to get back on H's emotional roller coaster ride. He seems so confused. Some days I see a glimpse of the old H and then hours later he is right back to the new narcissistic H. Many times like this morning I have considered just throwing in the towel.
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
I am really fighting the urge to meet with a lawyer and just file for D at this point and it has only been 2-1/2 months past BD. I just want all this emotional pain to END...NOW!!! Those of you who have learned to patiently wait for many months or even years get a whole lot respect and admiration from me. I am starting to feel weak. I want to save my family, but I am starting to wonder if being exposed to H's staying out all night, living in the basement, going from being a very affectionate H to not showing any public affection to me in front of kids, etc. might be just as damaging as a D would be.
Lord give me strength...
Last edited by HesAble; 01/09/2008:08 PM.
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
I am really fighting the urge to meet with a lawyer and just file for D at this point and it has only been 2-1/2 months past BD. I just want all this emotional pain to END...NOW!!! Those of you who have learned to patiently wait for many months or even years get a whole lot respect and admiration from me. I am starting to feel weak. I want to save my family, but I am starting to wonder if being exposed to H's staying out all night, living in the basement, going from being a very affectionate H to not showing any public affection to me in front of kids, etc. might be just as damaging as a D would be.
Lord give me strength...
While my H did immediately move out after BD, I think there are pros and cons to IHS vs S. Sometimes I think being left alone is just as damaging, and I know H isn't in a mindset where he can even acknowledge or process that.
I'm also about 2.5 months after BD, and while there aren't a ton of similarities in what happened with my H and your situation, I will say, this has been an interesting exercise in patience (my biggest character weakness by far). Something that's helped me is trying to validate when I can be, and learn to be compassionate for my H. They're lost, too. It helps me also take stuff less personally. That makes the distance feel somewhat less damaging. It doesn't make me feel grand that H is also miserable during this time, but it at minimum gives some perspective.
The divorce is just a piece of paper and believe it or not, the emotional pain won't end when you've signed and dated on the dotted line. It will take some time to get your footing again.
For myself, I discovered that once the papers were signed, a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders because I knew my xh couldn't threaten and or attempt to bully me any longer. But I had a lot of financial stuff that needed to be sorted out and was only given 60 days to refinance my house or put it on the market. I was very lucky that my father loaned me the money to buy him out, and in turn, I refinanced my home through the exact same mortgage company very quickly once I explained what was going on.
Don't do anything hasty when you are emotional. Sit quietly and think about what you want to do. If you are sure that you want to go ahead w/a divorce, then we will be here to support you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Maybe I can finish it one day. 