TH, Doing well, thanks. Out to dinner with friends last night, attended Mass this morning, and dinner tonight with another group of friends.
Bubbs, Not to give you any false hope, but my W was the same way first few months. So much anger and resentment. Much of it has now subsided. During the rare times we get together (always at her initiative), we are civil, polite, and friendly with each other. She still wants D, but at least she is now assuming responsibility and no longer casting blame.
At Mass this morning, I was contemplating on the inner voice beckoning me to move ahead with certain plans. Right now, I feel if W wants to join me in the journey in which I think we each would derive much joy, that would be great. If not, then that would be her choice and I will have to learn to live with it.
Sounds like you are doing good Paco . TBH I would think at the moment she is not going to follow yet . Take it easy and slow down , continue being mr top Paco
Bubbs, Not to give you any false hope, but my W was the same way first few months. So much anger and resentment. Much of it has now subsided. During the rare times we get together (always at her initiative), we are civil, polite, and friendly with each other. She still wants D, but at least she is now assuming responsibility and no longer casting blame.
paco123, I was thinking about my polite W and your polite W. I realized for my W I think her behavior changed from anger/frustration to kind when I stopped pursuit. Was this true in your case? Or had your behavior been the same?
No, I was definitely groveling, pleading, begging during early days.
Having said that, I think W needed the amygdala hijack to settle down. W's departure was uncharacteristically cruel and thoughtless, hurting both me and the kids. Her grievances were all over the map: things I said to friends 15 years ago; missing a bill payment; not laughing at her jokes; emotions I confided honestly, which she considered inappropriate.
W now says she was in an emotional fog and can't even remember some of the things she said.
My W being "polite," as you put it, is part of the core issue. Much of her persona is tied to her being the polite and "nice" one. I suspect that if she recognized the version in her of that darkness inside all of us, and if she embraced it and forgave herself for it, it would go a long way in helping her forgive me for all grievances--whether legitimate or conjured from her own, internal story-telling.
Paco dood , hope you are ok today. I have had the exact same things from 8 years ago . “ you said I didn’t k is about phones !!” Get your validating badge . Learn , practice.
Have some sympathy for her , I am sure she is hurting a lot . You have got to be strong for both of you .
Now I still don’t know much about women ( I am learning) they expect us to know what they want. They are expert communicators, we men seem to be more visual and take our clues from body language I guess .
TH, thanks for the reminder of my need to be strong.
Journaling and journeying:
I think I'm in the position most of us are in: joyful about life except for that one very important piece, which at this point, detracts from the levels of joy I experienced in pre-BD times.
Been spending quite a bit of time with a person I recently met. She has a great deal of intelligence and emotional wisdom. She has been through two difficult divorces and provides a very helpful female perspective on relationships. She has spoken candidly about her own midlife transitions, the role of hormonal changes, and the stress imposed upon women by society's expectations. Her level of self-awareness impresses me.
Conversations with her have helped me regard W with more empathy. I would feel frustrated about W's lack of emotional disclosure, i.e. my thoughts ran along the lines of, "If, as you say, you felt so unhappy for so many years, why didn't you just talk to me?"
Now I appreciate that to disclose, one must have sufficient awareness of what and how to disclose.
I honestly don't know if W will ever reach the point of self-awareness and self-accountability, or to rediscover her love for me, that she would be willing to surrender self-protection and take the risk of reconciliation. It would take a huge dollop of courage for her to walk back from her walking away.
paco - I get it. I'm with you. We come at this from our own perspective and I don't know that we can ever truly see things through another's eyes.
Gaining perspective through others and conversations is always helpful to get out of our own heads. I do think it builds our empathy if we try to see from our W's perspective. But do we really know what they're going through? I feel like we're still speculating but just changing the lense.
You say that one must have self-awareness of what and how to disclose and that's true. But they also must have the desire. Sometimes I think for self-preservation it is easier to hold the pain tight to your chest and not invite anyone else in. I wonder how that might play into the equation.
Yail says: "Sometimes I think for self-preservation it is easier to hold the pain tight to your chest and not invite anyone else in."
I've been thinking same. We all go through (conscious or subconscious) emotional cost/benefit analyses.
Perhaps W's perceived benefit now may be avoidance of the pain she associates with me.
But at what cost? The joy I may bring to her life (which she does not perceive now); the presence I bring to her family (as I am close to her mom and nephews and nieces); the stability of family unit we have fought so hard to provide for our children?
A part of her is aware of this. At the time W walked away, she said, "It's time for me to focus on myself." She used language like, "I'm tired of accommodating..." and "It's time I gave myself allowance..."
I understand we all go through periods in life when we need to focus on ourselves. As the flight attendants tell us, "Tend to your own oxygen mask first, because if you don't, you will be in no position to help others."
But I do think that ultimately, joy is like a butterfly constantly flitting away as I pursue it. When I turn my gaze outwards to the needs of others, joy comes to me unbidden.
I DO understand W needs the oxygen mask right now. Will joy come eventually? I am sure of it. When that time comes, will she choose to come back? Only God knows. (And she's far too subtle for me at times.)
paco, I think you make a mistake in trying to apply intellectual process to the emotional processes that your W is feeling. Yes, this new resource is self-aware, but did she exhibit that same level of self-awareness through her two divorces? I would argue that it is very unlikely. Otherwise, she probably would not be twice divorced. What your W is going through cannot be explained through intellectual review. There is no intelligence involved with following one's whim based on emotions. Most of us married strong-willed, determined women. My wife holds a Bachelor's degree and was very successful in her vocational life due to the fact that she is decisive, resolute, and not prone to changing her mind related to important decisions. Like the decision that she wanted a divorce.
I fear that you trying to approach this from an intellectual viewpoint causes you to overlook the fact that your wife is not acting on intelligence. She is acting on pure emotion. And when one acts on pure emotion, no matter how resolute they may be when they are acting on intelligence, they are always prone to change later. Emotion is fleeting. Emotion evolves. Emotions have no basis in immutable facts.
I say all of that to summarize thusly: just because your wife feels that her current course is best right now, doesn't mean the emotions that decision is based on won't change down the line. So while you are waiting for a dollop of courage, really what she needs is for her walkaway fog to lift in order for her to realize that her decision doesn't make sense based on reason, as opposed to emotion.
And with time and space that fog can lift. In fact, my sitch is a perfect example of that very occurrence. And that is with a W that is as resolute and determined in her pronouncements as anyone's. In fact, in terms of stubbornness, I would put my W up against anyone else's W. She is as stubborn as they come, and I can provide a myriad of examples related to just how stubborn she can be.
So there is always hope. Also paco, I would be remiss if I didn't ask: is this new "dollop of courage" requirement theory based on the fact you really believe that? Or on the fact that there is a growing attraction to this new lady?
Last edited by Steve85; 03/25/1906:42 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
