I have just stumbled across DB a few days ago and I don't feel so alone in what I am going through but I would like to give my personal situation so I can gather as much support as I can from you guys and gals!! So here goes..
Myself (35) and my W (35) have been together 15 years and M for almost 8. Children 5f, 2m and a 13f is my biological daughter and my W's stepdaughter. I'll explain that later. Our anniversary is coming up on 7/17. So to start out... before we were married, we were dating for 6 mo I had a ONS with another woman and got her pregnant. My W stayed with me although there was a period where we were separated. This was all 13 years ago. Through this time she has treated my daughter as her own and they are great together. Definitely had ups and downs but no major issues like lately. Not fast forward to now, well four years ago...
Disclaimer: I have not had a connection or even an inappropriate conversation with any woman since 2003 as I know what it would do and I have no desire to be with any other woman but my W.
Things from marriage in 2010 were pretty good with normal ups and downs. We had our first child together Feb of 2013. And shortly after my W began training for a body building contest and her results were well... HOLY GOD SHES HOT!! About a year later, she developed what I felt was an inappropriate friendship with a former co-worker. She and OM1 text A LOT on FB. They met up for lunch, which she told me about before and I told her I was fine with it. Before I knew the extent of it... There was no heavy sexual texting but there were some days they would text 50+ times per day. I felt it was bordering EA and I thought that amount was a lot. Once I realized how serious it was, I confronted her about it and let it go. It took a few weeks for her to completely let go. But, it ended then as far as I know. Although, I felt terrible because I ended what she saw as nothing more than a friendship and I saw it as a potential threat of becoming more and very inappropriate. I believe she resents me for that.
We had our second child in September of 15, he was a surprise for sure but we are so glad he made it into our lives. We wanted a boy. Our children love us very much.
About a year later she started training again.. To give some insight, her personal trainer's name is Blain (this is important later) and he's a stand up guy that I know and trust. She goes to the gym at her work every day m-f and if she has a weekend workout she goes to Planet Fitness. Side note, my 13 yo went with her one time, comes home and says to me "dad, everyone was checking out her butt". I found it funny and hot, which I shouldn't. Her workout clothes are not suggestive though. And I really don't worry about a gym guy A because she rarely goes on weekends. She has a weekly meal plan so we eat different meals and sometimes at different times. Sometimes I feel that lifestyle, although I support her 100%, has assisted in the decline of our M. I am athletic but not super muscular and I don't work out. I'm more skinny than anything. 5'10" 155 lbs. I was going to the gym between having our kids and was looking the best I've ever looked along with her. Need to get back to that mindset... Ok, back on track...
I have been traveling for work a lot as a drone pilot (yes, thats a thing) since Jan of 16 and travel really picked up in Jan of 2017 when I started FT with a company. I was traveling out of town about 100 days in 2017 and was typically gone from Monday to Thu or Fri. When I am not out of town, I work from home. I also started focusing a lot of attention on my hobby, racing drones. I have several sponsors and I was dedicating the majority of my free time to drones, both work and hobby, very little to my children and nearly none to my wife. I would help with dinner and getting the kids bathed but I would immediately go to my workshop after. We had sex but I never felt it was genuine. I believe this was because I had lost trust in her from the previous inappropriate friendship and was not interested in her as much because of it. Although I was eventually able to just leave it behind and I though our sex life was really improving.
In Jan of 17, she started new classes for school and had one class she had to attend per week and the rest were online. In this class, she met a classmate, conveniently named Blain... ENTER OM2! YES OM2! (now there are two Blain's, the OM2 and her trainer). She and OM2 got along and they would chat on FBM about school and joke about the teachers, small talk in the initial stage. It never hit me that there were two Blain's though until I happened to cross paths with a friend that told me he saw W at lunch at a restaurant a couple days earlier with the OM2 and he didn't know the OM2. So I looked at her messages, confirmed it was the OM2 she met and found they had been chatting all throughout the day sending inappropriate texts. Not sexts, just inappropriate texts ("Good morning beautiful", "Goodnight sweetheart" "can't wait till class". It wasn't until then that I realized it had turned into a mild EA. And this was covered up by the convenience of OM2 having the same name as W's trainer. After reviewing the messages, some days there over 100 texts. At this point I confronted her about it, and she swore it was just a friendship. But I told her I believed her intentions but felt the friendship was more of a secret than what she led it on to be. Again I felt terrible asking her to end a friendship that I felt threatened by. But I feel a secret friendship of any kind doesn't belong in a M. I think my confronting it didn't help with the main contributing factor being the class was also over so they had no outside contact. The EA with OM2 ended in May 17, as far as I know.
I had really let it go for the most part (it's hard to forget) and got back on the path of trying to believe everything was OK, but I was still pretty wrapped up in the things I was doing. I tried to stay in tune with her and the kids but really felt we were falling apart. We still had sex but there were several occasions where it was awkward and even once where I went cold about 10 minutes in. I was thinking about the past. I'm sure she felt it was her or maybe she didn't, IDK. But at that point we were definitely not connecting. I was not helping much with anything around the house. When I was home and able, instead of getting the kids, I would have her get them from daycare after driving 40 min from work. Only to come home to a house where she felt nothing had been done. Most of the time I had the house pretty straight and dishes done but if I didn't it was attitude. Even if I had cleaned thoroughly she would pick things I didn't do and go to doing them, with an attitude. The old question "is something wrong" would always get a "no" reply. Then later or days later an unleashing of the things I don't do would come out. And I would argue right back and throw stones, reminding her of the "frienships" she has had, etc... MOVING ONNNN!
Keep reading! There's an OM3!!! We're in August 2017 now and I have been traveling for work almost every other week. My wife had gone to FL to visit a friend and got a huge tattoo on her chest. Like diamond shaped and 10"x10". Its big. I remember her showing me a couple tattoo designs ( I probably wasn't interested) but I didn't realize she was getting it on her chest that big. But I thought it was sexy, so I didn't mind. She did say she was getting a tat and may have been specific but I didn't hear or wasn't into the convo, apparently. She also went skydiving, something we talked about doing together and something she didn't tell me she was going to do down there. A few weeks later she wanted to go to a Tattoo place in Columbus. I agreed to go and it was actually a surprise and she was going to buy me one for my BDay and get hers as well. She paid her deposit and not mine. I got my ideas together and sent pics but never got a design back. She went to her appointment a week later and got hers. I still not received anything back from the artist and it turns out it my ideas were never given to him, thanks to my W. Between Aug and Sept she got two more tattoos from the same artist. AND.... ENTER OM3! It turns out she and OM3 have been exchanging quit the onslaught of text messages including things like "we should get together and have fun", "I can't wait to see you" coming from my W. There were pictures sent that were not "friend" approved. They had "bath time" which was started out as him posting a story on IG and her responding with a pic of her legs in the bath. Then it became a DM thing. She even mailed him bath bombs as a gift. October 1, our long time friend called me, he and his GF just broke up and he was feeling like crap. He has been our friend since he was 14 and totally not a threat. I called her and told her she should take him out and have a good time to get his mind off everything. I even planned the sitters, and I was working in WI. What an idiot I am. Last we text she was on her way to his apartment. I had been driving all day and fell asleep early. She text and asked if I was alive, then said good night. I woke up at 5AM. I text her around 7AM and she said she had to go back to our friend's to get her jacket. I just thought she left and forgot it and had to go back. The reality was, the night before she had text OM3 and told him she was going to be in his area. Then when she got to our friends apartment she text OM3 that she was headed to a bar, OM3 suggested she come to a different bar. So she took our friend to the other bar where OM3 was. Our friend was wasted and doesn't remember anything although he did recall seeing OM3 at the new bar. W said later in text to OM3 she should't have got our friend that wasted, because she bought his drinks. He said he was blacked out. So my W takes our drunk friend back to his apartment where he pukes everywhere and she helps him to bed. Then texts OM3 how she feels uncomfortable staying there. She claims she went to the car to get her purse and got locked out and they wouldn't let her in because our friend was not responding because he was blacked out and they wouldn't open his door. So she goes back to her car where she claims she realized if she has the car on and the cops show up she will get a DUI. It was Oct 1 and she said it was cold but I looked at the weather history and it was 51 degrees outside at 3AM. So she text OM3 and jokes that she could stay at his place. He accepts, sends address and she drives drunk to his apartment. She claims she slept on the couch and they discussed life in general and didn't really talk about our M. She said nothing happened. BUT I didn't find out about all of this until NOVEMBER!!! When I finally checked her messages. I somehow missed that see she stayed the night with OM3. So I only confronted her about meeting OM3 at the bar. She never mentioned she stayed the night and I didn't realize this until recently. I'm so stupid. Although the holidays weren't bad there was still tension. She continued the EA all the way into March and got another two tattoos by OM3 by this point. Mid March she planned a trip with a female friend to go to Chicago. I had no clue it was another secret meet up. I even rented her a car with my points I got from work (her car was in the shop). I thought it was a great chance for her to get away and hang with her GF. Little did I know this was also a trip to go to a tattoo convention and meet up with OM3. But that part was left out because she "knew I would freak out". My answer.. Then why go?? But nonetheless I asked her about going and she lied and told me no. There was picture evidence that suggested otherwise and a CC charge at a convention center that confirmed my suspicion. I was then working in NY for the week and I confronted her via video chat and told her I knew she was lying to me and she admitted but there was no remorse. Now instead of breaking it off with OM3, she went straight to Snapchat. Their last IG message was W: Hey. OM3: Hey (Deleted Message). OM3: About what? Which tells me the deleted message was her telling him "we need to talk". They continued the EA through May and I do not know if there were any other meet ups. I worked and raced out of town for most of April and May so I couldn't "work on us" or even focus on us at the time. Although I did fly her to CO to hang out for four days before I had to work there the following week. She was constantly on her phone texting. Finally I had a break in travel and racing starting June 1. I noticed my mom had given my W the Love Dare book and I saw it laying on my W's dresser. I was really starting to feel the disconnection so I took her to "talk" because I knew something was up. On this walk/talk I heard things like "I don't feel anything for you anymore" and "we're so far gone" "I just want to be happy" but never "I want a divorce" and never "I'm sorry". Later, I was given the "this is it, last chance" ultimatum. June and July have been slow for work so I was home the entire month of June. I started doing all the husbandly things I wasn't doing before but it doesn't work. I have lost the passion for my hobby because I know it is part of the cause. But it makes me happy. I have tried to forget about the past and be positive but I find myself negative only to realize I'm being that way because of the things I am thinking of which just makes it all more of a rollercoaster than it already is. I nicely confronted the OM3 on IG and he said he told her she needed to figure it all out and has blocked her. IDK if they have had any communication since June 6. As bad as this sounds, I don't want OM3 to end up being the stepfather of my kids because I will hate him forever for his role.
Happy side note... My 13yo's stepdad, couldn't ask for a better co-parent, he's great!
In all of this, I can say we have kept it together pretty well around our children. Especially our 13yo as she is a smart kid and has probably seen changes in our relationship. I don't believe our 5yo and 2yo are aware at all.
If you've made it this far you may understand why I am here. My wife has said she is done, I am not. We are still living together and for the last few days, getting along. I think more for the sake of just not arguing. But I've stopped the questioning and done my best to stop letting my feelings get in the way to start an argument or be sneer and short. I have realized only she can make the decision for us to be together and I cannot convince her of anything. She has to figure it out on her own. I have found that everything that I have read on DB is true and relative and that I am far from alone in this. I have broken so many rules, its pathetic. I have had so many emotions running through me lately that I have never felt, depression, anxiety, guilt and some of the biggest fears that I have never wanted to confront. But today, July 8, 2018 I start my journey to be the best I can be for myself and my children. Today starts a brand new me. A healthier, stronger - mentally and physically (I hate the gym but I'm going to go), and most important... A happier me. With happiness for myself, I will find happiness with my children and life as a hole... with or without her.
NO REGERTS!! <----OM3 was a tattoo guy. LOL
Thank you so much everyone! I have rules to study.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Kels, welcome to the board. You will get the advice and support you are looking for here.
Your sitch has many similarities to mine. The good news is that my W and I have been in R since March. Amazingly the woman I married comes back a little more with each passing day.
I tell you that to tell you that there is hope. However, you cannot count on R. You have to prepare yourself for the worst. My advice to newbies is usually the same:
Let her go to get her back. I didn't see any desire in my W to R until I let her go. This is the most important thing you can do is to REALLY let her go. This means no snooping. No questioning. You can't even care what she does. You can only control you, she is going to do what she wants. And what she wants is to be happy.
180! It sounds like you are doing this. You have to change the behaviors that got you here. That doesn't mean you become her slave but that you just take stock of your contributions to your current MR problems, and fix those behaviors.
GAL! This one is probably the most important. Because how well you do this will determine how well you detach. Those that struggle the most at detachment are those that do not concentrate enough on GAL. Get out there. Meet people, make new friends. Do not give up your droning. Reconnect with old buddies. Do guy things! You should stay busy. This even includes at home. When you are home be busy, stay engaged with the kids. Make them your #1 priority.
None of us knows the future Kels, but one thing I can say. If you try to pursue or pressure her, you have a 99.5% chance of ending up D'd. If you detach (let her go), 180, and GAL, there is a 50/50 chance. No guarantees, but DBing gives you the best chance of saving your M.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
THE FIRST 12... Oh the strength it takes to be serious about the rules. I am starting my journey by focusing mainly on abiding by the rules, at least for the first few days. I will read them several times a day to keep them fresh. It feels sooo good to recognize that you're straying and a rule pops into mind. BOOM! Back on track.
I must say, My W has been a bit different as of the last few days. Although, I saw the rule list about that time and I may have been unknowingly applying some of them. She has been a bit more "around" and not so avoiding and a bit more talkative. I really don't think she is talking to OM3 any more, but I will not let my guard down. We have convo's about things I am doing this week (RC/Nerd Festival, LOL) as well as her plans to go to her parents house in PA with the kids. We have always been able to discuss things about the kids, and I believe that is a great thing.
Last night was a hard test of my new journey. I broke my collar bone several years ago and had to have a plate put in. Broke it into 5 pieces, ten screws in total... Anyhow I was having some really bad muscle cramps last night and was having trouble bearing the pain it was causing. I got up to get some Advil, she suggested some icy hot, which I put some on then sat down on the bed and she began rubbing my back. She hasn't touched me (that way) in a month. I wanted to enjoy it so much but all I could think about was the rules. I thought, maybe this is the 50% of what she does that I should believe... Well, maybe, but F that. It's a trap! Back on track. I laid back down, said thank you and fell asleep.
She gets up around 5:15 and I normally get up around 5:30. Typically she is at the kitchen table eating. I snag a cup of coffee, we do say good morning to each other, normally. Today she said it first so I replied the same. Got my cup and headed to my office/garage. She gets ready for work and heads out about 6:45 every day. This is pretty normal. When she comes out, she takes her things to the car and comes back to the door of the garage where I meet her. Today she offered a hug which I returned to not be rude and then let me know our boy was awake, etc. I told her have a great day and went in to hang with my boy. No texting today as I have a lot of things to do and I want to get them all finished and keep my mind on track.
I plan to keep this thread updated as much as possible. I have discussed a lot of this with my parents up to this point. No more breaking that rule. You guys are my ear now.
What Steve said is right. The quicker you get strong, the quicker you detach and let her go, the better things will get.
Are you seeing an counselor? Have you discussed marriage counseling with your wife? If so, what did she say?
If you get intel (like looking at her phone) and find evidence of a physical affair, don't confront her right away. Bring the info here before stepping on your own toes.
I hate to say it, but I imagine she has slept with one or more of these guys. She doesn't have clean boundaries. And her willingness to engage other men like this and stay the night don't bode well for the idea of her not sleeping with them. Why couldn't she text you to pick her up?
I don't think married people should be alone with people of the opposite sex. Mike Pence has it right on this one. There's just no point. Men and women can't be "just friends". That's a rule, don't make exceptions as they just aren't necessary to a good relationship or marriage.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I don't think married people should be alone with people of the opposite sex. Mike Pence has it right on this one. There's just no point. Men and women can't be "just friends". That's a rule, don't make exceptions as they just aren't necessary to a good relationship or marriage.
Funny how excoriated he gets for that too. Imagine if all married men and women practiced this policy? How much better would the world be?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Are you seeing an counselor? Have you discussed marriage counseling with your wife? If so, what did she say?
Why couldn't she text you to pick her up?
I have been seeing a counselor for 6 weeks and his advice is a lot different than here. More about trying my best to stay focused on her and positive. But I think that is not the right approach.
Last night was a hard test of my new journey. I broke my collar bone several years ago and had to have a plate put in. Broke it into 5 pieces, ten screws in total... Anyhow I was having some really bad muscle cramps last night and was having trouble bearing the pain it was causing. I got up to get some Advil, she suggested some icy hot, which I put some on then sat down on the bed and she began rubbing my back. She hasn't touched me (that way) in a month. I wanted to enjoy it so much but all I could think about was the rules. I thought, maybe this is the 50% of what she does that I should believe... Well, maybe, but F that. It's a trap! Back on track. I laid back down, said thank you and fell asleep.
Kels, good instincts here.
After my BD for the next two days my W was very affectionate. Holding my hand, rubbing my back, sitting close to me where ever we were (it was through the holidays). Later, when I mentioned this during one of the many ill-adviced R talks we had, she claimed it was because she knew I was in pain (emotionally).
It had NOTHING, ZERO to do with her wanting to R or work on the MR. You are right, its a trap. It is a trap to get you to let your guard down to make it easier for them to leave without feeling guilty.
This is why "believe nothing they say and only half of what they do" is so so so very important.
Please make sure to update us on anything of importance related to your sitch.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Are you seeing an counselor? Have you discussed marriage counseling with your wife? If so, what did she say?
Why couldn't she text you to pick her up?
I have been seeing a counselor for 6 weeks and his advice is a lot different than here. More about trying my best to stay focused on her and positive. But I think that is not the right approach.
I was in Wisconsin for work and we live in Ohio.
Most counselors are classically trained in MC. They will focus on reconnecting. Their methods are pursuit and pressure.
I agree with him on staying positive. Loving detachment is being pleasant, pleased, upbeat in your W's presence. But not "focused" on her. That is where is classic MC training is coming in.
Reconnecting is great advice for couples where both spouses want to work on the MR. But when one is a WAS, then reconnection attempts are counter-productive.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I have so much advice but Im not sure how o parse it out in an efficient way that will help you right now. Kind of like aiming a fire hose through a needle, ya know?
But step 1 has got to be figuring out how to get your sense of self-respect back. Your wife has had three affairs of various degrees, and all you are doing is 'letting it go'? I dont really understand that. You are still trying to play pretend marriage while your W goes out and does whatever it is she wants without any consequence? Im not saying that you should go up and start throwing this in her face. What I am saying is that you need to follow the rules not just to try to 'win' her back, but to have the space to find out what is important to you in a partner. I want you to really read the DR book and work to set goals for how you envision your future...make sure you know what you want and set a plan to get there.
Im also concerned because youve been living with some amount of mistrust for years and years on both sides of the fence - how can you maintain a stable relationship with all of that going on? Its interesting to me that you had a child with another woman but because that was 13 years ago, its glossed over. Meanwhile, you write several pages of info on your wife's activities. Do you think she is healed from what happened 13 years ago?
