Yes you are right. I need to get to that place where it doesn’t matter. I’m still doing it hoping it changes her view of me instead of focusing on it changing me.
One area I’m confused about is cuddling in bed. It’s one thing we’ve always done befoe this but I was was always the initiator. In our counselling sessions she said she still likes when I do it but is it chasing behaviour. Should I stop doing yet until she recommit to the marriage?
She’s told me a few times that she’s shut me out and the reason is she had a baby out of love for me and that was a bad decision, and she can never let me in again. Our councillor thinks she’s afraid to commit again and this is how she is reacting.
So, she starting shutting you out after getting back to a good place in MC? Does she act as if she is afraid of getting pregnant?
What kind of MR did her parents have? Any fidelity? Abandonment by her parents?
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She went through a war and was a sibling of a special needs kid. Both her parents emotionally neglected her and have her no boundaries.
This could be key to her not desiring to be held down by her own child, and sees her life as a parent.....all serious and gloom. Do you think there could be a connection?
Did it strike you odd for her to say over the years that she would probably have a MLC? Has she mentioned a MLC to the MC? IMHO, rather than spending money on MC, it would seem the priority should be for her to see a psychologist about her childhood, her experience with/from having a special needs sibling, issues with no boundaries from her parents.......and whatever shaped her preconceived ideas of her future. The psychologist may also encourage her to see a hormone balancing specialist, just to see if she needs help in that area, as well.
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One area I’m confused about is cuddling in bed. It’s one thing we’ve always done befoe this but I was was always the initiator. In our counselling sessions she said she still likes when I do it but is it chasing behaviour. Should I stop doing yet until she recommit to the marriage?
Was she the one saying it was chasing behavior........or are you saying it? Maybe pull back on initiating the cuddling, and see if she initiates.
Look, if this was a case of her being a WW.......I would be the first one to jump up and say, "No more cuddling"! Currently, I am not really getting that vibe about her. Just to clarify, having an affair is not right, in any MR. Can you give us more relationship background, or tell us more about her growing up years?
Her behavior may have nothing to do with her past. She may simply prefer living the Girls Gone Wild lifestyle, and see a child as weight holding her down....IDK. But you have noticed a considerable change in her ever since she gave birth, so there is a physical or mental link to something else. I can't see how MC will benefit, if her problems stems from other issues. Of course, you can't make her see a doctor or psychologist. I'm just saying if she would agree to see a MC, she might agree to see a psychologist......and then meet with a MC later. Do you feel that your MC is getting to the root cause of the problem?
Is she having sex outside of the M?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
After we started resolving our issues after her depression she then started pulling away. She talking about not having any fun in her life. It was all too serious and I was part of that. She’s on contraception so no danger of getting pregnant.
Parents have a marraiage where they live separately and don’t have much to do with each other but aren’t divorced. No infidelity but massive abondanent issues by her parents towards her.
I didn’t really find it odd bout her mentioning MLC as I didn’t know how big/crazy it can be. I thought it would be something we would go through togeether not be the main enemy.
I definitely think there is a connection and so does the MC. She has her own psych she has been seeing for years but that psych is just happy that she has come out of depression. This psych recommended we see the MC. The MC is now challenging her to discuss the deeper abandonement and commitment issues with her psych and I believe he’s got to the root problem.
No she didn’t say the cuddling was chasing behaviour and right now it’s the only physical contact we have. I’ve pulled back for a while but she didn’t initiate. So I don’t know whether to stop it or not.
Growing up she was out a lot but from what i know she only had a handful of relationships and I was the big love. I don’t much about them as she didn’t really talk about her past relationships. I was the first guy she brought home to her parents. She’s grown up very responsible and serious and has OCD which makes her yearning for fun understandable. I just wish it was fun they won’t destroy our marriage.
No sex outside marriage as far as I’m aware of. I’ve told her repeatedly that this is my boundary and if she crosses it I’m leaving the marriage. She’s said a few times that she wish that I would go sleep with someone so it’ll take the pressure off of her as she can’t be everything to me. We’ve never been really dependent on each other but I think she feels like that now.
Reading about MLC, it does feel like she’s in one as she’s very self-centred and focused on looking young and takes pride in a men saying she looks hot or looks young. Is that a WW, I’m not sure.
After we started resolving our issues after her depression she then started pulling away
That doesn't make sense. Who said she was no longer depressed?
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I didn’t really find it odd bout her mentioning MLC as I didn’t know how big/crazy it can be. I thought it would be something we would go through togeether not be the main enemy.
IJMHO, a MLC is more than just turning 50 and buying a red convertible, as some people tend to believe. It has psychological roots to unresolved trauma during their growing up years.
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I definitely think there is a connection and so does the MC. She has her own psych she has been seeing for years but that psych is just happy that she has come out of depression. This psych recommended we see the MC. The MC is now challenging her to discuss the deeper abandonement and commitment issues with her psych and I believe he’s got to the root problem.
Well, so much for the psych! Was he the one who decided she was no longer depressed? To me, it sounded as if he didn't know anything else to do with her.....so he recommended MC. Maybe the MC will get to the root better than the psych.
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No she didn’t say the cuddling was chasing behaviour and right now it’s the only physical contact we have. I’ve pulled back for a while but she didn’t initiate. So I don’t know whether to stop it or not.
Based on what you previously said about needing physical closeness, I suspect it is more you who is needing the cuddling, rather than her.
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No she didn’t say the cuddling was chasing behaviour and right now it’s the only physical contact we have. I’ve pulled back for a while but she didn’t initiate. So I don’t know whether to stop it or not.
I think you mistake her reason for not having sex (to your knowledge) outside the M. It is not b/c she is dependent on you! You may be dependent on her......but don't think for a second it's the other way around. IMHO, she believes what you told her you would do if you find out she's had sex. I think she will test you, before it's over......but so far, she apparently believes you enough not to let you find out. Don't set boundaries you can't back up. Many guys say what you did, until they find out the W has already had sex. Then they discover it's not so easy for them to walk away.
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Reading about MLC, it does feel like she’s in one as she’s very self-centred and focused on looking young and takes pride in a men saying she looks hot or looks young. Is that a WW, I’m not sure.
Actually, they both are guilty of being self-centered, when you stop and think about the pain their actions are causing. And as Cadet said, a MLC usually involves an affair of some type. Being selfishly motivated sounds like a wayward. She may not be in a MLC. Some H's label their WW as having a MLC......but it's not always the truth. Some of the "signs" may look as if they overlap in places. But if she's be under a psych's care for years......it seems there are some issues that has plagued her for a while now.
The wayward W is filled with years (usually) of resentment and disrespect toward the H, and finally acts out in rebellion against him and their M. She has a sense of entitlement, and her H is often a man with nice guy syndrome. Her outward show of disrespect for H becomes obvious. She gives him cr@p and he takes it. All she cares about is how she'll benefit best in every situation, or else she's not interested in it. So, a WW may stay in the M, b/c she benefits from it financially, family-wise, comfort or convenience. Her anger is directed at her H. She blames everything negative on him! She doesn't usually seek "help" to resolve her problems, b/c she believe he is the problem! She doesn't care to seek help in straightening herself out, however, some WW's will play the game, and find a counselor who is not pro-marriage and will encourage her to do whatever makes her happy, regardless of the consequences. The WW is not interested in saving the MR, b/c she feels emotionally divorced. She lives in a fantasy world of her own creation. (As you can see, I could on & on about the subject of waywards).
If you read the link in Cadet's welcome post......Help for Newcomer LBH's with a WW.....it might help you determine if she is wayward, if you see her in the descriptions and scenarios given.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Your w has said many of the things to you that my w has said to me. Having an unwanted that triggers a crisis.
Physically, their bodies have changed. Many women don’t like their post baby bodies and this causes untold anxiety that most men will never understand.
Socially, there are different marital and societal expectations. In most instances, everyone just assumes that the mother is thrilled to have a baby and isn’t everything just amazing? But when she says to herself, no I did not want this baby and this life and I’ve lost my freedom, that is a mental health crisis.
Professionally, some women will blame their Hs or their babies for ruining their careers and earning potential.
Spiritually, they may questtion everything. And desperate for a solution to their inner angst, may seek out new beliefs including about monogomy. It’s unnatural to be with only one man!
They second guess everything and are full of regret and anxiety. Why did I sleep with him? Why didn’t we use birth control? Why didn’t I have an abortion? Now I am tied to this man and baby forever.
And then there is the shame and depression. I shouldn’t be having these thoughts! I am a terrible person. What’s wrong with me?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Thanks for the posts. Yes I agree that she’s maybe not having a MLC and she’s probably a WW. Right now her stance is that since the baby, which is now 4 years ago, she felt obligated to have sex, even if she was in pain. I also put pressure on her to start having sex again when her libido was non existent. Now she can’t let go of the trauma that having sex with me at that time has caused her. Our therapist recommended sensate therapy to try and get over those mental blockers but she doesn’t want to do anything that requires mental effort. That’s the cause for her wanting to sleep around. She doesn’t have to deal with this mental trauma that’s associated with me. I’ve told her that if we don’t get through this that I will be leaving the marriage but she doesn’t want to break our family apart over it. She thinks I’m selfish for wanting to leave because we can’t live together and be separated. So not sure what to do next. I’m still GAL and detaching. The more I detach though the less I feel connected with her.
