If you go down the path of recon it will be the hardest thing ever. I struggle not to leave my W and family every day.
You have to leave all judgement at the door. You have to find a way to start those hard talks without being judgemental. She most likely has a lot of shame and guilt and until she feels you are safe, she will say things to pacify you. But once she sees you are safe she will open up and let the hurt out.
You have been hurt no doubt, but it isn't your job to punish her.
My W broke down the other day after some really hard convos. She said she wanted to walk in front a bus. She told me everyday she is dealing with her guilt and shame. I really felt sorry for her. I try my hardest not to judge her or make her feel even more shame and guilt. There's GOD and her own struggle for that.
Has your W told you she wants to be back in the M? If so you are going to have to take the lead on those tough talks. What I will tell your W, if I was you was. "For this M to heal I need the truth from you about why you did what you did. The answers you have been giving me are not enough. In order for us to work on a new M, there has to be truth and transparency, and I feel like you are not providing either." You can also say, Im not here to judge you, I'm here to be your husband. And end with I want this M to work but that won't happen without honesty.
Here's the thing when she starts to tell you the truth, you will know and you have to not condemn or judge her, if you do she will shut off again.
This is going to be the most vulnerable place you will ever be in, for the both of you. Be prepared for the pain on both sides.
Onward and forward
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
She has no health insurance right now, but I really want her to get checked out for an STD's. How would I go about bringing that up. I know how I would do it and I would just say it straight out and not sugar coat it at all because why should I.
I don't think there's any need to sugarcoat it. Just straight up tell her it is one of your conditions if and when the two of you recon.
Quote:
At this point I am feeling like I don't want to communicate all that much with her because all I want to do is go back into the things she did because I don't believe she is doing anything to address them and is getting off easy and that is not the impression I want her to have and I believe it will only lead to more problems if she doesn't deal with it and I feel she isn't.
After an A the cheater just wants to sweep it all under the rug and pretend it didn't happen while the cheated-on spouse wants to hear every last detail. The trick is finding middle ground, that usually involves you accepting you won't get every last detail and her accepting that she needs to share more info than she wants to. This is where a good MC can be very helpful.
Regarding her getting off light, unless she has icewater in her veins then she is likely going through a lot of guilt and remorse over her actions. What Joe said about his W is pretty typical of when a WAS finally accepts what they've done, and it might be what your W is going through right now as well.
Originally Posted By: Cali08
What are things that would be happening if my wife is really wanting to reconcile and make things work? So far she isn't impressing me at all with how she is going about it.
The distance is a problem. It's hard for her to show you any actions with that much distance between you. It sounds like she is reaching out to you more and talking more about the future, so those are positive signs that she is being genuine. Going back to what I said earlier though, I think you need to ask her what her plans are after this temp job is over. Again don't lead her, just ask her what her plans are. How she responds will tell you a lot about where her head is.
My wife is still very angry and when I call her ouot on it she tries to turn it against me for being to sensitve to it, which is absolute crap because it's just being disrespectful to me when I am not being that way towards her. She likes to try and play the victum when she knows deep down she isn't right. She tries to play this game of turning the tables around on me and get me defensive so she can be on the attack. I was talking to her last night and I was being very open and honest with her, which I said I would be and it made her angry. Her tone completely changes and she gets aggressive and when
I called her on being angry she said she isn't at all, but now that I said that she is. I gaurantee not one person hearing that conversation would think that she wasn't angry. She will then try to bring up how her and her family talks to each other and it's this disrespectful idea that she is trying to throw at me, which is total crap because I have obviously seen and know how they talk to each other and it's not like that at all. I had to tell I don't care how she talks to her mother, father, brother or sister, but they are not me and that is not how I want to be talked too. Then she tries to bring up this idea that she has to be totally submissive to me and be this totally different person because that is the only way she can get along with me. Then she said it's always "My way or the highway" which is another absolute lie and I honestly think a distraction from having to deal with the real problems with in her and what she has done to our marriage.
What she calls being submissive, as I look back on our marraige and it was something I know I did wrong, was her being overly compromising and me not compromising enough. She has turned it into this idea in her head that I was this all controlling monster it seems, which no one in their right mind, if they knew me or not, would ever think about any relationship I have. Funny thing is that very person she decided to cheat with is exactly that and I have proof of it, not to mention the fact that he continually reffered to her as a B1tch and saying things like she knows the rules and if she messes up then it's over. Further more, she was completely submissive to this guy and he was a total A-hole, but she had no problem with that at all. How does she even work that in her head is beyound me.
After talking to her last night I do beleive it's time to have another conversation about her adultry and why all these things she said to be that are the problem in our marraige weren't any issue at all in their little fling.....funny how the truth comes out when you constantly lie about things. I didn't even have to go digging for it becuase the truth found me and I had nothing to do with it. I was literally sitting back and living my life that had nothing to do with her and not even having the slightest bit of coorospondance with her at all and all of the truth of what she was doing just came to me without me asking for it. I really don't want to have this conversation on the phone with her at all, but that is all we have.
I will show you the text between us which sparked her to anger. It is important to note that I told right off that bat that maybe we should not later when she has calmed down and she said No No No over and over again and then brought up "It's my way or the highway". I think I probably should have just hung up on her and let her think it through, but I didn't and I stayed on the phone with her. She did calm down, but at first it was very overdone and in a smart ass way, very flippant and almost facetious in her intent. So I came back at her, which probably wasn't the best, but I did it very calmly, with her own medicine and she immediatly says "Oh here we go". As soon as she murmered that then I said the reason I said all of that is that is exactly what you do to me all that time. She then tried to tell that what the meaning of here we go was, that she knew I had a point to make behind it.
Anyway this is he the text between us. It started out because I text her the other night pretty early and only about 5 min after she sent me a text and she never responded until the next morning. She started it out by saying....
W: I did not see your text at all (Which I beleive is a lie because she is constantly on her phone and I know that from experience with her) W: Sorry about that. Good morning. Are you working today?
I didn't repsond because I felt she was lying. Then about an hour later she sends me pics she had taken of me and said she found them on an old hard drive. I didn't respond to that either and then about 3 hours later she sent me another couple text.
W: Maybe you are at work and are almost done? W: Hppe you're having a good day.
I finally decide to respond with what I had been up too about an hour later after that and then I decided to not be passive aggressive and just ignore her, which she hates and I realized I was being..... but honeslty it's not really the case and my silence means much more than that. I'll try to explain it a little later, now back to the text.
ME: I do admit though that when you don't text me back I just think you are talking to someone else, so I just think you're going back to doing what you were before. Right now that's the way I feel about it and I am working on it, but I am being honest.
W: I appreciate your honesty. I am glad you told me that though. Thank you. Sometimes I forget that I have a message. Yesterday I got in and was relaxing and watching the news and had my phone sitting somewhere. Or I get on my computer and forget to look at it. Even now it ttok me a while to get back because I have been driving around.
I beleive that is a load of crap. She always had her phone on her and constantly on it. She is in a single room hotel room right now, so her phone isn't like it's out of ear shot or anything remotely close. It also a reoccuring thing she does, when I call her out on what she is doing or not doing then she comes up with excuses, which never existed before and or always claims she was just about ready to do the things she said she was going to do. Anyway so I responded with...
ME: You didn't address what I said about you talking to someone else. I have also told you that texting isn't a real relationship, considering that is all we have have. That being said if you really wanted to communicate with me you would be calling me, but you continue to only text. If you cared then you will find/make the time to call. I have always answered when you call. I'm not saying to not text me anymore or any less, but I know you talk to others on the phone constantly. This is what I witnessed from you through the years, so it's why I find it hard to think anything different when you tell me that you just didn't see it or you forgot. Forgetting says a lot too. Before, all of this you always answered my text and or called me and now it's not like that at all. I understand the situation, you're on the road, I'm on the road, different time zones and all, but if I matter then you make time to actually talk to me. I'm not asking a lot or even asking, but I'm stating what I personally feel about it. The people that matter, you will always find time to call them. I told you I wanted to see some effort on your part, some real effort. I'm not saying you aren't, because I certainly see some, but to what extent does it matter to you. I also realize that you may feel that I don't want you to call me or bother me. I realize that you can have some reservations about things because you are uncertain exactly what to do or how to act, but I am working on things myself so I understand, but as I say you will find the time for who and what is imprtant to you.
Was my text wrong or over the top on what I said? Give me you're presonal opinion on it please.
As for what my silence really means and how it's not really being passive aggressive in my eyes. My silence means I am more tired than anything. I am tired of fighting and now there is less and less to fight for. I am tired of explaining myself to her and I really don't have or want to have the evergy to explain myself anymore. I have long adapted to the changes of her not being in my life and I am done complaining/fighting for it. I am just moving on and forgetting that I had a marraige with her. I am not giving up, but moving on with dignity and grace. That is more of what I feel and think as far as being silent towards her.
The bottom line is that is my wife wants to stay in my life she will find a way. I did all I could do and then she cheated on me, which is absolutely the worst thing she could have done and she is lying about it too, so I'm just tired of putting effort into this realationship and she is the only one that can help me change that feeling. If she doesn't then I will simply just fade away and out of her life forever and move on to much better things. I honeslty feel that divorce is the very last thing to happen, but I can also think to myself that I can certainly find a better, more stable person than her. There is a difference between someone who wants you and someone that would do anything to keep you.
If you go down the path of recon it will be the hardest thing ever. I struggle not to leave my W and family every day.
You have to leave all judgement at the door. You have to find a way to start those hard talks without being judgemental. She most likely has a lot of shame and guilt and until she feels you are safe, she will say things to pacify you. But once she sees you are safe she will open up and let the hurt out.
You have been hurt no doubt, but it isn't your job to punish her.
My W broke down the other day after some really hard convos. She said she wanted to walk in front a bus. She told me everyday she is dealing with her guilt and shame. I really felt sorry for her. I try my hardest not to judge her or make her feel even more shame and guilt. There's GOD and her own struggle for that.
Has your W told you she wants to be back in the M? If so you are going to have to take the lead on those tough talks. What I will tell your W, if I was you was. "For this M to heal I need the truth from you about why you did what you did. The answers you have been giving me are not enough. In order for us to work on a new M, there has to be truth and transparency, and I feel like you are not providing either." You can also say, Im not here to judge you, I'm here to be your husband. And end with I want this M to work but that won't happen without honesty.
I really like this idea and I will have to bring it up for sure..... I' not sure when, but I will figure it out.
Here's the thing when she starts to tell you the truth, you will know and you have to not condemn or judge her, if you do she will shut off again.
I know my wife isn't being honest because she gets angry and defensive. When I first started talking to her and she was very emotional then at that time I knew she was being honest.
This is going to be the most vulnerable place you will ever be in, for the both of you. Be prepared for the pain on both sides.
That's just it I had already moved on from her wehn all of this came up and when I first heard about it my response to the other man wife was it doesn't surprise me. It is what it is. Now my wife wants to make things work after I decided to move on and the biggest conflict I have is what I have been preaching this whole time and that is with my morals and beliefs and to not go against them. To not make a quick judgment when there is still something I could do to honor those vows and stay true to myself.
I just don't have pain from it and as I have said I care less and less. The way I see it is that only thing that could make me want to work on this more with my wife is if she shows me true committment and tries to regain my trust. Just like when I called her out on lying to me that she isn't talking to anyone at the moment and so she wasn't ignoring me. I found that out to be a straight out lie when looked at her phone records that one time. Then directly after that reveal she suddenly decided to get her own phone line......nothing to hide huh... anyway thanks and I really appreciate your advice because it certainly helps me in my situation.
She has no health insurance right now, but I really want her to get checked out for an STD's. How would I go about bringing that up. I know how I would do it and I would just say it straight out and not sugar coat it at all because why should I.
I don't think there's any need to sugarcoat it. Just straight up tell her it is one of your conditions if and when the two of you recon.
Quote:
At this point I am feeling like I don't want to communicate all that much with her because all I want to do is go back into the things she did because I don't believe she is doing anything to address them and is getting off easy and that is not the impression I want her to have and I believe it will only lead to more problems if she doesn't deal with it and I feel she isn't.
After an A the cheater just wants to sweep it all under the rug and pretend it didn't happen while the cheated-on spouse wants to hear every last detail. The trick is finding middle ground, that usually involves you accepting you won't get every last detail and her accepting that she needs to share more info than she wants to. This is where a good MC can be very helpful.
Regarding her getting off light, unless she has icewater in her veins then she is likely going through a lot of guilt and remorse over her actions. What Joe said about his W is pretty typical of when a WAS finally accepts what they've done, and it might be what your W is going through right now as well.
Could this be the reason she gets so angry and defensive at times, like she did the other night? An attempt to bury it or change her focus away from it.
Originally Posted By: Cali08
What are things that would be happening if my wife is really wanting to reconcile and make things work? So far she isn't impressing me at all with how she is going about it.
The distance is a problem. It's hard for her to show you any actions with that much distance between you. It sounds like she is reaching out to you more and talking more about the future, so those are positive signs that she is being genuine. Going back to what I said earlier though, I think you need to ask her what her plans are after this temp job is over. Again don't lead her, just ask her what her plans are. How she responds will tell you a lot about where her head is.
I understand this and the simplest actions she can show me is an attempt to pick up the phone and call me more often, which is pretty simple thing for her to do and it's exactly what I called her out on last night. She is just talking to me mainly through text and talking about nothing, just simple conversations and what she is up too and what she did for the day.....blah blah blah. No real sustance at all, which is sorely needed right now, as if she can take her time and has all the time in the world to get around to it. If I don't force the issue or bring it up I highly doubt she will. As you said she just wants to sweep it under the rug. I have no clue what her plans are and she doesn't disclose them to me and I don't have the energy to want to ask anymore. It think of her discussing her plans after the temp job is all part of her showing me real effort in trying to make this work. I will have to do just that and ask her what her plans are, but I just feel it's going to get her angry and defensive again honeslty and that is where my energy levels and the care to deal with it for her are almost completely on empty.
So these are the kinds of text messages my wife has been having with me lately.
W: Where are you headed to next
ME: Im going to Colorado
W: Ahhhhhhh, I wish I could come!!!!! That's nice!!! I wish I was in Kansas this time.....but I'll be in St Louis.....it's a 14 hour drive.
ME: Yeah it will be a nice long trip too!!
W: How long?
ME: 1 month. Why do you wish you were in Kansas? What's there?
W: It would be closer...... closer to Colorado.
So seemingly she is talking about us in the future sense, but there has been such a distance between us I don't think she realizes the gravity of what she has really done to our relationship. We are still legally married, but I haven't felt married to her in a long time. The closeness I once had to her is fading and I am just planning things for myself only.
I still don't know what her plans are past March, because she doesn't talk about it and I don't feel like I should have to ask. Then again that might be exactly what she is waiting on from me. When she finally does reveal what her plans are I am sure she will be surprised by my answer because that is the point my things need to be addresses and she isn't going to like it at all. The trust I have for her is gone and she is going to have to reall fight to regain even a small amount of trust from me. I am a very strong beleiver in being a man of my word and my friends and family know this, so trust is a huge thing for me.
Just this morning she text me to have a safe flight. I'm not flying anywhere and I won't be until next week. I just responded with saying "Flight?" "Not me.....". I had just discussed the dates a little earlier with her that I would be home and flying again, so she is either not listening to me and paying attention or she is screwing up and meant to text someone else. Either way I am sure she could feel my distrust in my response back to her. When she responded back with saying she had it mixed up and though it was this weekend and no the next I didn't repsond back for over a couple hours. She responded during that time with "You ran away from your phone?" "I guess so" "I'll call you later then".
I can feel that she knows she is messing up and making mistakes or walking on eggshells when conversing with me. Although, this may have been a completely honest mistake and before I woudln't have thought anything of at all, but I had trust for her back then and I don't now. I did eventually text her back after I took a nap and I didn't speak of anything that I thought she was meaning to text someone else. For one, I honestly think that it was a mistake, but my first reaction to that text was to ask her if she meant to text the other man. Again, cheating on me and losing my trust are the most detrimental things she could have ever done to our relationship and I am still unclear if we have a furture together or not.
One thing is for sure she is lucky that I am even talking to her at all and I am doing my best to see if it could possible work for us again....for better or worse is what I promised, but she broke her vows to me. I kind of have the idea of dating again to see if she will stay in the picture at all or if I will be much happier finding someone who won't break their vows and do the disgusting things she has done. While I have been away for work I am been hit on a number of times while at work, granted I never pursue it at all or even give it any play. I just say thank you to the compliment and go about my way or I even tell them they should ask my wife about the questions they are asking me. It's nice to see that if things don't work between my wife and I that I am still very eligible! lol!
So I finally fond out who it was that messaged the other mans wife in defense of my wife and the adultry she was committing, which I thought at first it was my wifes brother. It was the no good A-hole that physically threatened me on my Facebook page because he disagreed with a political post I shared. All the while texting my wife and trash talking me and calling me racist. At that time my wife claimed to have stopped her friendship with him, which come to find out he was at her house come Christmas day. I confronted my wife on it when she first started contacting me again and she claims he wanted to come see her parents, which is complete rubbish.
I would post would what he said to the OW, but it is extremely vulgar, disgusting, disrespectful and down right nasty. It's really unbeleivable what he said to the OW. The OW thought it was my wifes brother because he called her sister, which is what he was calling to me when he was threatening me too. It's so unbelievable to me how my wife thinks her relationship with him is healthy and or at all right in anyway. She told me again that she isn't talking to him at all and I would never see him, but clearly she lied about it once before. I am going to involve her parents in this one when the time is right because they need to know what kind of man he is because I am quite sure they would be absolutely appauled at what he said and the use of the N word over and over again is disturbing. Yes this dude is black, but that is a word that her mother, father and my wife completely hate and never like to hear it used.
All this stuff just keeps pilling up. More and more things drift my way all the while I am keeping the peice and moving forward with my wife. I want to go about this the right way, but all of this absolutely has to be address to it's fullest. At this point we seem to be getting along great and she is starting to call me more and especially at night when she is lying in bed ready to go to sleep. She text me first thing when she wakes too or at least I get a good morning text usually before I am out of bed. This behavior is a lot like she used to be with me. I know I am not the warmest when it comes to the phone conversations, but I really don't have much to talk about being apart for over a year now. The real conversations we can have are all about this stuff, but I am holding back on that right now to try to help her be more comfortable because sooner or later the real hard conversation is going to have to happen. It's going to be a lot harder for her than it is for me.
At this point I really don't have anything to lose in my opinion. The way I see it is that she will endure anything that comes up and will still fight for our marraige in anyway she possible can until the bitter end because I mean enough to her. Or she will get mad and fight back and we will end this roller coaster. To be me the truth is all right there and is waiting to be revealed.....either way I will come out on top and be in much better position.
My wife was talking to me and asked if I wanted to talk for a little bit on the phone. I told her I was doing laundry right now and packing to for my next trip. I said I will try to call her before 8 since I am meeting up with a friend tonight at that time and it will be late for her afterwards. She then said "May I ask who you are going with". I haven't answered her yet and it's only being 2 min and then she said "I guess you don't want to tell me ok" Then another minute goes by and she says "Or maybe you are thinking I don't have the right to ask......I don't know"
Funny how things have changed! The thing is I am merely meeting up with a buddy of mine who she knows and we are just getting a bite to eat and he needs my help with something. I am not like her, but it seems since she was doing things like this behind my back she probably thinks I am doing it too. I can imagine when she was telling me that she was going out with some friends it was other men and she was lying to me about it I'm sure.
I know I am not on here much at all anymore, but I am still dealing with my wife and what ever it is that we are to each other. I am not sure if I should move this to a different forum to reconcile or not. For one right now we are text texting each other about absolutely nothing of importance. Simple text about our day and such, but nothing about how to move forward in one way or the other and I grow very tired of it. It all feels like a silly game on her part and I feel I get dragged into it at time, but not on purpose and I really try not to let that happen. I am just not sure how to go about things at all with her.
I have straight up told her that I need to see lots of effort from her, but texting shallow texts once a day isn't cutting it in the least. It baffles me that she finds this to be OK, considering everything and what she says she wants to do,which is supposedly move forward with our marriage. I don't trust her at all and it just gets worse with the way she is handling it. I find it hard to believe she is genuine and is really going through remorse and knowing that she screwed up and wants to make things right.
The simple truth is that it doesn't show through her being totally fine with just randomly texting me shallow texts and thinking that this is some kind of real relationship with anyone, let alone her husband. When she is travelling on the road she is more consistent with her communication, all be it very shallow, but when she is home it gets less and less. I last heard from her early Thursday morning and I just got a bullshit text from her a few hours ago. She seems to always have an excuse, with out me asking I might add, of why she hasn't been texting me.
Anyway I this is the shallow text I just got from her
W: How is your weekened? W: I slept until 11 and then was running errands today. I am helping (her friend) set up an office. W: I'm leaving a dinner I had with my mom and (her friend)
So I am here to ask about how to go about responding to her. I am tired of telling her what she is doing wrong in my eyes and so on and so forth. I don't like having to do it and bothers me that I should have too. I told her quite a few times that communication is huge right now and it's all we have, so her completely ignoring me until today annoys the hell out of me. I see very little effort on her part and it makes me want to go right back to no communication at all with her. I don't want to be passive aggressive either.....that's isn't me, but what do I do. I am not the type to whine about things and it bugs me that I feel that's what I have to do. I, of course, am not doing that with her and on that same token she acts like I am always on her case about things......but hello.... does she even remember what the hell she did?
I'm at the point of giving an ultimatum, but the one thing I still have to think about is that we are not divorced yet and I don't want any issues from her at all. In my eyes she should be putting up a ton of effort to talk to me every single day with out question. I am simply not getting that and it makes me what to shut her off more and more. I would honestly put more effort into things too if I saw it coming from her, but it's her responsibility to foster that in my opinion. I have done more than my fair share of doing that before all the [censored] hit the fan and I am done with it. It's her turn to learn how to fight for it if she really wants us to work. I am really tired of her half ass ways.
I am thinking of just going radio silence again with her, but as always I am not trying to do the easiest thing here, which that really is for me anyway, but I really care about doing the right thing. She gets upset that I am always getting onto her and bringing back up how wrong she is for what she did, but I wouldn't do it if I felt I didn't have to constantly remind her. It's not even reminding her of what she did, but the fact that I don't trust her and I need to see lots of effort on her part to try to make things right. I just don't feel she is making it at all, so what do I do? Again it's important to me and my character to do what's right.
You want her to do certain things and be a certain way. But she isn’t. And you can’t make her. There is no tactic that will. If you really need what you state out of her, you need to tell her so else you are done. You can only control what you choose to do. She’s got to make the decision to want to do what you need to move forward. You could only choose what you will do if she doesn’t do what you need.
I don’t know what any of this has to do with your character. What is considered “right”? It depends what’s right for you. If you can keep living like this, then that’s your choice. If you can’t, you can remove yourself from the situation . Neither is right or wrong. It’s what you can live with.
But you can’t make do work she doesn’t want to. You can only remove yourself from the situation if she doesn’t
